40 replies to this topic

[Usame]

Hello,

I want to ask the experts or people that know the difference between good and bad multivitamin. I am searching for the best possible multivitamin.
This one lookes good in my eyes:

http://www.vitaminec...tiket_multi.png

What do you guys thinks ??
which one is the best

I know it's missing magnesium and calcium but i have many other good adds.

Thanks for the help.

[TheMindofRobert]

I haven't tried them yet but the next Multivitamins I'm buying are MyoVite by Myogenix. I'm real excited about the blend. Covers a lot of different areas. I just wish it included Omega 3.

[maxwatt]

Both of the above suggested multivites are far less than ideal by longecity standards on a number of counts:

• Excessive amounts of most vitamins
• Wrong form of certain vitamins for bioavailability
• Some essentials are possibly missing

You would have to have a diet devoid of all nutrients to require the multi-rda present in these pills, even for athletes who might need a bit more than the average person. The D2 levels are low, even though meeting the rda; the optimum amount may be closer to 1000 units rather than 400.

There was an extensive discussion of these issues here http://www.longecity.../365-vimmortal/ where longecity members attempted to design an ideal vitamin, with partial success.

Possibly an every-other-day use of a 100% RDA vitamin, such as even Centrum (gasp0 would be adequate, if supplemented by 5-MTHF form of folate for those with the genetic trait of being unable to use folic acid, and D2 for those in northern climates (blood tests for 25-hydroxy D to determine ideal dose), and K2 as MK-7 for those concerned with arteriosclerosis, or Mk-4 if concerned with osteoporosis. You need to tailor your regimen to your specific needs, but megadoses are not helpful for most, and can even be counterproductive.

[hivemind]

http://www.iherb.com...Caps/33054?at=0

[TheMindofRobert]

Hey thanx for the info Hivemind!
But you kinda hit the nail on the head for my situation. Because of my lifestyle, work schedule and sleeping patterns my diet is way less then ideal That's a big reason why I'm looking at the "mega dosing" multi-vitamins.
By the by, the MyoVite's serving size fact sheet is for 2 packs a day. I was only planning on taking one a day.

[hivemind]

Mega dosing is pretty useless, except for B12.

[Usame]

Both of the above suggested multivites are far less than ideal by longecity standards on a number of counts:

• Excessive amounts of most vitamins
• Wrong form of certain vitamins for bioavailability
• Some essentials are possibly missing

You would have to have a diet devoid of all nutrients to require the multi-rda present in these pills, even for athletes who might need a bit more than the average person. The D2 levels are low, even though meeting the rda; the optimum amount may be closer to 1000 units rather than 400.

There was an extensive discussion of these issues here http://www.longecity.../365-vimmortal/ where longecity members attempted to design an ideal vitamin, with partial success.

Possibly an every-other-day use of a 100% RDA vitamin, such as even Centrum (gasp0 would be adequate, if supplemented by 5-MTHF form of folate for those with the genetic trait of being unable to use folic acid, and D2 for those in northern climates (blood tests for 25-hydroxy D to determine ideal dose), and K2 as MK-7 for those concerned with arteriosclerosis, or Mk-4 if concerned with osteoporosis. You need to tailor your regimen to your specific needs, but megadoses are not helpful for most, and can even be counterproductive.

There is a difference between what you daily need to don't get sick and between optimal dosage.

I am really interested in the multivitamin what you think it's the best.
Because there don't excist any multivitamin with perfect bioavailability for all vitamins and minerals.

What do you think about this one? http://www.plantina....S-Multi_Web.pdf

D3 is at 1000IU per tablet but they forgot to change it on the website.
Thanks for the reply.

[TheMindofRobert]

I'm curious, though. What about w/ other supplements. I mean I know that extra vitamins will just be flushed ... but what about the other supplements? The Resveratrol, Ashwagandha, MSM, Enzymes, Beta-Alanine, etc. etc. I mean I'm not just looking into a product like MyoVite just for vitamins.

[cowcow7]

Personally, I like Orange Triad, its a pretty good mix of just about everything you could ever need in a multi. A bit pricey and you have to take a lot of pills, but it works. Centrum is great too.

[nameless]

Cron-o-meter is probably your best option, and then just supplement whatever you are deficient in.

As for multivitamins... they all seem to have one problem or another. AOR MultiBasics at a partial dose may be the best of a bad bunch.

Potential issues for most multis (not counting excessive doses + less than optimal forms + no K2, no mixed Es) -- folic acid and choline.

Too much folic acid = potential cancer risk.
Choline = potential CVD risk.

The majority of multis out there don't use 5-MTHF, which isn't necessarily guaranteed to be safe either, although it should be safer than folic acid. And even something like Vimmortal here was loaded down with a high dose of choline.

Another option if going the multi route is to hunt down a decent children's vitamin. At the least, doses should be sane. Unfortunately most of them contain iron or have some other fault.

Edited by nameless, 20 November 2012 - 12:07 AM.

[PWAIN]

I'm curious, though. What about w/ other supplements. I mean I know that extra vitamins will just be flushed ... but what about the other supplements? The Resveratrol, Ashwagandha, MSM, Enzymes, Beta-Alanine, etc. etc. I mean I'm not just looking into a product like MyoVite just for vitamins.

If you're looking for the extras, you can try:

http://www.iherb.com...-Capsules/33670

I personally take AOR Multi basics (the one linked to above by Hivemind). It takes a while to get your head around the idea that less is more but just think of all the negative lifespan results with multis. My guess is that the dose in these is too high and causing more failure than improvement.

Taking a partial dose of a high dose multi might work but then you also get low dose on some things you need a bit more of like Vit D.

I have actually felt the difference of taking Multi Basics versus other high dose multis and that is very unusual for me and was something of a surprise. I was expecting the opposite.

The forum developed multi (Vimmortal) was pretty cool too but stocks ran out and a new version seems to be on hold for some reason at the moment. If it ever gets out, I'll switch to that.

Edited by PWAIN, 20 November 2012 - 01:36 AM.

[PWAIN]

Just as an aside, I notice they have dropped Sulforaphane from Ortho Core, anyone know why? Sulforaphane seems to have fallen out of favour lately, is there any issue that has come up with it that I may have missed?

[Usame]

Interesting... I heard that this one is better then aor ortho-core. What do you guys think.
It says that it uses the best ingredients from the world. All ingredients are in perfect bioavailability.
http://www.wellnessr...aily_energy.php

Thanks for any reply.

[maxwatt]

that one's an overdose. multibasics isn't too bad. but have to supplement and take only one cap, a partial dose. disappointed the folate is folic acid and not 5=mth-folate. vanadium probably not helpful. and so on

[hivemind]

that one's an overdose. multibasics isn't too bad. but have to supplement and take only one cap, a partial dose. disappointed the folate is folic acid and not 5=mth-folate. vanadium probably not helpful. and so on

Multi Basics 3 has 5-methyltetrahydrofolate not folic acid.

http://www.aor.ca/ht...ucts.php?id=142

[maxwatt]

that one's an overdose. multibasics isn't too bad. but have to supplement and take only one cap, a partial dose. disappointed the folate is folic acid and not 5=mth-folate. vanadium probably not helpful. and so on

Multi Basics 3 has 5-methyltetrahydrofolate not folic acid.

http://www.aor.ca/ht...ucts.php?id=142

I was referring to the previous poster's query on the link to a Wellness brand multi; AOR isn't too bad, a single pill, 1/3 of a dose, would work fairly well though there are still some issues. E.G, my diet falls short on choline by 200 mg as determined using Cron-o-meter, so I'd still need to supplement. It has the right form of folate, but I'd still need to supplement because it takes 3 pills to get 800 mcg that I want, but doing that I get three times as much or more of the B vitamins that I need..... And whe=y are B1 and B2 in approximately a 3:1 ratio, when most supplements and the RDA have them at about one to one? A few others do this, LEF for one, but I'd like to know the rational.

[Guardian4981]

I like Thorn Research,

http://www.iherb.com...ggie-Caps/18121

AORs multi is better for minerals and fat soluble vitamins, Thorns multi is better for B vitamins. If you took the best of each, that would probably be the best multi.

[hivemind]

I like Thorn Research,

http://www.iherb.com...ggie-Caps/18121

AORs multi is better for minerals and fat soluble vitamins, Thorns multi is better for B vitamins. If you took the best of each, that would probably be the best multi.

AOR is much better for E-vitamin.

What is wrong with AOR's B vitamins? Thorne has too little B12, so I think AOR has better B-vitamins.

Edited by hivemind, 26 November 2012 - 04:01 AM.

[MasterDavid]

The BEST vitamin ever is Dr. Mercola multivitamin:
http://media.mercola...el-v704-WEB.pdf

... probably made Douglas Labs.

D3... 5.000 UI
B vitamins just 200 % of RDA, except B12, Folic Acid as Metafolin L-meth 100 %.

Magnezium, Zinc, Selenium in in the right quantities.

[MrXIII]

Hello guys,

What do you think of these 2 multi vitamins:

- SportPharma Multi V

and

- Multi Vitamin+ Energy Champion


Thank you !

[timar]

Mega dosing is pretty useless, except for B12.

Not true. It may be useful for most B-vitamins.

I find it funny how irrationally opposed people here are against what they consider "overdoses" of B-vitamins. First, there is no evidence at all that B vitamins in sub-100mg doses cause any adverse effects whatsoever - except for folate, which, for this very reason, is always contained in RDAish amounts in formulas. Second, there is a host of known and yet unknown genetic mutations which cause an decrease in some enzymes' binding affinity to coenzymes and which in many cases can be by treated by the intake of the corresponding B-vitamin in doses 10 to 100 times the RDA. Now consider that there may be many relatively mild cases of enzyme-insufficiency caused by genetically decreased binding affinity, which cause vague and subclinical symptoms only (or long term-consequences showing up with an advanced age) and won't ever be diagnosed: such mutations would equal to a chronic functional deficiency of the according B-vitamin(s) despite optimal intake and blood levels. We don't know how common such enzyme insufficiencies are, but if there's a chance that you may have one, and it may be alleviated by the intake of an abundance of B-vitamins, which are dirt-cheap and non-toxic - wouldn't it be rational to go that route, just to be on the safe side?

For more details please read this brilliant paper by Bruce Ames et al.: http://ajcn.nutritio...t/75/4/616.full

Edited by timar, 22 August 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[blood]

I used to take Thorne's Children's Basic Nutrients, then for a while Thorne's Basic Nutrients without Copper & Iron (@ 1/3 the dose on the label).

I don't feel comfortable with the daily dose of manganese in those products.

Recently, I've given up on finding a decent multi and instead use Swansons' "Activated B Complex High Bio-availability"** as a base. It's inexpensive, and has modest doses of B vitamins including 400 mcg folate as 5-MTHF. Separately, I take magnesium, chromium (picolinate), selenium, lithium (orotate), zinc (picolinate) and boron in low to moderate doses. I also take some fat soluble nutrients separately - carotenes, tocotrienols, K2, and D. This gives me more control over doses, I can take zinc and lithium 2 or 3 times/ week, magnesium & chromium twice daily.

**has small amounts of choline and benfotiamine... which might put some folks off.
http://www.swansonvi...U533&csp=SWU815

[Guardian4981]

Mega dosing is pretty useless, except for B12.

Not true. It may be useful for most B-vitamins.

I find it funny how irrationally opposed people here are against what they consider "overdoses" of B-vitamins. First, there is no evidence at all that B vitamins in sub-100mg doses cause any adverse effects whatsoever - except for folate, which, for this very reason, is always contained in RDAish amounts in formulas. Second, there is a host of known and yet unknown genetic mutations which cause an decrease in some enzymes' binding affinity to coenzymes and which in many cases can be by treated by the intake of the corresponding B-vitamin in doses 10 to 100 times the RDA. Now consider that there may be many relatively mild cases of enzyme-insufficiency caused by genetically decreased binding affinity, which cause vague and subclinical symptoms only (or long term-consequences showing up with an advanced age) and won't ever be diagnosed: such mutations would equal to a chronic functional deficiency of the according B-vitamin(s) despite optimal intake and blood levels. We don't know how common such enzyme insufficiencies are, but if there's a chance that you may have one, and it may be alleviated by the intake of an abundance of B-vitamins, which are dirt-cheap and non-toxic - wouldn't it be rational to go that route, just to be on the safe side?

For more details please read this brilliant paper by Bruce Ames et al.: http://ajcn.nutritio...t/75/4/616.full

Wouldn't the better approach be to take the converted forms such as 5-MTHF and hydroxycobalim rather then huge doses of all them?

That is like saying a fruit at the store is so lousy you should eat 10 times as many, wouldn't it be better to just buy better fruit?

[timar]

Wouldn't the better approach be to take the converted forms such as 5-MTHF and hydroxycobalim rather then huge doses of all them?

Of course. If you know your exact deficency/insufficency and what coenzymes you need to compensate for it - which is only the case if you have a clinical diagnosis (maybe in twenty or thirty years, when gene test services like 23andMe will be much more advanced, they will deliver some information about that). As a general "enzyme safety net", you want to take ample amounts of the non-coenzyme forms because, 1) some b-vitamins are made into several coenzymes and you would have to take all of them, and 2) the body is well adapted to flush out excess amounts of B-vitamins in their dietary forms, which accounts for their non-toxicity. This isn't necesarrily the case for the "activated" conenzyme forms which therefore may have side-effects the B-vitamins don't have.

That is like saying a fruit at the store is so lousy you should eat 10 times as many, wouldn't it be better to just buy better fruit?

That is only possible, however, if you know exactly which fruit is lousy and which one would be better to eat instead, which in this case you just can't (at least not within the next few decades).

Edited by timar, 22 August 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[formergenius]

What do you guys think of this one I purchased the other day?: Source of Life Gold (PDF of label)
Though upon receiving it it had a sticker "Warning: contains lead." Great.

[Guardian4981]

Wouldn't the better approach be to take the converted forms such as 5-MTHF and hydroxycobalim rather then huge doses of all them?

Of course. If you know your exact deficency/insufficency and what coenzymes you need to compensate for it - which is only the case if you have a clinical diagnosis (maybe in twenty or thirty years, when gene test services like 23andMe will be much more advanced, they will deliver some information about that). As a general "enzyme safety net", you want to take ample amounts of the non-coenzyme forms because, 1) some b-vitamins are made into several coenzymes and you would have to take all of them, and 2) the body is well adapted to flush out excess amounts of B-vitamins in their dietary forms, which accounts for their non-toxicity. This isn't necesarrily the case for the "activated" conenzyme forms which therefore may have side-effects the B-vitamins don't have.

That is like saying a fruit at the store is so lousy you should eat 10 times as many, wouldn't it be better to just buy better fruit?

That is only possible, however, if you know exactly which fruit is lousy and which one would be better to eat instead, which in this case you just can't (at least not within the next few decades).

Its not that difficult, there is not hundreds of B vitamins. One can easily test how they feel, for example if I use pyrodoxine I feel numbness in my limbs, if I take p-5-p I feel a boost of energy and mood, so I benefit from P-5-P.

[timar]

Its not that difficult, there is not hundreds of B vitamins. One can easily test how they feel, for example if I use pyrodoxine I feel numbness in my limbs, if I take p-5-p I feel a boost of energy and mood, so I benefit from P-5-P.

Of course you can experiment with different forms, but chances are that you end up comparing two different different placebo responses. Also, there may be insufficencies which don't cause any symptoms at all but show up with an advanced age as an increased risk for cancer, heart attack, etc.

[KieranA001]

The best vitamins I've seen on the market are these:

http://www.xtend-lif...ngredients.aspx

[theconomist]

The best vitamins I've seen on the market are these:

http://www.xtend-lif...ngredients.aspx

some issues

Taking 5,000 ui of vitamin d is not optimal for everyone.
vitamin e alpha topocerol
folic acid

[KieranA001]

The best vitamins I've seen on the market are these:

http://www.xtend-lif...ngredients.aspx

some issues

Taking 5,000 ui of vitamin d is not optimal for everyone.
vitamin e alpha topocerol
folic acid

It isn't 5,000 IU of vitamin D, it's 500 IU which is the equivalent to 12.5 mcg and the RDA is 10mcg. I don't think the extra 2.5mcg will make a difference.

Vitamin E is a little over the top though. But, it should be fine if you space the time out between taking the vitamin supplements.

Folic acid is fine, it isn't over the RDA.

If you can be more specific as to why these were selected I would be grateful.

Thanks :-)