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Piracetam: How to recover from its ill effects

piracetam nootropic side-effects brain fog depression drowsiness irritability headache twitch hypothalamus

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#1 Seganfredo

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 10:19 AM


I started this thread to join ideas on when/how to use Piracetam, when to avoid it, and to spread awereness about the need to be careful with it. So, if it's not your cup o'tea and you're in love with the substance, I totally understand - but please understand it's good practice to spread awareness so people can take educated decisions, and respect it. Also, on a more positive note and even more important, this thread is about gathering info on how to (quickly) recover oneself from any undesirable effects it may cause (revert and heal any possible hypothalamic oxidative stress and dysregulation). This is certainly precious information to many that can't be easily found, currently.

 

While it needs to be asserted that many people do enjoy benefits from Piracetam, many others don't get any response from it. Now, it turns out it can also have very serious and predictable side effects that aren't that uncommon at all.

Piracetam *IS* potentially harmful - tenfold what people wrongly assume it to be basing themselves on studies of very dubious quality and low scientific rigor.

 

Commonly reported undesirable effects include:

  1. Brain fog - from severe to light ¹, ², ³;
  2. Depression ¹, ²;
  3. Tiredness - from severe to light ¹, ², ³
  4. Anhedonia  ¹, ³
  5. Apathy / lack of motivation ¹, ²
  6. Drowsiness - from severe to mild ¹, ², ³
  7. Insomnia ¹, ²
  8. Irritatability/tension - from severe to mild ¹, ², ³
  9. Headaches - severe ¹ mild/light ¹, ², ³
  10. Lowered IQ/cognitive decline (long/short-term memory, slow/faulty thought formulation, absent mindedness, etc) - all, from severe to light ¹, ², ³

 

Less commonly reported undesirable effects include:

  1. Muscle twitches/convulsions (eyes, hands, feet) - severe ¹, - mild/light ¹, ², ³
  2. Distortion on the perception of time (minutes seem hours, days seem hours, a week seems a couple of days) ¹, ²
  3. Lowered verbal fluency/eloquence (spelling mistakes, difficulty retrieving simple words) ¹, ², ³
  4. Foggy/Blurred vision/ strange ocular sensations of tightness; ¹, ²
  5. Poor circulation to body extremities ¹
  6. Sweating palms ¹
  7. Digestive problems/constipation ²
  8. Erectile dysfunction ¹, ² rare ³
  9. Muscle weakness ²

Other reported undesirable effects include:

  1. High HCT (Hemocrit) and Hemoglobin levels ¹
  2. Foul smelling urine ¹
  3. Elder appearance (bags under eyes, bad hair, pale face) ²
  4. Extremely low body temperature (shivering uncrontrollably, blue nails) ¹
  5. Feeling of terror ¹
  6. Bloated stomach ¹, ²
  7. Loss of muscle ²
  8. Inability to practice sports ²
  9. Lowered defense

 

¹ Reported as a short-lived symptom - effect disappeared once Piracetam was discontinued, one got used to it, changed doses, etc.

² Reported as a somewhat persistent symptom - remaining after a while even whitout the drug.

³ Reported as a seemingly chronic and/or a more serious symptom.
 

 

 

 

If you're interested to see some of the self-reports, check this extensive blog entry http://selfhacked.co...with-piracetam/
I personally got many of those side effects, but won't go into my own personal situation as I've posted about it in another thread already ( www.longecity.org/forum/topic/79337-piracetam-effects/ ). Onwards.

 

 

 

The Probable Cause

 

Joseph Cohen - member of this forum and owner of the aforementioned blog - has a theory that Piracetam causes oxidative stress in the hypothalamus (by changing serotonin and dopamine levels, it seems).

That would, in turn, lead to hypothalamic damage and dysregulation which is the probable cause of many (most?) symptoms listed above.

 

He says [added bold],

 

"Due to the abundant reports of brain fog, I would also add 500mg of NAC, just in case piracetam is causing oxidative stress in the brain"

(...)

[original bold]

The two symptoms of brain fog and drowsiness were consistent with my theory that piracetam causes oxidative stress in the hypothalamus.

 

After some research, I found a few studies that confirmed my suspicions:

MDA[a marker for oxidative stress]…. increased in cortex and hippocampus and in cortex, hypothalamus and striatum by the higher dose of vinpocetine or piracetam, respectively along with decreased TAC (total antioxidant capacity)….at their high concentration, these drugs exhibit pro-oxidant properties and increase free radical production or act as a free radical….[Ref.]

 

 

He also adds that some "people are sleep deprived, stressed and engage in many other behaviors that increase oxidative stress of the hypothalamus", which leads to a worsened effect. Also, many "have a hypothalamus that isn’t working optimally".

 

According to the post, people with very healthy hypnothalami are less likely to notice these effects - which does not necessarily mean all is well. Still, while this type of hypothalamic damage doesn't necessarily disappear in a day, it usually does end up healing. Long term issues are well explained by the equally long term dysregulation caused in susceptible people who do many other things that compound the damage. Also, the sleep, irritability and sweat issues reported are probably caused by excessive cortisol release exacerbated by stress and/or overusage of stimulants.

 

 

 

Now, if anyone has any useful information or comment about this, especially about reverting possible damages to the brain caused by Piracetam and fine tuning the hypothalamus back into great shape, please do speak up.


Edited by Seganfredo, 21 July 2015 - 10:42 AM.

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#2 Coffeee

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:16 AM

I still have no idea how to get my sexual function working again after 6 years, high amounts of racetams are the key to effective chemical castration. I bought NAC it does absolutely nothing to help, No Fap is also completely useless to cure ED from racetams. I've tried every mineral and vitamin under the sun. NOTHING WORKS only viagra which gives me nice heart attack like symptoms later on. FML
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#3 Puppalupacus

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 03:42 PM

Come on.  Using selfhacked.com as a reference instantly invalidates any argument.  That entire thread is nothing but a bunch of self-diagnoses gone wrong.  It is unfortunate that with Google, you can now cross-reference anything with anything and confirm your own bias.


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#4 Coffeee

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 06:31 AM

Self hacked is right

Come on. Using selfhacked.com as a reference instantly invalidates any argument. That entire thread is nothing but a bunch of self-diagnoses gone wrong. It is unfortunate that with Google, you can now cross-reference anything with anything and confirm your own bias.


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#5 BioHacker=Life

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 10:55 PM

 

The Probable Cause

 

Joseph Cohen - member of this forum and owner of the aforementioned blog - has a theory that Piracetam causes oxidative stress in the hypothalamus (by changing serotonin and dopamine levels, it seems).

That would, in turn, lead to hypothalamic damage and dysregulation which is the probable cause of many (most?) symptoms listed above.

 

 

...Probably cause? This is broscience bs at it's worse.

 

Piracetam does not in anyway increase oxidative stress at clinically used doses. It is in fact an antioxidant and highly neuroprotective hence why it's shown usefulness in stroke, head injuries, and other neurodegenerative disorders.

 

Your post is similar to a canary with a head injury trying to make sense of a perception piece from Self Hacked written solely to try to discredit Piracetam with cherry picked reports ignoring the massive amounts of clinical data on Piracetam that goes back over 50 years. There's a reason Piracetam was approved in 100 countries and it's not because of it's so called extremely rare side effects presented as somehow relevant to most users.


Edited by BioHacker=Life, 26 January 2019 - 11:00 PM.

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#6 gamesguru

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Posted 27 January 2019 - 12:48 AM

Piracetam does not in anyway increase oxidative stress at clinically used doses. It is in fact an antioxidant and highly neuroprotective hence why it's shown usefulness in stroke, head injuries, and other neurodegenerative disorders.

 

Levadopa shows promise in short-term treatment of parkinsons, yet in the long-term it clearly causes harm.  Vitamin C can both reduce peroxides (anti-oxidant) and reduce metal ions (pro-oxidant).  Ginkgo can promote nerve growth in one brain region while simultaneously promoting excitotoxic stress in a neighboring region.  Different medicines can affect different people differently at different doses.  Proponents of truth often divide themselves into clear opposing camps, when the actual real truth typically falls between in a fog.

 

Many who have experimented extendedly with piracetam have attested to its deleterious side.  Anyone who claims not to experience these is either immune or not paying close attention, regardless they should not presumptuously seek to discredit those who have.

 

I'm not sure simple oxidative stress can explain the all annotated side effects, but it is definitely a player here. The remainder may be explained by a complex interplay between calcium influx, modulation of ADP, PKC and cAMP, as well as dynamics at the ACh, GABA and AMPA receptor sites.  That's what happens when you play with something you think you know everything about: you get unexpected results.


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#7 BioHacker=Life

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 04:23 AM

Levadopa shows promise in short-term treatment of parkinsons, yet in the long-term it clearly causes harm.  Vitamin C can both reduce peroxides (anti-oxidant) and reduce metal ions (pro-oxidant).  Ginkgo can promote nerve growth in one brain region while simultaneously promoting excitotoxic stress in a neighboring region.  Different medicines can affect different people differently at different doses.  Proponents of truth often divide themselves into clear opposing camps, when the actual real truth typically falls between in a fog.

 

Many who have experimented extendedly with piracetam have attested to its deleterious side.  Anyone who claims not to experience these is either immune or not paying close attention, regardless they should not presumptuously seek to discredit those who have.

 

I'm not sure simple oxidative stress can explain the all annotated side effects, but it is definitely a player here. The remainder may be explained by a complex interplay between calcium influx, modulation of ADP, PKC and cAMP, as well as dynamics at the ACh, GABA and AMPA receptor sites.  That's what happens when you play with something you think you know everything about: you get unexpected results.

 

That's debatable many studies show neuroprotective effects of l-dopa.

 

I've seen zero clinical studies where these so called reported deleterious side effects is in any way meaningful for most users. A few case reports has no bearing on the overall research on it. 

 

The blog cites 1 brain injection study for Piracetam when used at od doses for humans utter meaningless to people.

 

Being a pam for glutamate receptors does not equate in cognitive dysfunction. Rather neuroprotective and cognitive enhancing.


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#8 gamesguru

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 11:28 PM

That's debatable many studies show neuroprotective effects of l-dopa.

 

I've seen zero clinical studies where these so called reported deleterious side effects is in any way meaningful for most users. 

 

this is quite serious for long-term treatment patients.  they only get worse in certain departments, look at anyone being treated for parkinsons

L-dopa-induced dopamine synthesis and oxidative stress in serotonergic cells.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23196068

 

Probable Nootropicinduced Psychiatric Adverse Effects: A Series of Four Cases

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4756795/

(see table 1)

  • Psychomotor agitation
  • Dysphoria
  • Dizziness
  • Memory loss
  • Diarrhea

pro glutamate isn't always a great thing.  i'd rather regulate serotonin and dopamine by something like bacopa and let downstream effects wind their way into the glutamate system than hammer it directly.  don't swat a fly with a hammer approach


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#9 BioHacker=Life

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 02:02 AM

this is quite serious for long-term treatment patients.  they only get worse in certain departments, look at anyone being treated for parkinsons

L-dopa-induced dopamine synthesis and oxidative stress in serotonergic cells.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23196068

 

Probable Nootropicinduced Psychiatric Adverse Effects: A Series of Four Cases

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4756795/

(see table 1)

  • Psychomotor agitation
  • Dysphoria
  • Dizziness
  • Memory loss
  • Diarrhea

pro glutamate isn't always a great thing.  i'd rather regulate serotonin and dopamine by something like bacopa and let downstream effects wind their way into the glutamate system than hammer it directly.  don't swat a fly with a hammer approach

 

Here's a fun read on L-DOPA with an excellent section examing studies showing positive effects in humans and animals. Dosage of l-dopa, other meds, severity all play a factor in those with PD less so in those with normal brain functioning. Taking r-lipoic acid and vitamins c with say 50-100 mg I consider relatively safe.

 

All key neurotransmitter can be positively modulated each with differing cognitive or emotional improvement or alteration. L-Theanine alters glutamate and is a safe and useful nootropic.

 

You can safely effect most neurotransmitters but some do require some caution such as GABA, Opioid receptors, and Dopamine due to addiction risk, Serotonin due to Syndrome, etc but you can still modify them.


Edited by BioHacker=Life, 29 January 2019 - 02:04 AM.

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#10 Seganfredo

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 08:44 PM

Four years later… Pretty mixed responses. Good. A debate was really needed and better late than never.

 

Different medicines can affect different people differently at different doses.  Proponents of truth often divide themselves into clear opposing camps, when the actual real truth typically falls between in a fog.

 

Many who have experimented extendedly with piracetam have attested to its deleterious side.  Anyone who claims not to experience these is either immune or not paying close attention, regardless they should not presumptuously seek to discredit those who have.

 

I'm not sure simple oxidative stress can explain the all annotated side effects, but it is definitely a player here. The remainder may be explained by a complex interplay between calcium influx, modulation of ADP, PKC and cAMP, as well as dynamics at the ACh, GABA and AMPA receptor sites.  That's what happens when you play with something you think you know everything about: you get unexpected results.

 

Exactly. Very well said. Hard to believe it has to be openly stated.

 

 

Come on.  Using selfhacked.com as a reference instantly invalidates any argument.  That entire thread is nothing but a bunch of self-diagnoses gone wrong.  It is unfortunate that with Google, you can now cross-reference anything with anything and confirm your own bias.

 

 

Nothing instantly invalidates any arguments, except being close-minded and partial for being emotionally attached to a product or POV. (That's clearly not correlated with rational individuality, but with the thinking of the masses) Let's keep it more fact-based.

 

 

...Probably cause? This is broscience bs at it's worse.

 

Piracetam does not in anyway increase oxidative stress at clinically used doses. It is in fact an antioxidant and highly neuroprotective hence why it's shown usefulness in stroke, head injuries, and other neurodegenerative disorders.

 

Your post is similar to a canary with a head injury trying to make sense of a perception piece from Self Hacked written solely to try to discredit Piracetam with cherry picked reports ignoring the massive amounts of clinical data on Piracetam that goes back over 50 years. There's a reason Piracetam was approved in 100 countries and it's not because of it's so called extremely rare side effects presented as somehow relevant to most users.

 

Not calling you an idiot, like you’re quick to try do to others – but anyone who discredits so quickly a growing body of personal experiences popping everywhere without much thought has got a long way to go. And "aren't that uncommon" isn't "pervasive" or "ubiquitous", you must learn. Delegating all your thinking to secondary knowledge is the lowest type of cognitive laziness or ineptitude (not to mention brutal naïveté). No one's trying to kill your baby - plainly substantiate your point of view dispassionately. 

 

 

-----

 

As stated on the OP, the two relevant points here are 1) the good practice of spreading awareness about the need to be careful with Piracetam so people can take educated decisions and 2) publishing info on how to (quickly) recover oneself from any undesirable effects it may cause.

 

 

...Onwards to that.


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#11 Seganfredo

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:15 PM

Now, to help Coffee and other fellows healing:

 

Floor stress levels, make yourself feel physically/psychologically safe (solve any internal threat-signals, do some BJJ - lol), drastically down-regulate excessive cortisol, REINFORCE YOUR CIRCADIAN PATTERNS, (avoid stimulats INCLUDING COFFEE!!!! – funny that’s your nick, I bet you’ve been a coffee maniac for years/decades too) 

 

 

..and supplement abundantly with Melissa officinalis.

 

 

I’m aware of the simplicity of this contribution, but I gotta go to a party and I’m pressed for time.

 

(I’ll substantiate and expand on it shortly.)


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#12 Αυθόρμητα Επιφάνεια

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 03:29 AM

Personally I had a very bad experience a nightmare with Pir when I was in college

All that hype and when I took it I was confused, felt like shit, depressed, mentally blunt, couldn't concentrate. What a huge disappointment, took it out of my stack.

I'll keep checking this topic, I'd still like to make it work for me.


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#13 BioHacker=Life

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 03:35 AM

Personally I had a very bad experience a nightmare with Pir when I was in college

All that hype and when I took it I was confused, felt like shit, depressed, mentally blunt, couldn't concentrate. What a huge disappointment, took it out of my stack.

I'll keep checking this topic, I'd still like to make it work for me.

 

How did you dose it? Some people take an attack dose or some other nonsense. It's best to start low and slowly increase to 9.6 grams a day. Many people will see side effects if their taking more than their system can handle but in most cases the sides disappear with prolonged use.


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#14 Αυθόρμητα Επιφάνεια

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 04:41 AM

Guy on another topic said it's elevated ACh activity, or rather that u'd better not take choline with racetams. But how or why is pir the trigger??? I mean the mechanism?
 
Check this out Probable Nootropicinduced Psychiatric Adverse Effects: A Series of Four Cases https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4756795/
 
Adverse effects. Piracetam users have reported symptoms of psychomotor agitation, dysphoria, tiredness, dizziness, memory loss, headache, and diarrhea. Many users reported to have neither felt any cognitive improvement nor psychedelic effects after taking piracetam.17-19
 
 
What's the mechanism of those symptoms!? The same that I had. and how to protect against them???

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#15 BioHacker=Life

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 04:48 AM

 

Guy on another topic said it's elevated ACh activity, or rather that u'd better not take choline with racetams. But how or why is pir the trigger??? I mean the mechanism?
 
Check this out Probable Nootropicinduced Psychiatric Adverse Effects: A Series of Four Cases https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4756795/
 
Adverse effects. Piracetam users have reported symptoms of psychomotor agitation, dysphoria, tiredness, dizziness, memory loss, headache, and diarrhea. Many users reported to have neither felt any cognitive improvement nor psychedelic effects after taking piracetam.17-19
 
 
What's the mechanism of those symptoms!? The same that I had. and how to protect against them???

 

 

It's your brain that's the issue. Piracetam is the same chemical no matter who takes it. The only difference is your brain and body is different from others. You could have a mental illness that is worsened by glutamate agonists.

 

But keep in mind these are case reports and very very few. The majority of people respond very well to Piracetam.

 

You had every side effect in these case reports? Are you sure you didn't read that then take Piracetam? ;) You can make yourself feel any side effects if you convince yourself it's going to happen.

 

I would try a lower dose and increase slowly over a month.

 

When did you take it, how much did you take, when did you notice the side effects, and what dose did you use?


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#16 BioHacker=Life

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 04:50 AM

Joseph Cohen - member of this forum and owner of the aforementioned blog - has a theory that Piracetam causes oxidative stress in the hypothalamus (by changing serotonin and dopamine levels, it seems).

That would, in turn, lead to hypothalamic damage and dysregulation which is the probable cause of many (most?) symptoms listed above.

 

 

The biggest joke of the blog. Context is king here.

 

The actual study was done on rats injected with ethidium bromide to cause ms like effects. When the rats received low doses of vinpocetine and piracetam it reversed these effects.

 

"MDA decreased in striatum and cortex by the lower doses of vinpocetine or piracetam"

 

High doses did seem to increase in this study when combined with ethidium but that does not mean you can state 

" Piracetam causes oxidative stress in the hypothalamus" as a general statement. In every other study that looked at Piracetam's effects on oxidative stress it showed a reduction due to multiple causes. See here for all the studies and highlights. 

 

https://www.longecit...-stress-levels/

 

Not all antioxidants protect against every type of oxidate some as expected may have pro-oxidant effects when overdosing or in reaction to certain chemicals. 

 

Oh and I have to know how you decided Piracetam  changes serotonin and dopamine levels from this study since it's not mentioned anywhere in the study.


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#17 Seganfredo

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:34 PM

So, guys. Our objective of discrediting Piracetam for fun and profit has been found out. :'((((
(Truly won’t feed lil c*nt trolls who got little to share but bitching anymore.)
 
Back to helping Coffee and anyone else who's lying about having serious troubles with Pir (because it's such a pure sacred-cow no one can have a problem with it, 'course. But let's pretend.)
 
 
I’ll “mindread” Coffee and maybe other people who have had trouble with Pir: you’re usually stressed, addicted to stimulants (this' basically a given with that nick of yours!), may have a kind of a "warrior" type of worldview, get easily angered, constantly anxious about stuff, have a ton of worries and/or responsibilities, might have even suffered panic attacks (which seems not to be uncommon for overly high-strung ones). Meaning: you pump cortisol like crazy, might have poor emotional health, and have dealt with primary-importance long-term worries in your life which you might consider too-much-of-a-big-deal (which causes you stress and maybe a threat response).
 
I've no idea if this kind of fits you and your worldview. Let me know if it does or not and it'll help me refine my understandings.
 
 
Now, Full Disclosure: My brain MUST be atypical as I DO have a long-term history of heavy "psychological mayhem" (am kinda "crazy" - never said otherwise. But nowadays it's probably even more atypical to have a "typical" brain, isn't it.) Had depersonalization in my teens (which I now assume it’s due to acute stress over violence and constant threat of bodily harm during childhood which - I theorize - might have gotten EBV out of control and caused even worse stress on the system), am as emotional as a crocodile, have unusual hunger patterns (intermittent "faster" for years, which is natural and spontaneous in me - eat like an animal but only once or twice a day), sweat profusely very easily while being of athletic build, am way more thermally-regulated then anyone I know (usually am very warm at any given moment, except under sleep deprivation, when I get shivering cold), did Wim Hof for years (mostly cold immersion every day, but also the breathing - quit that as it gave me pneumonia 3x in 6 stressful months living abroad and studying), am extremely energetic (except when I had a hard crash two months ago for the first time in my life due to both physical and psychological acute stress), satyriasis, slept 3-5 hours a night for two decades plus (after 3 or 6am), long-term severe caffeine abuse, and severe “chronic” depression for years (got over it more than one and a half decade ago by following my researches and studying unorthodox paths to mental health recovery). As I do weight training/bjj (and enjoy merrily fornicating into coital bliss), I take extreme care of good androgen levels and have always been crazy about stimulants, so I had never taken or really researched much about soporifics/tranquilizers before.
 
As many would have noted, these peculiarities may be indicative of an unusual HPA axis (dys)regulation.
 
The HPA axis is involved in threat response (cortisol regulation/stress/fight-flight), and hormones/androgens, catecholamines (I have a weird, non-emotional startle response), mineral balance, circadian rhythm, body temperature, hunger and thirst, parenting/attachment behavior (father brutality issues, as stated), digestion, regulates growth, blood pressure (I have it low), immunity/inflammation, mood/emotions, sexuality/sex organ function and physical energetic patterns/fatigue, thyroid/metabolism, pain relief (I basically don’t feel pain in some moments that I clearly should – including emotional pain), among many others.
 
 
I work in the Health industry and am a last semester premed. While some fellows take 2-6 methylphenidate pills when cramming for exams, only ½ a pill has a huge impact in me. Even a ¼ pill has a clear, noticeable effect. Half a pill quickly has a “bang” with strong anxiolytic effect (nothing ever brought such a calm, focused feeling), heightens my information retrieval and renews cognitive clarity but gives me a depersonalized sight/feeling and makes me crash asleep very strangely (or have irritating “zombie insomnia”) after the effect is gone.
Piracetam has only (very) negative effects and I’ll never come anywhere close that bloody evil thing again. (Oh. I'm lying, obviously.)
 
 
So, here's what I found out so far about recovery:
 
  1. If you're forcing your HPA axis long-term, it needs to rest & recover, obviously.
  2. Stimulants, being high strung, lack of correct sleep, hidration, improper levels of vitamins/minerals and/or body acidity all force your adrenals/hypothalamus/pituitary to keep pumping their juices
  3. You recover/balance by quiting those above and doing the opposite of that: relaxing, putting your circadian rythm back into place, learning how to live laid back and being more easy going in life (stuff just ain't so big of a deal).

Now, Melissa officinalis (lemon balm), has been used for over 2 millennia as a medicine precisely for this (it was well-know even before 300BC). Paracelsus called it the “elixir of life”, and other protoscientists had it as a miracle plant. Thomas Jefferson cultivated it in his garden. Among many other uses, it’s prescribed for internal use as treatment for the nervous system. It induces restorative sleep/reduces insomnia, improves restlessness. anti-stress and anxiolytic (and helps kicking EBV's ass - which can get out control in "unrelaxed" people). 

 

As a good point for you, it's also sexually restorative (at least in females - but I believe it can help everyone who need to restore the nervous system.)

 
Studies about it:
 

From Effect of Melissa officinalis (Lemon balm) on Sexual Dysfunction in Women: A Double- blind, Randomized, Placebo-controlled Study:

“Medicinal plants for traditional medicine are focused on by researchers in different domains of medical science. Many clinical trials have been conducted in this regard to evaluate the effects of these drugs on different domains of FSD; these include study on Ginseng (12), Saffron (13), Elaeagnus angustifolia (14) and Tribulus terrestris (15).

According to Persian Medicine experts (such as Ibn Sina), strong and healthy body is essential for healthy sexual function which is essential for maintaining good health (16).

The valuable book, Canon of Medicine, was written by Ibn Sina (One of the most prominent Iranian scientists between 9 and 14 AD) (17). Chapter 12 of the third volume of this book is related to sexual health, measures and treatment of its disorders. In this chapter, libido is described as "Bah" (15) which explains the cause of decreased sexual desire, signs and treatment of any of the causes in detail (18).

In Persian Medicine sources, weakness of the main organs (heart, brain and live) is one of the leading causes of decreased sexual desire (Bah). Accordingly, strengthening the main organs is the main priority of weak sexual desire treatment (1819). Melissa officinalis is one of the tonic drugs for the main organs in ITM (20). This medicinal herb was mentioned in PM with the name "Badranjboye". The history of use of this medicinal plant is ancient Persia and its cultivation ability in different regions of Iran indicates that it is indigenous, available and it has been used for thousands of years in Iran (21).

 

Recent animal and human studies have shown the different therapeutic applications of M. officinalis which are: as anti-anxiety (24), antidepressants (2526), for improvement of cognitive function and mood (27), for calming and positive effect on the immune system and stress (28), for Alzheimer's disease (29), nervous sleeping disorders and functional gastrointestinal complaints (22). Even though the treatment of nervous debility has been reported to be among the pharmacological effects of M. officinalis in PDR which is used in folk medicine (23), there has not been any trial that evaluated its effect on the improvement of decreased sexual desire in women.

The objective of this study was to evaluate the effect of M. officinalis extract on the improvement of sexual dysfunction in women aged 18 to 50 years.

 

 
Anyone chilled out who will politely develop a line of thought based on rational arguments is most welcome to agree, disagree, question or whatever.

Edited by Seganfredo, 07 February 2019 - 03:02 PM.

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#18 Seganfredo

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:21 PM

Personally I had a very bad experience a nightmare with Pir when I was in college

All that hype and when I took it I was confused, felt like shit, depressed, mentally blunt, couldn't concentrate. What a huge disappointment, took it out of my stack.

I'll keep checking this topic, I'd still like to make it work for me.

 

Exactly same feeling over here: felt brutally disappointed about Pir. I obviously took it hoping it'd have all those amazing effects people describe without all those awful side-effects. (truly "nightmarish")

My objective with this topic is not to hurt Pir's reputation at all. I want to help people who get damaged by it and PERHAPS find a way to use it and get all the benefits without all the horrible side effects. THIS WOULD BE AWESOME.

 

 

 

Guy on another topic said it's elevated ACh activity, or rather that u'd better not take choline with racetams. But how or why is pir the trigger??? I mean the mechanism?
 
Check this out Probable Nootropicinduced Psychiatric Adverse Effects: A Series of Four Cases https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4756795/
 
Adverse effects. Piracetam users have reported symptoms of psychomotor agitation, dysphoria, tiredness, dizziness, memory loss, headache, and diarrhea. Many users reported to have neither felt any cognitive improvement nor psychedelic effects after taking piracetam.17-19
 
 
What's the mechanism of those symptoms!? The same that I had. and how to protect against them???

 

 

Unhappily, I've been busy lately, and I still don't have a clearer understanding of what could be the mechanism except what was mentioned before - possible hypothalamus oxidative stress/HPA dysregulation.
About the study you've mentioned, yeah - that's exactly it.
A way to protect against could be Cohen's idea to "add 500mg of NAC, just in case piracetam is causing oxidative stress in the brain"
But, honestly, I won't be getting anywhere near Pir while I don't have a very good understanding on how to counter its side-effects/use it safely.

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#19 Bubbles

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 08:29 AM

In my country on all piracetam supplements it is written in caps lock, to not stop the intake abruptly and just reduce the dosage each day a little bit until you don't take it at all. A doctor explained me that some of the problems comes from the instant stop use. Been taking piracetam on and off for more than a decade, I'm all good. I still wonder why is it that some people have certain bad side effects from this. My uncle use this since the 80s almost non stop and he's a sharp lad. So why is it he never had the problems listed by OP?

Oh, just realized OP made this post based on that selfhacked article, oh boy, there are so many wrong things with that article I won't even bother.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: piracetam, nootropic, side-effects, brain fog, depression, drowsiness, irritability, headache, twitch, hypothalamus

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