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Caffeine Long-Term Benefits... Most underrated Nootropic.

caffeine nootropic

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#1 Absent

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 10:32 PM


This is something I don't see discussed very much... in spite of it being the most widely used drug around the planet. When looking up long-term effects of Caffeine, almost all of the articles I see are related to the negative side effects, addiction, withdrawal, etc.

While it does make sense some negative effects can be felt when abruptly stopping long-term use, I firmly believe long-term, beneficial psychological changes can be caused by caffeine usage. I mean, it is only logical, if a drug is in your system causing your brain to function differently for a long-term period, then those neuronal pathways are going to face plastic changes that induce some degree of Long-Term Potentiation.

Here is a real life example that comes to mind. I have a friend who has always had a TON of energy, since I have known him. He literally has not a drop of anxiety or social insecurity, and is practically afraid of nothing. He is also highly energized it seems. He told me when he was a child, his parents would always have a pot of coffee brewing, and that he had been drinking pure columbian coffee since he was 7 years old, up to several cups a day. What I observe in him is, it seems as if the effects of caffeine are ingrained in his personality. It would also be a perfect example of my theory in the above paragraph. He was on coffee so much that it became natural for his brain to operate in that state.

Now, when you look at the negative effects of long-term caffeine consumption, such as withdrawal and addiction, you have to wonder how the body might recover from those. The body is fairly good at adjusting to operate under stress. If the brain has become used to operating in a "higher gear" as a result of caffeine consumption, then what would be the quickest way it might recover from withdrawal symptoms? A person might be low on energy and antsy for a while after stopping, which is because the body is trying to operate in a higher gear without caffeine aiding it. So instead of shifting permanently back into a "lower gear" the body will begin to compensate by gradually producing more of the chemicals needed to operate in that higher gear..... thus... LTP.


I had always tried to avoid long-term caffeine use, but after a recollection of an experience in high school, I decided to experiment again. 200mg Caffeine Anhydrous pills every day for 2 weeks straight. I then stopped for a few days, and during those few days, while I felt slight withdrawal symtpoms that I gradually recovered from, I felt as if I maintained the psychological enhancement from the Caffeine.


To give more credence to this theory, one can look at various long-term users of heavy drugs, such as Crystal Meth, Cocaine, Heroin, etc. Even after these people have stopped use of these drugs and managed to recover from the withdrawals and what not, they still often demonstrate psychological aspects that may have been caused by those drugs. I know a guy who had a problem with crystal meth, he used to be a very shy person... now even since he has stopped use, he still carries with him this sort of fearlessness-apathy that was caused by his drug use. He claims to me that while the drug made his life shit for a while, it also helped him keep a potentially beneficial psychological state for later in life. Though I do NOT recommend anyone go off and use hard-core drugs for these reasons.

It has been said before, and I'll say it again, Caffeine is the number one most underrated nootropic drug.
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#2 alan.r

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:10 PM

I don't drink caffeine because I have developed a sensitivity to it that goes from simply buzzy jitters to miserable vertigo. A couple bouts of that was enough!

In any case, I wouldn't disagree too much, but I think piracetam and other nootropics are probably healthier in the long run, whether there is any real harm in caffeine for most people or not. The one other thing I'd add is that Meth is a horrible example to use of something that can be stimulative without doing harm. In normal usage (which is to say, as addicts tend to use it) there is extensive exitotoxicity and cell death throughout the brain. Autopsies of addicts describe a brain that looks like a forest fire went through it; a sponge-like mass, not much in the way of neurons left standing. I'm glad your friend wasn't damaged, but I watched a few go down in permanent flames years ago, and it doesn't take long.
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#3 Absent

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:21 PM

I've tried every Piracetam combination under the sun and it seems to just effect my mood more than my actual focus, motivation, alertness, etc....

While meth is obviously not good for anyone to do long term, the extremely last psychological changes were just an example of how other drugs can induce long-term psychological changes. I personally don't believe any drug causes ONLY long-term negatives, or long-term positives. It varies for each substance.

#4 renfr

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:02 PM

It's not because he has been drinking coffee since he was 7 that it's the cause for his personality.
Caffeine on long term hasn't been shown to be especially good, there's even a study where it shows brain shrinkage because of vasoconstriction.
Also caffeine can cause adrenal burnout, depressed immune system, high cortisol etc...
It's fine if it's in small amounts particularly from tea.

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#5 Absent

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:46 PM

Yes caffeine can cause negative biological effects if long-term use is stopped, but the body is very capable of healing and compensating.

The point I was making is that prolonged caffeine in the blood can cause long-term changes to certain brain-pathways, increasing certain neuron pathway excitability overtime. The same can be said with any psychoactive substance. Use it for a long time then stop, those brain pathways will still have a high level of excitability - the brain CHANGES. I could use a million different substance examples... from past psychedelic users having flashbacks or keeping skills they gained while tripping, to somebody who took a multivitamin everyday and suddenly stopped - gained neural pathways will not totally disappear upon stopping. It is the reason why some people who have such profound and intense psychedelic experiences can remain permanently changed personality wise. Etc.

Edited by Siro, 10 June 2013 - 11:46 PM.


#6 alan.r

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:52 AM

Yes caffeine can cause negative biological effects if long-term use is stopped, but the body is very capable of healing and compensating.

The point I was making is that prolonged caffeine in the blood can cause long-term changes to certain brain-pathways, increasing certain neuron pathway excitability overtime. The same can be said with any psychoactive substance. Use it for a long time then stop, those brain pathways will still have a high level of excitability - the brain CHANGES. I could use a million different substance examples... from past psychedelic users having flashbacks or keeping skills they gained while tripping, to somebody who took a multivitamin everyday and suddenly stopped - gained neural pathways will not totally disappear upon stopping. It is the reason why some people who have such profound and intense psychedelic experiences can remain permanently changed personality wise. Etc.


An interesting write-up about the positive, negative, and non-effects of caffeine on memory: http://en.wikipedia....feine_on_memory

I suspect the conflicting results may come from not accounting for the compartmentalization of memory. Which is to say, in many mental states, including chemical states, groups of related memories are formed, and the information in these grouped (or compartmentalized) memories is most accessible while the brain is in the state that the memory was formed in. "Situational specificity of memory" is another approach to the same thing.

Briefly put, what you learned while drinking coffee you will remember best while drinking coffee. Test-prep 101 agrees, advising that you do your studying in circumstances as close as possible to those you will have for test-taking.

#7 Absent

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:05 PM

Yes I believe that is called State-Based memory.

---
Here is my latest update.... While it does seem as if my caffeine doses are becoming less effective, there are some effects I have noticed:

It has become easier for me to wake up
I feel almost immediately energized and alert after waking
I feel my attention is greatly enhanced

These effects are all BEFORE I have taken my morning dosage... with my prior dose being over 24 hours before. My brain has always seemed to be unusually plastic.... With many substances leaving lingering psychological effects for up to days after they leave my system..... but so far, the caffeine has been doing great for me. I wake up in a wonderful mood now and I feel immediately ready to go.

Edited by Siro, 11 June 2013 - 04:05 PM.


#8 chung_pao

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:06 PM

Every benefit attributed to caffeine is dependent on sufficient recovery and avoidance of tolerance.
Provided I don't become tolerant, it's absolutely awesome. Modafinil-lite, in a way.

Instead of changing noots, I've lately focused a lot on improving recovery, avoiding tolerance and sustaining the efficiency of the already known noots.
I've accomplished this by adjustments in Diet & Exercise: increased butter intake, protein intake and electrolyte adjustments, among other things.

But I agree with OP, caffeine is amazing. Combined with forskolin, artichoke and/or an ampakine it's even better. But caffeine will remain the foundation of most of my nootropic-stacks.

I also find that NO seems to be key to potentiating caffeine and excitability/arousal in general.
Nitric oxide regulates much of endothelial and cerebral blood flow. High salt-diets directly suppress NO.
This is where electrolyte adjustments come into play. Increased calcium, potassium and low-sodium really helps me maintain a high NO-level, which makes caffeine much more effective.

If you feel caffeine is becoming less effective, try 30g whey protein and some unsalted butter before your first "dose".
It helps synthesis of new neurotransmitters, the calcium helps NO and the milk fats help neural recovery.

Edited by chung_pao, 11 June 2013 - 11:15 PM.


#9 Absent

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 12:32 AM

There's a degree of truth to that... though...just because there are negative impacts that need to be recovered from does not mean there are no permanent benefits gained in the mist of those negative impacts.

I believe the body can recover from most anything.... and I also believe every drug has long term(some good and bad) psychological effects on a person, regardless of how many negative effects it has.

I weight lift a lot so I will have plenty of protein throughout the day, I definitely notice a difference. It feels as if caffeine speeds up the synthesis of all neurotransmitters. Next week I will be experimenting with Low-Doses of Amphetamine(adderal derivative), namely combined with meditation, to try to extract some high degrees of concentration into my waking state for long-term benefit, off the Amphetamine.

Edited by Siro, 12 June 2013 - 12:34 AM.


#10 chung_pao

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:28 AM

Careful with the heavy stimulants. My recent modafinil cycle interferred with my sleep, having signficantly negative effects on thyroid hormones and testosterone. It was becoming very noticeable after a few days.

I can definitely recommend Abelard's latest CILTP modification though: Artichoke extract + Zembrin + Forskolin + Caffeine.
I add some fish oil and 30g whey protein, and restrict salt (to increase ACTH, cAMP and catecholamines). This has produced the strongest nootropic effect I've experienced yet.
Strong cAMP, PDE-4 inhibition, xanthines and sufficient protein has pretty extreme effects in my case. The protein is a big factor, since it's a limiting factor in neurotransmitter synthesis.
However, if you'd substitute xanthine or complement that stack with adderal... I think you'd be absolutely blown away. :)

Edited by chung_pao, 14 June 2013 - 02:30 AM.


#11 Absent

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:33 AM

I know full and well the dangers of Amphetamines, I plan to do very small doses and no more than twice a week... I have a carefully planned out experiment I intend to do. Thank's for the tips though! I'll look into what you have suggested.

Edited by Siro, 14 June 2013 - 06:36 AM.


#12 hav

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:59 PM

I quit caffeine a few years ago in an effort to lower my blood pressure (which did not work, btw) and I noticed I felt much calmer as a result. And was pleased that if I missed my morning cup, the rest of my day wasn't off. But I recently noticed an unexpected side effect. Been battling pain in one of my calf muscles and when I downed a Starbucks on a long driving trip last week, it abated. Don't know if caffeine is supposed to be a muscle pain killer but its more effective for me than nsaids. Unfortunately, I felt less calm again so I've begun experimenting with a trans dermal patch applied directly to the calf muscle. 50 mg seems to quell the pain without any tension or jitter sensations, perhaps because most of it is going into the muscle instead of the bloodstream.

Howard

#13 waitwhatthe

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 07:37 PM

I know this is quite an old thread, but, since a lot of people end up on these threads, ages after they've been opened, looking for advice, I thought I'd throw this out there.

I absolutely agree with OP. I have noticed in the past months, as I've been drinking more and more coffee and using Modafinil/Waklert on almost a daily basis, that the rather crippling anxiety and self-doubt I once experienced is no longer there.

Firstly, when I'm drinking 12 or so cups of coffee a day, I can't think about "What if this, what if that" and I'm super focused on what needs to be done in the here and now, and now is all that exists. I'm realizing my ability to foresee consequence and potentially disastrous outcomes has been more of a curse than a blessing for most of my life, and these supplements (coffee and modafinil) either force my thought process to work too quickly for the worst case scenario to occur, or for it to weigh the positive heavier than the negative.

It's a strange thing, but I've never felt so calm in my life....and I'm practically always on stimulants.

The best part about it all is that a lot of the time I'll take a few days off from caffeine and any supplements in general, but my body and brain seem to have been retrained to behave how I have been on caffeine; meaning I not only ignore any self-doubt or self-defeating thoughts, but that I don't even have them most of the time.

It's a rather peculiar thing, but I've finally found something that works for me, and, maybe some other people will find it useful too. As always, YMMV and be safe!
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#14 mrd1

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 03:01 PM

Long Term Benefits of Caffeine:
There appears to be dependence on both mTOR inhibition and DAF-16 nuclear accumulation (usually not co-dependent) associated with the longevity promoting effects of caffeine

Adenosine receptors are upregulated by 20% in response to chronic caffeine intake,[108] although binding efficacy and the post-translational effects of adenosine antagonism are not altered in chronic vs. naive mice subject to caffeine.[109]

Caffeine has been implicated in increasing glutamate release in the shell of the nuclear accumbens in naive rats,[123] theoretically downstream of adenosine A1 receptor antagonism and via NMDA receptors.[124] !!!!

Chronic caffeine ingestion can upregulate the GABA(A) receptor subtype by about 65% in some brain areas.[108]!!!!

Chronically, one animal study suggests that caffeine can reduce the adverse health effects of stress over a prolongered period of time when the stress and daily caffeine consumption co-exist.[169]

Co-administration of caffeine and MPTP (a dopaminergic neuronal toxin) reduced the overall destruction of dopaminergic neurons by MPMT.[182] Interestingly, this protective mechanism is hindered by estrogen (and the above societal correlations were seen mostly in men)[183] and does not get reduced after caffeine tolerance.[184]

Several reviews suggest that there is insufficient evidence to establish a causative role of caffeine in addition[39][188

A recent Meta-Analysis of over 140,000 persons from 5 large scale studies[204] found a J-shaped curve where 4 cups of coffee daily was associated with a significant decrease in heart attack risk (11% lower risk) and 1-3 cups daily had ranging values of 4-10% decreased risk compared to persons who did not consume coffee.

The first study to note a correlation between higher coffee intake and lesser risk of diabetes was in 2002 in which those who drank coffee at 2 cups daily were half as likely (Relative Risk Ratio of 0.50) to develop diabetes.[216] Various surveys conducted since then establish the correlation between coffee and reduced risk for diabetes, which is independent of lifestyle and race[217][218][219][220][221] and two meta-analysis' support these results.[222][223] The latter meta-analysis suggests a 7% reduction in diabetes risk with each cup of coffee consumed daily, and show that the relation holds true for decaffeinated coffee.[223][215]

Source: Examine.com

I honestly don't know what more people want lol. I think the general population is just going on the heuristic of caffeine is a drug therefore, it is bad.

#15 _alex_

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 07:51 PM

I think this is all individual to your brain and I don't think coffee has either long term benefits or long term negatives in general in that regard (maybe some impact on your health though). It's proven for example that introverted brains are wired differently and not dependent on the neurotransmitter dopamine in the same regard as extroverts are. I also read a study somewhere once about the taste in drugs people had depending on brain chemistry. Of course people who are functioning highly on dopamine will benefit greatly from caffeine, I am not one of them and chronic overuse only caused me anxiety, high blood pressure and burned out adrenals. I have never felt better in my entire life since giving up stimulants. I'm also an introvert so no surprise there. I think this has to do with so much more then just coffee and caffeine in itself.

Everything has ups and downs but nature created us in a fine balance. A balance which humans are disrupting ourselves and then we try to fix ourselves or our functioning to cope with everyday life, ie drink heaps of coffee or need other stimulants to function normally. No wonder ADHD has increased year after year when children/teens grow up wired for endless amounts of tv screens, digital devices and high speed internet porn. Nobody gets their dopamine fix from reading books anymore. I think you see where I am going with this.

#16 vader

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 03:38 PM

I remember binging on coffee, ingesting unbelievable amounts of it. It gave me hallucinations and "stoned" effect. Not to pleasurable, but i guess i like to feel different, so i got heavily into legal stimulants, ie. pseudoephedrine, caffeine, sugar, cacao, nicotine etc. To bring myself down after the day i started to take downers, like alcohol & benzos. I ended up with completely fried adrenals and anemia and sibo. I haven't recovered yet.



#17 Dorian Grey

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 03:57 PM

I've recently become interested in the role Xanthine & Xanthine Oxidase may play in inflammation and aging.  Xanthine Oxidase is a known bad actor regarding inflammation, and I've been pursuing a theory that upping Xanthine consumption (caffeine/chocolate/theobromine), rather than up-regulating Xanthine Oxidase, reduces it through metabolism of the Xanthines.  

 

Jeanne Calment, the worlds longest lived human was said to have eaten a kilo of chocolate a week.  Could it be lower Xanthine Oxidase through higher Xanthine consumption?

 

Quercetin & IP6 are other Xanthine Oxidase inhibitors.  


Edited by synesthesia, 22 May 2016 - 04:16 PM.


#18 vader

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 04:58 PM

I've recently become interested in the role Xanthine & Xanthine Oxidase may play in inflammation and aging.  Xanthine Oxidase is a known bad actor regarding inflammation, and I've been pursuing a theory that upping Xanthine consumption (caffeine/chocolate/theobromine), rather than up-regulating Xanthine Oxidase, reduces it through metabolism of the Xanthines.  

 

Jeanne Calment, the worlds longest lived human was said to have eaten a kilo of chocolate a week.  Could it be lower Xanthine Oxidase through higher Xanthine consumption?

 

Quercetin & IP6 are other Xanthine Oxidase inhibitors.  

 

What about acrylamide? It's been implicated in cancer recently.



#19 Dorian Grey

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 03:30 AM

 

I've recently become interested in the role Xanthine & Xanthine Oxidase may play in inflammation and aging.  Xanthine Oxidase is a known bad actor regarding inflammation, and I've been pursuing a theory that upping Xanthine consumption (caffeine/chocolate/theobromine), rather than up-regulating Xanthine Oxidase, reduces it through metabolism of the Xanthines.  

 

Jeanne Calment, the worlds longest lived human was said to have eaten a kilo of chocolate a week.  Could it be lower Xanthine Oxidase through higher Xanthine consumption?

 

Quercetin & IP6 are other Xanthine Oxidase inhibitors.  

 

What about acrylamide? It's been implicated in cancer recently.

 

 

Good point (acrylamide in coffee).  Perhaps it's better to get your xanthines from chocolate than coffee!  Personally, Alzheimer's & diabetes scare me more than cancer does.  I'm not particularly afraid of dying, but I don't want to have to live with diabetes or Alzheimer's...  Ever!  It's a risk I accept for the benefit I'm hoping I get.   



#20 Dolph

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 06:35 AM

There is not even a reliable hint of a cancer increase with coffee consumption. Even the cancerogenity of acrylamide in humans as such is not without reasonable doubt. To think about this "problem" is like not leaving the house because of fearing the sky falling down on your head.


Edited by Dolph, 23 May 2016 - 06:38 AM.


#21 gamesguru

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 12:25 PM

We all remember caffeine affects extraverts differently, and so this might be a case of caffeine just making you more of who you are. A high school classmate used to spew and rant endlessly about his school club or precious mock trial. I think he had NPD and anxiety (also tics or Tourette maybe, but beside the point). He was a heavy coffee drinker, it would have been interesting to see how calm he was without it. I heard in college he cut back on coffee and was introduced to alcohol, and has been a lot mellower and normal since.

Heres one, also google caffeine working memory or caffeine extraversion...
http://www.sciencedi...092656680900069

#22 ironfistx

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 06:48 PM

Caffeine for me makes me have alertness and stuff, although after two days I stop getting the effect.  I take time off from caffeine and then can take some again.



#23 gamesguru

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 07:15 PM

I also think the polyphenols and theanine in tea compliment the caffeine.

And they aren't as subject to tolerance; epicatechin doesn't lose much of its effect, even when taken daily.

#24 stefan_001

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 09:12 PM

how about this possible issue?

 

Coffee makes you old? Study indicates that coffee extract inhibits SIRT1/2     

http://www.timelessl...nhibits-sirt12/



#25 Dolph

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 09:19 PM

It should be clear by now after years of misguided sirtuin euphoria that such an effect - if it is even real - has no direct implications. 

 

Further, while this isulated substance(!) from coffee may well be a SIRT inhibitor, another prominent substance in coffee - caffeine - is a robust SIRT activator and for coffee as a whole there are much more hints to suggest antiaging effects than the opposite.


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#26 stefan_001

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 07:24 PM

It should be clear by now after years of misguided sirtuin euphoria that such an effect - if it is even real - has no direct implications. 

 

Further, while this isulated substance(!) from coffee may well be a SIRT inhibitor, another prominent substance in coffee - caffeine - is a robust SIRT activator and for coffee as a whole there are much more hints to suggest antiaging effects than the opposite.

 

That would be interesting could you please point to some references on that SIRT activator behavior?


Edited by stefan_001, 24 May 2016 - 07:24 PM.

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#27 Kinesis

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 01:52 AM

There is not even a reliable hint of a cancer increase with coffee consumption. Even the cancerogenity of acrylamide in humans as such is not without reasonable doubt. To think about this "problem" is like not leaving the house because of fearing the sky falling down on your head.


Not to mention that there's a heck of a lot more in a cup of coffee than acrylamide. Or even caffeine for that matter. Hundreds of different molecules, many of which are antioxidants, anti inflammatories, and other functionals not yet even researched, let alone fully understood. The combination of which could be net anticarcinogenic the presence of one putative carcinogen notwithstanding.

Enjoy your coffee guilt free!

#28 gamesguru

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 12:27 AM

what foul creature would prefer to a leaf, a bean?
to theanine, triglycerides, are you serous mate??
to something sublime and steamed, something rancid and roasted!?

it's no competition, tea by miles!!
jesus will convert you.

Edited by gamesguru, 26 May 2016 - 12:30 AM.

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#29 Kinesis

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 12:55 AM

Ha! Yes tea is good. =)

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