8 replies to this topic

[jroseland]

I always thought Piracetam was awesome for cognitive decline... Is it saying that Piracetam is useless when it comes to treating cognitive decline? Or is it just saying that Ginkgo deftly outperformed it?

 

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Numerous studies have looked at the potential benefits of various nootropic drugs such as Ginkgo biloba extract (EGb761®; Tanakan®) and piracetam (Nootropyl®) on age-related cognitive decline often leading to inconclusive results due to small sample sizes or insufficient follow-up duration. The present study assesses the association between intake of EGb761® and cognitive function of elderly adults over a 20-year period.

METHODS AND FINDINGS:

The data were gathered from the prospective community-based cohort study 'Paquid'. Within the study sample of 3612 non-demented participants aged 65 and over at baseline, three groups were compared: 589 subjects reporting use of EGb761® at at least one of the ten assessment visits, 149 subjects reporting use of piracetam at one of the assessment visits and 2874 subjects not reporting use of either EGb761® or piracetam. Decline on MMSE, verbal fluency and visual memory over the 20-year follow-up was analysed with a multivariate mixed linear effects model. A significant difference in MMSE decline over the 20-year follow-up was observed in the EGb761® and piracetam treatment groups compared to the 'neither treatment' group. These effects were in opposite directions: the EGb761® group declined less rapidly than the 'neither treatment' group, whereas the piracetam group declined more rapidly (β = -0.6). Regarding verbal fluency and visual memory, no difference was observed between the EGb761® group and the 'neither treatment' group (respectively, β = 0.21 and β = -0.03), whereas the piracetam group declined more rapidly (respectively, β = -1.40 and β = -0.44). When comparing the EGb761® and piracetam groups directly, a different decline was observed for the three tests (respectively β = -1.07, β = -1.61 and β = -0.41).

CONCLUSION:

Cognitive decline in a non-demented elderly population was lower in subjects who reported using EGb761® than in those who did not. This effect may be a specific medication effect of EGb761®, since it was not observed for another nootropic medication, piracetam.

 

Edited by jroseland, 05 January 2015 - 02:24 PM.

[jroseland]

Here's the link http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23326356

[Jim Morrison]

As far as I understand this was a French study. In Euope Piracetam is a prescription drug. At the age-class of the involved individuals I doubt that they ordered Piracetam on Ebay or Amazon. This means they were prescribed Piracetam by a physician. If people realize they have memory problems, consult a physician and get a prescription for piracetam, my guess is that they are already more advanced in terms of cognitve decline than the overall population of Ginkgo users. Ginkgo is more of a "wellness herb" that is well accepted and freely available, even in supermarkets. If one compares the nr. of subjects in the Ginkgo class vs the Pirectam class this becomes obvious. Thus, I don't think a conclusion on Piracetam can be drawn from this study.

[jafuga]

"The data were gathered from the prospective community-based cohort study 'Paquid'. Within the study sample of 3612 non-demented participants aged 65 and over at baseline, three groups were compared: 589 subjects reporting use of EGb761® at at least one of the ten assessment visits, 149 subjects reporting use of piracetam at one of the assessment visits and 2874 subjects not reporting use of either EGb761® or piracetam."

 

It would be nice to know what the cause of prescription of piracetam in France, and see if that could influence the outcome of the study.

 

(sorry for my english)

 

[AOLministrator]

Pretty much

 

 

 

589 subjects reporting use of EGb761® at at least one of the ten assessment visits, 149 subjects reporting use of piracetam at one of the assessment visits and 2874 subjects not

 

said all there is to say about this: basically it is just random BS. But aside while reading I figured that, most notably, drugs that elevate blood pressure and cancel beta-blockers in the head or somehow just get more blood into there by whatever means, in 65+ people, would have the most prominent effect of all nootropics.

 

This kind of (imho most probable) correlation puts a whole other light on the phrase "influences age related cognitive decline".

Edited by Aolministrator, 07 January 2015 - 11:38 PM.

[jroseland]

As far as I understand this was a French study. In Euope Piracetam is a prescription drug. At the age-class of the involved individuals I doubt that they ordered Piracetam on Ebay or Amazon. This means they were prescribed Piracetam by a physician. If people realize they have memory problems, consult a physician and get a prescription for piracetam, my guess is that they are already more advanced in terms of cognitve decline than the overall population of Ginkgo users. Ginkgo is more of a "wellness herb" that is well accepted and freely available, even in supermarkets. If one compares the nr. of subjects in the Ginkgo class vs the Pirectam class this becomes obvious. Thus, I don't think a conclusion on Piracetam can be drawn from this study.

nr?

[gamesguru]

A 57 page meta-analysis concurs:

 

There were 24 included studies with 11959 participants in total. Many studies were of cross-over design and first-phase data were unavailable, or could not be extracted...Published evidence does not support the use of piracetam in the treatment of people with dementia or cognitive impairment.

 

[gamesguru]

Found some conflicting studies...

 

 

"The results of the meta-analysis demonstrate a difference between those individuals treated with piracetam and those given placebo, both as significant odds ratio and as a favourable number needed to treat. While there may be problems in meta-analyses and the interpretation of the statistical results, the results of this analysis provide compelling evidence for the global efficacy of piracetam in a diverse group of older subjects with cognitive impairment."

 

"A double-blind randomized trial was performed involving 162 patients with age-associated memory impairment (AAMI) selected and followed by their general practitioners. Two intervention methods--a drug and a cognitive therapy--were assessed in combination...The best results were observed with 4.8 g of piracetam, especially when training sessions began after 6 weeks of drug treatment."

 

"78 patients (61 females, 17 males) on the average of 73.2 years, showed statistically significant differences between piracetam therapy at a dosage of 3 X 1600 mg per day und placebo after a six week peroral therapy while no statistically significant differences between piracetam therapy at a dosage of 3X800 mg per day and placebo were found.[sic]"

 

 

[Flex]

As far as I understand this was a French study. In Euope Piracetam is a prescription drug. At the age-class of the involved individuals I doubt that they ordered Piracetam on Ebay or Amazon. This means they were prescribed Piracetam by a physician. If people realize they have memory problems, consult a physician and get a prescription for piracetam, my guess is that they are already more advanced in terms of cognitve decline than the overall population of Ginkgo users. Ginkgo is more of a "wellness herb" that is well accepted and freely available, even in supermarkets. If one compares the nr. of subjects in the Ginkgo class vs the Pirectam class this becomes obvious. Thus, I don't think a conclusion on Piracetam can be drawn from this study.

 

I would go for Ginkgo instead of Piracetam, if I had to choose

Ginkgo biloba extract (EGb 761) modulates the expression of dopamine-related genes in 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine-induced Parkinsonism in mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22885234

 

 

Piracetam can be antioxidant, but also pro-oxidant. This could explain the accelarated cognitive decline.

 

Oxidative stress in a model of toxic demyelination in rat brain: the effect of piracetam and vinpocetine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21448596

http://www.longecity...lk/#entry691060
 

Edited by Flex, 10 January 2015 - 10:42 PM.