19 replies to this topic

[FW900]

4-Benzylpiperidine is a drug and research chemical used in scientific studies. It acts as a monoamine releasing agent with 20- to 48-fold selectivity for releasing dopamine versus serotonin.^[1] It has a fast onset of action and a short duration.^[1] It also functions as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) with preference for MAO-A.^[2]

 

http://en.wikipedia....enzylpiperidine

 

 

 

[d3C3pT0R]

MAO inhibitors are pretty "dirty".

[FW900]

MAO inhibitors are pretty "dirty".

 

It's main mechanism of action is not MAO inhibition. 4-PMPD's mainly acts as a releasing agent + NDRI. It's MAO-A inhibition is negligible in low dosages.

 

I also disagree with your statement. What makes you think MAOIs are dirty?

[golden1]

I took 1mg of etizolam as well.. mostly because I hate stimulant side effects and benzos fix them perfectly. If the benzo drowns out the effects I will try again later and give another report. I refrained from taking anything else except probiotics and magnesium.

11:00am - 5mg taken as allergy/potency precaution

2:00pm - 62mg 4-PMPD taken on empty stomach

2:30pm - certainly notice a caffeine like awake feeling

2:50pm - slightly elevated perceived temperature, caffeine like mild mild headache. overall reminiscent of amphetamine, but missing most of the usefulness?

3:12pm - scalp tingles a few times, my laptop screen strains my eyes a lot.. giving me a mild headache and making it hard to enjoy

3:17pm - looking around elsewhere instantly makes everything less tense feeling.. took heart rate: 82bpm, I should have taken it @ 2:00pm too.. but I think 82bpm is pretty low for me especially on something that feels speedy even considering etizolam lowering it.

3:30pm - headache feeling went mostly away even looking at laptop. It certainly feels like a stimulant, but it has a lot of distractions for me in the form of tenseness.

6:00pm - I still feel it. I worked a decent amount compiling my game for the iOS app store and setting it up for the review process.

Seems like a mix between amphetamine and what sunifiram overstimulation feels like. Or maybe closer to ritalin.. Very little euphoria. Reminds me a bit of 2-DPMP in it's more awake feeling compared to the euphoricness of amp. It is nice, but feels dirty to me even with the added benzo. Only paid $4 total for 10grams, so thanks new mind!

Possibly lower doses offer some positives without negatives. I'll probably try a higher dose first though. Hope that helps somewhat.

 

 

 

posted this on reddit figured id post to here too

[resveratrol_guy]

@ golden1, you might want to read about the connection between benzo use and Alzheimer's before continuing your experiment. I don't know what you expect to gain from 4-PMPD, but personally I really value having lab rats spill their data on this forum. So thanks for that.

 

@ FW900 can you elaborate on why you brought this to our attention? Is there a Parkinson's angle here? Is it like welbutrin on steroids? Something else entirely? Wiki isn't really informative; maybe you should edit their article.

 

[golden1]

I'm not concerned with taking benzos when needed/wanted as long as it is spaced enough to not give dependency.  I know of the study. It makes sense, but it is only increased risk and not much is known about why.  Taking this 4-pmpd is way more risky.  

 

 

[FW900]

@golden1 - Thanks for the report, I found it interesting. + Informative

 

@resveratrol_guy:  I decided to make this thread considering that Newmind has added this substance to their inventory, and there isn't a single report on this stuff outside of one prior to this thread on /r/nootropics. Given that it is extremely cheap, I would guess a lot of people bought it. This thread is simply to get some discussion going about it.

 

Initial impressions (posted also on r/nootropics):

 

I took 5mg at around 10:50am today alongside some noopept (~15mg) phenibut (800mg) and l-theanine (~150mg). I felt an noted increase in productivity. Mind felt sharp, responsive and was flowing with ideas from this combination. I felt more focused than usual.

 

Slight stimulant effects lasted until 17-18:00, but as of now I can't say for certain. I was at a loss for some words during a speech I was giving around this time which I attribute to a mild crash.

 

Redosed ~7mg around 22:00.... didn't feel anything and have been wanting to sleep all night.

 

This dose did very little to ward off tiredness. I wanted to take a nap throughout the day. I'll experiment with 20mg next week.

 

[d3C3pT0R]

 

MAO inhibitors are pretty "dirty".

 

 

 

I also disagree with your statement. What makes you think MAOIs are dirty?

 

 

MAOI's are notorious for drug and food interactions.

 

It give no freedom to mix coctails and attack with other molecules.

 

Edited by d3C3pT0R, 03 December 2014 - 12:53 AM.

[medicineman]

@ golden1, you might want to read about the connection between benzo use and Alzheimer's before continuing your experiment. I don't know what you expect to gain from 4-PMPD, but personally I really value having lab rats spill their data on this forum. So thanks for that.

@ FW900 can you elaborate on why you brought this to our attention? Is there a Parkinson's angle here? Is it like welbutrin on steroids? Something else entirely? Wiki isn't really informative; maybe you should edit their article.

it's a correlation. I bet there's also a link between patients on statins, or aspirin, or any other drug used to treat chronic illness and dementia.

[resveratrol_guy]

For anyone taking this, did it improve your math skills by any objective metric?

 

http://www.scienceda...41205093831.htm

 

[The Brain]

I didn't notice any effects at all, dosed quite high over a few days and haven't wasted my time with it since.

[ataraxis]

I recently tried this chem and thought i would add to the discussion because of the lack of information at high dosage. I always was a bit reckless when experimenting with chems, not very proud of it but it's the way i am... i must be a little bit lacking in the patience (and basic common sense for that matter) department. That said, i dosed up to 400 mg + 200 mg + 200 mg in a night. I actually thpught it would be a little like prolintane, for i was looking for a functional lightweight stim.

This isn't one. The functional potential is none. The recreational potential for me at these doses is medium, and feels like any other dopaminergic+serontonergic substance, i.e. a "shivery" "tingly" come up followed by a warm fuzzy euphoria. Peak effects manifest after 20 minutes and last an hour. Very comparable pharmocokinetics to mdma, minus the horrendous comedown and no real urge to redose. Well actually, there MUST be an urge to redose, because i did, but keep in mind how dumb i am... all in all there was no craving.

On the plus side : maybe the maoi potential is a good thing : i was in a particularly good mood the day after. No crash but a really nice afterglow, unlike any other drug (ketamine has no afterglow for me.... just a bit of a hangover like : "today i don't feel like doing aaaaanything.... tooodoodoo too doo! I just wanna lay in my bed.").

Seems that for other people these high doses don't have any effect. They seem to be stim lovers, so must be cross tomerance. I used some stims too but i pretty much hate the effects (too strong for me), i only use functionnal stims these days. Strength of effects is mild to moderate here.

Side effects are : moderate tachycardia 130bpm at worst, and massive prosexual boost with no problems to achieve erection or orgasm. Orgasm was in fact an overwhelming experience...

In short : recreational potential is moderate to high, no procognitive value. Untested, probably toxic chem (dopaminergic neurotox?). Could be an ersatz of mdma if you are into this kind of thing but inter individual variability, due to cross tolerance and pharmacokinetic variations makes the effects unpredictable. I think this chem is better left alone, and discussions about it would belong to a "Recreational drugs" thread better than "Brain Health". Feels less acutely toxic than street mdma though...

[Flex]

 

I took 1mg of etizolam as well.. mostly because I hate stimulant side effects and benzos fix them perfectly. If the benzo drowns out the effects I will try again later and give another report. I refrained from taking anything else except probiotics and magnesium.

11:00am - 5mg taken as allergy/potency precaution

2:00pm - 62mg 4-PMPD taken on empty stomach

2:30pm - certainly notice a caffeine like awake feeling

2:50pm - slightly elevated perceived temperature, caffeine like mild mild headache. overall reminiscent of amphetamine, but missing most of the usefulness?

3:12pm - scalp tingles a few times, my laptop screen strains my eyes a lot.. giving me a mild headache and making it hard to enjoy

3:17pm - looking around elsewhere instantly makes everything less tense feeling.. took heart rate: 82bpm, I should have taken it @ 2:00pm too.. but I think 82bpm is pretty low for me especially on something that feels speedy even considering etizolam lowering it.

3:30pm - headache feeling went mostly away even looking at laptop. It certainly feels like a stimulant, but it has a lot of distractions for me in the form of tenseness.

6:00pm - I still feel it. I worked a decent amount compiling my game for the iOS app store and setting it up for the review process.

Seems like a mix between amphetamine and what sunifiram overstimulation feels like. Or maybe closer to ritalin.. Very little euphoria. Reminds me a bit of 2-DPMP in it's more awake feeling compared to the euphoricness of amp. It is nice, but feels dirty to me even with the added benzo. Only paid $4 total for 10grams, so thanks new mind!

Possibly lower doses offer some positives without negatives. I'll probably try a higher dose first though. Hope that helps somewhat.

 

 

 

posted this on reddit figured id post to here too

 

 

Really dont want to be a scaremonger but just something to consider:

What if You experience any problematic side effects like mood disturbances or similair.

How could You get to know what happened in order to try to reverse it ?

There are no many studies or something that could explain any secondary effects, so apart from its releaser effects, like epigenetic alterations.

 

 

 

[golden1]

 

 

 

Really dont want to be a scaremonger but just something to consider:

What if You experience any problematic side effects like mood disturbances or similair.

How could You get to know what happened in order to try to reverse it ?

There are no many studies or something that could explain any secondary effects, so apart from its releaser effects, like epigenetic alterations.

 

 

I think that comes with using things like this.. same could be said for 9-me-bc, nsi, coluracetam, and really most chemicals.  I haven't used it again though anyway because it didn't seem useful and possibly was just in my head considering others didn't notice anything at that dose(although it really did not seem like placebo)

[Saffron]

This is a very sexual compound.

[Saffron]

Im sorry if this seems like a cryptic message in a review thread, but ataraxis & Elem187 are real people. Atar's post is completely accurate. everything in it, down to the tingle side effect and all the rest. except he might be 20 to 30% above a nominal range for Dose. But then again, he mentioned it was "high", so still completely accurate. Going to have to take notes on who's real. This material, PMPD, might have some limited usage.

Do not ever give this stuff to anyone who believes in Ghosts. In particular, those who believe in Succubus/incubus. People who experienced a certain localized side effect of this compound will understand this disclaimer.

Edited by Saffron, 01 February 2015 - 03:06 AM.

[The Brain]

I've taken around 1.5 grams of this stuff over a 24 hr period and felt nothing but a little bit of nausea in the stomach when I moved around a bit.

[Saffron]

I've taken around 1.5 grams of this stuff over a 24 hr period and felt nothing but a little bit of nausea in the stomach when I moved around a bit.

 

This stuff might be an MAO-Substrate and oxidized by MAO (total guess, we dont know) -- usually when you have stuff thats said to be an MAOI in higher doses & also short-acting, its because its a substrate for MAO. Havent their been people are reporting that when this is taken by routes other than oral it is a lot stronger? I do not recall for sure but i thought i remembered seeing such reports. I dont take anything except by swallowing. Im not that interested or crazy about PMPD, My next task is to give Agmatine Sulphate another try. (Natural Decarboxylation product of the amino acid Arganine in food, but also a pure supplement)

 

Maybe someone with the chemistry knowledge can reply if the piperdine portion is reactive with MAO, if its even possible or not. I wouldnt know because its NH within a ring, not NH2 out of a chain.

Edited by Saffron, 02 February 2015 - 12:59 PM.

[Saffron]

Look Here

 

https://www.google.c...s MAO substrate

Edited by Saffron, 02 February 2015 - 01:06 PM.

[normalizing]

any updates on this one? i have seen it on newmind together with prolintane and amfonelic acid all dopaminergics, which is the best to try though?