13 replies to this topic

[Cosma]

I've been suffering from numerous painfull symptoms for the last 10 years or so.

I fit the diagnosis of fibromyalgia, CFS (Chronic fatigue syndrome) and IBS (Irritable bowel syndrome) which means i have constant muscle pain, gut issues and some neurologic symptoms like irritability, anxiety, insomnia, brain fog and headaches to name a few.

 

The doctors are pretty helpless at that point and i have became a human test lab over the years, like many others in my condition.

I'll spare you the full details on the drugs and supplements I have tried over the years, but some of them were SSRI's, NRI's, Benzo's, Anticonvulsant's, Nootropics, Anticholinergic's, pro cholinergics, and pretty much every supplement that i thought might help.

 

During my "experiments" one thing that became very clear to me was that any drug or supplement that directly or indirectly raises acetylcholine, made my symptoms 10x worse (i literaly felt like im dying).

Some of the substences that made me feel like that were Lecithin, Nefiracetam, Galantamine, Pramiracetam Nicotine, Alpha GPC...

 

It is very clear to me that overexpression of the cholinergic system has alot to do with my symptoms, so i researched on the subject, as to why and how does one's cholinergic system gets so out of control, and my main suspect is pestisides, mainly organophosphates.

 

from wikipedia:

"organophosphates" refers to a group of insecticides or nerve agents acting on the enzyme acetylcholinesterase, Many organophosphates are potent nerve agents, functioning by inhibiting the action of acetylcholinesterase (AChE) in nerve cells.  Organophosphorus pesticides can be absorbed by all routes, including inhalation, ingestion, and dermal absorption. Their inhibitory effect they have on the acetylcholinesterase enzyme leads to a pathologic excess of acetylcholine in the body.

 

My next goal is to get my hands on Pralidoxime or Obidoxime which are used to combat poisoning by organophosphates to see if my theory is correct.

Can anyone help me find a good source to one of these?

 

I also plan to go on an organic diet, which provides a dramatic and immediate protective effect against exposures to organophosphorus pesticides that are commonly used in agricultural production.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24769399

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16451864

 

 

 

Edited by Cosma, 21 September 2014 - 09:26 AM.

[rwac]

Have you tried simpler things like Benadryl or other anti-cholinergics ?

[niner]

Cosma, FM/CFS conditions are characterized by an excessive level of reactive oxygen species.  You've probably tried various "antioxidants" over the years, but today we have some that are in a completely different league.  (catalytic, mitochondrially targeted)  I'd recommend C60 olive oil as the best choice (get it at carbon60oliveoil.com or Vaughter Wellness) or MitoQ as a second option.

 

An organic diet won't hurt, but I don't have a lot of hope for the organophosphate hypothesis.

[Nemo888]

Did you try the basics? Elimination diet and food allergy tests(I know but they are better than nothing).

[Cosma]

Have you tried simpler things like Benadryl or other anti-cholinergics ?

 

I have tried some, but most of them are also anti-histamine and they make me feel like s@#t.

[Cosma]

Did you try the basics? Elimination diet and food allergy tests(I know but they are better than nothing).

 

Yes i have tried everything in the book regarding elimination diet (fructose, gluten, dairy, FODMAP, low carb, protein only, you name it...), some of them worked to some degree, but they all ultimatly failed to make a significant impovement of my condition that will make them worth doing.

 

I have done a food allergy test, all came back negative.

Edited by Cosma, 23 September 2014 - 01:20 AM.

[Cosma]

I have found yet another "suspect".

It is an herbicide named "Glyphosate".

"glyphosate could disrupt gut bacteria, suppress the CYP enzyme class, and likely impair suphate transport, thereby inducing disease. One of the roles of CYP enzymes is to detoxify xenobiotics (foreign chemicals found in a living organism). This means that glyphosate could effectively enhance the damaging effects of other food-borne chemical residues and environmental toxins. According to the authors, the medical conditions to which glyphosate could plausibly contribute to include inflammatory bowel disease, obesity, depression, ADHD, autism, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, ALS, multiple sclerosis, cancer, cachexia, infertility, and developmental malformations." 

 

http://articles.merc...-herbicide.aspx

http://www.biosafety...cle.php?aid=994

Edited by Cosma, 23 September 2014 - 01:10 AM.

[niner]

I have found yet another "suspect".

It is an herbicide named "Glyphosate".

"glyphosate could disrupt gut bacteria, suppress the CYP enzyme class, and likely impair suphate transport, thereby inducing disease. One of the roles of CYP enzymes is to detoxify xenobiotics (foreign chemicals found in a living organism). This means that glyphosate could effectively enhance the damaging effects of other food-borne chemical residues and environmental toxins. According to the authors, the medical conditions to which glyphosate could plausibly contribute to include inflammatory bowel disease, obesity, depression, ADHD, autism, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, ALS, multiple sclerosis, cancer, cachexia, infertility, and developmental malformations."

 

These are based on high-dose in vitro studies that are not relevant to human exposures, unless you're picking up a bottle of roundup and drinking it.  Try C60-oo.

[StevesPetRat]

That's one of many possibilities I considered trying to figure out what the hell happened to me several months ago, but as time passes it seems less and less likely. Do you have excessive salivation, sweating, high body temp, etc.? Probably not, in fact I would guess you are more likely to have the opposite.

 

Regardless, you may want to try, in addition to the usual CFS supplement stew:

epsom salt baths, 400 - 600 g per bath, soak 1 hr per day for a while, sulfates are important for phase 2 liver detox besides of course the magnesium

cal/mag butyrate

MSM, a good high purity crystal form, 2 - 10 g / day

Lactoferrin

A severely restricted diet -- I ate nothing but bison meat (500 g / day), white rice (100 g dry / day), 2 heads of boiled iceberg lettuce, and enough ghee to make up the calorie gap for several weeks and started getting my energy back. This diet eliminates histamine (if the meat is fresh), salicylates, oxalates, phytate, almost all lectins (white rice has very little), and hopefully boiling the lettuce reduces its saponins. If you find that you need histamine to stay awake, you can just let the meat sit for several days in the fridge before eating it.

and c60oo for cryin' out loud.

 

Good luck!

Edit: also, LDN is cheap and may help. Also, how are your Vit D levels??

Edited by StevesPetRat, 24 September 2014 - 01:30 AM.

[Shame Wolf]

Cosma, I too have fibro. Is there another place or channel where or through which we can talk?

[niner]

Cosma, I too have fibro. Is there another place or channel where or through which we can talk?

 

You can talk here.  People might benefit from your discussions.

[Shame Wolf]

I don intend to have a discussion here, but I want to keep talking afterwards.

 

Hey, Cosma, where are you?

[StevesPetRat]

Huh, I dunno if OP is still around but this is interesting. Stress causes long lasting symptoms of AChE inhibition. No pesticides needed.
http://www.nature.co...l/393373a0.html

[Tinply]

 

I have found yet another "suspect".

It is an herbicide named "Glyphosate".

"glyphosate could disrupt gut bacteria, suppress the CYP enzyme class, and likely impair suphate transport, thereby inducing disease. One of the roles of CYP enzymes is to detoxify xenobiotics (foreign chemicals found in a living organism). This means that glyphosate could effectively enhance the damaging effects of other food-borne chemical residues and environmental toxins. According to the authors, the medical conditions to which glyphosate could plausibly contribute to include inflammatory bowel disease, obesity, depression, ADHD, autism, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, ALS, multiple sclerosis, cancer, cachexia, infertility, and developmental malformations."

 

These are based on high-dose in vitro studies that are not relevant to human exposures, unless you're picking up a bottle of roundup and drinking it.  Try C60-oo.

 

 

Sorry for replying in an older thread. What are the known possible effects of C60, if any? Both positive and negative. I've heard about this substance before for fibromyalgia but haven't tried it yet. I'm 32 weeks pregnant or I'd try it now, but I don't feel safe taking something that hasn't been thoroughly tested for pregnancy. I'm more than willing to give it a shot after birth, though.

 

I'm having fibro "flares" this pregnancy. All the pain syndromes of pregnancy, from headaches, to back pain, to RLP and SPD, I'm feeling very intensely.

 

Thanks.