37 replies to this topic

[renfr]

I stumbled upon that article :
http://gizmodo.com/5...-9 volt-battery

Basically it says that you can increase significantly your cognitive abilities by putting 2 anodes on each side of your head and linked to a 9V battery which is something pretty easy to do.

The idea has been scientifically proven in that study : http://www.sciencedi...304394012003618
They use a tdcs machine but it seems that you can achieve about the same results with a 9V battery.

So I would like to know if anyone already tried that and what he/she experienced.
I would also like to try that but I don't know where to get anodes and cathodes, anyone knows?

Edited by renfr, 02 August 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Previous studies have claimed that weak transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) induces persisting excitability changes in the human motor cortex that can be more pronounced than cortical modulation induced by transcranial magnetic stimulation, but there are no studies that have evaluated the effects of tDCS on working memory. Our aim was to determine whether anodal transcranial direct current stimulation, which enhances brain cortical excitability and activity, would modify performance in a sequential-letter working memory task when administered to the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC). Fifteen subjects underwent a three-back working memory task based on letters. This task was performed during sham and anodal stimulation applied over the left DLPFC. Moreover seven of these subjects performed the same task, but with inverse polarity (cathodal stimulation of the left DLPFC) and anodal stimulation of the primary motor cortex (M1). Our results indicate that only anodal stimulation of the left prefrontal cortex, but not cathodal stimulation of left DLPFC or anodal stimulation of M1, increases the accuracy of the task performance when compared to sham stimulation of the same area. This accuracy enhancement during active stimulation cannot be accounted for by slowed responses, as response times were not changed by stimulation. Our results indicate that left prefrontal anodal stimulation leads to an enhancement of working memory performance. Furthermore, this effect depends on the stimulation polarity and is specific to the site of stimulation. This result may be helpful to develop future interventions aiming at clinical benefits.

http://www.springerl...72151224561868/

Edited by Turnbuckle, 02 August 2012 - 05:56 PM.

[middpanther88]

So interested.

[mbasile]

http://www.scoop.it/...science-channel

You're welcome

[Kahnetic]

http://flowstateengaged.com are working on an affordable, consumer TDCS device.

I am very, very interested. I'm considering combining the technology with meditation practice, to augment the natural neurogenesis induced by meditation. I wonder if there is a point where too much stimulation is detrimental?

[mbasile]

go flow ran into some problems with the FDA. They will not be launching their product for a while.

The electric current itself can't cause brain damage, it's too small. Nonetheless, If you don't know what you're doing, it could be dangerous. Many people have burned themselves and they have the scars to prove it. Also, it's extremely difficult to pinpoint exactly where to place the anodes and cathodes and you have to be careful not to mix them up.

[Kahnetic]

go flow ran into some problems with the FDA. They will not be launching their product for a while.

Gah, that's frustrating. Hopefully the delay results in a better product though.

[renfr]

http://flowstateengaged.com are working on an affordable, consumer TDCS device.

I am very, very interested. I'm considering combining the technology with meditation practice, to augment the natural neurogenesis induced by meditation. I wonder if there is a point where too much stimulation is detrimental?

Great project! It seems to be quite recent, I hope they release the product by 2013.

go flow ran into some problems with the FDA. They will not be launching their product for a while.

The electric current itself can't cause brain damage, it's too small. Nonetheless, If you don't know what you're doing, it could be dangerous. Many people have burned themselves and they have the scars to prove it. Also, it's extremely difficult to pinpoint exactly where to place the anodes and cathodes and you have to be careful not to mix them up.

Well yes, I wonder what happens if you invert anode and cathode, the electrical current would be negative right? will it kill your neurons or what?

I'd really like to try this at home but I don't have any of that electrical stuff to put on your head.

[Logic]

Anode is just another word for positive wire. Cathode = negative wire.
This is VERY easy to make.
Those round plasters should work for sticking the 2 wires to ones head. A rop of water on the pad in the center will increase conductivity.

The question is the resistor in series in the circuit and positioning:
What volts/amps are we looking at and where exactly should they be stuck for different effects??

[mbasile]

http://www.trans-cranial.com/manuals

Read the manuals, they're helpful. However, I wouldn't recommend purchasing from them. They're ridiculously overpriced and in any event, the tdcs device is backordered over 8 weeks.

[Rior]

http://www.trans-cranial.com/manuals

Read the manuals, they're helpful. However, I wouldn't recommend purchasing from them. They're ridiculously overpriced and in any event, the tdcs device is backordered over 8 weeks.

It says on that website that their tDCS stimulation kit is only $380 in comparison to the ~$600 price for an alpha-stim (which seems substantially lesser in capability. On that note, would someone like to explain why tDCS is substantially better than the CES used by alpha-stim? Or if it even is better?)

I'd pay $380 for a tDCS stimulator if it were legitimate. Also, they say they have them in-stock--hopefully not backordered then?

[Rior]

Just yesterday got an Alpha-Stim SCS and after an hour of use can already notice a lasting reduction in anxiety. It feels like the cob webs have been pushed away a bit. Pretty incredible really, I'm surprised this isn't used/prescribed more considering how great its been noted to be. Will update with more use

[Logic]

$380 for a 9V battery, a variable resistor, an amp-meter, 2 pieces of sponge and some wire!?
No Way!

[middpanther88]

Ya, I don't understand how they're so expensive.

[renfr]

Well it's prescribed stuff so the market is quite small, I don't understand why it is prescription only. The only harm it could cause is maybe with epileptics I guess dunno...
If there's an easy way to make yourself the same kind of stuff at home I would go for it unless a company launches a cheap stimulator. I can see that Flow State Engaged is very recent (2012) but until the stuff shows up on the market I guess it'll take a while overall that it needs several approvals including the fearful FDA approval.
It will probably take a long time until we can see that OTC, just buy a stimulator and your anxiety is gone forever, that would screw big pharma and they know it and they will do anything to keep that market with benzos and killer bullshit.

[Logic]

...If there's an easy way to make yourself the same kind of stuff at home I would go for it...

There is and its easy!
Battery, variable resistor, amp-meter and some wire and sponge all in a simple series circuit.
Perhaps I should look into making some for people here?
Or I could just do a how to with build plans?

Edited by Logic, 05 August 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[renfr]

If that works, is correctly made and affordable I would buy one for sure, I wouldn't like to mess with electric stuff myself and then screw it all as I have no knowledge of it.
That stuff seems to be easy to make but hell I need a supplier of electrodes, is there any on the web? there must be!
crocodile clips can be linked to a 9V battery right?

Edit : I found those electrodes http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/B000Y9PERQ
there's probably cheaper somewhere else but how the hell do you link them to the battery? that's what I don't understand, I'm not sure the wire can be linked somewhere.

Edited by renfr, 05 August 2012 - 10:27 PM.

[middpanther88]

I wish I could chime in more here, but I'm very bad at understanding how to put things together and don't know anything about electricity.

[Reformed-Redan]

...If there's an easy way to make yourself the same kind of stuff at home I would go for it...

There is and its easy!
Battery, variable resistor, amp-meter and some wire and sponge all in a simple series circuit.
Perhaps I should look into making some for people here?
Or I could just do a how to with build plans?

That'd be really nice. Could you check if all the needed parts are on amazon. You could list them and try to put them together.

[Logic]

That'd be really nice. Could you check if all the needed parts are on amazon. You could list them and try to put them together.

Ok; ill put together a how-to.
I'm in South Africa but will use Radioshack's catalogue for parts.
If you know someone who has a soldering iron and basic tools they should be able to build it for you, or any electrics place.

Is everyone interested in a battery powered model or a mains powered model with a transformer that takes voltage down to 9 volts?

[Hebbeh]

That'd be really nice. Could you check if all the needed parts are on amazon. You could list them and try to put them together.

Ok; ill put together a how-to.
I'm in South Africa but will use Radioshack's catalogue for parts.
If you know someone who has a soldering iron and basic tools they should be able to build it for you, or any electrics place.

Is everyone interested in a battery powered model or a mains powered model with a transformer that takes voltage down to 9 volts?

All you need is a battery....I hope nobody here is on death row...

[mbasile]

This is the main forum on the internet for tDCS. I have posted a direct link to the schematics:

http://www.reddit.co...diy_tdcs_howto/

[middpanther88]

Also saw that there was a previous thread on specifically using a 9V battery too. Might be helpful.

[Logic]

9 volts DC is 9 Volts DC whether it comes from a transformer (like a cellphone charger) or a battery.
The difference is that with a battery; you will need to buy new batteries or recharge them. (with a 9 volt DC transformer!)
It will however be more portable with a battery.

[Logic]

This is the main forum on the internet for tDCS. I have posted a direct link to the schematics:

http://www.reddit.co...diy_tdcs_howto/

Thx Mbasile.
I couldnt do a better guide than this one.
As the battery lasts about 50 hours; there's no need to worry people with a transformer.

[Hebbeh]

9 volts DC is 9 Volts DC whether it comes from a transformer (like a cellphone charger) or a battery.
The difference is that with a battery; you will need to buy new batteries or recharge them. (with a 9 volt DC transformer!)
It will however be more portable with a battery.

With an AC transformer, you're going to need a full wave rectifier to produce the 9VDC or else it's just 9 VAC and I don't think the AC Current is going to have the same positive effect...hence my 'death row' joke. ;-)

[Logic]

With an AC transformer, you're going to need a full wave rectifier to produce the 9VDC or else it's just 9 VAC and I don't think the AC Current is going to have the same positive effect...hence my 'death row' joke. ;-)

True.
I didnt want to get too technical with rectifiers and caps, inductors and batteries to smooth out flow.
AC certainly would not have the same effect!

[Psionic]

With an AC transformer, you're going to need a full wave rectifier to produce the 9VDC or else it's just 9 VAC and I don't think the AC Current is going to have the same positive effect...hence my 'death row' joke. ;-)

True.
I didnt want to get too technical with rectifiers and caps, inductors and batteries to smooth out flow.
AC certainly would not have the same effect!

Isn´t possible to find a way to recharge this device directly from USB? Use some kind of battery which will fit into its requirements? (Accidentally it can really lead to mass expansion , btw arent we talking about the same utility: http://www.longecity...76-tdcs-thread/ ?)

[Rior]

After of using the Alpha-Stim SCS for a few days now, I must say that it has given the most profound general reduction in anxiety that I've felt from anything. It just brings a focused, anxiety-free mentality to life. I'm looking forward to continuing use, as it's quite amazing. After having a concussion leave me with pretty bad post-concussive syndrome, I feel much closer to being a normal human being again after using this.

[stillwater]

This has risen to the top of things I want to try.

I have absolutely no knowledge of electricity/electronics, but would this unit work at all? (cheap) modifiable? too powerful? wrong voltage/amps? I don't have a clue.


http://www.a3bs.com/..._915_15705.html