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copper zinc ratio - white hair

just a thought

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#1 Stefanovic

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 01:17 PM


As some of you might know I developped lots of white hair in just a few months time last year.

I checked out my blood results:

copper was around 90 and should have been in the 70 - 140 range, that's still okay but on the lower end,

and zinc was 108 and should have been between 70-120 which means in the higher end and unbalanced, I suppose that could be the reason why my hair's color changed. I already ordered a copper sebacate supplement ( 3 mg) and solgar's zinc ( 22 mg) to have a better balance;


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#2 Dorian Grey

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 05:06 PM

Don't forget to look also at iron/ferritin in your labs...  

 

Sorry I don't have any good links for you, but I've been researching the effect age related iron accumulation has on other minerals and there seems to be an interaction with the functionality of copper.  

 

Iron, more than any other mineral in today's iron fortified meat eating world, tends to accumulate with age, and this accumulation appears to be anything but benign.  The normal range for ferritin in adult males is an astounding 300+, but there is a growing school of thought that anything into triple digits may be problematic.  

 

I am particularly fascinated by those who's hair goes snowy white rather than gray with age.  An old friend of mine had a hysterectomy around age 30 and has been on hormone replacement ever since.  HRT and estrogen dominance has been associated with copper retention/toxicity, and early hysterectomy with iron accumulation.  It's anecdotal, but this gal went gray in her late 30s and snowy white in her early 50s.  She colored it for a while, but her dramatically white roots would show up so quickly she eventually gave up.  She now jokingly describes herself as the white witch.  

 

No data on her labs and perhaps unscientific of me to post this observation, but I'd love to see a mineral analysis on her.  

 

Ferritin is a dirt cheap lab, so I thought I'd throw this into the mix and see if you might be interested in researching this angle a bit further on your own.  


Edited by synesthesia, 19 October 2014 - 05:20 PM.


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#3 niner

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 01:18 AM

 

copper was around 90 and should have been in the 70 - 140 range, that's still okay but on the lower end,

and zinc was 108 and should have been between 70-120 which means in the higher end and unbalanced, I suppose that could be the reason why my hair's color changed. I already ordered a copper sebacate supplement ( 3 mg) and solgar's zinc ( 22 mg) to have a better balance;

 

 

Both your copper and your zinc are right about where you want them.  They are certainly not the cause of hair graying.   Taking that copper supplement is more likely to be harmful than helpful, although the zinc won't hurt.  My mother's hair turned white at an early age, (despite and mine has followed suit.  I've not had copper or zinc analyses, but my ferritin was double digit the last time I checked.  I got plenty of copper during the time that my hair lost its color, so I don't think it was that.  These days I really try to avoid copper, other than food sources.



#4 Dorian Grey

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:19 AM

Here's a paper on the interaction between iron and copper...

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15831128

The molecular basis of copper and iron interactions.

Abstract

 

The intimate relationship between Fe and Cu in human nutrition has been recognised for many years. The best-characterised link is provided by caeruloplasmin, a multiCu-binding protein that acts as a serum ferrioxidase and is essential for the mobilisation of Fe from storage tissues. Decreased Cu status has been shown to reduce holo-caeruloplasmin production and impair ferrioxidase activity, leading, in a number of cases, to decreased tissue Fe release and the generation of anaemia that is responsive to dietary supplementation with Cu but not Fe. Dietary Fe absorption also requires the presence of a multiCu ferrioxidase. Hephaestin, a caeruloplasmin homologue, works in concert with the IREG1 transporter to permit Fe efflux from enterocytes for loading onto transferrin.

 

The essential role of hephaestin in this process has been recognised from studies in the sex-linked anaemic (sla) mouse, in which Fe efflux is markedly impaired as a result of a mutation in the hephaestin gene that results in a truncated and non-functional version of the protein. There is emerging evidence that a number of other components of the intestinal Fe transport pathway are also Cu sensitive. Divalent metal transporter 1 (DMT1), the Fe transporter located at the apical membrane of enterocytes, is also a physiologically-relevant Cu transporter, suggesting that these two metals may compete with each other for uptake into the duodenal enterocytes. Furthermore, expression of both DMT1 and the basolateral Fe-efflux transporter IREG1 can be regulated by Cu, suggesting that the Fe-Cu relationship may be more complex than first thought.

 

And here:

http://www.annualrev...ournalCode=nutr

 

Given their similar physiochemical properties, it is a logical postulate that iron and copper metabolism are intertwined. Indeed, iron-copper interactions were first documented over a century ago, but the homeostatic effects of one on the other has not been elucidated at a molecular level to date. Recent experimental work has, however, begun to provide mechanistic insight into how copper influences iron metabolism. During iron deficiency, elevated copper levels are observed in the intestinal mucosa, liver, and blood. Copper accumulation and/or redistribution within enterocytes may influence iron transport, and high hepatic copper may enhance biosynthesis of a circulating ferroxidase, which potentiates iron release from stores. Moreover, emerging evidence has documented direct effects of copper on the expression and activity of the iron-regulatory hormone hepcidin. This review summarizes current experimental work in this field, with a focus on molecular aspects of iron-copper interplay and how these interactions relate to various disease states.

 

------------------------------------

 

As niner mentioned, gobbling down copper supplements is a risky business.  The blurb just above seems to indicate when iron is low, natural copper uptake might be improved.  Perhaps the inverse is true and when iron is replete, copper uptake is suppressed?  


Edited by synesthesia, 20 October 2014 - 02:35 AM.


#5 krillin

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:07 AM

I consider copper and zinc tests to be unreliable indicators. See Michael's post here.



#6 Stefanovic

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 09:35 AM

http://www.iherb.com...20-tablets/1155   This form was safe from what I've read but do I need extra iron to be okay?

 

this is the supplement I've ordered after reading some positive comments on hair darkening. I read the sebacate also increase SOD which has on impact on hair color.

I lost my hair color when dealing with a lot of stress. My cortisol was also too high when having had the blood test. The greying is also more like patches of white coming through, not how natural greying process would be like. My relatives around my age are not grey ( I'm 32)

Apart from that I've also ordered country life's coenzymed B complex, paba and L-tyrosine



#7 dankis

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 10:48 AM

Serum zinc and copper tests are in most cases unreliable in humans. Ceruloplasmin the main copper transport protein is acute-phase protein. Only low copper readings are indicative of copper deficiency/problems with copper transport.

Zinc lab values also change during inflammation and are pretty well maintained during state of deficiency. I have seen a case study of women with serum zinc sligthly under 70 μg/dL(in some reference ranges still in range) and very severe zinc deficiency symptoms fully treated by zinc supplement.

I  advise you to check  erythrocyte or lymphocyte zinc levels instead . What is your 25(oh)d3 level? VDRs(Vitamin D Receptors) modulate directly melanogenesis and antioxidant system.

Also for white hair you could try tocotrienols, resveratrolc and/or 60-oo.

 


Edited by dankis, 20 October 2014 - 10:49 AM.

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#8 Stefanovic

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:00 PM

Thanks, Dankis. Could you elaborate on the tocotrienols,....part and its proven benefits on hair? It doesn't look cheap.



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#9 dankis

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 06:12 PM

There are some anecdotes regarding peoples regaining their natural hair color with tocotrienol supplementation. They aren't cheap but 2-3 month trial probably won't hurt you. Check toco-sorb from Jarrows. At 2 softgels/day  it is about 17$/month.

Tocotrienols seems to be effective for hair loss:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24575202






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