162 replies to this topic

[VICREP]

Hi Guys. Need your advice.

 

I have been diagnosed with ADHD, primarily inattentive. I have an extremely short attention span, anhedonia towards to rewarding tasks, extremely low motivation,and I'm very easily distracted.

 

I legitimately cannot focus. It is at a point where it is degrading my quality of life and ruining my academic potential.

 

I have been Rx'd dextroamphetamine and have pretty much weaned myself off them. Being the stubborn person I am, I didn't want to believe I actually have ADHD, and have tried to 'manage' the problem with nootropics.

 

Racetams, fishoil, tianeptine, and a heap of vitamins and minerals, have all helped with my stress, memory and creativity, but I still cannot focus or pay sustained attention to anything.

 

I would run back to my dextroamphetamine script but I'm worried that it was causing hairloss, and undesirable brain changes. I feel as if I'm out of options, since caffeine, bupropion, and modafinil don't help me at all.

 

I'm thinking of biting the bullet and trying methyphenidate. Here are some key question of concern I have.

 

1) Is it dangerous if I use ritalin at low-moderate doses, no more then 5 days per week?

 

2) Any advice on how to reduce/prevent toxicity? I'm think daily vitamin C and magnesium (memantine is not an option, messes with my memory)

 

3) Can I take racetams on my off days?

 

4) Is Tianeptine a safe option for methyphenidate comedowns? I have used Ritalin before and the comedowns are something I would like to avoid

 

Thanks guys

 

 

 

 

[Michael Rian]

I am in the same boat as you, as far as issues go.  I was recently prescribed Vyvanse for adult ADHD, I used it for 3 days and gave up since it made me so tired and sore.  I am also very interested in Methylphenidate, which I have a prescription for, and will be trying it out tomorrow.  I hope it goes well.  I dont have much to offer your thread other than a friendly bump and to wish you all the best with your struggles!  I really do feel your pain regarding extremely short attention span, anhedonia towards to rewarding tasks, extremely low motivation ect.  It is horrible! 

[VICREP]

I am in the same boat as you, as far as issues go. I was recently prescribed Vyvanse for adult ADHD, I used it for 3 days and gave up since it made me so tired and sore. I am also very interested in Methylphenidate, which I have a prescription for, and will be trying it out tomorrow. I hope it goes well. I dont have much to offer your thread other than a friendly bump and to wish you all the best with your struggles! I really do feel your pain regarding extremely short attention span, anhedonia towards to rewarding tasks, extremely low motivation ect. It is horrible!

Thanks michael. All the best to you.

I have also tried deprenyl by the way, which I forget to mention in my first post. It does nothing for my attention. I think I will dose it at 1.25mg a few times week though just for the health benefits

[Mind_Paralysis]

I recommend all of you checking out my ADHD-thread here on the forums. I try to gather most pertinent information regarding ADHD there.

 

http://www.longecity...ception-thread/

 

As for treating ADHD tho' - my foremost recommendation is to do a GENE-TEST over on 23andme.com, and then report back with the results. Certain genetic errors give different variations of ADHD, and once you know which variation you truly have, then you can medicate accordingly, since different medication are better tolerated by different variations of ADHD.

 

And if you happen to have one of the more common gene-errors... "DRD4 7R allele" - then you probably have an error with your D4 dopamine-receptors. If that's the case, then the research-chemical A-412,997 WILL correct the problem!

 

With far less side-effects than Methylphenidate and Amphetamine -RUBBISH.

Read more about A-412,997 here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-412,997

 

 

And then go over to the fasoracetam -thread, and read up on that compound. It's a racetam currently in serious research for treating ADHD.

 

http://www.longecity...e-6#entry691137

 

Faso appears to increase focus, decrease depression, and improve motivation. The results varies quite a  bit tho', but in general, the side-effects are much, much milder than stimulants - it won't f*ck you up in the same way they do.

 

[Peder Holdgaard Pedersen]

How is your general health and if I may ask, psychological, well-being? ADHD is a bunch of symptoms - the underlying cause, or causes, have not yet been identified. Do not focus on the ADHD label. Focus on your symptoms.

You mention 

* short attention span
* anhedonia towards to rewarding tasks
* extremely low motivation,
* very easily distracted.

The first sounds like lack of motivation. Being attentive requires motivation. Which is also your third point.
Distraction sounds like lack of mental energy. If you have no mental energy, you will fail to inhibit your natural tendency to react to everything around you.
Anhedonia sounds depression - I believe this is how the brain forces us to not expend energy. If you nothing is enjoyable, you will not do anything, and your brain and body has more energy for whatever it wants it for.

When you take dexedrine, you are taking energy away from your body and subconscious/automatic parts of your brain. You might have lost hair and experienced unpleasant side-effects because your body needed that metabolic energy for the immune system and managing stuff in your brain.

If you do not have enough metabolic energy to fuel your brain - you must find it somewhere. Eating more doesn't usually work - since the body will refuse to upregulate your metabolism if you are depressed and anhedonic. 

You might have repressed thoughts/memories/trauma that is requiring massive amount of energy to contain. How do you react to alcohol? How is your emotional state after intoxication? How do you react to stress? Are you easily stressed? Any anxiety? You mention that your supplements have helped on your stress levels - but try to dig deep and ask yourself if that is really true, or whether your are convincing yourself the memory, attention and motivation are your only issues. Sometimes managing stress well can manifest as lower energy for everything else - you spend tons of energy trying to not be stressed, and there is nothing left for your motivation.

I assume you are not exercising since you have no motivation. Forcing yourself to 30 minutes of high-intensity training every second day would be a worthwhile experiment. Fasting is also worth trying. 

How are your teeth and your skin? Do you have allergies, migraine, digestive issues? Metabolic issues? Anything which could be robbing your brain of energy. 

Also, and this is kind of stupid, but I have to mention it still, a broken heart would manifest in the ways you describe.

Bottom line - we only experience motivation when we have a surplus of energy. Most people do not need much motivation do go about their every day business - they only need to summon it via cortisol and other hormones when in an out of the ordinary situation, or one of the crisis points of the day if life is complicated. Stimulants will cheat your body into giving you that energy, but it comes from somewhere. If your ADHD is because your body is just bad at distributing energy, stimulants will fix it. Many "normal" people need a cup of coffee to distribute energy. If your issue is that something is requiring all your energy, diverting it to your brain will just make you sick or crazy.

There is a solution to your issue - I highly doubt you lack the ability to be motivated, attentive and feel enjoyment. You need to figure out where you energy is going, and plug the hole. I sincerely believe that if dexedrine has horrible side-effects, no nootropic or stimulant will fix anything. If they have mild effects, you will not feel any benefit - if they strong benefits, something else is being deprived of energy. Try methylphenidate as it has a different pharmacological profile than dexedrine, and if your issue is just a neurotransmitter issue, it might help. But my gut feeling is that it won't. 

[medicineman]

how much modafinil did you take? I am surprised it didn't help.

[VICREP]

I tried modafinil at varying dosages, 100-300mg if I remember correctly. It did work to an extent but not as effective as traditional stimulants like dex and ritalin.

I should expand a bit more. My anhedonia is not just for cognitive tasks, but neatly all aspects of life including socialising, sex, recreational activities, exercise, etc. I have given it time but it's like I'm constantly going through the motions with everything in life. I don't feel depressed, so to speak, I suppose it could be dysthymia.

Anyway, given my symptoms and experimentation, serotoninergic drugs probably aren't going to help me. I guess I don't have many options since the most medications targeting dopamine seem to worsen the problem in the long run.

[VICREP]

I felt guilty taking my Rx dextroamphetamine because I felt as if I was taking the easy way out. But the more I read about DA and it's role in anhedonia and ADHD symptoms, the more I'm beginning to think that it's probably the right treatment for me since it essentially fixes 90% of my symptoms.

My avoidant behaviour is literally preventing me from even scraping my true potential. I have a reasons key high academic potential, but have no self-confidence, motivation, or attention to apply my raw ability.

Does anyone have any insight into augmenting stimulant therapy with tianeptine for controlling some of the mood/anxiety problems that commonly accompany stimulant treatment?

[lourdaud]

I felt guilty taking my Rx dextroamphetamine because I felt as if I was taking the easy way out. But the more I read about DA and it's role in anhedonia and ADHD symptoms, the more I'm beginning to think that it's probably the right treatment for me since it essentially fixes 90% of my symptoms.

My avoidant behaviour is literally preventing me from even scraping my true potential. I have a reasons key high academic potential, but have no self-confidence, motivation, or attention to apply my raw ability.

Does anyone have any insight into augmenting stimulant therapy with tianeptine for controlling some of the mood/anxiety problems that commonly accompany stimulant treatment?

I'd try Focalin if I were you. If you're lucky it will be almost like Ritalin with lesser comedown!

[delon]

As for treating ADHD tho' - my foremost recommendation is to do a GENE-TEST over on 23andme.com, and then report back with the results

FYI 23andme no longer offers the test you're referring to. They are now basically a scam site.

[Michael Rian]

I just got home from my appointment with my Psychiatrist.  I will be trying Vyvanse, I tried it for 3 days before but i gave up.  This time I will be giving it a proper trial and see how it goes.  I gave it up because I thought it was making me sleepy and tired, but I think that was because of something else.  Anyways,  I hope the Vyvanse gives me some relief, I will let you know if it does.  Hope you start feeling better soon, keep on fighting, Best of luck,

 

 

[VICREP]

Ok so I'm having trouble settling on a final decision. I see my psychiatrist tomorrow and after being somewhat inspired by the response one longecity member had in this thread:
http://www.longecity...healed-my-mind/

I think I may stick with my dextroamphetaine script and try do a low dose, controlled trial, to see if I can perhaps permanently retire neural pathways in my brain. I understand that I will need to adhere to strict dosing, and behavioural patterns for thus to occur. But maybe this will be the key to jump starting me out of this sluggish, low motivation state I have somehow acquired through years of stress and avoidant behaviour.

[Michael Rian]

Ok so I'm having trouble settling on a final decision. I see my psychiatrist tomorrow and after being somewhat inspired by the response one longecity member had in this thread:
http://www.longecity...healed-my-mind/

I think I may stick with my dextroamphetaine script and try do a low dose, controlled trial, to see if I can perhaps permanently retire neural pathways in my brain. I understand that I will need to adhere to strict dosing, and behavioural patterns for thus to occur. But maybe this will be the key to jump starting me out of this sluggish, low motivation state I have somehow acquired through years of stress and avoidant behaviour.

 

I hope your appointment with your Psychiatrist goes well tomorrow, My meeting went rather well today.  Please try and give us an update when you have the time, I am very interested on how you proceed.  Again, Best of luck and I am sure whatever decision you land on, it will be the right one.  Cheers

[Metagene]

As for treating ADHD tho' - my foremost recommendation is to do a GENE-TEST over on 23andme.com, and then report back with the results

FYI 23andme no longer offers the test you're referring to. They are now basically a scam site.

23andme no longer offers health reports in the USA because of the FDA's concern with the potential consequences of inaccurate information being passed on to the public. However they still provide ancestry services and downloadable raw data files which can be imported into Promethease, myWobble, etc.

[VICREP]

Update:

 

I just go my usually script for dex from the psychiatrist. My plan is use a 10-20 mg 3-5 days per week, with racetams on days off. Fishoil, Magnesium, Vit D3, B complex, and Zinc daily.

 

Vit C after my dex begins to wear off

[eon]

I too am looking into ADHD treatment, possibly more natural or non prescription approach. Hopefully some essential oil for aromatherapy exist, perhaps cannabidiol as there claims to be great for a variety of ailments. I still have to do my research. I'm not sure anyone should be mixing their ritalin with the racetams, thinking too much of anything will be of help but actually no. Take it easy.

 

Looking back in my teens I had all the symptoms of ADHD yet I was diagnosed with psychotic disorder. The meds I was on for psychotic disorder did not help so it was a clear misdiagnosis. Had I been on more of a stimulant as it is said to be the best for ADHD and depression as well, I would have been feeling well throughout. Just wondering if amphetamines will keep me up when it's time to sleep or am I mistaking this for desoxyn (meth)? I'd like to try out some amphetamine to see if in fact it will work for me. Though I'd prefer something more natural and can be purchased without a prescription. Is PEA any good? 

 

Curious, does anyone here with ADHD even tried zinc as treatment, there is evidence of it working. 

 

"Zinc deficiency has been associated with inattentive symptoms and there is evidence that zinc supplementation can benefit children with ADHD who have low zinc levels.^[140] Iron, magnesium and iodine may also have an effect on ADHD symptoms.^[141] There is evidence of a modest benefit of omega 3 supplementation, but it is not recommended in place of traditional medication.^[142]"

 

^{http://en.wikipedia....tivity_disorder}

[VICREP]

@eon

I supplement daily within zinc and can't say it has an effect positive or negative on my in-attentiveness.

Anyway I have been a bit rushed lately, so I'll give an extended response of my current situation.

I told my psychiatrist the other day, that I tend to use the dex less than scripted, but he told me I would be better taking it regularly, long term (3 years). His rationale is that the brain of an inattentive person such as myself become clustered while off dex, and remains that way until consistently medicated. However, now that I'm back using dex I'm not sure it is the answer to my prays. It does reduce my irritability, inattentiveness, lack of motivation, etc, but I just cannot help but feel that I'm doing more damage then good, even at therapeutic doses. Plus I hate the highs and lows associated with dex, and the inevitable psychological dependence that comes with chronic dosing.

Additionally it still leaves an array of my symptoms untreated. I'm starting to believe I may have damaged my opioid system through recreation of oxycodone in the past, plus regular use of codeine for back pain. I do have this persistent feeling of aches and pains that usually contributes to my lack of motivation. Maybe something like LDN therapy may be applicable?

I want to take healing approach, to my mental heart, I really do. But what options do I have? My attention, organisation, motivation problems are ruining my relationships, my academic progress and my overall well-being. Normal daily activities leave me burnt out, I have lost interest in my past hobbies, I put things off because the thought of doing them makes me feel overwhelmed and somewhat nauseous.

Dex gets me to a level where I do these things. I don't take enough to feel euphoric, in fact sometimes it's a more dysphoric feeling than anything. It actually gives me a feeling of guilt for procrastinating when usually I would just say "f**k it, who cares", despite knowing their probably long term consequences.

Note that all cholinergic supplements worsen my anhedonia and mood even in minimal doses. Piracetam stabilises my made incredibly well surprisingly, and is the main reason I use it.

I'm at the point where I'm so lost that I literally feel I have next to no options left. Keep in mind I have true sustained abstinence I'm starting to think I need a to make a big move. I have been considering ibogaine and have been discussing it with an iboga therapist here in Australia.

Please chime in if you think you have advice

[eon]

i've heard of Ibogaine but am unfamiliar with it. I've tried psilocybin mushrooms for anxiety, etc. and I think it worked. Not sure if it does anything else with other conditions. 

 

Since iboga is an NMDA receptor antagonist, who not try something in the same class of compound or drug? I can't think of one at the moment.

Edited by eon, 12 October 2014 - 07:25 AM.

[VICREP]

i've heard of Ibogaine but am unfamiliar with it. I've tried psilocybin mushrooms for anxiety, etc. and I think it worked. Not sure if it does anything else with other conditions.

Since iboga is an NMDA receptor antagonist, who not try something in the same class of compound or drug? I can't think of one at the moment.

Iboga is much more than an NMDA antagonist. It's a single dose treatment, something I would use to try 'reset' my brain so to speak. I have tried memantine before as well. Couldn't stand the memory impairment and dissociation

[Peder Holdgaard Pedersen]

@eon

I supplement daily within zinc and can't say it has an effect positive or negative on my in-attentiveness.

Anyway I have been a bit rushed lately, so I'll give an extended response of my current situation.

I told my psychiatrist the other day, that I tend to use the dex less than scripted, but he told me I would be better taking it regularly, long term (3 years). His rationale is that the brain of an inattentive person such as myself become clustered while off dex, and remains that way until consistently medicated. However, now that I'm back using dex I'm not sure it is the answer to my prays. It does reduce my irritability, inattentiveness, lack of motivation, etc, but I just cannot help but feel that I'm doing more damage then good, even at therapeutic doses. Plus I hate the highs and lows associated with dex, and the inevitable psychological dependence that comes with chronic dosing.

Additionally it still leaves an array of my symptoms untreated. I'm starting to believe I may have damaged my opioid system through recreation of oxycodone in the past, plus regular use of codeine for back pain. I do have this persistent feeling of aches and pains that usually contributes to my lack of motivation. Maybe something like LDN therapy may be applicable?

I want to take healing approach, to my mental heart, I really do. But what options do I have? My attention, organisation, motivation problems are ruining my relationships, my academic progress and my overall well-being. Normal daily activities leave me burnt out, I have lost interest in my past hobbies, I put things off because the thought of doing them makes me feel overwhelmed and somewhat nauseous.

Dex gets me to a level where I do these things. I don't take enough to feel euphoric, in fact sometimes it's a more dysphoric feeling than anything. It actually gives me a feeling of guilt for procrastinating when usually I would just say "f**k it, who cares", despite knowing their probably long term consequences.

Note that all cholinergic supplements worsen my anhedonia and mood even in minimal doses. Piracetam stabilises my made incredibly well surprisingly, and is the main reason I use it.

I'm at the point where I'm so lost that I literally feel I have next to no options left. Keep in mind I have true sustained abstinence I'm starting to think I need a to make a big move. I have been considering ibogaine and have been discussing it with an iboga therapist here in Australia.

Please chime in if you think you have advice

The best advice I think is that you must lose the notion that you through free will can fix your issues with attention, motivation and anhedonia/dysphoria. Guilt comes from the notion that procrastination is a result of some kind of weaknesses or character flaw. Humans are capable of immense feats of willpower and focus - but we are generally not capable of reshaping the biological reality of our mind and body.

I believe that depression, lack of motivation, mental energy and anhedonia, is a way our biological machinery signals that it does not have enough energy. If your organism is not providing dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, bdnf, endorphins and all the other factors of metabolic and behavioral that science do not even understand yet, there is a reason for that. Dex is forcing your system through manipulation of neurotransmitters and your endocrine system to give more energy to your brain. The might be enough to kickstart the process of healing, but if it isn't, then you should look for something more to help.

I would suggest you attempt one of the following to force your brain to prune dead synapses, produce bdnf and give it a "reboot" of sorts:

1) Take up a physical or artistic hobby with which you have no prior experience, or which you have not done since early childhood. It doesn't matter if it is running, martial arts, skiing, sculpting, tai chi, archery, knitting or carpentry. It should not be too social an activity - I would not recommend a team sport. Force your brain to learn something radically new.

2) To the extent your academic activities allow it, fasting. Only hydration and maybe basic vitamins during the day, and enough food at night to allow you to sleep. Fasting has been shown to increase bdnf expression. If time allows it explore unfamiliar territory - visit nearby towns, neighborhoods you have not been to before, explore nature near your home. Trick your brain into thinking you are starved and exploring new territory looking for food.

Our bodies and minds have tremendous capacity for growth, adaptation and regeneration, but often they do not do so on their own. 

[eon]

Op is your dextroamphetamine called desoxyn? Is it 5mg?

[eon]

Peder I'm looking into Bdnf and I'm starting to understand what you're talking about. Regarding fasting is it because it somehow resets the brain from lacking food or what? Could this work in 1 day of just water. Diet?


I've read somewhere that donating blood makes the body create fresher blood so technically it resets the body. I guess it's about resetting the body?

[Peder Holdgaard Pedersen]

BDNF is upregulated by low blood sugar for some reason. How much you need to fast to notice an effect is probably individual. As for desoxyn - that is not dexamphetamine. Desoxyn is methamphetamine. Not the same medication.

[eon]

Of course. But isn't methamphetamine a mix of dex and levo (50/50 split?). Still completely a different medication but may have some similarities if I'm not mistaken. So the OP was speaking about dex (Ritalin?).

 

Not sure what you mean by upegulated, are you saying BDNF is induce when low in blood sugar? Is it because "something" kicks in when the brain is low on sugar? I'm still not getting it. Is it sort of like adrenaline; when in a dire situation, it kicks in? BDNF kicks in when the body lacks food/sugar (i.e. fasting)?

 

Since you say it varies individually, how does one notice the effect if obvious at all? One thing I noticed though regarding fasting, some Muslims I know when on their Ramadan, they seem a bit better than their usual selves. Not sure if they "achieved" BDNF. AFTER Ramadan, it's another story. LOL. Then again not sure if that is "true fasting" considering they still eat something for the day at certain times and when they do eat, it's a binge.

 

At what length of time is it considered fasting? Considering there's only 24 hours in a day. If a person sleeps for 8 hours, is that enough of a fasting? So if a person works for 8 hours a day without any food, is that enough time to be considered fasting? So 8 hours sleep and 8 hours work, that's 16 hours of no food. There's still that 8 hour left over to make up 24 hours...

 

Regarding your quotes:

 

1) Take up a physical or artistic hobby with which you have no prior experience, or which you have not done since early childhood. It doesn't matter if it is running, martial arts, skiing, sculpting, tai chi, archery, knitting or carpentry. It should not be too social an activity - I would not recommend a team sport. Force your brain to learn something radically new.

 

I play guitar but have not done so regularly as I used to when in my teens. Would playing daily for a few minutes help? I'm a right handed, so if I buy a left handed guitar (which I want to experiment with either way), would this be a good example? A right handed playing a left handed guitar. 

2) To the extent your academic activities allow it, fasting. Only hydration and maybe basic vitamins during the day, and enough food at night to allow you to sleep. Fasting has been shown to increase bdnf expression. If time allows it explore unfamiliar territory - visit nearby towns, neighborhoods you have not been to before, explore nature near your home. Trick your brain into thinking you are starved and exploring new territory looking for food.
 

When you say "starved" did you mean in terms of just food or other things as well? Like starving for knowledge or what?

 

So get on a water diet only?

 

Your quote #2 I may have done a part of it already by completely moving to an unfamiliar territory/city twice already in the past 5 years. I moved to cities I have no business being in, completely strange, etc. by choice. It had nothing to do with the BDNF at all since I've just heard of that word on this thread. The experience certainly opened up new territories but of course I'm still looking for more.

 

Our bodies and minds have tremendous capacity for growth, adaptation and regeneration, but often they do not do so on their own. 

 

The brain part seem to be the hardest? Maybe I haven't tried harder. The body I think I have figured some out regarding growth, adaptation, and regeneration. There's always something new.

 

BDNF is upregulated by low blood sugar for some reason. How much you need to fast to notice an effect is probably individual. As for desoxyn - that is not dexamphetamine. Desoxyn is methamphetamine. Not the same medication.

 

Edited by eon, 13 October 2014 - 01:05 PM.

[eon]

OK I just did a 22 hour fasting. I had no food from midnight yesterday to 10 p.m. that's 22 hours. 8 of those hours I slept so I had 14 hours technically of no food. I think it's a bit long. I tried to make it 24 hour of no food. I could handle it. I drank only water and water soluble vitamins. I had to avoid my fat soluble vitamins for the day.

 

My head gave a bit of an ache similar to that of a nootropic compound (think gingko biloba, phospatidyl serine, etc.) but not as harsh. BDNF at work?

 

I just looked up that a typical Ramadan type fasting is something like 12 hours of no food, I guess if I could handle 22 hours of no food, 12 hours should be easy. There were times I've slept for 12 hours, but I guess that doesn't count as fasting considering I was asleep?

Edited by eon, 14 October 2014 - 09:14 AM.

[Zenfood]

 

As for treating ADHD tho' - my foremost recommendation is to do a GENE-TEST over on 23andme.com, and then report back with the results

FYI 23andme no longer offers the test you're referring to. They are now basically a scam site.

 

 

This is BS. I did the test recently and downloaded the data file in RAW format. Then uploaded it on MTHFR.net, geneticgenie.org and promethease.com
http://www.city-data...romethease.html

Edited by Zenfood, 15 October 2014 - 01:39 PM.

[Zenfood]

The BDNF expression of fasting is minimal. Don't bother. I have fasted 16-18 hours a day (Lean Gains diet) for about 18 months. Recently quit it, because I'm ripped and satisfied with my body now.
I paired this with powerlifting. Fasting won't change your body magically.

The point is that my BDNF is still low and my imagination is poor. I cannot "paint pictures" in my mind. 
If you want to improve your mood get some Alpha GPC, Uridine (Sublingual without fillers) and DHA(500mg capsules). Yes, it's Mr. Happy's Stack.

I would also Noopept for a couple of weeks. I think that it increased my BDNF and NGF, but I don't think that one should supplement with it for a long period of time.

[eon]

Is that how you measure BDNF? I believe I can picture things in my head, almost open eyed daydreaming if that makes sense, hallucinating in the mind without seeing anything "visually" with the eyes. my closed eyed dreams are even more intense, not sure if b12 and P5P may have something to do with it.

 

What do you think causes BDNF to "form" or be activated? I've tried the fasting as I mentioned the effects above on my other posts.

 

My mood is just as fine without doing Mr. Happy's stack, using folate, b12, and TMG instead. All can go together well and improved my mood, folate and TMG more responsible than b12 I think.

 

Noopept was subtle for me at 10mg to 20mg  daily. Alpha GPC was great. I may get on it again stacked with Aniracetam.

 

Regarding BDNF and exercise I read it works as well, curious if the use of steroids which intensifies workouts would make BDNF more noticeable? I've used light dose steroids before. I was told by someone steroids can make you smart could it be because the intensity of workouts happen to activate BDNF? Not sure if that's self-praise or actually fact from the person who told me this. I know of a neurosteroid promoting neurogenesis (pregnenolone), but not sure about those other anabolic androgenic steroids.

 

Also, I'm trying to find out if too much exercise has its detrimental effects mentally as well. I may have come across it from someone saying it but can't figure out if it is fact. Does it make one become narcissistic? Too much bloodflow in the brain. Which isn't so bad if you are Wall Street material, etc. Not sure what intense workouts activate in the brain.

 

BDNF in saliva? Does that mean I swallow more?

Edited by eon, 16 October 2014 - 06:44 AM.

[VICREP]

Just an update. I'm going to drop stimulants. They are not for me. They make me stubborn and serious on them, and depressed when they wear off. It is somewhat like a calming effect but I don't think my problems are stemming from adhd.

I'm going to have break from all drugs for a bit and just use supplements and caffeine occasionally. I want to see what my normal state is. If it is still anhedonic, or just generally a low mood I'll look into trying some antidepressant for a short course. Maybe my attention/cognitive problems stem from changes engraved through chronic stress.

Thanks for your help guys

[Zenfood]

Stimulants are not the answer.

Eon, you sound exactly like me. Please read comment #77, #90, #94 and #104. Please read the last comment as well, we are discussing pregnenolone.

It seems that we are on the same track. http://www.longecity...s-adhd-problem/

I believe this is how one measures BDNF. When I was a kid I had this ability, but it disappeared after I became depressed as a teenager. Wouldn't view myself as a depressed person anymore because it was years ago. However I am sure that something bad happened and it downregulated my BDNF hardcore.

I would also switch from folate to methylfolate (metafolin), because if you have a mutation regular folate will damage you.

 

I believe that overtraining (CNS fatigue) is very bad for us naturals. I am considering the use of steroids now for many reasons. Probably a 3 months cycle per year.

I can deadlift 2.5x my own weight. It really fries my CNS and I am exhausted for 72 hours and feel like shit. Even if I do this once every 14 days. More often and I cannot function at all.

Btw.

I am working on my Zenhedonia stack:
TMG + ALCAR +Alpha GPC + Uridine (sublingual) + DHA

P5P, Mb12, Methylfolate for methylation.
 

- Acetyl-L-Carnitine (increases acetylcholine levels) improves spatial working memory deficits. Low dose, like 100-300mg to avoid anxiety and excess choline.

- By taking supplemental TMG we can spare much of the body’s choline reserves for conversion to acetylcholine. TMG also helps with methylation and helps the body in creating SAM-e.

 

 

Is that how you measure BDNF? I believe I can picture things in my head, almost open eyed daydreaming if that makes sense, hallucinating in the mind without seeing anything "visually" with the eyes. my closed eyed dreams are even more intense, not sure if b12 and P5P may have something to do with it.

 

What do you think causes BDNF to "form" or be activated? I've tried the fasting as I mentioned the effects above on my other posts.

 

My mood is just as fine without doing Mr. Happy's stack, using folate, b12, and TMG instead. All can go together well and improved my mood, folate and TMG more responsible than b12 I think.

 

Noopept was subtle for me at 10mg to 20mg  daily. Alpha GPC was great. I may get on it again stacked with Aniracetam.

 

Regarding BDNF and exercise I read it works as well, curious if the use of steroids which intensifies workouts would make BDNF more noticeable? I've used light dose steroids before. I was told by someone steroids can make you smart could it be because the intensity of workouts happen to activate BDNF? Not sure if that's self-praise or actually fact from the person who told me this. I know of a neurosteroid promoting neurogenesis (pregnenolone), but not sure about those other anabolic androgenic steroids.

 

Also, I'm trying to find out if too much exercise has its detrimental effects mentally as well. I may have come across it from someone saying it but can't figure out if it is fact. Does it make one become narcissistic? Too much bloodflow in the brain. Which isn't so bad if you are Wall Street material, etc. Not sure what intense workouts activate in the brain.

 

BDNF in saliva? Does that mean I swallow more?

 

 

Edited by Zenfood, 16 October 2014 - 11:33 AM.