2266 replies to this topic

[normalizing]

^ the idea about the sleep study is a good one. i have serious problems with sleep. whats CPAP? im not sure if i have sleep apnea tho, but its some sleep disorder

[Nate-2004]

^ the idea about the sleep study is a good one. i have serious problems with sleep. whats CPAP? im not sure if i have sleep apnea tho, but its some sleep disorder

 

CPAP is a machine with a mask that adds positive airway pressure to keep your throat open. You need a sleep study though to find out if you have it. They measure a lot of things while you sleep at a hotel they have set up, at least at U Penn. If they diagnose you with sleep apnea (if you actually have it) your insurance (if you have it) should cover everything.

Edited by Nate-2004, 17 July 2016 - 01:34 AM.

[Nate-2004]

Just updating my experience so far. I'm on my second round of bottles and I've just started taking only 500mg a day for now, 2 HPN twice per day. Also I'm doing this because of CD38 and senescent cells, and to avoid undermethylation:

 

Apigenin 98% - 50mg / night

Quercetin / Bromalain - 3500mg / day

Vitamin B complex from Doctor's Best

 

Lately I've noticed a huge change, especially after adding the B complex. My scale shows a drop of 3% body fat but a gain in 4 lbs. I assume this is muscle. I also don't know what to attribute this to, because I'm also taking glutamine and carnosine. People keep asking if I've been working out. I've always worked out, but now they're noticing something for some reason and I haven't really changed my workout, although see below on squats.

 

I also noticed another big change around my girlfriend. Massive increase in virility. I used to have a lot of problems there for the last few years, but now it's like it was in my late 20's. So far this is going on 2 weeks now consistently. It could be the Apigenin, it is after all an aromatase inhibitor, but it could be the quercetin, which targets senescent cells in the endothelium and theoretically reduces inflammation which could in turn increase blood flow, it could be the NR, it could be all three combined or none of them. Nevertheless I am super happy about this one.

 

Energy wise I've never felt better. I just wish I could afford a new mattress to help with my lower back. In my 20's I could sleep on anything and wake up pain free, but since my mid 30's I've had lower back pain no matter what kind of mattress I sleep on.

 

On the plus side in terms of muscle strength at the gym, I'm having a very easy time with squats over the past 8 weeks. Those have always caused pain since my mid 30's and I had to slow down, lighten it up, take breaks, and take it easy to avoid injury and back pain. Now it's like it was years ago, so much easier and I can go heavier.

 

Cognition wise my memory recall has never been better. I have stopped forgetting things like people's names especially, or at least that is happening way way less often. I was getting stumped so often before. I even wrote and memorized a lengthy monologue the other day in just 24 hrs for an audition and nailed that part.

 

The only negative thing I've noticed lately is an odd increase in irritability. Not huge, but noticeable. I'm conscious of it though. It's not constant though, just off and on.

 

The only neutral, non-positive thing is that it hasn't affected my Essential Tremor. No improvement at all on that front and that's upsetting but maybe with time. Who knows?

 

 

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 19 July 2016 - 03:52 AM.

[ironfistx]

These are the cheapest nicotinamide prices I have seen:

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Life Extension 30 pack 100mg/ $20.31 = 130mg per dollar. Niagen

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Thorne Research 60 pack 125mg/ $32.95 = 227mg per dollar. Niacel

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Jarrow 60 pack 100mg/ $30.99 = 193mg per dollar. Niagen

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Thrive Now Health 60 pack 150mg/ $56.39 = 159mg per dollar Niagen

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Nectar7 60 pack 125mg/$46.99 = 159mg per dollar Niagen Be careful because this one says 250 60 pills but if you check the bottle it says 2 pills is 250mg

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

HPN 60 pack 125mg/ $46.99 = 159mg per dollar Niagen

 

Jarrow is the cheapest using Niagen retail price.  Thorne is cheaper however it's Niacel.

[Nate-2004]

Jarrow is a good price...

 

Per gram: 

 

Jarrow: $5.16 / g

HPN:  $6.20 /g

 

However with the discount code depending on how many you buy, HPN would be as follows:

 

$4.60/g (lc3)

$4.40 /g (longecity14 when it's working)

 

So that's a huge difference there if I did all that math right.

 

 

 

[stefan_001]

 

Just updating my experience so far. I'm on my second round of bottles and I've just started taking only 500mg a day for now, 2 HPN twice per day. Also I'm doing this because of CD38 and senescent cells, and to avoid undermethylation:

 

Apigenin 98% - 50mg / night

Quercetin / Bromalain - 3500mg / day

Vitamin B complex from Doctor's Best

 

Lately I've noticed a huge change, especially after adding the B complex. My scale shows a drop of 3% body fat but a gain in 4 lbs. I assume this is muscle. I also don't know what to attribute this to, because I'm also taking glutamine and carnosine. People keep asking if I've been working out. I've always worked out, but now they're noticing something for some reason and I haven't really changed my workout, although see below on squats.

 

I also noticed another big change around my girlfriend. Massive increase in virility. I used to have a lot of problems there for the last few years, but now it's like it was in my late 20's. So far this is going on 2 weeks now consistently. It could be the Apigenin, it is after all an aromatase inhibitor, but it could be the quercetin, which targets senescent cells in the endothelium and theoretically reduces inflammation which could in turn increase blood flow, it could be the NR, it could be all three combined or none of them. Nevertheless I am super happy about this one.

 

Energy wise I've never felt better. I just wish I could afford a new mattress to help with my lower back. In my 20's I could sleep on anything and wake up pain free, but since my mid 30's I've had lower back pain no matter what kind of mattress I sleep on.

 

On the plus side in terms of muscle strength at the gym, I'm having a very easy time with squats over the past 8 weeks. Those have always caused pain since my mid 30's and I had to slow down, lighten it up, take breaks, and take it easy to avoid injury and back pain. Now it's like it was years ago, so much easier and I can go heavier.

 

Cognition wise my memory recall has never been better. I have stopped forgetting things like people's names especially, or at least that is happening way way less often. I was getting stumped so often before. I even wrote and memorized a lengthy monologue the other day in just 24 hrs for an audition and nailed that part.

 

The only negative thing I've noticed lately is an odd increase in irritability. Not huge, but noticeable. I'm conscious of it though. It's not constant though, just off and on.

 

The only neutral, non-positive thing is that it hasn't affected my Essential Tremor. No improvement at all on that front and that's upsetting but maybe with time. Who knows?

 

 

Hi Nate, sounds you are ready to join the X-Men :-)

 

I will add the B complex to see whether I notice a difference also.

[yipbop]

What's wrong with Niacel?

 

That seems to be the cheapest.

 

 

These are the cheapest nicotinamide prices I have seen:

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Life Extension 30 pack 100mg/ $20.31 = 130mg per dollar. Niagen

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Thorne Research 60 pack 125mg/ $32.95 = 227mg per dollar. Niacel

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Jarrow 60 pack 100mg/ $30.99 = 193mg per dollar. Niagen

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Thrive Now Health 60 pack 150mg/ $56.39 = 159mg per dollar Niagen

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Nectar7 60 pack 125mg/$46.99 = 159mg per dollar Niagen Be careful because this one says 250 60 pills but if you check the bottle it says 2 pills is 250mg

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

HPN 60 pack 125mg/ $46.99 = 159mg per dollar Niagen

 

Jarrow is the cheapest using Niagen retail price.  Thorne is cheaper however it's Niacel.

 

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

After three and a half months of using 400mg of NR perday (see my previous posts) I am still convinced that it is a moderate force to the good. For the time being I will not up my doses, but as soon as the safety profile will be more specific I probably will.  I see no real reason for concern but you never know.  Homocysteine levels, for instance: mine were checked in february and one week ago. They were well into the normal range then as well as now.

 

Like someone here posted already it seems to be easier to postpone breakfast  (intermittent fasting) if I take 200mg of NR at 8 oçlock in the morning.

 

(A fitness magazine here in the Netherlands featured an article about the latest trends and mentioned in passing that more and more people seem to take nicotinamide riboside. Especially males who do resistance training seem to profit from  taking it....)

 

Harkijn,

 

Thanks for sharing about homocysteine. Can you give us your before after result ? the quantity of nicotinamide you can take without increasing homocysteine will depend on a lot of factor :

 

first, if you are hyper or under methylated

second, the time of treatment, we target here years of treatment..

and then your diet including also ur supplement : if you get enough B12 and folate, normally it should stay in control.

 

For now, I think you should also supplement using normal niacin in order to take care all tissue with precursor. And add the multivitamin if possible to make sure your homocysteine stay in control that way.

 

Finally, normally if one induce enough NAD+ increase, whatever is the way, you have to experience a decrease in body fat and increase in energy. Thats how metabolism work.

[Harkijn]

 

After three and a half months of using 400mg of NR perday (see my previous posts) I am still convinced that it is a moderate force to the good. For the time being I will not up my doses, but as soon as the safety profile will be more specific I probably will.  I see no real reason for concern but you never know.  Homocysteine levels, for instance: mine were checked in february and one week ago. They were well into the normal range then as well as now.

 

Like someone here posted already it seems to be easier to postpone breakfast  (intermittent fasting) if I take 200mg of NR at 8 oçlock in the morning.

 

(A fitness magazine here in the Netherlands featured an article about the latest trends and mentioned in passing that more and more people seem to take nicotinamide riboside. Especially males who do resistance training seem to profit from  taking it....)

 

Harkijn,

 

Thanks for sharing about homocysteine. Can you give us your before after result ? the quantity of nicotinamide you can take without increasing homocysteine will depend on a lot of factor :

 

first, if you are hyper or under methylated

second, the time of treatment, we target here years of treatment..

and then your diet including also ur supplement : if you get enough B12 and folate, normally it should stay in control.

 

For now, I think you should also supplement using normal niacin in order to take care all tissue with precursor. And add the multivitamin if possible to make sure your homocysteine stay in control that way.

 

Finally, normally if one induce enough NAD+ increase, whatever is the way, you have to experience a decrease in body fat and increase in energy. Thats how metabolism work.

 

I have no figures about homocysteine levels, I just accepted my GP's statement that they were and are still allright (as part of a regular blood panel). I just mentioned it here because in the other thread you brought up concerns about it. Sofar I see no reason why anybody would have to be careful about moderate NR use.

About the decrease of bodyfat and increase in energy, you are right. It's the reason I will keep taking NR. Since taking NR I have the energy to go to the gym twice a week and to otherwise exercise daily. Slowly but surely love handles are retreating and even acquiring a 'sixpack' is not totally out of the question anymore.

Lately, however, I have developed a cataract and NR probably did not cause it but also not prevent it...

Since after a three months trial period I feel confident about taking NR, I have also started to take 50mg of pterostilbene per day.

And because of my totally unscientific hunch that advancing knowledge on NADboosting will also throw new light on de novo synthesis,  I have now started taking 50mg of aspartic acid per day. Though I eat a varied diet I think aspartic acid mostly occurs in foods which I rarely eat.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

I think taking Niacin or NR at normal level is fine (with 400mg per day its only 200mg nicotinamide). What was my concern is if you take it at high dose (or frequent use) as somme suggested and do not consider multi vitamin. Again its depend on each methylation process from a person to another. Some person here was concerned by pre diabetic symptom using low dose of B3.. So it really depends upon persons and the diet

 

For NR i never noticed body fat decrease but I was at very low dose (125mg per day for almost 2 years). It also do not target all tissue, so for a full spectrum effect i would suggest to add niacin if you can handle the flush, or start with low dose of it (niacin start to load NAD+ from as low dose as 20mg).

 

 

[stefan_001]

For NR i never noticed body fat decrease but I was at very low dose (125mg per day for almost 2 years).

I think you stated sometimes that you are 30 so in that age you likely dont notice too much if anything at all. Personally I would stay on the sideline with experimentation. When my body was 30 it was in a shape and energy level that it would be impossible to notice health / anti aging impacts. Perhaps with hindsight the part that I would look at when I was 30 would be AGEs buildup and skin. ECM seems to recover but wrinkle lines stay even if they have become less deep.

Edited by stefan_001, 24 July 2016 - 09:18 AM.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

Yes I agree with that stefan.

 

But Im concern about visceral fat that comes with the cortisol / stress that I get sometimes. So I tend to get fat there if I dont exercise enough. I would like to increase my NAD+ strong enough to get the effect on the body mass and energy expendure

 

Im also concerned about brown fat that is decreased with aging

[Nate-2004]

To Tom: I'm not sure if NAD+ has any effect on brown adipose tissue or not. That would be interesting to find out, but I bet nobody's looking yet.

 

My question is whether anyone's experienced decreased lower back pain. I would expect that if NAD boosting helped most in muscle tissue that my lower back pain would decrease to some larger degree than it has so far. I still get major lower back pain upon waking every morning and it's been that way since I was around 34 or 35. If there is any reversal in the effects of aging on muscle tissue when boosting NAD+ one would expect less of that regardless of how good the mattress is. I've slept on a Saatva mattress recently which is supposedly one of the best for lower back pain, still no difference. I've also not experienced any change despite the numerous mattresses I've slept on around the world when traveling. 

 

When I was in my 20's and early 30's and a kid, I could sleep on anything painlessly. That's how it would be if aging were actually reversed in any way I think.

 

I did mention better performance doing squats. I think I lifted my heaviest so far this time around at the gym. I tend to cycle weight lifting in and out every 3 weeks. I do the HST method or a variation of it and on off times I just do a combination of HICT, running/sprints, rowing and high intensity elliptical aerobic workouts.

Edited by Nate-2004, 01 August 2016 - 09:18 PM.

[midas]

 

What's wrong with Niacel?

 

That seems to be the cheapest.

 

 

These are the cheapest nicotinamide prices I have seen:

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Life Extension 30 pack 100mg/ $20.31 = 130mg per dollar. Niagen

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Thorne Research 60 pack 125mg/ $32.95 = 227mg per dollar. Niacel

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Jarrow 60 pack 100mg/ $30.99 = 193mg per dollar. Niagen

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Thrive Now Health 60 pack 150mg/ $56.39 = 159mg per dollar Niagen

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

Nectar7 60 pack 125mg/$46.99 = 159mg per dollar Niagen Be careful because this one says 250 60 pills but if you check the bottle it says 2 pills is 250mg

 

https://www.amazon.c...namide riboside

HPN 60 pack 125mg/ $46.99 = 159mg per dollar Niagen

 

Jarrow is the cheapest using Niagen retail price.  Thorne is cheaper however it's Niacel.

 

 

Niacel (Thorne Research) is even less expensive (more mg per dollar) if you click on the 250mg option to the right of the page..........Thing is they label it as Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride

Anyone know what the "chloride" thing is about?

[Vastmandana]

LiveCell has a 40% off sale going on right now... last day.  Best price by far....http://livecellresea...agen_160728.php

 

$25/bottle of 30 250mg. caps... I just ordered a dozen for $327, which includes CA sales tax

 

[Nate-2004]

 

LiveCell has a 40% off sale going on right now... last day.  Best price by far....http://livecellresea...agen_160728.php

 

$25/bottle of 30 250mg. caps... I just ordered a dozen for $327, which includes CA sales tax

 

 

Wow that's a big drop, I wonder why the fire sale. Increase in supply? Unmet demand? Competitive pricing?

[Daniel Cooper]

I've been taking 250mg of NR for several years now.

 

Lately I've started having tendonitis in a few unrelated areas of the body.  I'm wondering if NR might be causing this through SIRT1 effects as have been proposed for Resveratrol causing similar issues.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Harkijn]

I've been taking 250mg of NR for several years now.

 

Lately I've started having tendonitis in a few unrelated areas of the body.  I'm wondering if NR might be causing this through SIRT1 effects as have been proposed for Resveratrol causing similar issues.

 

Thoughts?

Daniel, some weeks or more ago I scrutinized the whole of this thread (in order to re-invite some contributors.) I have not found any indication of tendonitis as a problem or , in the case of Nate2004, of lower back pain. However, NR supplementation apparently  does not prevent all kinds of aging mishap. I recently developed cataracts though I only use NR since april.

In the Curated topic one contributor sees some possible risk in using 1000 mgs per day, but your dosage is so much lower than that. NR is a vitamin, while resveratrol and other antioxidants may counteract autophagy which is real bad.

[Nate-2004]

 

I've been taking 250mg of NR for several years now.

 

Lately I've started having tendonitis in a few unrelated areas of the body.  I'm wondering if NR might be causing this through SIRT1 effects as have been proposed for Resveratrol causing similar issues.

 

Thoughts?

Daniel, some weeks or more ago I scrutinized the whole of this thread (in order to re-invite some contributors.) I have not found any indication of tendonitis as a problem or , in the case of Nate2004, of lower back pain. However, NR supplementation apparently  does not prevent all kinds of aging mishap. I recently developed cataracts though I only use NR since april.

In the Curated topic one contributor sees some possible risk in using 1000 mgs per day, but your dosage is so much lower than that. NR is a vitamin, while resveratrol and other antioxidants may counteract autophagy which is real bad.

 

 

I'm considering dropping pterostilbene, and honokiol and just sticking with the specific NAD boosters like NR, Quercetin and Apigenin along with some of the other prebiotics mentioned in the microbiota thread. I know Bryan is deliberating over doing this as well but I'm going to do it to see if I notice anything at all.

 

My next big hope for lower back pain is the hydrogen water I'm trying starting last night. I haven't read enough about its effects yet, only how to make it.

 

It was also mentioned that NR is unstable when exposed to water and the clock starts ticking with 6 hrs to degrade into something else (not sure what). I was considering applying it topically but because of that it can't be done unless you mix that into a hyaluronic acid gel before each and every application. That could be wasteful but interesting to try for two weeks. 

[Vastmandana]

LiveCell has a 40% off sale going on right now... last day. Best price by far....http://livecellresea...agen_160728.php

$25/bottle of 30 250mg. caps... I just ordered a dozen for $327, which includes CA sales tax

Wow that's a big drop, I wonder why the fire sale. Increase in supply? Unmet demand? Competitive pricing?

I've been buying from live cell for over a year despite some controversy... Periodically they've offered these prices. I always grab 12 bottles as I do 500-1000mg/day. Do half a cap every 4 hrs after a full 250mg upon waking.

I'm 61... Figure wtf... Data is exciting, I already do lots of life enhancements like pqq and as humanity is teetering... Wanna participate as long as possible

Edited by Vastmandana, 03 August 2016 - 12:40 AM.

[ironfistx]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned that taking niagen seemed to make me develop tendonitis as well.  So the poster above is not the only one.

Edited by ironfistx, 03 August 2016 - 02:12 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

 

 

LiveCell has a 40% off sale going on right now... last day. Best price by far....http://livecellresea...agen_160728.php

$25/bottle of 30 250mg. caps... I just ordered a dozen for $327, which includes CA sales tax

Wow that's a big drop, I wonder why the fire sale. Increase in supply? Unmet demand? Competitive pricing?

I've been buying from live cell for over a year despite some controversy... Periodically they've offered these prices. I always grab 12 bottles as I do 500-1000mg/day. Do half a cap every 4 hrs after a full 250mg upon waking.

I'm 61... Figure wtf... Data is exciting, I already do lots of life enhancements like pqq and as humanity is teetering... Wanna participate as long as possible

 

 

What's the controversy?

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned that taking niagen seemed to make me develop tendonitis as well.  So the poster above is not the only one.

 

So what did you do?  Are you still taking it?

[Daniel Cooper]

Daniel, some weeks or more ago I scrutinized the whole of this thread (in order to re-invite some contributors.) I have not found any indication of tendonitis as a problem or , in the case of Nate2004, of lower back pain. However, NR supplementation apparently  does not prevent all kinds of aging mishap. I recently developed cataracts though I only use NR since april.

In the Curated topic one contributor sees some possible risk in using 1000 mgs per day, but your dosage is so much lower than that. NR is a vitamin, while resveratrol and other antioxidants may counteract autophagy which is real bad.

 

 

Thanks for the info harkijn.

[Harkijn]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned that taking niagen seemed to make me develop tendonitis as well.  So the poster above is not the only one.

I must have missed that, Ironfist, thanks for reacting!

[jjgallow]

Just wanted to show this study:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4971637/

 

 

And, my own opinion that this has to be one of the worst studies I've ever read, if it was done as described.  

 

Who does that?      Who assumes that a mouse's ability not to drown in a tank of water is directly correlated to their ability to exercise?

 

Am I reading this right?   Did they ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe, the mice with higher bone and muscle density, and lower fat density, had a HARDER time swimming?

 

Anyway....

 

 

Started taking it myself 3 weeks ago, 250mg.   I notice an energy boost,  and clearer thinking.   Could be placebo, but I wasn't expecting either, nor were those the reasons I started taking it.   No adverse reactions ,will continue to take it to see what kind of long term benefit there is (reason for taking it to begin with).

Edited by jjgallow, 11 August 2016 - 12:50 PM.

[ironfistx]

As I noticed I was getting tendonitis I began ice massage, magnesium usage, and massage, although I don't take niagen anymore.

[Nate-2004]

Any theories as to why some would get tendonitis? On the C60 thread we were talking about the possibility that while skeletal muscle and density may be improved by boosting NAD+, there is still a problem of depleted collagen and cartilage that may make a person more prone to injury or in this case, tendonitis due to the increased inflammation from joints.

 

I am taking a lot of collagen peptides as well as N-A-G and haven't experienced anything negative so far.

 

Again though, the lower back pain has been ongoing for years before NR and hasn't improved yet, even with the hydrogen water experimentation. It was bad when I woke up this morning as well.  

[jjgallow]

Any theories as to why some would get tendonitis? On the C60 thread we were talking about the possibility that while skeletal muscle and density may be improved by boosting NAD+, there is still a problem of depleted collagen and cartilage that may make a person more prone to injury or in this case, tendonitis due to the increased inflammation from joints.

 

I would say you nailed it.    Or, put another way, why Wouldn't people get tendonitis?

 

Most on here are of that age.     And NAD+ is either:

 

1.  Not ever going to do anything for tendons

2.  Take a LOT longer to do anything for them.  A LOT longer.

 

 

Meanwhile, people here are on NR, presumably more active, with denser muscles, and exerting considerably greater forces on their tendons and cartilage.

 

May be this is a case of:   Easy does it.  Just because you have way more energy, doesn't mean your entire body is ready for it.   Ease into an exercise regimen, and temper the gains.

[stefan_001]

Concerning excersise. This one I have followed like once per month: How easy is it to get my heartrate up and whats the max. It has been some time clear to me that power output is better and I have been wondering does it also improve my heart. Today heartrate recorded well over 170 reacting quivkly to more or less intensity. I havent seen >170 for a long time and see this as improvement - its not that I was more exhausted, i simply can do more.

Edited by stefan_001, 14 August 2016 - 09:44 PM.