10 replies to this topic

[sshazam]

Greetings,

I've been using Piracetam on and off now for last few years. Sometimes for months and sometimes 6 weeks before my University exams. 

 

I take 1.6grams of piracetam and 500mg of Alcar 3x a day 30 minutes before food and sometimes with an energy drink in the mornings or afternoons. 
For me the effects are just mental clarity, being able to remember things from a few weeks ago during the exam ( like this very much) and it keeps me really relaxed unless I go crazy on the Alcar haha (learned that the hard way). I've never really noticed the vision change, huge appreciation for music or the increased happiness.

 

 

Some people say they can read an entire textbook chapter and never have to study etc and ace exams.

 

I'm wondering if this could be because they supplement with Choline and I don't.

 

How do you know if you should consume choline ? when should you take this source and will eating two boiled eggs a day be enough ? 

Thank you. 

[Blackkzeus]

I don't think Choline would have that profound of an effect. Those people might just naturally have better memories than average. 

[gamesguru]

400-800mg ALCAR

 

Food sources

• Free choline in vegetables (especially cauliflower and lettuce), whole grains, liver, and soy.

• Lecithin (containing 10-20% phosphatidylcholine) in grains, legumes, meat and egg yolks.

 

also worth remembering: https://en.wikipedia...Dietary_sources

[sshazam]

I don't think Choline would have that profound of an effect. Those people might just naturally have better memories than average. 

I would love to be able to have the profound effects like those people ! I'll try eating more meat, legumes and eggs to see if it helps this time. 

 

400-800mg ALCAR

 

Food sources

• Free choline in vegetables (especially cauliflower and lettuce), whole grains, liver, and soy.

• Lecithin (containing 10-20% phosphatidylcholine) in grains, legumes, meat and egg yolks.

 

also worth remembering: https://en.wikipedia...Dietary_sources

I do eat a lot of grains, legumes and meat but i'll try eating more to see if it helps. 

I just really need the Piracetam to work to the full of its ability this time. 

[gamesguru]

Eggs were listed last, but you really want to eat an egg a day... they are the densest source of lecithin, which is 10-20% phosphatidylcholine, which is cash money:

 Administration of phosphatidylcholine increases brain acetylcholine concentration and improves memory in mice with dementia.
Studies on the effect of phosphatidylcholine administration on memory are limited. We administered egg phosphatidylcholine to mice with dementia and to normal mice and compared the differences in memory and serum choline concentration, and choline and acetylcholine concentrations and choline acetyltransferase activities of three forebrain regions (cortex, hippocampus and the remaining forebrain). Mice with dementia were produced by mating sibling mice who had impaired memory for > 20 generations. These mice had poor memory and low brain acetylcholine concentration. We administered 100 mg of egg phosphatidylcholine (phosphatidylcholine group) or water (control group) by gavage to each mouse daily for about 45 d. Control mice with dementia had poorer memory in passive avoidance performance and lower brain choline (cortex and hippocampus) and acetylcholine (hippocampus and forebrain excluding cortex and hippocampus) concentrations and lower cortex choline acetyltransferase activity than the control normal mice (P < 0.05). The administration of phosphatidylcholine to mice with dementia improved memory and generally increased brain choline and acetylcholine concentrations to or above the levels of the control normal mice. In normal mice, phosphatidylcholine treatment did not affect memory or acetylcholine concentrations in spite of the great increase in choline concentrations in the three brain regions. Serum choline concentration in mice treated with phosphatidylcholine increased to a similar level in both strains of mice, indicating that the absorption of phosphatidylcholine was not impaired in mice with dementia. The results suggest that administration of egg phosphatidylcholine to mice with dementia increases brain acetylcholine concentration and improves memory.

 

Cognitive Impairment in Folate-Deficient Rats Corresponds to Depleted Brain Phosphatidylcholine and Is Prevented by Dietary Methionine without Lowering Plasma Homocysteine1,2
Poor folate status is associated with cognitive decline and dementia in older adults. Although impaired brain methylation activity and homocysteine toxicity are widely thought to account for this association, how folate deficiency impairs cognition is uncertain. To better define the role of folate deficiency in cognitive dysfunction, we fed rats folate-deficient diets (0 mg FA/kg diet) with or without supplemental L-methionine for 10 wk, followed by cognitive testing and tissue collection for hematological and biochemical analysis. Folate deficiency with normal methionine impaired spatial memory and learning; however, this impairment was prevented when the folate-deficient diet was supplemented with methionine. Under conditions of folate deficiency, brain membrane content of the methylated phospholipid phosphatidylcholine was significantly depleted, which was reversed with supplemental methionine. In contrast, neither elevated plasma homocysteine nor brain S-adenosylmethionine and S-adenosylhomocysteine concentrations predicted cognitive impairment and its prevention by methionine. The correspondence of cognitive outcomes to changes in brain membrane phosphatidylcholine content suggests that altered phosphatidylcholine and possibly choline metabolism might contribute to the manifestation of folate deficiency-related cognitive dysfunction.
 

 

[sshazam]

 

Eggs were listed last, but you really want to eat an egg a day... they are the densest source of lecithin, which is 10-20% phosphatidylcholine, which is cash money:

 Administration of phosphatidylcholine increases brain acetylcholine concentration and improves memory in mice with dementia.
Studies on the effect of phosphatidylcholine administration on memory are limited. We administered egg phosphatidylcholine to mice with dementia and to normal mice and compared the differences in memory and serum choline concentration, and choline and acetylcholine concentrations and choline acetyltransferase activities of three forebrain regions (cortex, hippocampus and the remaining forebrain). Mice with dementia were produced by mating sibling mice who had impaired memory for > 20 generations. These mice had poor memory and low brain acetylcholine concentration. We administered 100 mg of egg phosphatidylcholine (phosphatidylcholine group) or water (control group) by gavage to each mouse daily for about 45 d. Control mice with dementia had poorer memory in passive avoidance performance and lower brain choline (cortex and hippocampus) and acetylcholine (hippocampus and forebrain excluding cortex and hippocampus) concentrations and lower cortex choline acetyltransferase activity than the control normal mice (P < 0.05). The administration of phosphatidylcholine to mice with dementia improved memory and generally increased brain choline and acetylcholine concentrations to or above the levels of the control normal mice. In normal mice, phosphatidylcholine treatment did not affect memory or acetylcholine concentrations in spite of the great increase in choline concentrations in the three brain regions. Serum choline concentration in mice treated with phosphatidylcholine increased to a similar level in both strains of mice, indicating that the absorption of phosphatidylcholine was not impaired in mice with dementia. The results suggest that administration of egg phosphatidylcholine to mice with dementia increases brain acetylcholine concentration and improves memory.

 

Cognitive Impairment in Folate-Deficient Rats Corresponds to Depleted Brain Phosphatidylcholine and Is Prevented by Dietary Methionine without Lowering Plasma Homocysteine1,2
Poor folate status is associated with cognitive decline and dementia in older adults. Although impaired brain methylation activity and homocysteine toxicity are widely thought to account for this association, how folate deficiency impairs cognition is uncertain. To better define the role of folate deficiency in cognitive dysfunction, we fed rats folate-deficient diets (0 mg FA/kg diet) with or without supplemental L-methionine for 10 wk, followed by cognitive testing and tissue collection for hematological and biochemical analysis. Folate deficiency with normal methionine impaired spatial memory and learning; however, this impairment was prevented when the folate-deficient diet was supplemented with methionine. Under conditions of folate deficiency, brain membrane content of the methylated phospholipid phosphatidylcholine was significantly depleted, which was reversed with supplemental methionine. In contrast, neither elevated plasma homocysteine nor brain S-adenosylmethionine and S-adenosylhomocysteine concentrations predicted cognitive impairment and its prevention by methionine. The correspondence of cognitive outcomes to changes in brain membrane phosphatidylcholine content suggests that altered phosphatidylcholine and possibly choline metabolism might contribute to the manifestation of folate deficiency-related cognitive dysfunction.

Thats really good to know ! 

When should you take your choline supplement in relation to Piracetam/Alcar? 

 

 

[gamesguru]

When should you take your choline supplement in relation to Piracetam/Alcar? 

 

It literally does not matter.  The phosphatidylcholine is like 90% bioavailable, and has a long-half life, so saturation and steady-state dynamics are quickly realized.  In fact, phosophatidylcholine is complexed with silybin (sometimes silymarin), because the PC increases the silybin bioavailability.^{[1], [2]}

If you feel so compelled: wake up at 3:15am, eat your egg, go back to sleep.

 

I would put more thought into what time you will take the piracetam/alcar, or whether you will even take it the same time every day, or if you will "listen to your body" or take it "when it feels right".

[sshazam]

 

When should you take your choline supplement in relation to Piracetam/Alcar? 

 

It literally does not matter.  The phosphatidylcholine is like 90% bioavailable, and has a long-half life, so saturation and steady-state dynamics are quickly realized.  In fact, phosophatidylcholine is complexed with silybin (sometimes silymarin), because the PC increases the silybin bioavailability.^{[1], [2]}

If you feel so compelled: wake up at 3:15am, eat your egg, go back to sleep.

 

I would put more thought into what time you will take the piracetam/alcar, or whether you will even take it the same time every day, or if you will "listen to your body" or take it "when it feels right".

 

The first part makes no sense to me hahaha.

I generally try to dose at the same time 6ish hours from each other. I like to do two big doses for breakfast and Lunch and then a smaller dose late afternoon. 

[gamesguru]

You could try taking it closer, 3 hours before or after.  It won't matter much.

 

Something with poor bioavailability, you have to take lots of it over a long period to achieve "saturation".  And if it has a short-half life, you have to sometimes take 2-3 divided daily doses to maintain constant plasma concentrations; there is no steady-state.   With magnesium for example, a half life of over 500 hrs, you can take it just twice a week and maintain a steady-state or constant plasma concentrations.  Like paxil you can miss 1 day only, prozac you can miss 2-3 (but slower to realize steady state).  Not important info for our purposes, really, sorry.

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[sshazam]

You could try taking it closer, 3 hours before or after.  It won't matter much.

 

Something with poor bioavailability, you have to take lots of it over a long period to achieve "saturation".  And if it has a short-half life, you have to sometimes take 2-3 divided daily doses to maintain constant plasma concentrations; there is no steady-state.   With magnesium for example, a half life of over 500 hrs, you can take it just twice a week and maintain a steady-state or constant plasma concentrations.  Like paxil you can miss 1 day only, prozac you can miss 2-3 (but slower to realize steady state).  Not important info for our purposes, really, sorry.

 

So possibly try taking Piracetam for a longer period to achieve this saturation ? Maybe I could try attack dosing for a week or two and then drop to 4.8 grams. I'm considering taking the Choline source more so at night so its in the system by morning. 

[gamesguru]

I think taking 3 hours before piracetam is sufficient to ensure both are in the system at the same time.

 

Attack dosing is a choice.  I personally sometimes got side effects (headache, brain fog, anxiety, restlessness, tremor, or hyperkinesia) from these larger doses (>5g daily).  But I must say, they did also more reliably induce positive effects (clarity, improved vocabulary).

Slow and steady sometimes wins the race.

Edited by gamesguru, 06 October 2015 - 02:13 AM.