21 replies to this topic

[NootKing]

Hey, i found this important info whilst searching over at reddit. I take no credit or resposibily for this post.
All credit goes to MisterYouAreSoDumb over at reddit, for supplying us with this great info.
So they have got some products from Cerebral Health tested in a lab and lets just say the results werent good and the cerebral health products put someone in hostpital after having a seizure twice and been put in hospital 4 times which is not acceptable imo!.

So finally someone has got something tested .. anyways i will post his topic .. and give you a link to the original.
I think this information is severly important and after reading this i would not buy from Cerebral Health::

Here it is:


Many of you may remember the issue that came up with Cerebral Health/Bioscience Nutraceuticals a few months ago, where their choline bitartrate was numbing people's mouths. After sending those samples in to the lab, the tests came back negative for choline bitartrate. We suspected it was choline salacylate, but decided further testing to ascertain the exact compound would not be worth the cost. Unfortunately that was not the last issue to come from Cerebral Health.
A few weeks ago, another Redditor placed an order pyritinol from CH, along with some alpha GPC and oxiracetam. When the order arrived, both the alpha GPC and oxiracetam seemed alright. However, the pyritinol seemed off. Before thinking about it, he took his normal 400mg dose of pyritinol and went out for a mountain bike ride. Within 15-20 minutes he was getting a weird euphoria and detachment. After another couple minutes, his memory gets very fuzzy.
Eventually his sister found him in the garage in a manic/psychotic state. He was biting his lips very hard, shaking, and holding his fists tight. Eventually he went into seizures when the paramedics came. He was taken to the hospital and seized again while waiting for the doctor. He had a crazed look in his eyes like what you see with people having a psychotic episode on MDPV. He was in the hospital for 4 days.
Not putting two and two together yet, he tried another small dose of pyritinol a few days after getting home, to see what effects came back. Sure enough, he started to get the euphoria and disassociation that he felt before. He also got the same crazed look in his eyes, and same rolling nystagmus. It tasted nothing like pyritinol, but more like burnt plastic. His cognition was off for a while due to the seizures, but he was sure it was the Cerebral Health pyritinol that caused it.
After doing some searching for similar reactions and physical properties online, he came to the conclusion that the compound was most likely a cathinone derivative like MDPV. All the effects fit with an overdose on something like MDPV. Since 400mg is a normal dose for pyritinol, but a massive dose for MDPV, that is most likely what caused the blackout and seizures. Since then he has been having intermittent seizures, and has been back in the hospital 3 times.
After speaking with the other moderators, we decided we needed to send a sample into the lab to get this tested. To prevent any accusations of tampering with the sample, I had another moderator order a whole new bag from them, then send a sample from that into the lab to be tested. So we now have two samples of the compound in question. The original one that sent the Redditor to the hospital, and the separate order we placed right after we became aware of the issue. Today the results came back, and it tested negative for pyritinol. I spoke to Colin at the lab, and he said that the FTIR did not match up at all, and that it was a completely unrelated compound. Due to legal constraints, the lab did not want to do a full workup on the compound apart from confirming it was not pyritinol. So we are going to be sending another sample from the same batch to Dacesafe.org to do a full workup. It will tell us exactly what the compound is, and what purity level it is at.
Here is the result from Colmeric
So in light of this, I suggest that nobody purchases anything from Cerebral Health. This is the second instance in the last 6 months where they have been selling a completely different substance than what it was advertised as. In this particular instance, it could even be a dangerous and illegal substance. Until we do a full workup, I cannot say for sure if this substance was MDPV or another cathinone derivative. However, it is definitely a psychoactive compound other than pyritinol. Obviously a lawyer is going to be brought in by the Redditor that went to the hospital, so I may have to take certain statements down eventually. However, I want everyone to be aware of this serious issue before it potentially puts another person in the hospital!

THE RESULTS : http://i.imgur.com/cCOCMUs.jpg
THE ORIGINAL TOPIC : http://www.reddit.co...esults_warning/

Edited by DontGetHuslted, 21 September 2013 - 04:29 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

Yup, I read about that. I haven't bought anything from them after I found out about their customer service.

Some cheap Chinese supplier probably sent the wrong item. Those guys produce anything and since CH never checks their own products, you don't know what you're really getting.

[Major Legend]

I always test an extremely small dose of anything I use first, to make sure I don't have any allergic reaction or its some other chemical which could be significantly more dangerous at higher doses. I recommend this for everyone, as everything you ever order comes from China, and its pretty guaranteed that the retailer would not be able to check every single batch ( doesn't make sense money wise either), and China is well known for well fucking up chemical manufacturing to save costs.

Of course the manufacturing in China must be mostly reliable as none of us have got poisoning from CH or anything else. I can vouch for their noopept and piracetam quality which is superb, but this does look like a monumental F up on their part and their suppliers part, considering CH is always considerably more expensive than other retailers, and I go to them pretty much because its guaranteed safe.

Edited by Major Legend, 21 September 2013 - 09:30 AM.

[LetMusicRule]

Just bought some piracetam... shoudl i be worried?

[NootKing]

Just bought some piracetam... shoudl i be worried?

I cant answer that to be honest.

But I would definitely be careful more than anything, just take low doses to begin with and see how your body reacts.
If you have a weird reaction, discontinue use and send it back to them and ask for a refund.

If i ordered some, and heard news of someone havin seizures and been put in hospital 4 times because of Cerebral Healths products, i would NOT bother taking it , i would get my money back,

But thats just me. lol.

Pyrinitol Is just as safe as Piracetam, its a b6 derivative and its one of the oldest nootropics known to man , so if someone got put in hosptial because of that then, yeah id be a little worried,,

Edited by DontGetHuslted, 22 September 2013 - 04:33 AM.

[protoject]

HOly crap man. I wanted to ask a bunch of skeptical questions but after briefly looking at this situation it seems legitimate. As a customer who never considered CH to be a bad company nor have bad product, I'm glad that you brought this to our attention. Actually I almost bought pyritinol from them before, but decided against it just by chance. Lucky me I guess.

[LetMusicRule]

Any new news from this? Why wouldn't CH post some certificates if their stuff was legit! Damn wish chinese would pay more attention to Quality control and avoid all this health stuff.

[TVO]

CH needs to be banned from these forums immediately.

[Michael White]

I also had seizures after buying some products from Cerebral Health. It was my first time trying Nootropics. I was in a completely psychotic state. I thought the paramedics were going to break my neck. I had absolutely no control over my bodily movements or functions. I shit myself, I was flailing my head, arms and legs all over the place. At one point I couldn't stop myself from headbutting my toilet (on the toilet is where this episode started). I could have sworn the devil was out to get me and that I had died. It was absolutely horrible, and it happened on two different occasions. I couldn't understand it. Now, I'm not going to say this is because Cerebral Health has low quality products. What I did notice, however, after experimentation (who the hell would do this after have two seizures that lasted for around 2 hours? lol) it was when I mixed choline with coffee. Everytime I do this, my vision first gets blurry (and this is when you know things are going to get bad) and then I can't control my movements, then I temporarily lose my mind. It's absolutely crazy, my roommates found me like this twice and I could only imagine what they were thinking. I have just bought some Aniracetam from them, and I'm questioning whether it's real or not. When I put it in water its kinda... staticky, for lack of a better word. It floats on top of the water and is very hard to mix into the water. I never feel any effects from it. Their piracetam, however, I do.

[protoject]

I also had seizures after buying some products from Cerebral Health. It was my first time trying Nootropics. I was in a completely psychotic state. I thought the paramedics were going to break my neck. I had absolutely no control over my bodily movements or functions. I shit myself, I was flailing my head, arms and legs all over the place. At one point I couldn't stop myself from headbutting my toilet (on the toilet is where this episode started). I could have sworn the devil was out to get me and that I had died. It was absolutely horrible, and it happened on two different occasions. I couldn't understand it. Now, I'm not going to say this is because Cerebral Health has low quality products. What I did notice, however, after experimentation (who the hell would do this after have two seizures that lasted for around 2 hours? lol) it was when I mixed choline with coffee. Everytime I do this, my vision first gets blurry (and this is when you know things are going to get bad) and then I can't control my movements, then I temporarily lose my mind. It's absolutely crazy, my roommates found me like this twice and I could only imagine what they were thinking. I have just bought some Aniracetam from them, and I'm questioning whether it's real or not. When I put it in water its kinda... staticky, for lack of a better word. It floats on top of the water and is very hard to mix into the water. I never feel any effects from it. Their piracetam, however, I do.

Have you ever had a seizure before this incident??

Are you saying that the specific product that caused this was Cerebral Health's choline product?

If you look up information about the pharmacology, effects or experience reports for MDPV would you say that it matches those effects? Or is it different?

Do you have any medical conditions that we should know about?

Thanks for your reply

Be careful , I dont think you should continue to order products from them if you suspect that there was contamination.

[Absent]

Before anyone read my below argument, take notice to some facts about OP:
Username is : DontGetHuslted (rolls eyes)
He joined this forum the same day he made this thread, only has 3 posts, and this is the only thread he has. Yeah Okay so he just happens to become a member of this particular forum, JUST to tell us this, and present us with this argument that is incredibly suspicious(for which reasons you can find below)

I am inclined to believe this, but I spot a very concerning logical flaw with this entire argument.

Why? Why would a company send you a substance that is MORE expensive than the substance(such as MDPV). Why would the company send an illegal product, that could easily get their lab/work place raided by the police with a single phone call? WHY would a company send dangerous products to it's customers, possibly harming them, or scaring them into not doing business? Even if it was just a mix up from the Chinese labs that make their products... that wouldn't make sense either. These labs are not in caves. They're just in China, and they make products for their customers. For the same reasons above, it would be illogical for them to send Cerebral Health the wrong products.

Not one bit of this adds up. Sorry. I don't care what kind of "test results" you show. If I was in the supplement industry and I had a company competing with me, THIS is what I might do to try to foil their customers(which I would never do).

Even if you do show "Test Results" to prove this, there is absolutely no way for us to know if you didn't intentionally send the wrong chemical to the test lab, or something of that nature.

I'm not trying to accuse anyone here, but Cerebral Health is a large, and successful company, and they likely take a LOT of business away from smaller companies. This entire argument here is very suspicious.

Edited by Siro, 02 October 2013 - 01:35 AM.

[chemicalambrosia]

Siro, read this previous thread:
http://www.longecity...erebral-health/

and this thread from this post on:
http://www.longecity..._30#entry598981

Synapse really hasn't been back to defend himself or his company, which doesn't make Cerebral Health look good from my perspective. I wouldn't order from CH, but frankly think ordering from most of the small nootropics companies shipping "grey market" racetams and the like is a little bit of a roll of the dice. Companies need better quality control, more third party oversight from the community, and more transparency.

[Absent]

chemicalambrosia,

CH is such a big company that they don't need to defend themselves. These accusations are petty, really. I am most aware of those threads you have linked, as far as I can tell there is only two individuals making claims against them, and for all we know they may be the same person.

It's really a smart, yet unethical marketing plan when you put it into perspective. Over the span of a month or two, make multiple accounts, make certain claims that would make people fearful of ordering from a company. Hell, forge a few purity test documents, or send the wrong substance in general to put some more fear into people for having "evidence".

I in fact do not doubt the possibility of this ordeal being true, but what I am saying is the evidence makes it sound very fabricated and highly unlikely as far as I can tell. The biggest clues being the actual 'logical' arguments that are being made, which in fact are not so logical. To me they appear to be playing on the emotion of fear more than anything and lack a lot of crucial analysis. There is always these risks we take when ordering supplements. The industry is highly unregulated, but the fact is these companies/people are in it to make money, nothing more, so it would not make sense for them to do stupid things that are harmful to their practice that can easily be prevented. Really, you think this large company sent out an illegal drug that almost killed somebody? Oh yeah, they must just have it sitting on their shelves unlabeled and for personal use, as they obviously aren't making money by sending a more expensive substitute. Just think this through, seriously, and please don't fall pray to naivety and emotional manipulation.

Also Ambrosia, I will quote you from a post you made in another thread.

This forum is less financially biased than Reddit, since a mod or mods of reddit are apparently starting a nootropics company.

Mods at reddit starting a nootropic company? The source of these rumors is reddit? Oh boy. Another piece of the puzzle becomes clear.


--
I would also like to point out this post of a reddit moderator strongly advocating against CH.... If you actually listen to the words he's saying, two things come to mind: He is either incredibly dumb to seriously believe the things he is saying, or he is blatantly lying and trying to scare people.

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/65915-reddit-dont-order-from-cerebral-health/page__view__findpost__p__613722

Edited by Siro, 02 October 2013 - 02:43 AM.

[chemicalambrosia]

Really, you think this large company sent out an illegal drug that almost killed somebody? Oh yeah, they must just have it sitting on their shelves unlabeled and for personal use, as they obviously aren't making money by sending a more expensive substitute. Just think this through, seriously, and please don't fall pray to naivety and emotional manipulation.

No, despite what the truth of this situation turns out to be, I don't think that they sent out an illegal drug. I agree that doesn't make much sense, and the speculation along those lines seemed pretty silly to me. I don't know too much about any of this and don't have a dog in this fight, but if this situation is as it was reported on reddit then it would IMO be more likely that the substance was improperly synthesized and/or had significant impurities which the user was very sensitive to.

Anyways, I don't have much more to say since I don't have any special insight to offer. Further speculation from me isn't very productive for anyone and I only posted here again to make people aware that there were earlier conversations on this at longecity.

Edited by chemicalambrosia, 02 October 2013 - 11:15 PM.

[TVO]

Why is everybody focusing on the drug he is guessing it is? That isn't the point, he is trying to get across that there sending random chemicals out instead of the ones there listing, this is dangerous and could kill somebody.

[protoject]

Siro I understand your skepticism but mistakes do happen.

[haltcitizen]

If you are so skeptical Siro, why not call Colmeric and ask them if the lab analysis is a forgery? Also, there's been multiple reports on reddit.com/r/nootropics a few months ago over CH's choline bitartrate which also turned out not to be choline bitartrate (by the fact the choline was numbing and also by lab analysis), so it's not as if this is an isolated incident. There are much more reliable (and cheaper) suppliers out there; to defend CH's reputation at this point is ridiculous.

[Nattzor]

http://www.longecity..._90#entry615490

[NootKing]

Before anyone read my below argument, take notice to some facts about OP:
Username is : DontGetHuslted (rolls eyes)
He joined this forum the same day he made this thread, only has 3 posts, and this is the only thread he has. Yeah Okay so he just happens to become a member of this particular forum, JUST to tell us this, and present us with this argument that is incredibly suspicious(for which reasons you can find below)

Not one bit of this adds up. Sorry. I don't care what kind of "test results" you show. If I was in the supplement industry and I had a company competing with me, THIS is what I might do to try to foil their customers(which I would never do).

I'm not trying to accuse anyone here, but Cerebral Health is a large, and successful company, and they likely take a LOT of business away from smaller companies. This entire argument here is very suspicious.

Yes, i joined longecity to share this infomation.I have nothing to hide.
Im not getting into an argument with you.

Go talk to the guys over at reddit and ring up the lab they got the substance tested at, stop being hostile over me, all i did was share this info.

Im not getting into an argument, im leaving it at that.

Edited by DontGetHuslted, 06 October 2013 - 05:57 AM.

[taktikz]

How does a company operate in this unethical manner online? It's like they forget people can communicate with each other on the internet. Old school business owners or just some shady people?

[medicineman]

I haven't posted in years in this forum, but I now find it an urgent matter that I do. The same thing happened to me. I didn't seize, but a strange occurence did happen.

I got my pyritinol, and I as I usually do, decide to test it with a low dose. About three hours later, I become 'not right'. Dissociated, euphoric, like a cheap MDMA buzz, with intense drowsiness and disorientation. Tried it again, same thing happened.

I searched everywhere for possible idiosyncratic reactions involving pyritinol. 'pyritinol euphoria' 'pyritinol mood' etc... Needless to say, no results. I thought at that point that it was an odd case and Pyritinol is probably not my thing.

Thank you for this. I am sure now that this product, isn't what its supposed to be. Shame on you cerebralhealth......

[Ceretropic]

I was just linked this post, so pardon my tardiness.

Siro, are you fucking kidding me? You are falling for Cerebral Health's political doublespeak? It's fine if you think I am incredibly dumb. There are always people out there too daft to see past their own noses. But you also think every other moderator on Reddit Nootropics is in on it, and we somehow convinced Colmeric Analyticals to come in on this elaborate charade?!? CALL THE LAB! I literally gave you all the information you could possibly need to verify this information. The only emotion I am playing in my statements is my own. It's the emotion of a man that is spending his valuable time and effort to help make this community better, yet keeps getting railroaded by under-informed morons. I've even brought it to the attention of a Longecity moderator, who said they would be discussing it. Where is this conspiracy you are suggesting exists?

If you want to keep buying and ingesting Cerebral Health's products, go right ahead. Hey, go try their pyritinol if you think I am lying. Nothing bad should happen at all. It's just two B6 molecules. Go for it.

Also, your assertion about Cerebral Health's size and professionalism are baseless. Have you researched them at all? Just look into a few tax records, and you will see what I mean. Hell, do some searching here and on Reddit, and you will find many posts about bad reactions or poor customer service. I even linked many of them for you on the other Cerebral Health posts. Are you just too lazy to click on the links?

In any event, you analyzing the logic or economics of the situation is useless. We tested the product via FTIR. There is no question that it is NOT pyritinol. Other testing is being done to ascertain the exact compound. However, that is being handled by parties other than myself. It's out of my hands now. You grasping at straws to try and defend an indefensible position is just silly at this point. There is so much evidence it's not even funny. Synapse has not once provided any shred of evidence or explanation to counter it. You think that's because his company is just so large that he doesn't have to? What world do you live in?

Anyone else that has had a bad reaction to Cerebral Health's pyritinol, you can private message me on here. I can get you in touch with the parties involved.