20 replies to this topic

[happy lemon]

Many of us are looking for so-called holy grail sunscreen with broad spectrum of UV protection on one hand and cosmetically elegant on the other.

 

I have been using the Face and Body Sunscreen of Burnout for a while and am happy with it, except one thing that I hope Burnout can improve is to make water resistant or sweat resistant.

 

However, when I do outdoor activities and stay outdoor for more than 4 hours, I wonder if Burnout can protect me well.

 

Thus, I am in search of chemical sunscreens which contain Tinosorb (S and or M) which are photostable and not greasy.  Also, it must not contain avobenzone, though it can be stabilized by Tinosorb.  Without knowing how much of Tinosorb can stabilize a certain percentage of avobenzone, I will not take the risk of using avobenzone.

 

Many Japanese sunscreens have Tinsorb S (you may find the ingredient in http://www.ratzillacosme.com/)and they are cosmetically elegant as well.  However, I doubt if they can protect me well (http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/78847-sunscreens/?view=findpost&p=729772).

 

Lately, I have found 2 European brands of sunscreen that contain Tinosorb S and/or Tinosorb M, without avobenzone, it is rarely found in European sunscreens.

 

The first one is Daylong

 

http://www.daylong.com/

 

Of those products of Daylong (SPF 30 and above), I have found 3 sunscreens can meet my 2 criteria:  without avobenzone and contain Tinosorb S & M.

 

 

1.  Daylong™ extreme SPF 50+ Gel

Ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate 9.99%
Diethylamino Hydroxybenzoyl Hexyl Benzoate (Uvinul A Plus) 7.5%
BisEthylhexyloxyphenol Methoxyphenyl Triazine (Tinosorb S) 5%
Ethylhexyl Triazone (Uvinul T 150) 1%
Methylene bis-benzotriazolyl tetramethylbutylphenol (Tinosorb M) 1%

 

http://www.cosdna.co...3ef3175954.html

 

2.  Daylong™ ultra face SPF 30 Gelfluid

Ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate 10%
Diethylamino Hydroxybenzoyl Hexyl Benzoate (Uvinul A Plus) 5%

BisEthylhexyloxyphenol Methoxyphenyl Triazine (Tinosorb S) 4.5%

 

http://www.cosdna.co...dcdf172035.html

 

3.  Daylong™ kids SPF 50+ Lotion

Diethylamino Hydroxybenzoyl Hexyl Benzoate (Uvinul A Plus) 5%
Ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate  5%
BisEthylhexyloxyphenol Methoxyphenyl Triazine (Tinosorb S) 4%
Methylene bis-benzotriazolyl tetramethylbutylphenol(nano) (Tinosorb M) 3%
Ethylhexyl Triazone (Uvinul T 150) 3%

 

http://www.cosdna.co...61fb145051.html(it does not list in the link but I got the percentage from another webpage).

 

I have purchased all these 3 sunscreens.

 

As I am living in Asia and the summer here is very humid; I find that Ultra face SPF 30 is the lightest one and no sticky.

 

Unlike the comments of other people, I do find that the SPF 50 Gel &  SPF 50 Kid Lotion are very shiny; though the former is less oily than the latter (most probably Kid Lotion is of liposomal lotion).

 

http://animetric.blo...een-review.html

http://www.projectva...een-philippines

http://www.earthling...y-gel-light-gel

 

I have used the BASF Sunscreen Simulator, the SPF rating of these 3 sunscreens matches what they claim, and the UVA protection is over 371 nm.

 

 

Another brand of sunscreen without avobenzone is Heliocare.

 

The latest product range of Heliocare 360.

 

http://heliocare.com...il-free-spf-50/

http://heliocare.com...d-cream-spf-50/

http://heliocare.com...-airgel-spf-50/

 

From the net, I know that Fluid Cream & Airgel are shiny and quite greasy, so I have only purchased the Oil Free one.

 

It is very light which is good for me who is living in Asia.

 

As i cannot find the percentage of those UV filters used in those 3 sunscreens, I acnnot use the BASF Sunscreen Simulator to verify the SPF & UVA rating.  That said, from the tube, Heliocare says that it is >370nm.

 

If anyone of you has found chemical sunscreen which is without avobenzone and non greasy, please let me know.

 

[nowayout]

Avobenzone is only one of many ingrediants we may have to worry about:

 

 

Int J Androl. 2012 Jun;35(3):424-36. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-2605.2012.01280.x.

Sunscreens: are they beneficial for health? An overview of endocrine disrupting properties of UV-filters.

Krause M¹, Klit A, Blomberg Jensen M, Søeborg T, Frederiksen H, Schlumpf M, Lichtensteiger W, Skakkebaek NE, Drzewiecki KT.

Author information

Abstract

Today, topical application of sunscreens, containing ultraviolet-filters (UV-filters), is preferred protection against adverse effects of ultraviolet radiation. Evidently, use of sunscreens is effective in prevention of sunburns in various models. However, evidence for their protective effects against melanoma skin cancer is less conclusive. Three important observations prompted us to review the animal data and human studies on possible side effects of selected chemical UV-filters in cosmetics. (1) the utilization of sunscreens with UV-filters is increasing worldwide; (2) the incidence of the malignant disorder for which sunscreens should protect, malignant melanoma, is rapidly increasing and (3) an increasing number of experimental studies indicating that several UV-filters might have endocrine disruptive effects. The selected UV-filters we review in this article are benzophenone-3 (BP-3), 3-benzylidene camphor (3-BC), 3-(4-methyl-benzylidene) camphor (4-MBC), 2-ethylhexyl 4-methoxy cinnamate (OMC), Homosalate (HMS), 2-ethylhexyl 4-dimethylaminobenzoate (OD-PABA) and 4-aminobenzoic acid (PABA). The potential adverse effects induced by UV-filters in experimental animals include reproductive/developmental toxicity and disturbance of hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis (HPT). Few human studies have investigated potential side effects of UV-filters, although human exposure is high as UV-filters in sunscreens are rapidly absorbed from the skin. One of the UV-filters, BP-3, has been found in 96% of urine samples in the US and several UV-filters in 85% of Swiss breast milk samples. It seems pertinent to evaluate whether exposure to UV-filters contribute to possible adverse effects on the developing organs of foetuses and children.

 

[Heyman]

Can you tell me something about how the Daylong SPF 30 is cosmetically e.g. compared to the Biore UV Aqua Rich Watery Essence? The ingredients seem to be very good!

[happy lemon]

Daylong is just like a lotion, not thick.

[Heyman]

Daylong is just like a lotion, not thick.

 

May I ask why you made this thread then? I mean you are still looking for a good sunscreen apparently, but the Daylong seems to be cosmetically pleasing, well-protecting and so on.. Why are you still searching, what is wrong about it? Was about to order the Daylong..

Edited by Heyman, 01 June 2015 - 09:50 PM.

[happy lemon]

Nothing wrong with Daylong and I love using it.

 

The reason why I am looking for another sunscreen is because Daylong is not available in my country.  Those 3 Daylong that I had were gifts from my friend who went to Germany for vacation last month.

 

I have checked with many online pharmacy and shops (including Amazon Germany), no one will ship Daylong to my country except one shop; however, the minimum shipping fee is EUR 80 per order, so.....

 

Another reason why I started this thread was to share info with others who could not get inorganic / mineral based sunscreen in their countries especially in Europe or with those who do not like the white cast of inorganic sunscreen.

[Heyman]

Another reason why I started this thread was to share info with others who could not get inorganic / mineral based sunscreen in their countries especially in Europe or with those who do not like the white cast of inorganic sunscreen.

 

Thank you very much! I'll order the Daylong now, you certainly helped me.

[happy lemon]

Just tried it in a shop last weekend; a bit greasy but the ingredients & the percentage look good.

 

http://skinhealth.co...duct/sensitive/

 

Tinosorb S 2.5%

Tinosorb M 2.5%

Zinc Oxide 5%

4-Methylbenzylidene Camphor 1%

 

I used the BASF Simulator to see how good the UV protection would be.  The SPF rating is 15 & the critical wavelength is 379 nm.

 

 

[TheFountain]

What's the deal with Heliocare? I've been wanting to try the 90 spf gel for a while but there's precious little to no reviews anywhere.

Edited by TheFountain, 26 February 2016 - 01:42 PM.

[happy lemon]

There is another chemical sunscreen without Avobenzone.

 

http://ww4.sinaimg.c...j318g0xbqgl.jpg

 

When I do outdoor activities, I put either Uriage or Daylong under Burnout, peace of mind!

[TheFountain]

There is another chemical sunscreen without Avobenzone.

 

http://ww4.sinaimg.c...j318g0xbqgl.jpg

 

When I do outdoor activities, I put either Uriage or Daylong under Burnout, peace of mind!

 

How is uriage and daylong different than neutrogena sheer touch? And how does that difference treat your skin? 

[happy lemon]

All Daylong make my skin shiny, even those which say oil free.  The most greasy one is the Daylong kids SPF 50+ Lotion.  I believe the reason is that all contain Tinosorb M.

 

Uriage Kids that I am using is much much less shiny, non greasy as well; if you live in a dry climate, you may find it invisible.

http://www.uriage.co...enfants-spf50-2

 

I have also tried Uriage Sensitive which is perfect in the sense that it is invisible even I live in a humid climate; however, it contains Avobenzone.

 

Now, when I spend over 3 hours outdoor, I will put Daylong under Burnout.

 

[happy lemon]

I have never tried Neutrogena, so I cannot give you my comment.

[spring string]

Hi happy lemon,

Thank you for your recommendations.
I have been reading the old threads related to sunscreen and I really really learnt a lot fom all of you （I just found this forum a while ago and I am glad I did)

I thought I read in your previous threads that you were using Allie. May I ask why would you change this choice?

I am currently trying to use Allie (both perfect alpha and Neo) and hope it work for me (I have a super acne-prone skin, every US/EU sunscreen I tried cause breakouts). So far I only found that Biore (or possibly other similar Japanese sunscreen) doesn't cause acne.

I really wish I can tolerate Allie as it seems to provide good protection, and it forms a very strong film on the skin (although it appears to make my skin " difficult to breathe" as I experience some small acnes - that's why I am still observing if I tolerate it). It is cheap as well, I got it ~5 US dollar per oz.

Have you tried Olay white radiance ultra UV protective fluid spf30 PA+++ before? It has OMC 9%, Tinosorb M 7%, Tinosorb S 0.8%. seems quite good Tinosorb level? Yet I cannot tolerate it (acne again) despite it's light weight texture.

Edited by spring string, 08 April 2016 - 01:44 PM.

[happy lemon]

Hi happy lemon,

 

......I thought I read in your previous threads that you were using Allie. May I ask why would you change this choice?......

Have you tried Olay white radiance ultra UV protective fluid spf30 PA+++ before? It has OMC 9%, Tinosorb M 7%, Tinosorb S 0.8%. seems quite good Tinosorb level? Yet I cannot tolerate it (acne again) despite it's light weight texture.

 

In view of its high ZnO percantage (17.69%) with negligible white cast , I worry that the ZnO of Allie (in fact, most Japanese sunscreens) is of nano one.  The UVA protection of ZnO is much weaker than non nano one. 

 

That said, the UVB protection of Allie is excellent; I do use it when I go swimming and do not get any sunburn.

 

For Olay, I bought one bottle but did not use it after one or two days; the reason I did not like it was because the fragrance was too strong for me and it was greasy too.

[Brett Black]

 

Hi happy lemon,

 

......I thought I read in your previous threads that you were using Allie. May I ask why would you change this choice?......

Have you tried Olay white radiance ultra UV protective fluid spf30 PA+++ before? It has OMC 9%, Tinosorb M 7%, Tinosorb S 0.8%. seems quite good Tinosorb level? Yet I cannot tolerate it (acne again) despite it's light weight texture.

 

In view of its high ZnO percantage (17.69%) with negligible white cast , I worry that the ZnO of Allie (in fact, most Japanese sunscreens) is of nano one.  The UVA protection of ZnO is much weaker than non nano one. 

 

That said, the UVB protection of Allie is excellent; I do use it when I go swimming and do not get any sunburn.

 

For Olay, I bought one bottle but did not use it after one or two days; the reason I did not like it was because the fragrance was too strong for me and it was greasy too.

 

 

 

Are you worried about zinc nanoparticle because they are nano scale? Because Tinosorb M and Tinosorb A2B both contain nanoparticles too:
http://www.personal-...er.pdf?sfvrsn=6
 

[Brett Black]

 

 

Hi happy lemon,

 

......I thought I read in your previous threads that you were using Allie. May I ask why would you change this choice?......

Have you tried Olay white radiance ultra UV protective fluid spf30 PA+++ before? It has OMC 9%, Tinosorb M 7%, Tinosorb S 0.8%. seems quite good Tinosorb level? Yet I cannot tolerate it (acne again) despite it's light weight texture.

 

In view of its high ZnO percantage (17.69%) with negligible white cast , I worry that the ZnO of Allie (in fact, most Japanese sunscreens) is of nano one.  The UVA protection of ZnO is much weaker than non nano one. 

 

That said, the UVB protection of Allie is excellent; I do use it when I go swimming and do not get any sunburn.

 

For Olay, I bought one bottle but did not use it after one or two days; the reason I did not like it was because the fragrance was too strong for me and it was greasy too.

 

 

 

Are you worried about zinc nanoparticle because they are nano scale? Because Tinosorb M and Tinosorb A2B both contain nanoparticles too:
http://www.personal-...er.pdf?sfvrsn=6
 

 

 

Oh, reading that again, it seems you're concerned about the reduced UVA protection from nano zinc oxide(compared to larger zinc particle), not that it contains nanoparticles.

 

 

[happy lemon]

You are correct Brett.

 

From Eva's post & EWG info, nano is weaker in UVA protection.

 

http://www.ewg.org/2...s-in-sunscreen/

 

"......The shape and size of the particles affect sun protection? The smaller they are, the better the SPF protection and the worse the UVA protection. Manufacturers must strike a balance: small particles provide greater transparency but larger particles offer greater UVA protection. The form of zinc oxide most often used in sunscreens is larger and provides greater UVA protection than the titanium dioxide products that appear clear on the skin......"

[spring string]

I have the same worry as you happy lemon, that Allie is of nano and has weaker UVA protection.

 

On the other hand, Eva has once commented Perfect Alpha on Amazon that "This sunscreen has excellent UVA protection, PPD 16 or more (ADVAN Barrier Technology), non-whitening and has a silky matte finish. Non-oily and ideal for oily skin-types" So I am inclined to assume the ADVAN technology used by Kao confers Allie/Sofina a much stronger UVA protection than the other nano counterparts (if Allie is of nano) (e.g. Orbis). I assume this technology retains bigger particle sizes in the final product while minimizing the whiteness. Yet but who knows what particle sizes the product really are?

 

Anyway, Allie appears to clog my pores, so I am going to try Daylong. From the website, spf 50 extreme fulid and ultra face spf 30 are oil-free, does that mean Tinosorb S used in the products are dispensed in water? if so, according to the basf simulator, it also has protection at the very end of UVA spectrum which sounds very good to me.

 

I also want to try Burnout as well, how are the four types different in the texture and whiteness? I read people said that Eco-sensentive is the least greasy. And I guess the Ocean tested is the most greasy since it contain avocado oil, virgin hemp seed oil.

 

I also notice that Eco-sensitive has aloe barbadensis leaf juice, is it basically same as aloe vera? I remember Eva said that Aloe Vera has been linked to make skin more sensitive to UVR damage. http://www.longecity...launched/page-5

Do you worry about that?

 

Thanks

 

 

[happy lemon]

I have the same worry as you happy lemon, that Allie is of nano and has weaker UVA protection.

 

On the other hand, Eva has once commented Perfect Alpha on Amazon that "This sunscreen has excellent UVA protection, PPD 16 or more (ADVAN Barrier Technology), non-whitening and has a silky matte finish. Non-oily and ideal for oily skin-types" So I am inclined to assume the ADVAN technology used by Kao confers Allie/Sofina a much stronger UVA protection than the other nano counterparts (if Allie is of nano) (e.g. Orbis). I assume this technology retains bigger particle sizes in the final product while minimizing the whiteness. Yet but who knows what particle sizes the product really are?

 

Anyway, Allie appears to clog my pores, so I am going to try Daylong. From the website, spf 50 extreme fulid and ultra face spf 30 are oil-free, does that mean Tinosorb S used in the products are dispensed in water? if so, according to the basf simulator, it also has protection at the very end of UVA spectrum which sounds very good to me.

 

I also want to try Burnout as well, how are the four types different in the texture and whiteness? I read people said that Eco-sensentive is the least greasy. And I guess the Ocean tested is the most greasy since it contain avocado oil, virgin hemp seed oil.

 

I also notice that Eco-sensitive has aloe barbadensis leaf juice, is it basically same as aloe vera? I remember Eva said that Aloe Vera has been linked to make skin more sensitive to UVR damage. http://www.longecity...launched/page-5

Do you worry about that?

 

Thanks

For Burnout, I use SPF 30 Face & Body and have not tried others yet.

 

Regarding the aloe vera, you may find the posts of EDS useful.

 

http://www.essential...hlight=#6528211

[spring string]

The link is very useful, thank you.

 

Just wonder does anyone know the percentages of the UV filters in Uriage? (couldn't find anywhere)