885 replies to this topic

[Major Legend]

nope, take a look at the title again: "automation and AI will take most human jobs". Claiming that will take some is nothing new and has already happened in the past.

It is my personal belief that only quantum computers can surpass human intelligence. That the progress of moore's law, and thus AI, will flatten out in the silicon generation is what most think.

 

If most means 90% I don't think so, society as it stands now would collapse if 50% of people didn't have anything to do. The definition of most is also hard to define. Don't computers/machines already do alot of our work? I mean it's not a human figuring out what to restock at Walmart...or whether the trains run on time (at least in Asia they use AI).

 

I think it's more of a cost issue - can you design factories to produce entire products from start to finish - probably. Is it cheaper than just hiring loads of cheap labour - probably not.

 

If you look at the vast majority of cheap labour, it's not they are doing something that requires the epitome of human intelligence, but rather it would just cost more money to automate what a general brain and a pair of human hands can do. The reason automation is not happening is because it takes a lot more initial capital investment, however the factory jobs keep these economies going.

so conclusion: I don't think we are in a situation where you could replace a lot of the population without some serious collapses. A good example is look at the rise of unemployed uneducated former miner/factory workers in USA, they could overthrow the government. You don't need to make a lot of people redundant to start seeing some unrest.

 

We could only move towards total automation if we can get past capitalism in the way it works right now. Unfortunately that's where my thoughts end. Nothing has ever worked better than capitalism. Even if you had an idea like wealth redistribution or resource based economy you  have to get everyone to agree to it - because of bilateral trade, and that would mean putting some very influential people out of work (who manage capital flows and investments). I just don't see it happening.

 

TLDR: Automation and robotics can already or very soon can replace a vast amount of human jobs, the problem is society is not designed to adopt it easily, as our society has been designed from bottom up to be based on the idea of scarce resources and people with jobs.

Edited by Major Legend, 03 May 2016 - 03:33 AM.

[mag1]

Something that I think the thread has missed out on is that the experience of mass unemployment has changed in the modern era.

Think back on the pictures from the Great Depression where there seemed to be a never ending line of men at soup kitchens or begging for work or just waiting about. It looked...so.. well, depressing.

 

Fast forward to today. Some southern European nations have experienced unemployment as high or higher than that

of the Great Depression which has persisted for years. In fact, some European nations have recorded youth unemployment rates in excess of 50%. Greece has endured an economic depression that has been ongoing for a decade.

Yet, I think we would be hard pressed to find anything close to the black and white film clips of displaced and discouraged men. Today's images are entirely unsimilar to those of the past.

 

In modern times, such people would more than likely have immediately enrolled in a MOOC, become immersed online, or with a TV show, or traveled ...

Everyone, even the unemployed, are simply too busy to shuffle along at the soup kitchen.

With so much to do and so much life to live, there is no time to waste! 

 

I would be interested to know whether the sociology of unemployment truly has changed this much.

I suspect that it has.

 

The notion that there are crowds of unemployed people who have no idea how to occupy themselves while

not working seems, as my best guess, outdated.

Edited by mag1, 03 May 2016 - 03:54 AM.

[niner]

Mag, that's an interesting point that we experience unemployment differently today.  Maybe the modern world has enough distractions that we don't need work to give our lives meaning?  Hmm.  Perhaps, but the whole thing really falls apart when the cable bill comes due, you're starving, and you have no money.

[mag1]

Sure, economic reality does emerge eventually.

However, we can see how in some of these Southern European nations where unemployment rates exceeded that of the

Great Depression, life goes on.

 

Considering how busy modern living has become, unemployment really only means that you are down to one full time job.

 

And isn't work for many just another of so many other distractions.

People will do everything possible, amuse them self and distract them self for their whole life to avoid listening to their inner voice. Rates of dementia are proportional to the number of hours of TV watched per day, it would not be that surprising that this would also apply to the length of tenure at many jobs. The human brain was not intended to do the same thing day after day year after year. Robots were designed for this, not people. it is hardly surprising that duplicating this factory mentality has created such an overwhelming dementia crisis.  

 

Every single time a stepped out of the car at the campsite, I felt immediately refreshed. Always.

No cable, no computer, no nothing.

 

If you want to get your head to together, you can't beat camping.

As long as it isn't bug season.

 

 

Perhaps you move back in with mom and dad for a while, go on a world tour..

It really does seem to me that there is the potential for people to achieve personal growth through adversity.

Yet, when you look back on the pictures from the Great Depression you really have the impression that this was not helping them find their

inner child. This might not be found until years later in humanity's definitively darkest hours.

 

Yet, if people do have other avenues to pursue it can be about personal growth.

Edited by mag1, 03 May 2016 - 04:17 AM.

[marcobjj]

Sure, economic reality does emerge eventually.

However, we can see how in some of these Southern European nations they have shown that unemployment that exceeded that from the

Great Depression can be incorporated into their lifestyle.

 

 

can it though? all the PIIGS have tremendous debt. the situation in Greece for example is very dire, they were forced into extreme austerity measures, as well as handing national assets over to the European Central Bank. I could see it motivating a world war in the future.

 

[marcobjj]

 

 

 

We could only move towards total automation if we can get past capitalism in the way it works right now. Unfortunately that's where my thoughts end. Nothing has ever worked better than capitalism. Even if you had an idea like wealth redistribution or resource based economy you  have to get everyone to agree to it - because of bilateral trade, and that would mean putting some very influential people out of work (who manage capital flows and investments). I just don't see it happening.

 

 

 

personally I think that post-capitalism will happen. I just hope it doesn't happen anytime soon, personally I'm not prepared to live the life of welfare recipient. Most people who have ambitions aren't.

 

 

 

TLDR: Automation and robotics can already or very soon can replace a vast amount of human jobs, the problem is society is not designed to adopt it easily, as our society has been designed from bottom up to be based on the idea of scarce resources and people with jobs.

 

Agree, and it is currently made this way artificially to keep people in the grid. For example banking cartels own most real state and at the same time make the mortgage loans.  They deliberately define the amount of hours in your life that you will have to work to pay for a house.  The housing market doesn't obey supply / demand dynamics like most consumer products. if it did, you could potentially have your house paid for before you were 30, then only work part time for the rest of your life. If enough people did that the economy would collapse.

[niner]

Rates of dementia are proportional to the number of hours of TV watched per day

 

Do you have a reference for this?

[mag1]

Oh, yes here it is. Might want to nit pick this one a bit. Is there reverse causation?

Glad you didn't include my full quote, yes it is true I did make up the second part about a dull job causing dementia.

The idea was to load the front of the train with something true and the back with something that might not be.

 

I did not want to provide the true quote in my post which is even more alarming. It is actually the number of hours per day

of TV viewing. Each marginal hour increased risk of dementia by 30% after controlling for other variables.

 

 

"Results indicate that for each additional daily hour of middle-adulthood television viewing the associated risk of AD development, controlling for year of birth, gender, income, and education, increased 1.3 times. Participation in intellectually stimulating activities and social activities reduced the associated risk of developing AD. Findings are consistent with the view that participation in non-intellectually stimulating activities is associated with increased risk of developing AD, and suggest television viewing may be a marker of reduced participation in intellectually stimulating activities."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15919546

Edited by mag1, 03 May 2016 - 10:59 PM.

[mag1]

marcobjj, you did catch me out on the statement about Greece.

Yet, the situation in Greece exceeds the severity experienced during the Great Depression because

they do not have monetary leverage within the eurozone.

 

Yet, I still tend to favor my suggestion that we have entered a new era in the experience of unemployment.

If anyone has rebuttals, then they would be greatly welcome.

I suppose there must be sociological studies that research how people throughout the community spend their time (in

employment and unemployment). Wonder what this research might reveal.

 

I suspect that we have entered a world where bowling alone applies also to unemployment.    

[niner]

I dunno mag.  Being unemployed and bowling alone sounds pretty lonely.  Lately we're hearing that the death rate is increasing among middle-aged White people in America--  Unemployment, opioid addiction, suicide...  so I don't think everyone is on board with unemployment being ok.   It might be ok if you have enough money and people to hang out with

[mag1]

niner, we have to groove to this whole global village concept.

We don't have to limit our world view to what is happening in our own backyards.

 

Strangely, America is now at 5% unemployment, this is considered considered full employment; possibly even below.

The financial managers might be working overtime to find a way to increase unemployment for the good of the economy! 

Some of the social issues that you noted likely go beyond simply the present economy.

 

Bowling Alone was a recent huge book from sociology in which they discovered that the wider social community has

almost disappeared from modern American society. Apparently no one had even noticed!

 

I am suggesting that this Bowling Alone phenomena might have crept into unemployment.

It does not seem reasonable to me with the abundance of information technologies that people would wait all day at a soup kitchen

for a free lunch anymore. With greater than 50% youth unemployment in some of these places one might expect that

social unrest might be more obvious.

 

Our thread might have missed out on this important insight.

The implicit assumption in the title thread is that the loss of most jobs will be a great trauma that will need to be surmounted. 

Given the extreme levels of unemployment that has been present for extended periods of time in some European nations on top of their 4 day 35 hour work weeks and 5 weeks of vacation, you start to wonder how traumatizing our future robotic world will truly be.

Edited by mag1, 05 May 2016 - 01:16 AM.

[niner]

The Bowling Alone phenomenon is a problem, as I see it, in unemployment becoming more acceptable.  In the late 18th and early to mid 19th centuries, millions of people worked in boring drone-like jobs.  Various fraternal and other social organizations sprung up as a way for people to socialize.  More recently, workplaces became more central to peoples' social lives, and the earlier institutions faded.  There were of course many other factors, but a lot of people got their social needs met (more or less) at work.   If we take work out of this equation, the earlier social institutions are no longer there to take up the slack.  Maybe something will evolve to take their place as more people leave the workplace, but I think there is going to be a period of pain for a lot of people.

[mag1]

Good one, niner! That is a great rebuttal.

 

Work provides this great mechanism to structure people's social experience.

The work place can organize and categorize people across a range of lifestyle factors.

This is a great service and reduces social frictions enormously.

 

As you say, without such an organizing function people would quickly become quite lost.

Even if the future is a world without work, perhaps the function of work to shape society could remain.

Perhaps something along the lines of an hereditary structure in which people might go to "work" to assume

their part in the social universe without actually working.

[marcobjj]

marcobjj, you did catch me out on the statement about Greece.

Yet, the situation in Greece exceeds the severity experienced during the Great Depression because

they do not have monetary leverage within the eurozone.

 

Yet, I still tend to favor my suggestion that we have entered a new era in the experience of unemployment.

If anyone has rebuttals, then they would be greatly welcome.

I suppose there must be sociological studies that research how people throughout the community spend their time (in

employment and unemployment). Wonder what this research might reveal.

 

I suspect that we have entered a world where bowling alone applies also to unemployment.    

 

 

They have no other choice but to accept these bailout packages from the ECB, and the austerity measures that come with it. America has been similarly taking bailout packages from their own Central Bank in the form of quantitative easing  since the 2008 recession started . No austerity measures so far, but what happens when US debt reaches Greece levels? with US debt taking a larger share of the budget year after year, eventually cuts will have to be made on pension funds and social security. At the point it could be 1929 all over again.

 

However I agree with you that western countries could afford higher unemployment. We have an abundance of resources. the current scarcity paradigm is artificially created by banks to keep Western economies at peak productivity. That's not totally evil either, the more productive the world is, the faster we'll reach singularity, when then he can finally pass down the torch and possibly experience mass retirement.

[marcobjj]

 

Perhaps something along the lines of an hereditary structure in which people might go to "work" to assume

their part in the social universe without actually working.

 

or create a simulated VR world where people still have to work for a living. Perhaps even suppress people's awareness of the outside world to make the simulation more engaging. Perhaps the Matrix was right all along, a lot of people wouldn't know what to do with all that free time.

[mag1]

Italy is not even the most affected by the economic problems in Europe, though their youth unemployment rates

continue to be disturbing. Is this the start of a new life path for people? Never connecting with the labor economy?

The site further notes that there is room to celebration as they are now hitting a 5 year low in unemployment

at over 11.5% for the overall labor market..

 

http://www.tradingec...employment-rate

 

These nations have no monetary leverage. This has made a bad situation worse.

At least with America if they get into rough waters, as they have from time to time, they can chart their own future

with economic policy choices.

 

Niner's closing the logic circuit with the observation of American society being centered at work, though, does put

them in a more difficult position sociologically. If this is more than just about earning a paycheck, this becomes much more

complex. If you can buy people off with a universal income that is one thing. Yet, if people have invested their entire life

and friendships within their working worlds, this obviously makes the path to a jobless future more difficult.  

 

[Keizo]

 

Sure, economic reality does emerge eventually.

However, we can see how in some of these Southern European nations they have shown that unemployment that exceeded that from the

Great Depression can be incorporated into their lifestyle.

 

 

can it though? all the PIIGS have tremendous debt. the situation in Greece for example is very dire, they were forced into extreme austerity measures, as well as handing national assets over to the European Central Bank. I could see it motivating a world war in the future.

 

 

Greece is a poophole that needs to pay debt. No one cares about it except politicians who want things(the EU) to look good.

 

 

I suspect some of the unemployment in western nations can be solved by simply allowing people to work rather than having laws and taxes against it, however I'd very much consider it not being enough. 

Edited by Keizo, 05 May 2016 - 09:00 AM.

[marcobjj]

could be solved by allowing Greece to have it's own currency that it could debase as a way to alleviate the debt. Having a common currency for southern and northern Euros is stupid, those are different cultures with different work ethics. Which takes me to a point that was raised previously. Germanics/protestant cultures, including american anglo-saxons/puritans would have trouble adapting to a jobless world. While their southern counterparts, namely Spaniads, Italians, Portuguese, French, Greeks seem to rather enjoy idleness. 

[mag1]

marcobjj, yes not constricting Greece to the eurozone monetary framework surely would have been the more sensible choice.

 

And yes, the grand European 21st century vision of forging the United States of Europe seems to have been a highly misguided concept. Those who saw all this before the fact possessed a fair amount of wisdom. When the kumbaya sing along was happening and we were all going to be one big happy nation state and everyone was going to be equal and we were all going to love everyone unconditionally... sure I was feeling so beautiful.

 

I was feeling very nice.

 

However, putting the economic fate of a very divided continent into one large pot can now clearly be seen to have been a policy error.

The problem is the dreams of governments occur on such an all encompassing scale that when they make mistakes the nightmares that they create are also on such all encompassing scales. Why didn't they take a gradual approach to monetary union and start off with some northern European nations first?

Some of the southern nations could have had their own block.

 

It takes no great imagination to realize that more of these financial crises can be confidently predicted at nearly regular intervals for all of time.

 

The United States of the Americas anyone? I would be up for feeling nice again, though I am not so sure whether I would want to acquire a visceral antipathy

for people in the Americas who have alternative economic ways of life. It is pretty easy to maintain a neutral opinion of others when your economic future is 

not tied to their perception of fiscal responsibility.

 

In terms of the north / south divide in Europe, I would be counted as a Northerner. I think I would at least have a chance of blending in with nations roughly running through England, Belgium and Germany. I am very unsure whether I could handle the Southern way of life. If I were to give it a try, I would certainly need a bottle of Xanax, a few bottles of anti-psychotics and a fair amount of propranolol. I would also probably call ahead to the cardiology department, to have a place ready for me in Emergency. Yes, being around

so many people who were just so relaxed about life-- especially considering the almost omnipresence of economic collapse-- would certainly create a medical crisis for me. I know enough of my genetics to know this is definitely true.

 

I mean I could try and pretend that I am not who I am for perhaps a short time, though I don't think anyone would be fooled.

 

My centennial edition copy of Atlas Shrugged would no doubt be a tremendous comfort:

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

 

I am not as sure about characterizing the Southern European (or broader European) work ethic as laziness. Europe might be the leader in actually making the transition to the Singularity way of life. Given the economic changes that have been ongoing for decades, Europe chose a non-market path. In order to protect a vibrant community life such a choice was perhaps inevitable. For example, the Common Agricultural Policy cost nearly €60 billion in 2014.

 

In terms of protecting the social life of their community, Europe's behavior has been adaptive. While as niner has highlighted, in those nations like America that live to work, the social life of the community is work. Unwinding the labor economy would likely have large implications for community functioning. Without the selection process inherent in the work world, the quality of the social experience for everyone would almost certainly diminish- probably forever.  

 

In Europe when people are transitioned out of work-- voted off the island-- they arrive at a great party.

In America when people are transitioned out of work-- voted off the island-- they walk the plank: No job, no money, no friends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by mag1, 06 May 2016 - 01:05 AM.

[marcobjj]

it's always good to have this kind of real talk. By no means do I think Southern Euros are lazy. The Classic period, Roman Catholicism, Renaissance, age of Exploration, all invented and lead by Southern Europe. They civilized everyone else, and you could even say invented Europe. Northern dominance is a much more recent phenomenon. The work rates just aren't the same though, and expecting Greeks and Italians and Spainiards live up to Germanic values in a homogenized economy is essentially forced assimilation. Idleness isn't an insult, is a different approach to life. Romance cultures are more fun, and they figured out ways to enjoy life more. No Northern country can match Italian and French cuisine for example, and Southern Euros have arguably superior art as well.

[mag1]

Yes, I agree that these are the conversations that we should have, though seldom do.

It is clearly easier not to even try to speak about difficult subjects.

Rating such conversations as unfriendly or dislike does not seem overly helpful.

Best to talk it through and perhaps find a different way of understanding it.

 

One of the great techniques is to try and relabel things and complexify the discussion, in order to

break out of merely reciting preheld viewpoints.

 

Laziness can be relabeled as community promoting behavior.

I am not clear whether the Northern European societies will be able to successfully transition to behaving

in such a way even as the Singularity looms.

 

Achievement orientation is such a hard wired aspect of these communities that even if achievement no longer were adaptive

it would likely continue. Much of this thread relates to bemoaning a future in which achievement behavior would no longer be rationale, all

the while avoiding at all cost a redefinition of life that would be people centered.

 

A great example of this was my parent's church club.

They held their club late at night because everyone was so embarrassed that they were no longer working.

Fair enough. Yet, my parents were well into their 70s at this time and they both had worked very hard for decades in their careers. 

It will be difficult to transition Northern European work focused societies to a work free community orientated life, when people in their

70s feel so mortified of what others might think of them for enjoying the company of others in the afternoon that they need to go their church clubs at midnight.

 

I think it is interesting to speculate how people might respond to an offer of receiving their guaranteed income only if they were active participants of a

community. Being paid to spend your life being a friend to someone. I know for me this would be very difficult. A life without the ongoing setting of

new goals and achieving new objectives (beyond interpersonal ones) would be nearly unbearable.

Edited by mag1, 06 May 2016 - 04:18 AM.

[mag1]

I suppose there is a cure to all of this.

 

In our family one member has achievement disease.

The siblings do not.

 

Those without this illness have spent their lives happily living the community focused life suggested above.

While the other sibling lived a life of near continuous accomplishment.

It is simply astonishing how different their lives turned out.

 

The siblings without the behavior deeply resent their other sibling.

They consider such behavior a form of mental illness.

It has created a nearly unrepairable rupture in our family.

 

It is already well within the reach of genetic technology to select against such 

behavior. It should not be unexpected that some communities will choose to do so.

They could remove the stress that results when some constantly push for success and

achievement, even in the coming world where such behavior likely will no longer be adaptive.

 

We can all look forward to a world in which no one felt any particular urgency to achieve anything. 

Hopefully such a prospect is troubling even to those who want to live a community focused life.

 

Edited by mag1, 06 May 2016 - 05:04 AM.

[niner]

A great example of this was my parent's church club.

They held their club late at night because everyone was so embarrassed that they were no longer working.

Fair enough. Yet, my parents were well into their 70s at this time and they both had worked very hard for decades in their careers. 

It will be difficult to transition Northern European work focused societies to a work free community orientated life, when people in their

70s feel so mortified of what others might think of them for enjoying the company of others in the afternoon that they need to go their church clubs at midnight.

 

I think it is interesting to speculate how people might respond to an offer of receiving their guaranteed income only if they were active participants of a

community. Being paid to spend your life being a friend to someone. I know for me this would be very difficult. A life without the ongoing setting of

new goals and achieving new objectives (beyond interpersonal ones) would be nearly unbearable.

 

The club met at midnight because they were embarrassed to be retired?  Sorry, that doesn't pass the smell test.  Are you sure your parents were going to the club?  Maybe they were doing something they didn't want you to know about.

 

A guaranteed income does not at all require you to have no goals or dreams.  On the contrary, it might help you attain them.  Working a couple dead-end jobs in order to make ends meet sounds more dream-crushing to me.

 

So, there's one person in your family who is very successful, and the rest of the family is envious to the point of defining success as a mental illness?  And you're proposing genetic modification to make people suitably lazy that they won't engender envy in others?  I have to say, that sounds kinda whack to me.  Maybe you should genetically modify the rest of the family to at least deal with their sibling's success graciously, if not have a bit more ambition of their own.

[mag1]

Ok, 8 pm a little exaggeration never hurt except one's credibility.

 

The experience on the Canadian native reserves certainly gives one pause.

The far north is perhaps the harshest environment on this planet. Those on these reserves

survived thousands of years without government assistance. It is unclear how long they will survive with

it. Considering that their communities appear to be in complete social collapse, it is not entirely obvious

that they even have a short term future.

 

My ongoing point is that in the approaching world, genetically engineering against this striving - achieving behavior

might be one option that some societies will choose. Why not simply create the genetic environment in which there

is no drive to achieve? If the Singularity world will be a world devoted to an endless exploration of friendship and personal

introspection why not engineer this future? Clearly the reason why we have this built in achievement behaviour is in a pre-Singualrity

it had adaptive value. It seems highly unlikely that the Singularity will be ambivalent about what is and what is not genetically adaptive.

People who are simply extrapolating the present through the Singularity almost certainly are wrong.

Why not at least entertain the possibility that achievement behavior might soon become maladaptive?

 

 

In our family the genetic difference has been extremely divisive.

It might be best for us to find the mutation and select again it. Clearly humanity has benefited from this success

behavior, though perhaps it hasn't ultimately been worth if from the overall perspective of the family.

We could change a single base pair and be rid of it forever.

If others are envious, they are free to make the change to their DNA. 

 

 

I just love the sense of power that it makes me feel.

When you look back in history there has been this ongoing social tension that likely has at least in part been caused by these sorts

of genetic differences. None of the revolutions ever really had any particularly noticeable permanent effect. Genetic engineering

would.

 

If achievement behavior is considered a form of mental illness, well, let's fix it.

If achievement will be displaced by the Singularity, then how would such behavior be considered adaptive?

It would be like a cat who hunts for birds, even when there is a full pantry of cat food.

 

 

I shutter to think of a world that actually embraced such a solution.

It is difficult, though not impossible, to imagine a world that embraced non-achievement as a policy objective.

 

 

Repeating the quote from Ayn Rand seems fitting:

 

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

 

On so many occasions others did expect our family member to live for their sake, to do things that they couldn't or didn't want

to do themselves. All the while, they maintained a deep resentment. Wouldn't genetic engineering make everything better?  

   

 

 

 

 

Edited by mag1, 06 May 2016 - 10:34 PM.

[mag1]

Scary enough?

How much more cognitively high end does this need to get?

 

https://www.scienced...60504151855.htm

[mag1]

Bre-X?

Not another one!

 

Why was I not informed of this?

I think for the sake of the sanctity of democratic ideals we should lock down this thread and others on the forum

to further posts on Bre-X or the overall concept of the EU (except for British nationals).

 

Let the UK make up their own mind, OK?

 

I can see that my statement concerning the monetary insanity of the EU could be, er, misconstrued, so just to clarify I would like to

add that it was not in any way my intent by this statement to validate or not validate the way of being, thinking or doing of others.

This is the 21st Century and I am sure that we are all mature enough to accept the differently sane.

 

If we could all just play our cards right here, then on June 23rd, we are all going to have one great big kumbaya moment.

 

Are they serious?

Victory is defined as 50+1?

That's nuts!

 

All Righty then  Bre-X, Part duh   it is.

 

Off to the pharmacy for some propranolol.

This one is going to be a nail biter.

 

http://www.telegraph...ial-margin.html

Edited by mag1, 09 May 2016 - 11:23 PM.

[marcobjj]

Brexit' could trigger World War Three, warns David Cameron"


Wow can this clown really sink this low. Its pure desperation talk coming from these puppets now. And you know, if breaking away and regaining their sovereingty really can trigger WW3 than he is esssentially admiting this is a hostile takeover.

[marcobjj]

And right around the time when a majority Asian London just elected its first muslim mayor. If the real brits opt to remain under their EU and other European countries follow suit or own immortalist and secular future is at a huge risk.

[mag1]

I'll reply to the off topic rating.

 

Actually, no I think my above post is fairly on topic.

I am not entirely sure how directly the Bre-X debate in Britain has been linked to the wider monetary issues that we have noted on this thread.

However, it would be hard to imagine that this connection has been entirely overlooked.

 

Several Southern European nations have experienced enormous unemployment rates, some exceeding those seen during the Great Depression.

As noted above one of these nations has just recorded a 5 year unemployment rate low of 11%!

 

The possibility of overwhelming unemployment rates in the lead-up to the Singularity is THE topic of our thread.

Watching how various nations respond to severe economic adjustments of their neighbors will give us an idea of what might happen elsewhere

as we inch towards Singularity.

 

Will it be Sink or Swim or thy brother's Keeper?

Edited by mag1, 10 May 2016 - 01:35 AM.

[Elus]

Wendy's To Replace Workers With Self-Service Kiosks Due To Minimum Wage Increases

 

Wendy’s (WEN) said that self-service ordering kiosks will be made available across its 6,000-plus restaurants in the second half of the year as minimum wage hikes and a tight labor market push up wages.

 

I think this is a fairly predictable economic response to increases in the minimum wage. It's an incentive to automate more aggressively. 

Edited by Elus, 15 May 2016 - 02:36 AM.