14 replies to this topic

[Gnumf]

hi

i used to take ritalin in a non conventional way but i decided to stop. (just didn't felt right...)
Do you think that drinking ritalin podwer can shorten the absorption time? and maybe give a different effect? (because the pill has to be digested)
i think it does but maybe it's just placebo.

thanks for your comments

ps: no need to tell me that i am an idiot .  Plz be critical but in a constructive way.

[protoject]

depends if it's a slow release brand or immediate release. I don't see why if it were immediate release that you'd really be absorbing it that much faster if it were crushed first. The pill is going to dissolve pretty fast anyhow as far as I know.

[Gnumf]

actually it's more about the potential different effect that i am interested in.
i know that i get a very different effect between the pill and the unconventional way.
the pill increase my heart rate and anxiety when the other way give me confidence and clarity. (maybe again placebo)
my theory was that the pill has to be digested (metabolized ?) and so it changes the properties of the drug.
Maybe drinking ritalin podwer is closer to the "stupid way" in term of effects.

[RS3RS]

To clarify, you're talking about oral administration in both cases? Taking the pill whole vs. crushing it up and swollowing it as a powder? If that's the case, it really shouldn't make a difference for instant release pills. If you're talking about extended release methylphenidate, then it will absolutely create a different effect. If you're talking about consuming the crushed up powder through a different route (insufflation or sublingual), that would also make a difference in onset and bioavailability.

Please clarify, if you can. I understand there's a language barrier here, and we may not be fully understanding your question.

[Hebbeh]

Or are you snorting the powder?

[Gnumf]

"Taking the pill whole vs. crushing it up and swollowing it as a powder? If that's the case, it really shouldn't make a difference for instant release pills"
that answer my question but i am not convinced

What i don't understand is the DIFFERENT effect from insufflation (that i don't do anymore or recommend). Not just different in onset and bioavailability, but different effect on mood (anxiety vs confidence). So i was thinking that swallowing it as a powder could give me an effect between the insufflation and the pill.

Edited by Gnumf, 04 August 2012 - 06:08 PM.

[Hebbeh]

Snorting does 3 things:

1) Achieves much higher blood levels from a given quantity in a much quicker (seconds) time frame as compared to oral due to faster absorption directly into blood circulation. And this blood circulation from the sinus's delivers the higher blood levels directly to the brain...also bypassing BBB. This would correspond to a much higher oral dose. The higher blood levels developed will have a stronger activation of receptors. Think over dose.

2) Bypasses first pass liver metabolism which will also not only increase blood levels will also have an effect on metabolites and corresponding effects on receptors.

3) Bypasses Blood Brain Barrier...unlike oral.

[RS3RS]

Hebbeh, on 04 August 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

Snorting does 3 things:

1) Achieves much higher blood levels from a given quantity in a much quicker (seconds) time frame as compared to oral due to faster absorption directly into blood circulation. And this blood circulation from the sinus's delivers the higher blood levels directly to the brain...also bypassing BBB. This would correspond to a much higher oral dose. The higher blood levels developed will have a stronger activation of receptors. Think over dose.

2) Bypasses first pass liver metabolism which will also not only increase blood levels will also have an effect on metabolites and corresponding effects on receptors.

3) Bypasses Blood Brain Barrier...unlike oral.

There you go. That's why snorting it feels different and creates different effects. Swollowing it as a pill or crushed into a powder won't make a difference.

[Gnumf]

Hebbeh, on 04 August 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

Snorting does 3 things:

1) Achieves much higher blood levels from a given quantity in a much quicker (seconds) time frame as compared to oral due to faster absorption directly into blood circulation. And this blood circulation from the sinus's delivers the higher blood levels directly to the brain...also bypassing BBB. This would correspond to a much higher oral dose. The higher blood levels developed will have a stronger activation of receptors. Think over dose.

2) Bypasses first pass liver metabolism which will also not only increase blood levels will also have an effect on metabolites and corresponding effects on receptors.

3) Bypasses Blood Brain Barrier...unlike oral.

"And this blood circulation from the sinus's" :  does it not go through the lungs, like when you smoke?


by the way how long is the effect of ritalin lp compared to fast released? 8h vs 3-4h?

[Hebbeh]

Gnumf, on 05 August 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

Hebbeh, on 04 August 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

Snorting does 3 things:

1) Achieves much higher blood levels from a given quantity in a much quicker (seconds) time frame as compared to oral due to faster absorption directly into blood circulation. And this blood circulation from the sinus's delivers the higher blood levels directly to the brain...also bypassing BBB. This would correspond to a much higher oral dose. The higher blood levels developed will have a stronger activation of receptors. Think over dose.

2) Bypasses first pass liver metabolism which will also not only increase blood levels will also have an effect on metabolites and corresponding effects on receptors.

3) Bypasses Blood Brain Barrier...unlike oral.

"And this blood circulation from the sinus's" :  does it not go through the lungs, like when you smoke?


by the way how long is the effect of ritalin lp compared to fast released? 8h vs 3-4h?

Of course, all blood will eventually circulate through the lungs and heart...and eventually the liver where enzymatic breakdown and elimination of drugs will occur. But oral ingestion will go through the liver first pass and be metabolized before reaching general circulation...unlike snorting...or smoking...or sublingual....which all avoid liver first pass. I believe snorting is the only method that bypasses the BBB though. And I've never used Ritalin so can't advise on half-lives of the different formulas.

[Gnumf]

Hebbeh, on 05 August 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

Gnumf, on 05 August 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

Hebbeh, on 04 August 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

Snorting does 3 things:

1) Achieves much higher blood levels from a given quantity in a much quicker (seconds) time frame as compared to oral due to faster absorption directly into blood circulation. And this blood circulation from the sinus's delivers the higher blood levels directly to the brain...also bypassing BBB. This would correspond to a much higher oral dose. The higher blood levels developed will have a stronger activation of receptors. Think over dose.

2) Bypasses first pass liver metabolism which will also not only increase blood levels will also have an effect on metabolites and corresponding effects on receptors.

3) Bypasses Blood Brain Barrier...unlike oral.

"And this blood circulation from the sinus's" :  does it not go through the lungs, like when you smoke?


by the way how long is the effect of ritalin lp compared to fast released? 8h vs 3-4h?

Of course, all blood will eventually circulate through the lungs and heart...and eventually the liver where enzymatic breakdown and elimination of drugs will occur. But oral ingestion will go through the liver first pass and be metabolized before reaching general circulation...unlike snorting...or smoking...or sublingual....which all avoid liver first pass. I believe snorting is the only method that bypasses the BBB though. And I've never used Ritalin so can't advise on half-lives of the different formulas.

but when you snort something, the product mostly get in the blood in the lungs, no? I understand that some may get into the blood at the sinus level, but not the majority of it. So then it has to cross the blood barrier.

for instance let's imagine that i inhale vapor from my mouth or nose, the result is the same no? (it goes into the blood at lungs level)

[RS3RS]

Gnumf, on 05 August 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Hebbeh, on 05 August 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

Gnumf, on 05 August 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

Hebbeh, on 04 August 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

Snorting does 3 things:

1) Achieves much higher blood levels from a given quantity in a much quicker (seconds) time frame as compared to oral due to faster absorption directly into blood circulation. And this blood circulation from the sinus's delivers the higher blood levels directly to the brain...also bypassing BBB. This would correspond to a much higher oral dose. The higher blood levels developed will have a stronger activation of receptors. Think over dose.

2) Bypasses first pass liver metabolism which will also not only increase blood levels will also have an effect on metabolites and corresponding effects on receptors.

3) Bypasses Blood Brain Barrier...unlike oral.

"And this blood circulation from the sinus's" :  does it not go through the lungs, like when you smoke?


by the way how long is the effect of ritalin lp compared to fast released? 8h vs 3-4h?

Of course, all blood will eventually circulate through the lungs and heart...and eventually the liver where enzymatic breakdown and elimination of drugs will occur. But oral ingestion will go through the liver first pass and be metabolized before reaching general circulation...unlike snorting...or smoking...or sublingual....which all avoid liver first pass. I believe snorting is the only method that bypasses the BBB though. And I've never used Ritalin so can't advise on half-lives of the different formulas.

but when you snort something, the product mostly get in the blood in the lungs, no? I understand that some may get into the blood at the sinus level, but not the majority of it. So then it has to cross the blood barrier.

for instance let's imagine that i inhale vapor from my mouth or nose, the result is the same no? (it goes into the blood at lungs level)

Inhaling vapor into the lungs is much different than snorting a powder into your nose. Insuffulated powders enter the sinus cavity and are absorbed in that manner.

Quote

Nasal insufflation (snorting) is commonly used for many psychoactive drugs because it causes a much faster onset than orally and bioavailability is usually, but not always, higher than orally. This bioavailability occurs due to the quick absorption of molecules into the bloodstream through the soft tissue in the mucous membrane of the sinus cavity.

With all due respect, these are very basic concepts. I would highly suggest doing some research on these subjects before asking for advice, and then taking an argumentative stance based on your unresearched preconceived notions about pharmacology.

[Gnumf]

well actually i didn't think that i was right, and i was not making an argumentative stance

i can tell you i read several times on this forum that there is no difference in term of effects on receptor between snorting and taking a pill.

anyway thank you for your time

[FDA Approved]

Gnumf, on 05 August 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

i can tell you i read several times on this forum that there is no difference in term of effects on receptor between snorting and taking a pill.

This seems a bit unlikely as most people know that there is a significant difference between the two (as already stated in this thread).
I also wanted to add that in order for snorting to be efective the drug needs to be water soluble (like ritalin) and also that you might be better off if you use the sublingual route instead of insufflation as the effects are quite similiar, but sublingual is safer.

[Gnumf]

FDA Approved, on 05 August 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Gnumf, on 05 August 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

i can tell you i read several times on this forum that there is no difference in term of effects on receptor between snorting and taking a pill.

This seems a bit unlikely as most people know that there is a significant difference between the two (as already stated in this thread).
I also wanted to add that in order for snorting to be efective the drug needs to be water soluble (like ritalin) and also that you might be better off if you use the sublingual route instead of insufflation as the effects are quite similiar, but sublingual is safer.

thanks, i will try sublingual.
i don't use insufflation anymore, (and i used very small doses before). It just doesn't feel right and it's obviously not a long term solution.

i guess a nootropic as to be water soluble to use sublingual. Oxiracetam could be more efficient that way?
any other nootropic you would recommand to take sublingually?