13 replies to this topic

[Groundhog Day]

I am desperate for some help and direction in a severally fragmented state. I have had chronic insomnia for 14 years, last 7 have been 4 hour average with many nights of 2-3 hours. Staying asleep has always been the bigger problem. Falling asleep has been manageable via reading and good sleep hygeniene, but only works maybe 85% of the time. 

 

I went on an Autoimmune Paleo diet several weeks ago, which is paleo diet minus eggs, nuts, seeds.  Diet appeared to be going well but after 2 weeks something weird happened....I started to doze off and experienced a surge of energy, like a switch, essentially, and I was up….. for the entire week. After 4 completely sleepless nights, I slept lightly for several hours.  Then it restarted and the next night I was up again. There is no sleep pressure and night feels like day and vice versa. After 3 sleepless nights I jumped ship with the diet and began eating a high carb diet again. 

 

Other symptoms during this period: head sweating at night (hyperhidrosis) with my head breaking out in sweat at night. I’ll start to dooze off, but will wake immediately up and my forehead will be leaking. 

 

Lack of appetite. Slight burning sensation on my skin. Frequent urination at times. The only consistent symptoms are the night sweats and the complete insomnia. 

 

If you research complete insomnia you come across morvan’s syndrome (autoimmune) and fatal famial insomnia (genetic and sporadic variants) and people with severally damaged thalamus. 

 

I had a concussion 2.5 years ago and suspect it likely plays a role here. 

 

I have no idea if what I have done is reversible or not.

What should I do here? I have no medical insurance, I’m trying to get temporary insurance. 

 

My blood sugar is rising. Fasting is around 110.  Typically 80-90. 

 

Theory- the diet I was on, had certain foods: sardines, turkey, bone broth, I now know are very high in glutamates. The ketogenic diet is said to better balance excess glutamates: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2367001/

 

 

Should this be my next step, what should I do? 

 

I am trying to put together a healthy brain stack. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Groundhog Day, 02 August 2014 - 11:01 PM.

[Flex]

Abolish any of these diets immediately.

Have You enough money to buy You sleeping pills ?

Do You asked allready at the Pharmacy for something ?

 

If for any reason not, then:

 

- Buy Doxylamine and/or Mitrazepine.

 

-Then buy something with Melissa Lemon Balm like: Nature's Way Melissa Lemon Balm Capsules.

Dont matter what manufacturer aslong its an extract and not just a weak herbal powder.

Some Lemon Blam prdoucts contain also Melatonine.

Which is even better.

 

- Optionally a Kava kava  product like:

Natural Balance Kava Kava Root Extract, 60-Count

 

- For the case that You will get a desensitation of the gaba receptors in the following nights through the gabaergics,

Buy simple Aminoacids which contains vitamins like:

Twinlab Amino Fuel 1000 Body Building Amino Acids

-------------------------------------------------

 

Mitrazepin can be a bitch, so dont buy something like a orodispersible tablet.

Look instead for something that is slow releasing !

Otherwise You could/maybe stay awake.

Therefore, ask the pharmacy for slow releasing or maybe coated tablets ?.

They must know what fromula releases it slower

 

Take then right away 30mg or 45mg respectively.

Or just the whole tablet and maybe one of the Lemonbalm (200mg)

 

For safety reasons, Wait then 1.30 hours.

If this isnt sufficent, then take more of the the gaba and other stuff. but of course not to much !

So rather step by step, or Hour by Hour

No one wants that You stop to breathing while sleep or what else.. dunno

It would be good if You are not sleeping alone, so somebody can watching You

Btw: the Maximum of Mitrazepine is officially 45mg, but regarding a abstract, mine and medievils experience is sometimes 90mg, for a healthy person, Ok.

 

Doxylamine is also ok, but the onset is slower.

Dont combine Mitrazepine with Doxylamine this is irresponsible and not needed.

 

Edit:

The Dosage for Doxylamine is 50mg.

regarding this drug forum You can dose it to 100 mg

http://www.drugs-for...ead.php?t=83894

 

But I would rather stick with Mitrazepine, even if its a adrenergic a2 antagonist.

- This comes usually with the time and not immediately

- From my view, the effectivity, so the antihistamine blocking effect is stronger

 

Please notice me if it worked or if You have any questions

Edited by Flex, 03 August 2014 - 12:17 AM.

[StevesPetRat]

By how much did you increase your protein intake? Ammonia may be out of whack from increased glutamine metabolism and protein digestion.
See early symptoms here: http://www.nlm.nih.g...icle/000302.htm
See also ammonia homeostasis here:
http://en.m.wikipedi...glutamine_cycle
Low carbs also means less serotonin and typically more dopamine, norepinephrine, and adrenaline.
I had a hell of a time on low carb, but if my doc is right and I have an autoimmune thing going on, I guess I'll be joining you on that diet...

Anyway these are just my guesses, either ammonia or serotonin/dopamine imbalance. I don't think you have to worry about the conditions you have in bold. You could also add some P5P to increase GABA synthesis, though it's not always as harmless as everyone says: http://www.longecity...ity-from-p-5-p/

Hope you get some good sleep. Insomnia blows goats in hell.

[Synchro]

I feel for you, bro.  Have had the same battle, but not as bad as yours...and the prospect that yours may be caused by previous trauma is sobering indeed.

 

I do not recommend anything cuz I can't, really, except I'm just gonna tell you what I do, and you can add it to your list of things to consider with your doc.

 

some nights I resort to phenergan. generic name promethazine. old drug for nausea, works great, it also causes drowsiness and a good sleep. I personally find 50 mg, a standard tablet size, knocks me out and I have a hangover the next day. I then start nibbling it down until I am taking just 5 or 10 mg (nibble off a tiny bit LOL) which I park in my cheek and go off to dream land. Not a safe drug for constant use or for many years, but very useful when you're desperate. It is actually a very mild anti-psychotic; it reduces dopamine production, which your dopaminergic cells in your brain stem are supposed to be doing themselves to put you to sleep; when they won't stop making dopamine, you can't go to sleep.

 

I also have used xanax to get to sleep, but it's a super dangerous drug, AND NOT FOR YOU AT ALL. I just include it here for intellectual completeness. again, I would start with a modest dose, like 0.5 mg, then each subsequent night reduce the dose until I'm nibbling off the tiniest grain I can and cheek-parking it. this works great for some people, and terrible for most: the hangover effect the next day can really mess you up, and all the benzo's screw up memory retention - you'll find yourself in a daze daily trying to remember what the heck you were doing the day before, I'm not kidding. 

 

the bottom line is there are no truly good sleep drugs, just ones that aren't as bad as the rest. I don't recommend any of the other drugs, like ambient or remeron, at all...at all. THE VERY WORST DAY OF MY LIFE, AND I'VE HAD SOME DOOZIES OF BAD DAYS, WAS THE DAY AFTER I TOOK REMERON - WOW, WHAT A CRAP DRUG. 

 

the earlier post that included kava-kava and lemon balm, etc, may be of more use to you. It might be good to know that kava-kava is really a natural, mild anti-psychotic just like promethazine, so if you don't have a doc willing to work with you to Rx promethazine, you can use kava-kava for precisely the same effect. A great example of something natural that actually works just like a particular drug class but most people have no idea.

 

Now that I'm writing this, I'm going to see if I can get a good effect with the following formula - this is not a recommendation, I'm just telling you what I am doing, an insomniac terrified of a sleepless night:

 

not sure of doses yet, just the general idea:

kava-kava

melatonin (probably 12 mg)

lemon balm (400 mg)

 

hmmmmm, I'll see how that works....BTW, I always, always take melatonin, no matter what else i'm taking.

 

Very Best, Synchro

[Groundhog Day]

I am amazingly not dead. What saved my life is MCT oil. I was starting to experiment with taking different stuff but when I added MCT oil I was somehow able to fall asleep, and slept for two 2-3 hours blocks.

 

It won't let me post the link but there is a very interesting article titled 'Your Brain on Ketones' that discusses neurotoxicity.  I've only been taking 1tbsp a day because it's so rough on my stomach and im already constipated but I think I should be taking more.

 

Flex- I'm going to try to get some Lunesta this week. Thank you for suggesting Doxylamine. I've never used it but seems like it may be worth trying. I will also look into lemon balm extract. I've used it in tea before but not the extract. Thank you for your suggestions.

 

Steves- I increased protein by probably 10% and fat by 10-15%. I need to look into p5p, thank you.

 

Synchro- thanks for your thoughts. I tried kava kava years ago (tincture) and it did nothing for me...I think it actually made my sleep more fragmented.

Edited by Groundhog Day, 04 August 2014 - 03:02 PM.

[Flex]

I´m glad if I can Help.

 

Nevertheless try to look after to normalizing the sleep to 7-8 h.

Remeron is a hammer and You are the next morning blown for nearly the whole day,

but I find it good for "emergency cases" as well the Z-drugs.

But Z-drugs can go wrong, if mixed through desensitisation. If this appear, You will even harder fall asleep.

Because I´ve mixed once zopiclon with tetrazepam and couldnt slept more than 4 h the next 2 Days.

 

Keep in mind to do not overdose Doxylamine

See:

http://www.drugs-for...ead.php?t=83894

...It can also eat at one's sanity at high doses. OD'ing on doxylamine is just as bad as OD'ing on diphenhydramine: it is potentially fatal and requires ER care for IV administration of barbiturate anti-convulsive's to treat uncontrollable muscle shocks that contort face and send arm, legs and even head jerking in all directions, or a back gets "locked" in arched position, teeth clenched, making the victim look like a human bridge...

[Synchro]

MCT!!!! Yes, and MCT's along with clarified butter are fabulous for treating brain injury.

 

Treating major brain trauma victims in comas with MCT's is resulting in them waking up after 6 months with very little deficits..................wowowowowowow

 

I would advise you to up your daily dose of MCT's considerably, and to consider clarified butter as well (Ghee).

 

If you're eating dairy, there's no point in clarified butter - just add real butter.  If you wake up to how dairy is an addiction, and that casein is a terribly inflammatory protein good for neither man nor beast, and get off casein in all it's forms (cheeses, protein powders cheapened with "milk protein", milk, etc), then you'll want to use clarified butter, where the casein has been removed.

 

For MCT's, you can just take good old organic non-refined coconut oil. Sprouts has it, Trader Joe's has it, heck, even Walmart has it now.

 

What I do instead of taking it by the spoonful: I cook with it, baby. Everything. French fries in coconut oil, pie crust with it, cakes and cookies with it, if I fry chicken or lamb I fry it in a pool of coconut oil, if I have a piece of toast or a waffle i put coconut oil on it, you can't tell it from butter, and I put both coconut oil and clarified butter on my popcorn OMIGOD IT'S SO GOOD, the list is endless....

 

but in your case you should probably just take it by the spoonful......  

 

Very Best, Synchro

 

PS: whey protein, pure, organic, is good fer ya - antiinflammatory and immune boosting. Just don't buy cheap crap that has "milk protein" or "casein" listed, cuz that just undoes all the good of the whey, they're only putting it in there to cheapen the product and lower the price. Pay the high price and get the good stuff. Amazon and Vitacost both have pure organic whey powders that are wunnnnnnnnnnnnnderfulllllllllllllllllllllll

 

PPS: I forgot to mention clonidine. I take clonidine 0.2 mg at bedtime religiously, no matter what else I'm taking, it really helps with STAYING asleep by blocking adrenergic (adrenalin, actually noradrenaline) stimulation of the brain during sleep.

[Flex]

Yes, this diet seems to be not good for You and maybe You need a time to rest and sleep.

Just a suggestion, nothing more.

 

[teebos]

agree with flex

[Groundhog Day]

So I had some strange (but good) things happen to me the last few days. I slept nearly 5 hours 3 nights ago and then 5 straight hours with another hour or so of light sleep 2 nights ago.  That would be the most I have slept in nearly a decade. I feel it is from increased GABA that I started feeling last week during my sleepless episodes. Even after 4 nights of no sleep, I was unusually calm, breathing regularly.  That seems to have carried over and then the Ketones in the MCT oil are doing something to aid my brain. I am trying to up them as fast as I can. I am trying to follow a low glutamate diet as well, and it's naturally lower carbohydrate. 

 

Last night I slept very poorly but I can attribute that to accidentally ingesting some acai berries with guarana- which I guess is very similar to caffeine. I had a fraction of it but it was enough to keep me awake. 

 

[Groundhog Day]

bump.

 

So i've been consuming a moderate carb diet without MCT oil (stomach) the last few months and was doing quite well until all of a sudden I got sick last week (possibly flu) and stopped sleeping completely again. I'm a little worried because last time I could attribute this strange physical condition (zero sleep, night sweeting, anxiety) to the low-carb diet and shutting down or lowering already low serotonin production.

 

In fact, I've been eating sweets about an hour after a protein heavy meal the last few months to shuttle tryphtophan and increase serotonin with great results, relaxed breathing, cold hands and feet often warm up, and sleep is better.

 

There's an interesting article though linking this type of diet manipulation to mental illness:

 

http://www.wellnessr...mental_illness/

 

Anyway, I'm on my last legs here...haven't slept in 3 nights and I'm wondering what I can do. Will start MCT oil again tonight or tomorrow as I feel that may have played a role the first time this happened, last summer.

[Ames]

You'll likely have to always cycle solutions. 

 

In my experience, anything taken before sleep will invariably cause degraded sleep quality over time. You have to take solutions either during the day of when you awake with insomnia.

 

9 p.m. should be your bedtime deadline. Anything after, and you risk throwing your chemistry off in a manner that promotes insomnia. In addition, these earlier sleeping hours are the msot valuable in terms of sleep quality.

 

Not watching TV or using the computer an hour before bed, and reading, will better assure proper brain chemistry upon going to bed (reduces excitement, promotes the natural circadian depletion of sugar in the brain as it moves toward the sleep cycle.)

 

Creatine, fully dissolved in warm water, reduces glutamate. Take it in the morning.

 

A few grains of L-Lysine acts as a non-addictive barbituate like substance. Though, too  much will cause vasoconstriction. Be sure to take only a dusting on your fingertip if trying to sleep (my experience). There is also likely some tolerance to the barbituate effect, and it isn't really too reliable for your purposes after the first couple of uses, but its a good solution to keep in mind in a cycle. It also reduces anxiety.

 

NSAIDs will often reduce body wide inflammation to the point of giving you your extra 3-4 hours sleep if you need it. Take them when you awake with insomnia and as needed. I recommend acetaminophen (used sparingly - I prefer Excedrin) and ibuprofen. Aspirin, on its own and at the increased dose required when not combined, makes my blood feel too thin.

 

Magnesium threonate knocks me out, but its always a mid day nap roughly 6-8 hours after I take it in the morning. Take 5-10 mg. I wouldn't rely on it as a PRN solution, but rather as one used to inhibit too much neurochemical stimulation as an ongoing approach.

 

Take your monunstaturated or saturated fat solution when you wake up with insomnia (but never with anything else on this list as it will dramatically increase absorption - you don't want that), or in the morning, and not before bed. This advice is from 15 years of me toying with fat in my diet to aid in insomnia and neuroinflammatory issues.

 

I've toyed with every manner of herb, but in the end I'm not a fan because they are too dirty in their actions and adulterants.

 

Sometimes, to defeat insomnia, I simply have to get up and read. Or even eat a full breakfast.

 

Keeping your overall stress and inflammation down will do the most to promote sleep. For me, keeping television and computer use to a minimum is key to that, but I'm also sensitive to fluorescent lights to the same effect.

 

 

Edited by golgi1, 31 March 2017 - 07:39 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

l-theanine for sleep quality, 0.3mg of melatonin (but no more) for getting to sleep. Works like a charm, great sleep.

[xeon]

Could potentially try Gotu Kola. Sometimes this stuff has a mild sedative effect with no rebound effects like anxiety, etc. (for me at least, and I'm sensitive).

 

I just saw this thread for the first time..

but since it's been a couple of years can you give us an update on your insomnia situation?