53 replies to this topic

[ceridwen]

Anything that could cause growth might help.Uridine looks like a good place to start

[drg]

Please forgive my worsened writing, I've come off Coffee so I can't think properly anymore since my mental energy and attentiveness/alertness has gone down drastically.

 

I've updated my SSRI experience (had some side effects)

 

So from what I understand, my only options of treatment through medical approach are:

If I have low Serotonin e.g. Depression, OCD = antidepressants

If I have low Dopamine e.g. ADD, low motivation, low attention = amphetamines

If I have both low Serotonin & low Dopamine = ??

+ in conjunction with cognitive behavioral therapy

 

The problem with both antidepresants and amphetamines is that they artificially raise serotonin and dopamine levels. So they're never going to fix the fundamental problem, not to mention there's withdrawal. I want to be able to fix the root cause of my cognitive issues and from my understanding, the only substances that can do this are:

CDP choline

Uridine

 

Why is nobody suggesting Uridine or Citicholine as a possible treatment? I keep hearing that Uridine can heal the brain receptors, is it just over-hyped? Or is it because it's less effective/less safer than antidepresants/amphetamines?

 Please don't decrease your dose on your second day because of vomiting you need to give it a lot of time to work. At the very least consult your doctor before doing that. You said you took whey before your workout. That can be very hard on the stomach and is the most likely cause for the vomiting, that in conjunction with a hard work out. 

Also you should not assume low serotonin = depression, and low dopamine = ADHD. The brain is much more complicated than that.

 

You keep talking about antidepressants NOT fixing the underlying problem. You have taken a blood test? I think.... So it is unlikely you will find the underlying condition that is causing the depression so you just need to  the depression through standard depression treatment. You are not going to come out of treatment and be arnold schwarzenegger but the goal is for some improvement in symptoms. You need to stick through the treatment and give it time.

 

The other option is to talk to your doctor about a brain transplant.

[mandible]

@ heinsbeans

 

why do you think you might have mitochondrial misfunction? have you had any tests for this?

 

if you havent been tested for adhd then it would be worth to get tested. you could easily have adhd or add.

also your head injuries could play a role too. dr.amen has a book called change your brain change your life where he talks

about cases of people with head injuries which caused depression and other issues. if you lived in the USA i would have recommended

to you to go to one of his clinics and get a SPECT scan. if I lived in the USA I would get a spect scan. i think that there the chances of finding

root causes are bigger than simply prescribing one drug after another and then hoping to find something which works.

 

 

i also have the same issues but i am older than you. i also have dependent personality disorder.

i am not functionable and afraid of being alone or living alone. i have no clue how i shall make it in life. simply everything

scares me. do you have anxieties? maybe anxiety plays a role too in your case.

i was also afraid of driving a car for a long time. things which are normal for other people are scary to me. i am still scared when

i drive longer distances and when i'm further away from home than usual. usually i never go far from home.

Edited by mandible, 21 May 2015 - 07:04 PM.

[k4ir0s]

Out of curiosity, are any of your parents as anxious as you are? heinsbeans and  mandible

 

Ever since I moved back in with my father a few months ago, I feel myself becoming more and more like him (anxious, afraid to live life). Living with dysfunctional people is almost contagious. It's why I believe surrounding yourself with productive/functional people is the most beneficial thing a depressed person can do for themselves, or at least distancing yourself from dysfunctional people.

 

"You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with"

 

[mandible]

My father also has anxieties. It could be something genetic.

[Heinsbeans]

I haven't been able to update anymore because I've started taking Escitalopram again since my doctor told me to go back on it and it's been giving me brain fogs. But it's also helping to reduce the negative thoughts and anxiety so it's worth a try and see if it helps and I can always quit if I don't like it.

 

I'm starting to think that I don't have inattentive adult ADD but rather something similar to it, perhaps I have a neurotransmitter imbalance. It's pretty clear that I had lack of serotonin because antidepressants seems to be working. But I wouldn't be surprised if I have norepinephrine/dopamine imbalance as well since I still have issues with motivation and focus. I was given a ADHD Self-Report Scale (ASRS-v 1.1) by my Psychologist and it's exactly the same as the one from online. And most of the symptoms of ADD doesn't apply to me.

 

The only criteria that I scored high in is:

"When you have a task that requires a lot of thought, how often do you avoid or delay getting started"

"How often are you distracted by activity or noise around you?"

 

I'm currently on Week 3 of Escitalopram 10mg. Here's what it has been like so far:

 

Good:

↑ Less worried about my lack of accomplishments and I don't care about anything anymore. For example, the feeling of "I should be learning to drive/ I should be looking for a job" is gone.

↑ Less flat mood

↑ Need less caffeine to function

 

Bad:

↓ Not helping with clarity in thinking, planning, concentration, attention, mental energy or motivation. I still need coffee for that.

↓ Don't feel like myself

↓ Slight brain fog

↓ Even more decreased motivation/ambition. (E.g. I don't have any desire to learn to drive or look for a job anymore which I had before but couldn't act upon it.)

 

After having a mini cognitive therapy session with my Psychologist, I've realised that it's probably not going to work on me since I don't believe in changing my mindset. It's hard for me to change my mindset into believing that I'm capable and intelligent person instead of thinking that I'm incapable and unintelligent because that's how I feel inside. 

 

Edited by Heinsbeans, 17 June 2015 - 10:01 PM.

[Duchykins]

"What probably has worsened my cognition further is that I’ve developed Rectal prolapse, IBS-C, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon, Slow-colonic transit, Fecal impaction, Gastritis and Acid reflux/GERD when I turned 21. I believe I’ve developed these conditions because I was unable to cope with the stress in my life which ironically was caused by my lack of intelligence to overcome the stressor."

 

My very first thought as I read this: nutrient malabsorption, possible estrogen problem due to fecal matter not moving out swiftly enough, excess estrogen marked for excretion via solid waste can easily be re-absorbed into the body if the waste sits too long in the bowels

 

Unless you address these first you are wasting your time, your money, and your life.  Ignore all the bullshit you just read from people suggesting this or that nootropic until you get the appropriate tests done.

[Duchykins]

On second thought, to support mitochondrial energy production and transport, these are excellent to take together: coQ10, riboflavin, citrulline (malate), creatine, ribose, pantethine, carnitine (NOT acetylcarnitine); a properly active B complex, NO folic acid or cyanocobalamin.  All active Bs.  Some B complexes that claim to be active still have folic acid instead of folate, like Doctor's Best.  Swanson's has a good active B complex for dirt cheap.   Riboflavin can be taken up to 400 mg a day as often taken by migraineurs, your coQ10 dose can be safely doubled or tripled as well, space them out.  Pantethine should show up in the good B complexes but not enough for your purposes, so get it by itself.  I take all of these daily for exactly this purpose in order to prevent migraine, and it works awesomely.

 

Make sure you are always replenishing your electrolytes especially since you're having so much GI trouble.  Potassium, magnesium and calcium tend to be overlooked.  Now that I mention it, your caffeine consumption is making you lose magnesium and potassium a lot faster than normal.  Also, low potassium WILL give you all the symptoms of anxiety plus symptoms of sensory overstimulation, and K doesn't have to be dangerously low levels either, take if from someone who has had personal experience with hypokalemia and caffeine.  

 

 

 

Still, don't let this distract you from getting your hormones checked and looking for nutrient deficiencies.

Edited by Duchykins, 17 June 2015 - 10:45 PM.

[Skunkdaddy]

Well, I lost the response that I was pecking on this iPad-- shit. I disagree with the above B vitamin megadose, mainly due to more of a load for kidneys to filter as well as chelating minerals like zinc and disrupting picolinic acid uptake. Check out acu-cell.com B vitamin recommendations primarily but the subsections on complementary minerals are quite intriguing, even after pondering them with years of experience. I will continue this on my desktop.

[Duchykins]

I said up to 400 mg.  This is the riboflavin dose that has been studied in migraineurs (in migraineurs whose migraines are linked to poor cell energy, this can cut migraine rates way back, sometimes even by half).  I personally do around 125-200 mg though, and not all at once.

 

However you raised an excellent point about riboflavin and chelation.  

 

Non-phosphorylated riboflavin can definitely chelate a bunch of minerals, but the two active forms not so much.  This is one of the reasons I stress a B complex where every vitamin is in an active form.  And getting it in a dark bottle, keeping it from light as much as possible.    Anyone interested in this route should be going for riboflavin-5'-phosphate and making sure they don't take just the one vitamin by itself.  But don't expect any solution to be perfect.

 

I did think it a bit bizarre that you recommended a site like this.  And then I checked out its migraine page and found this little gem:

 

http://www.acu-cell.com/dis-hea.html

 

In contrast to other types of headaches, classic migraines _[45] or vascular headaches have the best potential

for an actual cure, since they are always related to abnormal liver functions (particularly abnormal iron and

manganese levels or ratios), which when rectified, will permanently resolve the disorder.  I have many

patients who have been completely migraine-free for over twenty years following corrective measures to

normalize liver functions through nutritional means or remedies.

 

This is outrageous bullshit and is predatory to boot.  The is evidence of some weirdness with liver function and migraineurs, but it's not universally pervasive, this is blown way out of proportion.  

 

And this:

 

In the event of elevated iron, any iron antagonist such as zinc, magnesium, Vitamin B2 or E - whichever

is the most compatible, will effectively relieve the side-specific migraine headaches associated with iron.

Donating blood is another option, which will also lower Blood Pressure in those where BP is related to high

iron levels.

 

Vast swatches of migraineurs including myself have blood pressure in the low range of normal (I've been coasting around 90/50 for decades).  I personally have an abundance of iron but no test has found an abnormal level in me ever.  We also don't always have pain on one specific side of the head with every migraine or even throughout one migraine attack, in fact that would be uncommon.  Our iron and manganese are not fluctuating this quickly and wildly to cause pain to shift from one side of the head to another, or spread to both sides, or spread to the back, etc.  Bullshit.  

 

Additionally, none of those things listed can abort a true migraine in progress, ever, not matter what side of the head the pain is mostly on.

 

In that whole page, there was not one single mention of migraine's genetic, hereditary, neurological causes, mitochondrial dysfunction (and the supplements that could help mitigate that), or abnormal glutamatergic pathways.  

 

 

But I think this was the cutest of them all, and I'll just let it speak for itself:

 

http://www.acu-cell.com/sh.html

 

Under the heading "Is There a God?"

 

A lack of spiritual health is most evident among most of the wealthiest, and among some of the smartest

people in this world, who deny the existence of a creator or God, and are blind to the overwhelming evidence

of Intelligent Design (ID).  These same people would readily admit that a simple paper clip could not exist

without intelligent design, however they have no problem maintaining with a straight face that something as

complex as the human body "evolved" all by itself out of a primordial soup...!

 

 

 

Edited by Duchykins, 09 July 2015 - 03:18 AM.

[hullcrush]

I can empathize with your situation, like composing a coherent anonymous forum message on your time, at your leisure is in any way analogous to working an eight hour shift. Uridine, if I remember correctly, is a negative modulator of dopamine. It's not likely to wildly improve your life, but by all means, try it.

If you were any very few countries besides Australia, you'd be in deep deep shit. In some ways, it hinders you as well.

x - Small steps. You can always boomerang back to your parent's house. Rent a room. See if you can tolerate temporary work. I know housing in Australia is an expensive circus act.

x - SSRIs are some of the safest drugs out there, start at very low doses. If you can't tolerate a 5 mg dose of Escitalopram, nootropics will absolutely plow you --- questionably sourced ingredients with less robust pharmacokinetic studies. You've had problems with ESC, take it with VERY low dose thyroid, it will eliminate the brain fog. Not the lack of motivation, however.

 

x - One drug that sort of occasionally works for me is dextroamphetamine, the straight d-isomer. I think Australia allows Adderall. Get a competent psychiatrist, pay out of pocket if need be.

x - Be prepared to see several psychiatrists before you find one that works for you. Since you have nationalized healthcare, you could be marked as drug seeking.

x - Be prepared to get rejected when asking for the following, if you are indeed depressed: buprenorphine, ketamine, lithium, MAOIs.

 

x - Go to an endocrinologist. If you have T over 250 (US units), they're not likely to help you.

 

x - And now, some really bad advice --- do whatever it takes to get your drugs, whether cannabis or otherwise (THC for me is incredibly deactivating, not good). Have borderline T? Get pharmaceutical grade testosterone enanthate with the appropriate post cycle therapy. Make you feel like crap? Stop doing it.

I view jail as free room and board, with free healthcare, because I'm in the United States, and that's how we roll. This forum is about life extension, which is essentially a luxury of the middle to upper class.

 

[PeaceAndProsperity]

I am going to take a stab at your problem (and I read the old thread you made) and say: do hormone replacement therapy legally or illegally.
Whether it's a hormonal problem or not to do with a lack of androgens, it would certainly help.
How many bodybuilders or strongmen do you see who talk of themselves as the lowest of the low? Obviously not that many--I haven't found a single; even the short bodybuilders who claim to hate themselves for their short stature will always think highly of themselves if challenged.
The correlation is not that they are bodybuilders or strongmen because they believe of themselves to be much, but often because of the reverse (a simple-minded analysis that is true).
Testosterone in the right amounts will almost certainly at least make you drop the "I am stupid" idea that you constantly are emphasizing, but will in conjunction with estrogen contribute to antidepressent effects and a betterment of your attention/memory/energy.

Both estrogen and testosterone (and other androgens) target a lot of different receptors, including glutamine, dopamine, serotonin, opioid, and so on.

[drg]

^ Yeah, if you are going to the gym and not noticing progress you won't be nearly as motivated as you would be if you make really fast progress. If you make huge gains in strength and endurance even improving your body appearance it is only natural you will feel better about yourself and more confident. And it is well known that exercise is probably the single best antidepressant.

[Heinsbeans]

Few updates.

 

To recap, my mental health issues are:

• flat mood <- SSRIs is helping
• not enjoying talking/socialising with others, avoiding social interaction and always wanting to be alone(I have zero friends) - SSRIs is helping somewhat  
• anxiety(e.g. having to find a full-time job) leading to OCD and self-destructive behavior since I can't think of any jobs that I can handle due to my cognitive issue. - SSRIs has reduced my anxiety
• lacking in self-driven motivation to do important things such as learning to drive.
• I can't handle too many responsibilities. I often become overwhlemed/fatigued by other tasks such as if I have to work or study.
• easily running out of mental energy to focus, think, learn and use my brain etc. and being dependent on coffee to help me function. Basically, without coffee I'm extremely unproductive and can't get anything done.
• My brain is very slow and I'm dependent on coffee to speed up my mental process, memory, attention, make decisions, organise my thoughts, retain and retrieve information, improve my mood etc. Without coffee, I can't function at all at work or school. 
• I’ve tried abstaining from coffee for over 4 weeks last year and even though the caffeine withdrawal subsided within the first week, it was still negatively affecting me at work even after the 4th week of abstaining since my mood was constantly low, I felt half-asleep, my brain worked very slowly, I had no mental energy, I couldn't pay attention very well and it was hard for me to make decisions and remember things.
• Terrible memory. I scored below average in spatial working memory tested by my Psychologist. But my auditory working memory was above average.
• I scored 109 on a IQ test tested by my psychologist. I dont' believe the score since I'm a very slow learner and my ability to problem solve is like that of an stupid teenager. I can only imagine myself getting a job as a cleaner with the kind of mental capacity I have.
• Becoming very sluggish and sleepy every time when I eat/drink anything and having to drink coffee just to prevent myself from falling asleep during the day. 

 

I'm not going to blame landlord going bankrupt and having to move to a worse house near the noisy road and depression/side effects caused by Roaccutane on all of my struggles. Since I already had mental illness before. But that was the culprit that tipped me off the edge and made me have to go to the doctor for help.

 

10mg Escitalopram:

 

Good

• reduced my flat mood and anxiety, OCD, self-destructive coping behavior, made it easier to open up socially and enjoy socialising a bit more than before(but I still rarely talk) and it also reduced the need for me to drink so much coffee to feel 'normal'.

 

Bad

• It has lowered my motivation even further
• gives me mental cloudness/fog so I still need to keep drinking coffee to clear the mental fog from the SSRIs and increase my memory, attention, mental processing speed, decision making to a functional level.

 

So far I have only been treated by a public Psychologist. I stopped seeing my Psychologist because he didn't think there was anything wrong with me intellectually and diagnosed me with social anxiety and lack of social skills due to the years of isolation I've put myself in because of my severe acne I had since teenager and IBS-C, redundant colon, slow transit colon and mucosal rectal prolapse that I've developed in 2012. And his best advise was "start socialising, make friends, watch movies, go to parties, enjoy life" which to be honest does not help at all when I'm overwhelmed and anxious from having to look for a full-time job from Centrelink(Australian Welfare). And I feel like I'm mentally incapable of working at most full-time jobs unless it's easy ones like McDonalds kitchen hand, but they only hire teenagers.

 

I've recently started juicing vegetables with a Angel Juicer 5500 on top of my healthy diet. I mainly juice carrots and beetroot. Although I feel healthier, I haven't felt any better cognitive wise.

I thought I had ADHD-PI but I probably just have a neurotransmitter imbalance.

 

I asked my doctor why I felt a warmth around my thyroid glands, a surge in energy and a pleasant buzz around my forehead for the first two days when I started supplementing with 240mcg iodine. And he told me that it's because iodine over-stimulates your thyroid glands and it doesn't necessary mean that I have thyroid issues.

 

I've already been tested for thyroid, diabetes, celiac, full blood count etc. and all came back negative. Full health report here: http://imgur.com/a/1igWg#0

 

I've asked my doctor if I should get tested for hormones such as testosterone, androgen or cortisol levels. But he was very reluctant to do those tests on me and I wasn't able to do them. And he told me my coffee dependence for mental energy isn't related to cortisol or hormonal issue.

 

I've asked my doctor what he thinks of Uridine Monophosphate as a treatment for depression but he wasn't aware of it and told me to stick to antidepressants.

 

My doctor basically thinks my mental health issues are probably to do with my neurotransmitters, especially in the area of serotonin and dopamine.

 

I've booked an appointment for a sleep study which is on 22nd of September and I've also booked an appointment with a private psychiatrist for a second opinion but I won't be able to see her until 15th of October.

 

Other forums I've been asking: 

• http://forums.whirlp...s.cfm?t=2424288
• http://www.ibsgroup....s/#entry1093482
• https://www.reddit.c...ddiabetes_test/
• https://www.reddit.c...ddiabetes_test/

Edited by Heinsbeans, 12 September 2015 - 01:13 PM.

[Junk Master]

Short term, six weeks or less, although I know it's an irresponsible recommendation, NOTHING will cure your symptoms like a cycle of oral Dianabol...especially if it's your first cycle.

[drg]

don't use dianabol without also supplementing testosterone it is counter productive and dumb, dianabol will shut down your natural production of testosterone (testosterone is proven to help with mood unlike the anecdotal evidence of dianabol)
 

basically don't use dianabol on its own, use testosterone AND dianabol

or just testosterone alone

but id agree anabolic hormones are great for energy, mood, drive, self confidence, encouragement to be active, they have very little risk if used correctly by an intelligent person

[Heinsbeans]

Another update:

 

After speaking with the Sleep specialist, it turns out that my cause for Delayed Sleep Phase Sydrome (not being able to fall asleep until 5:00AM and wake up until 12:00PM) was due to me working night shifts as a waiter which I usually don't finish until 12:00AM. I tend to not be able to sleep for hours after doing night shifts since while I'm working night shifts, I always drink coffee which I need to function. But obviously, drinking coffee at night is not a good idea for sleep. Second reason I can't sleep after doing night shift is because of the high stress/cortisol that comes from working as a waiter at a fast paced restaurant. He didn't think I needed to do any Sleep study or be put on Melatonin but he suggested that I should stop doing night shifts as a waiter since he said some people are not built for that kind of jobs. But I still work as a waiter doing night shifts anyway since I need to make money somehow to be able to support myself.

 

After speaking with the Private Psychiatrist, she told me that since I'm only getting partial response to the Lexapro/Escitalopram, I should increase the dosage to 20mg. My doctor suggested the same thing but I haven't got around to it since I already feel like I'm getting sufficient effect from 10mg.

 

My experience with Lexapro/Escitalopram is...

Pros:

- It became easier to be friendly and socialise/talk to strangers/coworkers/customers at work. But it could still be improved since I still don't have friends and tend to isolate myself from others.

- I think I became slightly smarter.

- I'm less anxious, depressed and have less negative thoughts which started to happen after going on Roaccutane.

- Since SSRI is making me feel better, I don't have as much intention to try cutting edge nootropics anymore which I used to self-medicate with e.g. piracetam attack dosing, noopept, nicotine gum etc. which is a good sign since I was on a verge of messing up my brain by experimenting with so many nootropics.

 

Cons:

- It's doing nothing to my motivation, concentration, attentiveness/alertness, making quick decisions, reacting faster at work etc. And I'm still dependent on coffee for those cognitive abilities.

- It has somewhat lowered my motivation so now I have even less motivation to learn to drive and look for a job which I'm supposed to be doing.

 

The Psychiatrist said I should try a low dose(30mg) of Cymbalta/Duloxetine (SSNRI) instead which she believes is going to work better for me than the higher dose(20mg) of Lexapro/Escitalopram (SSRI). So I'm going to be trying that pretty soon and see how I go with it. She also wants me to get tested for full blood count, lipid panel, LH/FSH, testosterone, random cortisol and thyroid function test(TFT). I can't read all of her writing but these tests (imgur image) are what she told me to get tested for. I actually already requested to have these tests (imgur image) from a doctor but I haven't got around to doing it yet; so I might as well do both of them.

 

For brain supplements/nootropics, I've recently ordered Lecithin, Phosphatidylcholine and Phosphatidylserine from iHerb. I'm going to see if they're going to do anything for me. I still haven't tried Uridine Monophosphate yet because I'm scared of the side effects (DNA damage) which I've heard can happen from Uridine increasing the demand for Folic acid and depleting them.

Edited by Heinsbeans, 15 October 2015 - 12:30 PM.

[Sleepdealer]

Hi Heinsbeans.

 

Have read through some of whats going on here. Looking forward to read about your reaction to Cymbalta/Duloxetine and how your test panels come out. I find it a bit weird that they don't start by doing that, or a neuro transmitter panel to begin with, before starting a specific treatment. Good to hear that you are getting some progress with some of these issues of yours however. I suffer from some of the same symptoms, like low motivation and ambition, some social anxiety, social awkwardness, withdrawn, no desire to socialize, although not dumb, which people sometimes may think because of the presentation they get. Anyway. Good luck for now.

[Nietzsche]

Try Uridine. Take it with methylfolate to prevent the DNA damage issue. I think Uridine is a good bet for you. It has helped me, with somewhat similar issues.

[123apk]

I've been kind of like you at times, lacking motivation. I think it's related to depression or anxiety a lot of the time. I knew what I wanted to do and haphazardly went about doing them though - going to college, getting a job, getting an apartment, etc. It gets a lot better when you've got something to get up for believe it or not.

I can still be lazy, lack motivation and energy on days off but when it's a work day and I have to drag myself out of bed and have a rushed routine in the morning followed by a day of work, eventually it becomes a routine and something you do, then you have to do other things like arrange transport, pay bills, get a apartment when you've got money and after work you're already in the state of mind where you've been doing stuff all day so you might as well continue so it all falls into place and you just do it.. then you go home and rest.

 

But of course you can start to lag at work or whatever else you do and I had that in the past. Plus you want to be feeling motivated more. For me I found eating high protein meals and using the supplements Phenibut (acts on GABA but also slightly stimulating), Rhodiola rosea (lowers stress hormones and decreases adrenal fatigue - which I probably had at times in the past and what it sounds like you have since it's linked to lack of motivation) and tyrosine (to give me a bit of stimulation and drive, but not too much) work wonders.

 

Only thing I'd say about Phenibut is when you've done a days work on it and it starts to wear off (for me not long before the end of work which works out well), sometimes when it wears off you just crash. Like I can get home after a long productive day and physically and mentally challenging work and sit down and relax for a bit. Then I can feel not just my eyes get heavy but my brain suddenly I'm going asleep and it is sudden. Like you get startled when you notice yourself dozing off so quickly. But like I said, this is from a very physical job and one where I also have to use my brain a lot.

 

Like dude, I have social anxiety and have had mild depression at times. I have social anxiety but I lead a small team of people at work, I have to be social and motivated, I have to get the job done and deal with people's crap to provide a living for myself and to survive. I never thought I'd be doing this, when I was a teenager the thought of working in such a job worried me, I always had ambitions on a quiet job where I'd be on my own all day (such jobs are hard to come by).

Get some supplements to reduce adrenal fatigue and some to reduce depression or anxiety if you have them (I only skim read what you wrote, sorry). Try to eat decently, I'm the worst for this because I'm skinny and skip meals a lot and sometimes eat crap for like a week (like ramen noodles and chips), but I feel better after a high protein, high fat meal and spicy foods too (remember reading something about chillis being good for testosterone and endorphins or something which probably affects motivation). Weirdly I don't really respond to energy drinks.

But do those, but most importantly establish a routine! It's hard to do when you've got nothing urgent to get up for, but when you have to get up and do stuff because it's work and you need the money you suddenly become much more motivated.

 

So supplements, routine, diet. Have an aim and get it. Good luck, you'll make it.

[Heinsbeans]

I've been taking Cymbalta for the past 30 days and here's my experience on it so far:

Good:

• ↑ Need even less coffee to function more than Escitalopram
• ↑ My attention to detail has slighlty improved
• ↑ My mental clarity and endurance has slightly improved
• ↑ My motivation has slightly improved

Bad:

• ↓ My motivation and attention to detail is still isn’t good enough for me to get myself to look for a job and learn to drive.
• ↓ Start yawning and feeling sleepy few hours after taking Cymbalta

 

After my second appointment with the psychiatrist, she told me to start taking 60mg Cymbalta and after that, I might possibly have to go up to 90mg. It's been 3 days on 60mg and I've became a lot more antisocial and it's hard for me to smile anymore which is essential for my job as a waiter....

 

I'm thinking about ditching SNRIs and going back to SSRIs instead. I kind of regret listening to my psychiatrist and switching to SNRIs(which is a relatively new class of antidepressants) so quickly without trying other tried and tested SSRIs first(e.g. Prozac, Zoloft) or increasing the dosage on Lexapro. 

 

I've realised that the whole point of antidepressants is to reduce anxiety and depression; it's not to improve cogntion by raising neurotransmitter levels. I was thinking that since SNRIs also inhibits reuptake of norepinephrine, it would somehow improve my attention to detail, clarity in thinking, memory, motivation and reduce my dependence on coffee. 

 

I was hoping that my psychiatrist made the right decision for me considering that I pay $120 for each appointment with her, this is my second appointment with her and she made another one. I'm not wealthy, I'm basically unemployed(not getting much hours) and getting my money assistance from welfare so I'm spending the money that I should be spending on food and rent just to see her. I believe it would have been better if I tried all popular SSRIs first before jumping to SNRIs. Because now, if it turns out SNRIs isn't for me, I'm going to have a nasty withdrawal from down-regulated norepinephrine receptors. Whereas If I was only on SSRIs, it would've been easier to switch to other types of SSRIs and overcome withdrawals since SSRIs only targets serotonin.

 

So since my psychiatrist doesn't seem to be making the best choices for me, I'm considering cancelling my next appointment with her and getting my antidepressant medication from my normal doctor instead since they seem to take the most logical route(experimenting with tried and tested SSRIs and increasing the dosage on it before jumping to relatively new class of antidepresants such as SNRIs)

Edited by Heinsbeans, 13 November 2015 - 05:40 AM.

[Heinsbeans]

Here's the summarized version of my cognitive issues: 

• https://www.reddit.c...verence_mental/
• https://www.reddit.c...ychiatrist_and/

 

Because my brain has adapted to high levels of serotonin from SSRIs/SNRIs, if I miss a dose of 60mg Cymbalta, and the withdrawals starts to kick in, I become very depressed now which wasn't an issue before. If non-depressed people take antidepressants and they get a withdrawal from it, do they start feeling depressed? If so, I feel like that's what happening to me...

 

The main reason why I went to see a doctor wasn't because of an issue with depression, but it was an issue with my attentiveness/alertness, mental energy/perseverance, memory and motivation which was making me feel negative about myself. But sure enough, my doctor told me that these cognitive impairments are caused by my "depression" and they should go away once I go on SSRIs. But now, I genuingly become depressed now because of SSRIs/SNRIs withdrawal...

 

I've been experimenting with nootropics while on antidepressants and here's what it has been like so far (of course, I'm not taking SNRIs and nootropics at the same time):

• I've tried 100mg phenylpiracetam for the first time at work while being sleep deprived and I couldn't believe how well it worked on me. Problem solving and thinking ahead became so much easier when I usually struggle on my feet. The effect only lasted for about 3 hours though and gradually faded away. I've heard that tolerance develops very quickly so I can only use it when I really need it.
• I've also been taking 250mg Uridine + Swanson Ultra Activated B-complex / Jarrow B-Right + 300mg Alpha GPC almost daily. Uridine seems to improve my mood a little from the dopamine boost which is nice.
• I don't really feel much acute effect from noopept but it definitely does something and seems to help my brain work more efficiently. I've read that noopept is more of a long-term potentiation nootropic that you should cycle every 3 months.

 

From my experience with antidepressants so far, SSRIs barely did anything positive for me except demotivating me, worsening my memory, making me not care about anything in life and making me feel happy in a stupefied sense, how am I supposed to survive having jobs with that?? I'm glad I saw a psychiatrist since SNRIs works a bit better by slightly increasing my attention to detail, mental energy, memory recall and motivation but it's not perfect since I'm still heavily dependent on caffeine to function. Cymbalta's serotonin to noradrenaline reuptake ratio is 10:1 so it mainly affects the serotonin but I'm still noticing most of the benefits from noradrenaline reuptake. So perhaps what I should be taking is NRIs or DRIs, not SSRIs since my main cognitive issue was not depression. That was the by-product of having impaired cognitive function due to whatever reason(e.g. inheriting dysfunctional neurotransmitter genes) My psychiatrists is thinking about upping my Cymbalta dosage to 120mg but I don't want to increase my serotonin levels any further since I feel like I'm getting more than enough. 

 

So I either want to try NRIs (or even DRIs/SDRIs) but I'm not sure if my psychiatrist is going to let me experiment with those since I don't show any signs of ADHD. Is there anything I can say to my psychiatrist that might convince her that my impaired cognition isn't caused by 'depression' and let me try NRIs/DRIs?

Edited by Heinsbeans, 28 November 2015 - 11:19 AM.

[Dichotohmy]

Sounds like you should give bupoprion a try if its a motivating NRI you want. Dopaminergic activity is very limited, but bup helps a little with focus as well. AFAIK, its still not available in AU for depression, but you can lie and say you want some zyban (bupoprion) to aid in stopping smoking. The drug is also cheap to buy from an online pharmacy if you stay away from the sustained release forms (which many users seem to report issues with when using generic brands of the SR).

[Heinsbeans]

I've just had another appointment with my psychiatrist today. As expected, she wanted to me to start taking 90mg Cymbalta and she wants me to eventually go up to 120mg. I've explained to her that I feel like I'm already getting enough serotonin inhibition and their claimed benefits(reduced anxiety/depression). And that at this point, I feel like I'm getting most of the benefits from norepinephrine inhibition(increased alertness and mental energy). But she still wants me to increase the dosage even higher.

 

I was considering taking SSRIs like Lexapro and NRIs like Strattera to be able to tweak serotonin and norepinephrine re-uptake inhibition individually. But I've heard that many people dislike being on Strattera so I guess it's not as simple as taking SSRIs and NRIs to individually tweak serotonin and norepinephrine re-uptake inhibition levels. But are there any other Selective Norepinephrine Inhibitor that works well?  Also, is it a bad idea to do this and is it worse than just taking SNRIs? The problem I see with SNRIs is that you can't tweak serotonin and norepinephrine re-uptake inhibition levels individually, so if you’re still not getting enough in one, you have to increase the other as well.

 

I asked her what she thinks about Wellbutrin(NDRIs) + SSRIs which is supposed to mimic the effects of triple re-uptake inhibitor(SNDRIs) that's coming soon as a next generation antidepressant. But she got angry and said I haven't even been on the highest dosage of Cymbalta yet. So she's not interested in switching me to any other antidepressants until I fully give Cymbalta its chance. I must admit, Cymbalta is helping with my attention and mental energy and it's working significantly better than Escitalopram.

 

The only issue I see with Wellbutrin is that it seems to be an anti-nootropic because it is a anti-cholinergic and known to cause memory issues in some people. It's also supposed to be cytotoxic which is concerning. But at the time, it also seems to be a life changing drug for those who are lacking in dopamine so it might be worth the trade for me.

 

I think that for most people with just simple depression, SSRIs works sufficiently for them because they aren't suffering from any other cognitive issues like problem with attention, motivation, mental energy, memory and dependence on caffeine to function. But for me, since I have these cognitive issues, I was thinking that it'd probably be better to inhibit all three neurotransmitters(dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin) since I doubt my cognitive issues are caused by a single monoamine neurotransmitter.

 

My psychiatrist also mentioned that she's been wanting to put me on antipsychotic medication like paliperidone in combination with Cymbalta. But after doing a quick google search, it seems to have more downsides overall(e.g. lowering brain grey matter and shrinking brain size long-term) than upsides so I've decided not to take it. Was I right with my decision or is anti-psychotic drugs really worth taking for my condition?

 

100mg Phenylpiracetam before work seems to be helping with my motivation, thinking ability/problem solving and mental energy quite substantially. But unfortunately, I've already developed tolerance to it after taking it just 3 times. I've read in reddit that you can only use it once every 2 weeks to avoid tolerance. I'm also going to continue taking the uridine stack since the dopamine receptor up-regulation effect sounds promising.

 

The only other nootropic I'm interested in that might have the potential to help me(besides uridine, phenylpiracetam and noopept) is NSI-189. And it seems to have just passed Phase 1b clinical trial which is good news. Does anyone know where I can get NSI-189 from?

 

Lastly, I've considered CNS stimulants like Methylphenidate which are used off-label by a lot of college students to help them stay motivated and concentrate on studies. But they seem unsafe to take for those who don't have ADHD long-term because of its potential neurotoxicity and addiction/withdrawal. Modafinil is supposed to be a safer alternative to methylphenidate but it's still probably not a good idea to take them regularly and probably not appropriate for my condition. Having said that, low-dose methyphenidate/modafinil once in a blue moon when I really need them might probably be safe but either way, it's impossible to get prescription drugs unless I'm diagnosed anyway so it's not an option for me.

Edited by Heinsbeans, 10 December 2015 - 08:10 AM.