13 replies to this topic

[xeon]

I recently purchased some Bacopa, but I want to be sure of the effects it has before taking it. On another thread, here, user Kevinseven11 posted the following study:

In conclusion, this study has demonstrated that b n-butanol extract of BM possess antinociceptive activity, mediated through opioidergic mechanism. Though it has yet to be established whether this opioidergic mechanism involves direct receptor activation or endogenous opioid release and is comparatively toxic in nature.

Source: http://scholar.googl...l=en&as_sdt=0,5


Until I read this I had no idea Bacopa affected the Opoid system in any way. I have experienced pretty extreme bouts of depersonalization after cannabis use (due to its effect on the Opioid system), and strangely enough after just a few doses of Zoloft (which is now why I stray away from pharmaceutical antidepressants at all costs). Is there any risk in inducing depersonalization again by taking Bacopa? I have mild anxiety/depression and that is primarily why I even purchased it to begin with. I don't want to take any GABA agonizing herbs or drugs.

Does anyone know more about how it works in the brain, specifically? Also, has anyone had any negative experiences with Bacopa? Thanks guys!

Edited by xeon, 03 February 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[nupi]

It makes me lethargic but is a somewhat decent anxiolytic and mild but fast acting anti depressant. Does not feel opiod to me, not at all.

[xeon]

It makes me lethargic but is a somewhat decent anxiolytic and mild but fast acting anti depressant. Does not feel opiod to me, not at all.

Let's say you have a lot of tense energy built up, and become irritated. How would Bacopa affect that for you?

[nupi]

Likely to calm you down and diffuse the tenseness.

[xeon]

Likely to calm you down and diffuse the tenseness.

But is Bacopa totally safe? No crazy receptor down-regulation or anything like that?

[nupi]

It feels serotonergic to me, so there you might have something. But it definitely never caused anything like withdrawal for me...

[Galaxyshock]

Various things affect opioid system but are harmless. Bacopa I believe just lowers the threshold for the brain to release endorphins/opioids but it's nothing dramatic. It's somewhat adaptogenic in nature because there are initial effects (glutamate, acetylcholine and serotonin increase), build-up effects (memory improvement, GABA-upregulation?, thyroid T4 increase) and positive "after effects" like new neuronal connections. Side effects are possibly lowered dopamine and androgens but these are reversible.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 04 February 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[xeon]

Various things affect opioid system but are harmless. Bacopa I believe just lowers the threshold for the brain to release endorphins/opioids but it's nothing dramatic. It's somewhat adaptogenic in nature because there are initial effects (glutamate, acetylcholine and serotonin increase), build-up effects (memory improvement, GABA-upregulation?, thyroid T4 increase) and positive "after effects" like new neuronal connections. Side effects are possibly lowered dopamine and androgens but these are reversible.

Those all sound good, except for the thyroid T4 increase. I have no idea how that would affect me because I don't know anything about the thyroid hormones. I have an overactive metabolism. Could this potentially cause problems for me?

[gamesguru]

The studies definitely indicate that bacopa plant material contains phytochemicals which interact with the opioid system, just as the studies indicate that ashwagandha plant material contains phytonutrients which interact with the GABA system. Generally though, I think these negeative effects are secondary, and insignificant compared to to primary effects as adaptogens. Tolerance and withdrawal are only issues when dosing becomes excessive.

If you have an overactive metabolism, you sould have your insurance company ge tyou extenive bloodwork. If everything comes back within the reference ranges, your doctor will likely assure you that there is nothing abnormal, and that you, like all people, are prediposed to certain body type, in your case, an "ectomorph". This is just a sophisticated way of your doctor saying he doesn't know why you're different from anyone else.

In any case, if you're telling us you have an "overactive meatbolism", I would only take bacopa if your thyroid hormone levels are normal, since otherwise, supplementing bacopa could potentially worsen or increase problems. Until I get the results of this test, I wouldn't feel safe taking bacopa. There may also be other issues which you do not notice, relating to the liver or kidneys, which will be made worse by takin bacopa (imagine if your liver is on the edge of failure and you pump it full of bacopa). We generally don't burden people with this anxiety (or paranoia) though, because it is extremely rare and generally not fatal.

Edited by dasheenster, 14 April 2013 - 01:30 AM.

[xeon]

The studies definitely indicate that bacopa plant material contains phytochemicals which interact with the opioid system, just as the studies indicate that ashwagandha plant material contains phytonutrients which interact with the GABA system. Generally though, I think these negeative effects are secondary, and insignificant compared to to primary effects as adaptogens. Tolerance and withdrawal are only issues when dosing becomes excessive.

If you have an overactive metabolism, you sould have your insurance company ge tyou extenive bloodwork. If everything comes back within the reference ranges, your doctor will likely assure you that there is nothing abnormal, and that you, like all people, are prediposed to certain body type, in your case, an "ectomorph". This is just a sophisticated way of your doctor saying he doesn't know why you're different from anyone else.

In any case, if you're telling us you have an "overactive meatbolism", I would only take bacopa if your thyroid hormone levels are normal, since otherwise, supplementing bacopa could potentially worsen or increase problems. Until I get the results of this test, I wouldn't feel safe taking bacopa. There may also be other issues which you do not notice, relating to the liver or kidneys, which will be made worse by takin bacopa (imagine if your liver is on the edge of failure and you pump it full of bacopa). We generally don't burden people with this anxiety (or paranoia) though, because it is extremely rare and generally not fatal.

I've actually had my thyroid hormones tested twice within the past 2-3 years, but the most recent one was probably about a year and a half ago. Both times they said I was as healthy as I could be... maybe there isn't too much risk for me.. haha. I just know I never gain any weight no matter how much I eat unless I work out and put on muscle weight. And my body always gives off lots and lots of heat at all times, even when I'm cold. And my feet sweat a LOT, and they didn't used to (don't think that is related, heh).

[gamesguru]

Do you have a history with cannabis? Use and especially withdrawal cause sweating in the extremities and pits.

And if your thyroid levels are normal, bacopa should be safe for you. Your overactive metabolism is perhaps due to a mutation on the FTO gene, although I canot say for sure, since research into human metabolism and homeostasis is in its infancy.

[xeon]

Do you have a history with cannabis? Use and especially withdrawal cause sweating in the extremities and pits.

And if your thyroid levels are normal, bacopa should be safe for you. Your overactive metabolism is perhaps due to a mutation on the FTO gene, although I canot say for sure, since research into human metabolism and homeostasis is in its infancy.

I tried it a few times (throughout a period of 1 month), and could already tell it was affecting my short term memory so I totally stopped. About 2 months later I found myself having panic attacks and sweating profusely for the first time in my entire life and had no idea what was going on. That was about 2 years ago. I never even really consumed very much in the first place. But I still have depression/anxiety ever since for some unknown reason even when everything in my life is going exactly the way I want it to; that's why I have turned to Bacopa. What's your opinion on this? Do you think cannabis left a semi-permanent effect on my brain that caused depression/anxiety and if it did how could I fix it safely? I hate the idea of pharmaceutical drugs. I also have trouble going/staying asleep and wake up drenched in sweat and panicky even when I don't have bad dreams. It's becoming annoying because I just got a new job and it's negatively affecting my performance at where I work, which is a big deal.

[gamesguru]

If you have good insurance, get your hormone levels checked. That sounds like it could be a hormonal imbalance, ie) too much testosterone being converted to androgenic substances.

I doubt such limited experience with cannabis would cause a long-term issue, although it certainly could have worsened an existing problem. Among schizophrenics, those who consume cannabis regularly experience their first episode an average of 2 years sooner. Those who use it only acutely, less than 20 times in 2 years, may experience their illness at an earlier age, but this effect is statistically insignificant. If you're telling me you have depression and anxiety, I would have to assume you were born with mutations in your brain (like most of us), and as you come of age, they are emerging or becoming noticeable. The type of thinking where you blame past use of cannabis for these symptoms will only bring you down. It's much healthier to blame mother nature. I find it unlikely that such a widely abused substance is likely to cause permanent brain damage with light and acute use. It even seems that many of the deficits associated with long-term abuse can be undone with 6 weeks of abstainence.

Bacopa never affected my depression or anxiety, neither for better nor for worse. It did supply me a greater ability to retain diverse information, although this effect is very modest. You can try to allevieate some of your symptoms with bacopa, but idk what to tell you. It probably won't work and neither will anything else marketed as a supplement. St. John's wort tends to make people more depressed, even unipolar depressive patients. 5-htp is a joke and destroys your heart. I don't really advise getting therapy because I see it as a waste of money, but there are many people who sweart it works wonders. I think most people are smart enough to rationalize their own lives, as cave men did for hundreds of thousands of years, and do not need the assistance of a modern psychiatrict authority for a task which their instincts inform them how to do.

Edited by dasheenster, 15 April 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[xeon]

Relevant: Bacopa and the effect on opiates and opiate withdrawal