612 replies to this topic

[resveratrol_guy]

Finally! I managed to chat with a rep from Sino Biological. While she made it clear that their products are for research use only (as though we didn't know that), they will indeed ship to individuals. It's $748/mg, which is close to the global bottom, as previously discussed. Perhaps 100 ug ($138) or 500 ug ($448) would be useful to certain individuals; we just don't know all that much about dose and effect, not the least of which because there is more than one effect phase and pathway.

 

But do any of you care? Does it make sense to buy their product, then throw it to a trustworthy test lab to produce an independent CoA -- or just not, and save the money, and pray it's safe? Considering that this may be "the" choice we have, I think it's worth some discussion. What do you all think?

 

[plumper76]

I think it's a viable option. I would like to get it tested though at the very least.

[resveratrol_guy]

So I take it that my idea above was not exactly popular (and thanks for the feedback, plumper76). Fortunately, I seem to have found the data sets from the Japanese xanthohumol study of rats. If it translates to humans, then I think xanthohumol will suffice to rapidly increase NGF. Moreover, no toxicity is reported at doses much higher than necessary for such purposes (at least, in rats). Furthermore, it sounds from the literature as though the form extracted from barley hops (for beer) is indeed effective, which contradicts my above stated understanding. (Word to the wise: you won't get anywhere near enough from drinking beer, and the ethanol content destroys brain cells, as though drunken idiots haven't yet made that painfully clear.)

 

This concept is apparently so compelling that a US patent was granted for xanthohumol extract as an NGF enhancer back in 2004. While the patent is obscenely broad and probably should not have been granted in its existing form, it's an absolute treasure trove of information about this approach. Claim [0078] in particular appears to reproduce some of the data from that Japanese study which I was unable to find, demonstrating exactly the effects that I reported above, namely, the upregulation of NGF in the salivary gland (8000%) and brain (20%). Extrapolating to human dose would suggest around 1 g per day of oral xanthohumol (which in practical terms is 20 g/day of 5% xanthohumol hops extract powder, perhaps mixed with a meal). We could get by with much less if delivered intranasally, but the stuff is cheap enough that I don't think it's worth the infection risk.

 

While I haven't read the entire patent, it's a goldmine, if a bit redundant and overly broad. Have a look. I suspect that there's a therapy that can emerge from all this, which if it fails would probably imply that the whole NGF spray approach is equally invalid, as xanothumol seems to be like firestarter for NGF production (because, again, I think the salivary gland response is so much larger than the brain response due to simple physical proximity to xanthohumol.)

 

And BTW high-dose ashitaba (not necessarily high-dose xanthohumol) seems to lower liver enzyme leakage (see Table 3 here). How many of your "doctor office pills" can claim as much?

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 30 July 2015 - 05:15 AM.

[normalizing]

about xanthohumol, is it better to just purchase those hop extracts sold as supplements and get enough of xantho or its not a good idea since hops contain so much more shit that is highly estrogenic? except the two sources you mentioned, nothing else out there contains that specific chemical?

 

also, what does lower liver enzyme leakage even means, wtf, im confused on this is it good or bad??

[resveratrol_guy]

about xanthohumol, is it better to just purchase those hop extracts sold as supplements and get enough of xantho or its not a good idea since hops contain so much more shit that is highly estrogenic? except the two sources you mentioned, nothing else out there contains that specific chemical?

 

also, what does lower liver enzyme leakage even means, wtf, im confused on this is it good or bad??

 

I really doubt that eating powdered hop supplements is going to make enough of a difference. It depends on the xanthohumol content, even assuming that there are no problems with the additives, as you mentioned. And from my brief survey of available products, the xanthohumol sells for upwards of $10/g. Worse, a single bottle typically contains a gram or two of the stuff, which means you would need a bottle a day. That's nuts, considering that it all likely comes from China anyway. I'd rather spend a bit extra to test bulk extract powder, than pay a huge premium for pill encapsulation. (Granted, some of the better brands contain very high purity, so if money were no object, I would go that way.)

 

While I'm no expert on hepatic function, I do know that elevated levels of liver enzymes in the blood is a bad thing. For instance, when Morgan Spurlock made Supersize Me, the documentary in which he ate nothing but McDonald's for a month, his liver enzymes went crazy high. But again, we're talking about plasma levels; the level in the liver itself is not visible via a routine blood draw. Obviously, rapidly detoxification within in the liver due to high enzyme concentrations would be a good thing. My understanding is that eating junk food overloads and damages the liver, so that these enzymes leak into the blood. So seeing them drop could be an indication of either (1) liver healing or (2) a reduced need for such enzymes, on account of fewer pollutants and more antioxidants in one's food.

 

By the way, you raise a significant point regarding the phytoestrogen issue. My understanding is that hops contain them, which end up in the final powder. (After all, 5% xanthohumol powder is 95% other stuff, generally hop extract.) My view is that it's all about net effect. Soy also contains phytoestrogens (isoflavones?), yet many elderly people eat tofu as a protein staple. That's why I would consider delivering the powder in a low-sugar green juice (antitumor, proapoptotic, etc.). It also helps that, if you dig around Google, xanthohumol itself appears to be strongly antitumor (even though it's pro-NGF -- weird). Finally, I'm not sure that stimulating growth is the worst thing. After all, we want more neurons. At least we're not talking about other toxins which might cause DNA mutations.

 

I was also concerned about the use of toxic solvents in the extraction process. Fortunately, it looks like ethanol can be used, for example from this vendor ("Extract Method: Ethanol and Water"). While ethanol isn't healthy, it's obviously much safer than the toluene or acetone used to prepare other supplements.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 30 July 2015 - 06:34 PM.

[normalizing]

oh great reminder about the extraction methods. who knows how many supplements out there were extracted with sick chemicals like toluene, acetone and who knows what else. i wish those guys indicate method of extraction on the bottle. now it makes me feel sick the shitload of stuff i swallowed not knowing its extraction methods. like kind of sad to take liver supportive supplement with stuff used to extract it that causes more damage.....

[Alin Samson]

Have you consider Leteprinim(Neotrofin)? From the studies ,I found seems like a good way to increase NGF.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

[resveratrol_guy]

Have you consider Leteprinim(Neotrofin)? From the studies ,I found seems like a good way to increase NGF.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

 

The only clincal trial I could find, apart from the phase 1 safety assessment, was this one for peripheral neuropathy. No results were posted, which makes it appear as though the drug was abandonned. I wonder why.

[resveratrol_guy]

oh great reminder about the extraction methods. who knows how many supplements out there were extracted with sick chemicals like toluene, acetone and who knows what else. i wish those guys indicate method of extraction on the bottle. now it makes me feel sick the shitload of stuff i swallowed not knowing its extraction methods. like kind of sad to take liver supportive supplement with stuff used to extract it that causes more damage.....

 

Yeah, this is why lion's mane from trusted sources might actually be the most scalable solution. We have to remember what we're looking for here, which is a lifelong source of NGF, directly or indirectly. It's not as though one shot will just fix the damage, so we can forget about it and move on. So a well-studied side effect profile, a competent supplier, and affordable pricing are paramount.

[normalizing]

Have you consider Leteprinim(Neotrofin)? From the studies ,I found seems like a good way to increase NGF.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

 

i wonder if this comes from natural sources and what are they. or perhaps its fully synthetic...

[resveratrol_guy]

I finally managed to obtain some human betaNGF from here. I mixed it with nasal saline such that each spray is about 1 mL and contains about 1 ug of betaNGF. I'll give it a try and report back if I notice anything. My guess is that I won't notice much of anything at all, apart from perhaps a calming effect, which has been extensively reported in animal tests. BTW note that betaNGF is only 13 KDa, compared to 27 KDa for actual NGF. Apparently it's a very direct precursor, moreso than so-called "proNGF"; Wikipedia discusses the distinction here. To make things even more confusing, betaNGF is sometimes simply called "NGF".

 

I'm fully aware that despite refrigeration, the NGF is likely to deteriorate significantly over time, so I only got 20 ug. Perhaps I could use 100 ug within its "freshness" period. This is a subject of optimization, though; my first objective is just to see if I can tolerate it. I did practice first with a normal saline bottle yesterday. Suffice to say that dripping just a milliliter of saline into your nose is somewhat annoying, although manageable.

 

All in all, frankly, I think oral or intranasal xanthohumol would be a better approach, but I feel that the research justifies some experimentation with betaNGF. We'll see...

 

[resveratrol_guy]

So I just took about 100 drops (roughly 100 uL, so 100 ng) to the left nostril, so I'd have some basis of comparison to the right nostril.

 

I didn't notice anything until my tinnitus kicked up on both sides, a few minutes after I started dripping. Probably that was just due to increased stress at taking a dubious substance. The only other acute effect I noticed, minutes later, was a feeling of lightness, as though my body weighed less than normal. I get the feeling that getting angry or pissed off right now would take a lot of agitation, moreso than usual. But it's not an anxiolytic effect, par se, in the sense that I don't feel any calmer than normal. I just feel a strong disability toward agitation. I could well imagine that if the animals were feeling this way, human observers would have mistaken their behavior for enhanced emotional calmness, whereas at least in my case, it's more a feeling of aversion to vehemence or fear. Maybe the feeling of enhanced calmness will kick in later, or at a higher dose, but thus far, I'm no different than normal in that regard. So it's more like "negative anger" as opposed to "positive calmness". Hopefully this is a sign that it's the real thing, but I honestly don't know at this point. Maybe it's just a weird placebo effect.

 

Otherwise, apart from some mild burning in my nostril on account of the saline spray, I feel fine.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 16 August 2015 - 07:44 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

I worked up to about 1 ug this morning, split across both nostrils, and delivered before ingesting anything else. As before, I experienced a temporary spike in tinnitus after a few minutes. The lightness feeling kicked in, but quite a while later than I had expected it to. It's a shame that the action of NGF is so longterm, because it makes it very difficult indeed to assess efficacy, or even whether or not it's genuine. I did play a few Cambridge Brain Sciences games yesterday, BTW, but my scores were typical of past behavior, not that I would have expected any change so rapidly, unless the acute effects of NGF provided a sufficient nootropic boost.

 

[resveratrol_guy]

I skipped NGF yesterday. Then I resumed today on a hunch that it might explain the sudden uptick in olfactory sensation I've experienced in the last 24 hours of so. I'll post more details after I get some sleep. So here's what happened:

 

I just wanted to mention that for whatever reason I seem to find myself in the midst of a titanic brain quake. It's still sizzling as I type this. This is beyond anything that I've ever experienced. Memories have been gushing forth like a waterfall, interspersed with razor sharp lucid dreams. It got so intense that my right hemisphere started aching, and I had to get up from bed and post this just in case it all goes up in smoke. It's stultifyingly awesome!

I had an episode like this a couple days ago, about an hour after I last took intranasal NGF (previous post), but as vivid as it was, it was nothing like this in realism, so I trumped it up to my new juice diet or lion's mane, and didn't mention it. Tonight I took another microgram or 2, but this time I kept it sitting in my nose for about twice as long, head tipped back. I was expecting to feel the usual sense of lightness, but it never came, so I gave up and settled down to sleep. About an hour later, to put it mildly, there was a crack of visual lightning in my brain.

When it settles down, I'll try to back track and figure out what happened...
 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 20 August 2015 - 06:37 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

OK let me attempt to deconstruct what happened in my previous post.

 

So first of all, while it's difficult to describe precisely what occurred, I think it would be best characterized as a surge in vizualization capability, in terms of resolution and detail, synergized with an opening of the memory floodgates. I actually saw some decades-old objects that I hadn't remembered in many years. It's as though someone broke into my memory vault, and the images just started pouring out the sides. But it wasn't totally random. For example, I would see an object in my old apartment, then the same object again in an even older living situation. Much of it was flying through places that I had been, either just recently, or decades ago. While I obviously can't go back to those places to see how accurate the images were, the appearance of these long-forgotten objects suggests to me that some pathways got unlocked.

 

Now, as I've said in my thread, shiitake-maitake extract has been known to give me excellent visual recall for several hours at a time. But I ran out a couple days ago and haven't yet acquired a refill. So fortunately, given its relatively short half life, we can disregard that possibility. And even in that case, while my ability to visualize hypothetical situations improves significantly, the visual memory enhancement begins shortly after taking a pill; it does not generally extend to events prior to that.

 

So while there are a lot of commonalities between the second and third NGF dosing experiences, most of them have been the same for a long time. For instance, I really doubt that the vitamin pill I've been taking for years has caused a sudden surge in my vizualization capabilities. Because I stopped eating in the afternoon yesterday, the NGF spray is among the most proximate causes in both cases. I think I just dismissed that idea previously because it had not occurred on my first dose. (In hindsight, that makes sense, considering that it was only a tenth as much as the second and third.) Importantly, I had no such episode on the day that I did not take it; but on that day, I still had my usual few grams of lion's mane.

 

Now, I don't think that this is the whole story. I think there are supporting actors here, without which this might not have occurred with such intensity. Here are my prime suspects, which are common to both days, as well as recent regimen changes:

 

NGF nasal spray (Ocean brand nasal saline with a ug or 2 of betaNGF)

lion's mane (dosed for over a month, recently increased to 4-6 grams per day, Fungi Perfecti brand)

nicotinamide (500 mg before bed, shortly before NGF delivery)

methylcobalamin (5000 ug at same time as nicotinamide, Jarrow brand)

melatonin (300 ug, extended release, LEF brand)

Blue Machine juice (1 small bottle from Naked Juice, taken hours prior)

 

If it's not the NGF spray that's doing this, then it must be that I've crossed a threshold with the lion's mane. I find that a bit improbable, however, because I merely doubled the dose, and the visual memory episodes were radical, sudden departures in capability, which I would not expect after a month on this supplement. But who knows, maybe 4 grams is the magic threshold for me. Even then, the fact that this did not occur on the night when I did not insufflate NGF is suggestive as to the real cause.

 

I should add that I have no reason at present to believe that there is any other benefit underway apart from this particular capacity, and the aforementioned olfactory enhancement. For the record, the latter began 2 days ago as a bout of parosmia episodes superimposed on a normal but subdued olfactory capability. (For example, I smelled a faint bleach odor in my room, when none had been used there in months.) Then yesterday, I noticed a distinct improvement in such. It was for this particular reason that I decided to go back to NGF -- on the hopes that further enhancement was to be had, which then seems to have precipitated the foregoing event.

 

I should make a few notes on methodology, as well. First of all, when I dripped it into my nose with my head tilted back, I tried to hit the little area which "buzzes" just before you sneeze; it's my understanding that this is the olfactory bulb. Secondly, I tried and mostly succeeded at preventing the liquid from escaping into my throat, blowing it back out into a tissue after a minute or so. Roughly, I would say that I had administered 20 drops to each nostril before each such delayed blowout. The downside of all this is that it left my anterior nasal region sore and burning, probably from the sodium and other preservatives in the nasal spray. And finally, I cleaned everything out with "normal" nasal spray and another blowout after the fact, followed by use of a nasal humidifing machine for relief of the soreness. So if I make more nasal spray, I will definitely use a higher concentration of NGF.

 

It's also noteworthy that the associated dull headache started in the front on the right, and spread gradually to the midline on both sides during the visualization event. This would be roughly consistent with the insufflation location and subsequent diffusion, which we know to occur based on the rabbit studies mentioned above. And actually, it follows roughly the same hour-or-two front-to-back diffusion timeline from that study. It's also different from my shiitake-maitake experience, which generally does not induce a headache.

 

I do want to emphasize that what occurred yesterday did not involve hallucination, in the sense that while the "movie" was vividly believable, I knew it was a movie. Granted, it continued in the back of my mind even after getting up from bed.

 

I'm going to try a few more experiments in order to narrow this down. It's possible, of course, that I've discovered that Blue Machine plus lion's mane results in a visual memory explosion. (That would be an economical breakthrough!) We'll see.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 20 August 2015 - 02:46 PM.

[Remington]

Res. this is starting to get good. Hey why not try them individually each night to see who the culprit is? Or do you think it's the combination of a few? Obviously the NGFbeta is a big part of it, since you said this hasn't happen before.

[resveratrol_guy]

Res. this is starting to get good. Hey why not try them individually each night to see who the culprit is? Or do you think it's the combination of a few? Obviously the NGFbeta is a big part of it, since you said this hasn't happen before.

 

Yeah, I think that's what I need to do. And yes I think it's more than one of the above ingredients; otherwise this probably would have been reported in the human intracranial injection studies. I've had my Blue Machine again today, and 500 mg niacin, but no nicotinamide, methylcobalamin, melatonin, shiitake-maitake, or betaNGF yet. I'm racing against the clock because presumably the betaNGF nasal spray is denaturing by the day in my fridge, which complicates things somewhat because if I wait too long -- and who knows how long -- it won't work at all.

To be honest I'm not certain that betaNGF has anything to do with it. It might be, for instance, that nicotinamide just before bed unlocks some neurochemical potential that lion's mane put in place over several weeks, and I just happen to have built up enough to unleash an avalanche. At least, no matter what it turns out to be, there is no reason that this should not work for everyone else, given the likely absence of any rare genetic aberrations in my case.

Correction: when I said "NGF" above, I was referring to 13 KDa betaNGF, not 27 KDa NGF. So to whoever might copy me (which I am not advising), don't forget this. It might matter.
 

[resveratrol_guy]

OK I tried the exact same regimen as above, but randomly decided to leave out the methylcobalamin and the betaNGF. As I lay down to sleep, I tried to initiate the same process, with some success. However, the resolution, speed, and duration of the images was clearly less. Overall realism was substantially diminished as well. All in all, it was what I would expect of my normal visualization capability.

 

So one thing this proves is that, even if the betaNGF is the cause, then my previous experience with it was due to early phase cell signalling (probably NSC or astrocyte activation), as opposed to a structural brain change; otherwise, the same capability should have been available last night. This would be consistent with what is known about this sort of therapy from animal and human trials, namely, that it acts over weeks or months, following an initial "wake up" signal.

 

One other thing I should probably mention is that my raw morning egg has started tasting like vanilla ice cream in the past several days. (Liquid eggs are really disgusting, so you would never believe this unless it happened to you. This has happened to me probably a hundred times over the years.) This is a well-known neurological response to nutritional deficits, which might be expected to occur during my recent transition to a calorically restricted state. But it may also indicate accelerated choline depletion, potentially due to the action of betaNGF. At some point I may trade some juice calories for an additional egg.

 

My plan now, obviously, is to restore the methylcobalamin and the betaNGF tonight. I'm going to omit shiitake-maitake until I figure this out. Will report back.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 21 August 2015 - 01:12 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

I was very tired last night, no doubt due to this low-calorie high-sugar diet that can really leave one mentally bankrupt at the end of a long day. Nevertheless, I would say that last night's experience most closely resembled the second dose, with the very clear visualization, but not at the level of the third dose. Just to narrow it down further, I skipped the methylcobalamin, but took everything else including betaNGF and the Blue Machine (before bed and in the afternoon, respectively). I did notice, unexpectedly, another uptick in tinnitus roughly half an hour before the visual effects occurred. So perhaps that's one of the effects, because this time, I wasn't nervous about what I was doing. And this time, there was no headache, which I suppose reflects the lower intensity relative to the third dose. Nor was there any discernable feeling of lightness, so perhaps that was placebo; it was a subtle effect relative to the obvious vizualization changes. Unfortunately, I ran out of betaNGF after about 70 drops in each nostril, vs. 100, so I suppose I underestimated the volume of a drop. For that reason, it's likely that I got as much as 8 ug on that third dose. In hindsight, my low energy level and lower dose are qualitatively consistent with the magnitude of the effect.
 

So while I'm mostly convinced that there's something in the betaNGF nasal spray doing this, what is it? Of course, betaNGF itself would be a good hypothesis. But perhaps it's a preservative or contaminant the vial that it shipped in, or something in the nasal spray (phenylcarbinol? benzalkonium chloride?). Cambridge Brain Sciences, if anything, has noted poor cognitive performance lately, especially at night, which again probably points back to the diet. (Hopefully this will improve as my mitochondrial efficiency increases and I add back some coconut oil.) In any event, it's completely clear that the vivid dreams have not resulted from structural changes to neurons. Even this morning, when I tried to resume last night's lucid dreaming episode, I couldn't muster it in anywhere near the same quality. All of these experiences came and went in less than 4 hours.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 22 August 2015 - 02:21 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

My sense of smell has noticeably improved in the last couple days. Among other things, I've become offended by the chlorine in my tap water that never used to bother me. I don't know if this results from betaNGF, although that would make sense if it's real.

 

I also switched, yesterday, from about 5g/day of Fungi Perfecti lion's mane to about the same amount of Aloha Medicinals. My expectation is that the latter is actually inferior because it contains more of the fruiting body, which is supposed to be sort of useless. But perhaps this has something to do with the olfactory improvement. I should also note that, whereas Fungi Perfecti tastes like delicious seafood, the Aloha stuff is rather medicinal indeed. It might just be that Aloha is less adulterated with tasty grain products from the growing medium.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 27 August 2015 - 03:22 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

NGF blows away any nootropic on the market. And now, we actually have proof.

 

"All of the [human] Alzheimer's disease brains showed anatomical evidence of a growth response to the growth factor... the findings indicate NGF is safe over extended period".

 

This is a breakthough finding based on autopsies of individuals who participated in phase 1 (safety) trials of intracranial NGF starting back in 2001. As I've said before, I think intranasal betaNGF may actually be more effective, because although the amount delivered per dose is tiny by comparison, it can be repeated an unlimited number of times over the years, whereas habitual intracranial injection is obviously impractical. And now, at least, we have some satisfying long term safety data on its use. I think this also bodes well for chronic use of lion's mane, ashitaba, and other indirect NGF upregulators.

 

Here is the news summary and here is the full text of the study.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 28 August 2015 - 05:44 PM.

[h2o]

Hi resveratrol_guy!

 

Wow, seems like you had a stellar response to betaNGF especially in regards to visualization capabilities. This is what many people here on Longecity imagine when taking research chemicals for boosting brain capacities. Given your initial benefits, do you think it’s worth further experimentation despite the high financial cost and quick degradation of the betaNGF molecule?

 

Also, I have just recently started taking lion’s mane and I only wish I had started years ago. I’ve always thought that it would take 6+ months to see results with lion’s mane so I turned to Noopept, NSI-189, and Semax for neurogenesis. My impression was that lion’s name would be weak and unnoticeable, but man I was wrong. The first time I took lion’s mane (8 days ago) I put a gram in boiling water and it caused a natural stimulation effect, and I thought my results were too good for day 1 when I should feel effects after 2 months. I later find out that ALCAR actually increases sensitivity to NGF and I have been taking 500mg of ALCAR every day for a few years now. I was actually thinking about removing ALCAR from my stack but I’ve changed my mind after my good results with lion’s mane.

 

Do you think the Fungi Perfecti lion’s mane is a good value for the money at about .90 a gram? I have also tried the Mushroom Matrix brand of lion’s mane which is about .15 a gram for bulk organic powder, but subjectively Fungi Perfecti is more stimulating and effective for me.

[resveratrol_guy]

Hi resveratrol_guy!

 

Wow, seems like you had a stellar response to betaNGF especially in regards to visualization capabilities. This is what many people here on Longecity imagine when taking research chemicals for boosting brain capacities. Given your initial benefits, do you think it’s worth further experimentation despite the high financial cost and quick degradation of the betaNGF molecule?

 

Also, I have just recently started taking lion’s mane and I only wish I had started years ago. I’ve always thought that it would take 6+ months to see results with lion’s mane so I turned to Noopept, NSI-189, and Semax for neurogenesis. My impression was that lion’s name would be weak and unnoticeable, but man I was wrong. The first time I took lion’s mane (8 days ago) I put a gram in boiling water and it caused a natural stimulation effect, and I thought my results were too good for day 1 when I should feel effects after 2 months. I later find out that ALCAR actually increases sensitivity to NGF and I have been taking 500mg of ALCAR every day for a few years now. I was actually thinking about removing ALCAR from my stack but I’ve changed my mind after my good results with lion’s mane.

 

Do you think the Fungi Perfecti lion’s mane is a good value for the money at about .90 a gram? I have also tried the Mushroom Matrix brand of lion’s mane which is about .15 a gram for bulk organic powder, but subjectively Fungi Perfecti is more stimulating and effective for me.

 

I had no idea that ALCAR could increase NGF sensitivity. If nothing else, that might help us achieve a greater effect with fewer betaNGF dollars, so thanks for the link! (Just be aware of this negative side effect, which is probably manageable.)

 

I do indeed think that intranasal betaNGF deserves serious attention. I've never had visualization experiences of that degree of realism, ever. And here I am, 41, post-stroke-or-something, experiencing something that I could not have mustered in my 20s. Now, to be clear, I haven't been able to attain such heights of meditation since my previous dose several days ago. I can still picture things in my head, and I can still dream, but it's like normal TV instead of a movie theater. Which simply reinforces my hypothesis that the experience was indicative of an early-phase effect. I wish that someone would do a clinical trial, and it would actually be worth the investment, because it's so expensive even without patent protection. Of course, the chances of that are essentially zero; at best, we might see perverted pharmaceutical analogs of NGF which cause horrendous side effects but are patentable. So that means it's up to us, as ethical biohackers, to do our best to analyze this compound. Maybe it's fake. Maybe it's contaminated. Maybe my dosing regimen is inefficient. Maybe it burns out the nasal passages with longterm use. All I can report is what I experience. While it's not cheap, dementia is far more expensive. And for the record, I'm not so sure that it's rapidly degraded. If one can get a week or two of use out of, say, 100 ug, then at-home neuroregenerative therapy might be economically viable for middle class people; we would just need to buy one vial at a time, for several months.

 

My memory and sense of smell are noticeably better than a month ago. While I suppose that the olfactory improvement is probably due to direct contact with betaNGF, the memory improvement might be due to one of several things. Perhaps it's the betaNGF as well, the Aloha Medicinal's lion's mane, the niacin and niacinamide that I recently restarted, the methylcobalamin, the juice diet, or the MCT oil that I added to my juice. In truth, it's all of those things. The question, of course, is which one provided maximum bang for the buck. At this point, I don't know.

 

Some folks have PMed me indicating a willingness to try intranasal betaNGF. While I'm obviously not qualified to recommend doing so, I'm greatly encouraged by their courage. As the first person ever to try this, apparently, I only wish I could show them what I experienced. Words are simply inadequate. I hope that together we can create an effective therapy for cognitive repair based on science.

 

As to lion's mane, I've heard many people comment on their positive experiences with Fungi Perfecti. Indeed, in my own case, I blew the lights out at Lumosity when I first started taking it. But then the effect sort of faded into the background. It was only a few days ago, when I switched to the same amount of Aloha, that I really noticed an improvement in my everyday (non-Lumosity) memory performance. But this is complicated by the other changes listed above. So it would be irresponsible of me to declare that Aloha is superior. All I would suggest is, try some. If it works, they offer bulk pricing for like $0.11/g, USDA organic.

 

But, to your point about feeling a strong effect on the first day, I wouldn't be surprised if that was just another example of early-phase NGF action -- a neural stem cell "wakeup call", as it were, which has nothing immediately to do with neurite outgrowth or neuroregeneration. Anyone who has not experienced this would call it obvious placebo. I beg to differ.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 29 August 2015 - 04:47 AM.

[curious_george]

ive been taking 1ug per day for about a week now of betaNGF and can confirm that my memory has improved and my concentration has improved a lot... interesting you mentioned sense of smell is increased as mine has too.. absolutely zero uncomfortable effects - all positive thus far.. I didn't think much of it until I read your post there..  so far so good here  oh and yeah - i too had a good experience on Day 1 - i wasn't expecting to notice anything really for a while but I am happy to say it seems to work well right out of the gate..  i should mention that i am not taking anything else that would magnify or interfere with it in any way... I take my daily vitamins and I take a very healthy dose of epitalon aka agag along with a couple other telomere lengthening products...  I'll post an update once a month or so as long as I remember....  and I don't think that will be an issue haha

Edited by positiveeddy, 29 August 2015 - 06:45 AM.

[normalizing]

so betaNGF seems easily obtainable now that i see two people purchasing it freely and using it regularly? i guess i missed the link in the thread where the source was....

[curious_george]

http://www.sinobiolo...tein-g-454.html

 

there you go

 

they ship it really quick too... i was impressed coming from China i think it showed up here in 2 days or 3 days..

Edited by positiveeddy, 29 August 2015 - 08:27 AM.

[Keizo]

 

 

So one thing this proves is that, even if the betaNGF is the cause, then my previous experience with it was due to early phase cell signalling (probably NSC or astrocyte activation), as opposed to a structural brain change; otherwise, the same capability should have been available last night. This would be consistent with what is known about this sort of therapy from animal and human trials, namely, that it acts over weeks or months, following an initial "wake up" signal.

 

 

Just thought I'd mention a similar thing happened to me with Cerebrolysin. Some of the initial few doses caused greatly increased visualization, and a bit of what could be called hallucinations (shapes in the dark morphing to unnatural degrees). And I thought cere might be used to re-create my synesthesia permanently, though that didn't happen. Such "profound" effects did not last, but it still is a great drug.

Edited by Keizo, 29 August 2015 - 11:08 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Just quickly, as though we needed more evidence that (1) intranasal administration can enhance brain uptake in a manner superior to intravenous delivery and (2) low doses of potent compounds can sometimes be more effective than higher doses, here you go.

 

I apologise for disappearing for a while. I was injured over the weekend and have been recovering. I have more to say, but no time right now...

[resveratrol_guy]

ive been taking 1ug per day for about a week now of betaNGF and can confirm that my memory has improved and my concentration has improved a lot... interesting you mentioned sense of smell is increased as mine has too.. absolutely zero uncomfortable effects - all positive thus far.. I didn't think much of it until I read your post there..  so far so good here  oh and yeah - i too had a good experience on Day 1 - i wasn't expecting to notice anything really for a while but I am happy to say it seems to work well right out of the gate..  i should mention that i am not taking anything else that would magnify or interfere with it in any way... I take my daily vitamins and I take a very healthy dose of epitalon aka agag along with a couple other telomere lengthening products...  I'll post an update once a month or so as long as I remember....  and I don't think that will be an issue haha

 

This is good news, although obviously neither of us is a blinded participant. Please share what you learn, good and bad.

 

My current thinking is that 100 ug dissolved in 20 or so mL of nasal saline is superior to 20 ug dissolved in the same amount of saline simply on account of less stress to the nasal tissues relative to the dose delivered to the forebrain, but balanced against the high cost and supposedly rapid denaturing rate. Based on your link, am I correct in assuming that this is your current dose size (and saline size)?

 

BTW I went to some extraordinary lengths to heal the minor head injury I mentioned above. While I would say that it worked as far as I can tell, I have not experienced the betaNGF level of vizualization described above, since my last dose.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 02 September 2015 - 11:56 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

 

 

 

So one thing this proves is that, even if the betaNGF is the cause, then my previous experience with it was due to early phase cell signalling (probably NSC or astrocyte activation), as opposed to a structural brain change; otherwise, the same capability should have been available last night. This would be consistent with what is known about this sort of therapy from animal and human trials, namely, that it acts over weeks or months, following an initial "wake up" signal.

 

 

Just thought I'd mention a similar thing happened to me with Cerebrolysin. Some of the initial few doses caused greatly increased visualization, and a bit of what could be called hallucinations (shapes in the dark morphing to unnatural degrees). And I thought cere might be used to re-create my synesthesia permanently, though that didn't happen. Such "profound" effects did not last, but it still is a great drug.

 

 

Interesting. If I'm not mistaken, it's dopamine which drives vizualization. However, again, vizualization is distinct from hallucination in the sense that in the latter case, the individual mistakes mental visions for reality while awake. This did not occur with betaNGF. If anything, I would say that my processing of real world visual data improved. But as with cerebrolysin, I would not expect these effects to persist beyond the initial neural stem cell signalling phase. (But what do I know? I've only taken a few doses, so I'm waiting to see what other brave souls report.)
 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 02 September 2015 - 11:53 AM.