10 replies to this topic

[agwoodliffe]

The classic idea is that there is a problem with the gut. In other words, everyone seems to suggest supplementing with digestive enzymes & probiotics.

 

My curiosity is whether there have been any others that have shown promise. Word of mouth seems to suggest: D-Ribose, Carnosine, and stimulants in some cases.

I have a suspicion that certain herbs like Ginkgo and Panax Ginseng might also help (remembering that ADHD and Aspergers may overlap in certain features).

[diabeticNorm]

I think there have been some studies which showed benefit from carnosine. You may also want to look at your diet as a whole


You have access to many papers online at www.pubmed.com

[ta5]

There are a few articles on Luteolin for autism spectrum disorders. And maybe Melatonin.

Edited by ta5, 17 November 2014 - 04:36 AM.

[diabeticNorm]

The classic idea is that there is a problem with the gut. In other words, everyone seems to suggest supplementing with digestive enzymes & probiotics.

My curiosity is whether there have been any others that have shown promise. Word of mouth seems to suggest: D-Ribose, Carnosine, and stimulants in some cases.
I have a suspicion that certain herbs like Ginkgo and Panax Ginseng might also help (remembering that ADHD and Aspergers may overlap in certain features).

I would also stay away from stimulants as i can't imagine this would help.

[MrHappy]

Suramin.

http://www.nature.co.../tp201433a.html

Autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) now affect 1–2% of the children born in the United States. Hundreds of genetic, metabolic and environmental factors are known to increase the risk of ASD. Similar factors are known to influence the risk of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder; however, a unifying mechanistic explanation has remained elusive. Here we used the maternal immune activation (MIA) mouse model of neurodevelopmental and neuropsychiatric disorders to study the effects of a single dose of the antipurinergic drug suramin on the behavior and metabolism of adult animals. We found that disturbances in social behavior, novelty preference and metabolism are not permanent but are treatable with antipurinergic therapy (APT) in this model of ASD and schizophrenia. A single dose of suramin (20 mg kg−1 intraperitoneally (i.p.)) given to 6-month-old adults restored normal social behavior, novelty preference and metabolism. Comprehensive metabolomic analysis identified purine metabolism as the key regulatory pathway. Correction of purine metabolism normalized 17 of 18 metabolic pathways that were disturbed in the MIA model. Two days after treatment, the suramin concentration in the plasma and brainstem was 7.64 μm pmol μl−1 (±0.50) and 5.15 pmol mg−1 (±0.49), respectively. These data show good uptake of suramin into the central nervous system at the level of the brainstem. Most of the improvements associated with APT were lost after 5 weeks of drug washout, consistent with the 1-week plasma half-life of suramin in mice. Our results show that purine metabolism is a master regulator of behavior and metabolism in the MIA model, and that single-dose APT with suramin acutely reverses these abnormalities, even in adults.

[niner]

Have the disturbed purine metabolism pathways seen in the mouse model also been seen in humans with autism spectrum disorders?  If so, suramin sounds like something that deserves a look.

 

There are a lot of metabolic/physiologic correlates of autism, and treating them has led to some tantalizing results, although no silver bullets that I'm aware of.  Michael Chez is very active in this area.

[agwoodliffe]

Ah wait, here's an interesting bit of info I found. Apparently, patients with ASD seem to have a problem/deficiency in the active form of Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxal-5-phosphate) despite having normal B6 levels.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16494569

 

 

Funnily enough, this is a problem that seems to be shared with people with ADHD

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24321736

 

Edited by agwoodliffe, 24 November 2014 - 10:24 AM.

[Steve Zissou]

Sulforaphane in Broccoli shows some promise.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....oraphane autism

 

After 18 wk, participants receiving placebo experienced minimal change (<3.3%), whereas those receiving sulforaphane showed substantial declines (improvement of behavior): 34% for ABC (P < 0.001, comparing treatments) and 17% for SRS scores (P = 0.017). On CGI-I, a significantly greater number of participants receiving sulforaphane had improvement in social interaction, abnormal behavior, and verbal communication (P = 0.015-0.007).

[agwoodliffe]

Uh oh. On 2nd thought, it might be better to LEAVE Ginkgo Biloba out.

Studies have shown that it is quite a potent antagonist of GABA and Glycine (both of which seem to be already under-functioning in Aspergers).

 

 

From what I have read, there seems to be 2 main problems with Aspergers:

1) Lower levels of Oxytocin & Arginine Vasopressin (which may be related to the 'inability to read emotions').

2) A higher level of Glutamate combined with low GABA & Glutamine.  [this is a problem that seems to be shared with people with Social Anxiety & some forms of ADHD]

 

 

From 1), I would assume Aspergers have an overactive form of an enzyme called ''Prolyl Endopeptidase'' (which degrades both oxytocin and AVP).  The reason I initially included Ginkgo was because it blocks this enzyme. However, as I said above, it may also aggravate the Glutamate-Gaba-Glutamine issue. But I can't be sure of this.

 

2 other well regarded Prolyl-Endopeptidase inhibitors are: Berberine (found in Relora), and a herb called Scutellaria Baicalensis (Chinese Skullcap).

 

If patients have success with any of these, fantastic!

 

 

Now that leaves the Glutamate issue.

This is completely academic, and a bit of guesswork on my part, but there are several ways this problem could be approached:

1) Simply supplementing with L-Glutamine

2) Blocking the conversion of GABA to Glutamate - with Melissa Officinalis (Lemon Balm)

3) Supplementing with L-Glycine

4) Kava Kava seems to have a lot of praise as a pro-Gaba/relaxant herb, but it does have the potential to mess up the liver.

5) This isn't much of a secret, but it may be worth avoiding Coffee. Reason why is that it is quite strong in blocking GABA and Glycine.

 

 

 

PS. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it might be safe to supplement with the active forms of B6, B12 and Folic acid just in case, as there are apparently a larger number of people that are deficient in these chemicals than you think. These active forms are called Pyridoxal-5-phosphate, Hydroxocobalamin, and Folinic acid.

I'm sceptical as to whether they really contribute much towards symptoms, but some people have said it makes all the difference. (shrugs shoulders)

 

Edited by agwoodliffe, 26 November 2014 - 11:27 AM.

[agwoodliffe]

In relation to the above post, some people may respond better to Oxytocin, and some may respond better to GABA (the 2 seem to work against each other apparently).

[diabeticNorm]

Sulforaphane in Broccoli shows some promise.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....oraphane autism

After 18 wk, participants receiving placebo experienced minimal change (<3.3%), whereas those receiving sulforaphane showed substantial declines (improvement of behavior): 34% for ABC (P < 0.001, comparing treatments) and 17% for SRS scores (P = 0.017). On CGI-I, a significantly greater number of participants receiving sulforaphane had improvement in social interaction, abnormal behavior, and verbal communication (P = 0.015-0.007).

I find that sulforaphane article really interesting, has this been replicated in other studies do you know?