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Nicotinamide Riboside [Curated]

nicotinamide riboside nicotinamide nad boosting charles brenner david sinclair leonard guarente niagen niacinamide nicotinamide mononucleotide

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#2341 Valijon

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 03:55 PM

Its because the Chinese don't see NR as being lucrative yet. I'd bet most of them have never heard of it yet. Once they see it as profitable and can find customers, they will mass produce some NR. This is the way of things with the Chinese. I've watched this happening for well over a decade.

#2342 Bryan_S

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 04:26 PM

The brain, sirtuins, and ageing

 
Akiko Satoh, Shin-ichiro Imai & Leonard Guarente
 
Nature Reviews Neuroscience 18, 362–374 (2017) doi:10.1038/nrn.2017.42
Published online 18 May 2017


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#2343 Bryan_S

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 04:42 PM

Just a note guys, LongeCity would like to consolidate many of the NR threads into a Sub-forum so everything can be found in one area. This is all in the discussion phase right now.
 
If you see some changes to this thread don't be alarmed. We'll preserve this thread but it's getting to be rather long, and people are having problems finding the research they came here for. We might just start fresh with a new one.
 
Personally, I'd like to see a thread where we just see pure research of NAD-repletion and its related topics with the comments getting branched off into a parallel discussion thread. I'll discuss this with our LongeCity Admins and see if and how this can be arranged.
 

Bryan

 

As always JMHO


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#2344 able

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 04:52 PM

Search Alibaba.com for Nicotinamide Riboside and there are dozens of listing of Chinese companies that SAY they can supply it.

 

Whether they can or not?  I have no idea.

 

But even if they can, it seems like Elysium would still be in violation if they import and sell it.  

 

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.


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#2345 Bryan_S

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:21 PM

Search Alibaba.com for Nicotinamide Riboside and there are dozens of listing of Chinese companies that SAY they can supply it.

 

Whether they can or not?  I have no idea.

 

But even if they can, it seems like Elysium would still be in violation if they import and sell it.  

 

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

Look at the Nature posting, Leonard Guarente is a principle in Elysium and Shin-ichiro Imai is a principal researcher in NMN along with Sinclair. My speculation is they will continue along the NMN path but this remains to be seen. If you want to do the research I would look for patent applications for the manufacture of NMN and see who holds them.

 

As always JMHO


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#2346 bluemoon

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:02 PM

Search Alibaba.com for Nicotinamide Riboside and there are dozens of listing of Chinese companies that SAY they can supply it.

 

Whether they can or not?  I have no idea.

 

But even if they can, it seems like Elysium would still be in violation if they import and sell it.  

 

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

What would Elysium be in violation of? Either the U.S. allows imports of NR or it doesn't. But there is no reason why the U.S. would ban the import of a vitamin. The only thing Elysium can't do is manufacture itself for market in the way ChromaDex does. 

 

And for all we know, Elysium may have been importing NR from China after it made its last purchase from Chromadex last summer as it knew of its trial results at the half way point.   


Edited by bluemoon, 18 May 2017 - 06:04 PM.


#2347 able

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:26 PM

 

Search Alibaba.com for Nicotinamide Riboside and there are dozens of listing of Chinese companies that SAY they can supply it.

 

Whether they can or not?  I have no idea.

 

But even if they can, it seems like Elysium would still be in violation if they import and sell it.  

 

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

What would Elysium be in violation of? Either the U.S. allows imports of NR or it doesn't. But there is no reason why the U.S. would ban the import of a vitamin. The only thing Elysium can't do is manufacture itself for market in the way ChromaDex does. 

 

And for all we know, Elysium may have been importing NR from China after it made its last purchase from Chromadex last summer as it knew of its trial results at the half way point.   

 

 

I'm not a lawyer or expert in this field, but seems to me is similar to any counterfeit product.  

 

You can buy software in China, but if you're a big distributor of software that violates US copywrite law, the fact that it was produced in China and not in US is not a good excuse.



#2348 bluemoon

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:26 PM

 

I'm not a lawyer or expert in this field, but seems to me is similar to any counterfeit product.  

 

You can buy software in China, but if you're a big distributor of software that violates US copywrite law, the fact that it was produced in China and not in US is not a good excuse.

 

 

But the Chinese companies would not be making a counterfeit product. They would simply be producing and exporting NR that has nothing to do with ChromaDex. If they put a "Naigen" label on the shipments to Elysium or another vendor, then likely to be considered a counterfeit. U.S. law does not allow a vitamin to be patented.



#2349 Mike C

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:49 PM

http://www.wholefood...17-performance/

Not a very impressive start to the new year. It seems they are prepping for a big push. If so the unpublished research will likely lead the way.

#2350 Nate-2004

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:58 PM

I noticed my CDXC stock is way back down today from the high it was at last Friday. :(  It's up and down a lot though. I guess I'll just let it ride.


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#2351 Valijon

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 01:07 AM

The reality is that the Chinese care nothing about counterfeit laws. Look at the clothes, shoes, watches, handbags, sunglasses, pens, and whatever else they can copy. They will duplicate NR in the blink of an eye if there is money to be made. Chromadex stock could languish at these levels for a long time. I've had stocks which were flat. If the price drops below 3 a share it will become even less attractive because you can't buy on margin at those levels.
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#2352 StanG

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:52 PM

Bryan_S - for you mainly - what do you think of this post, posted in another blog and why:

 

 

Do you find taking niacinamide plus ribose as effective as commercial NR?

 

 

It's more effective. For NAD+, supplements appear to be effective in the following sequence: nicotinic acid < nicotinamide < NR < nicotinamide + ribose

 

Note that nicotinamide is the same as niacinamide, and nicotinic acid is the same as niacin.

 

Nicotinamide + a greater than stoichiometric  dose of ribose should be more effective than NR, as NR must be enzymatically broken down into nicotinamide + ribose to be absorbed. Since some ribose will be lost, not all will be recombined, and there is a several hour delay before it reaches its maximum effect for that same reason. Thus the 2 g nicotinamide + 5 g ribose dose I'm using should be equivalent to > 4 g NR.

 

See the following paper--

 

 

Perfused or intact intestine rapidly hydrolyzed NMN to nicotinamide riboside, which accumulated, but was not absorbed. It was slowly cleaved by an enzyme associated with the mucosal cells to nicotinamide, which was the major if not the only labeled compound absorbed.

 

http://nadh.wiki/wp-...-of-the-Rat.pdf

 



#2353 Michael

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 04:11 PM

Bryan_S - for you mainly - what do you think of this post, posted in another blog

 
(Always best to link or at least clearly cite sources, including "other blogs").
 

Do you find taking niacinamide plus ribose as effective as commercial NR?
 
It's more effective. [..]Nicotinamide + a greater than stoichiometric  dose of ribose should be more effective than NR, as NR must be enzymatically broken down into nicotinamide + ribose to be absorbed. Since some ribose will be lost, not all will be recombined, and there is a several hour delay before it reaches its maximum effect for that same reason. Thus the 2 g nicotinamide + 5 g ribose dose I'm using should be equivalent to > 4 g NR.
 
See the following paper--
 

Perfused or intact intestine rapidly hydrolyzed NMN to nicotinamide riboside, which accumulated, but was not absorbed. It was slowly cleaved by an enzyme associated with the mucosal cells to nicotinamide, which was the major if not the only labeled compound absorbed.
 
http://nadh.wiki/wp-...-of-the-Rat.pdf


We've discussed this hypothesis (once again stated as fact rather than as the hypothesis that it is) several times before: see especially here and, in more detail, here.


Edited by Michael, 22 May 2017 - 07:11 PM.

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#2354 MikeDC

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:13 PM

Why do people keep bring this up? A bad paper and that is all.
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#2355 Michael

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 07:08 PM

Why do people keep bring this up? A bad paper and that is all.

It's not a bad paper: it's a very good and quite painstaking paper. Up until two years ago, it was some of the best evidence available on the subject. It's just that there's better evidence available now.


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#2356 MikeDC

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 09:02 PM

The conclusion is wrong. Same with the paper that concludes NR reduces sport performance.
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#2357 Michael

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 09:41 PM

The conclusion is wrong. Same with the paper that concludes NR reduces sport performance.

 

Your penchant for making definitive assertions without a ghost of a reasoned argument to support them is gradually moving you closer to the Kingdom of Trolls.


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#2358 MikeDC

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 10:17 PM

The evidence is all the other papers and personal experiences.
There is a mountain of it. Some people just love to ignore all the evidences and focus on a single badly designed study. Must have a reasoning issue.
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#2359 VP.

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Posted Yesterday, 03:06 AM

David Sinclair's beginner's guide to anti-ageing

 

He makes some very bold claims in this article. A lot of hyperbole IMHO. 

 

Boston-based Sinclair is more than convinced it is – he's taking the latest molecules himself ("part of the fun is seeing if what I experience through my blood tests matches what happens in the mice, or vice versa," he says).

So too are his 77 year-old father, his wife and most recently, his younger brother.

In March this year, influential industry journal Science published Sinclair's lab research showing how a compound called NAD+ (short for nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide) can reverse ageing in mice muscle and improve DNA growth, which usually splits and regrows imperfectly as part of the ageing process. The results indicate that, in mice, it is possible to repair DNA damage from ageing and radiation.

However, Sinclair is popping the pills. And after just three months on this latest molecule, he says his biological age went from 57 (he's 47) to 31.4 years.


 

"I don't watch what I eat as much as you might think," he says into the quiet, noting that even though he might only make it onto the treadmill once a week, because of the compound, his body behaves as though he's running every day.

http://www.afr.com/l...20170418-gvmp24

 



#2360 bluemoon

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Posted Yesterday, 08:38 AM

David Sinclair's beginner's guide to anti-ageing

 

He makes some very bold claims in this article. A lot of hyperbole IMHO. 

 

 
 
"And we discuss again how the anti-ageing science field is filled with snake-oil merchants. He says that he tries to distinguish himself from that, making it clear he doesn't work with nutraceutical or supplement companies.
 
"I take the high road and develop the pharmaceuticals only," he says. "They might say I'm a salesman, a pitch guy, sure. But read the papers, they're peer-reviewed." 
 
----------
 
At this point very few journalist would know enough to as Sinclair why it will take years to market a pharmaceutical that is already a supplement. Elysium says it has sent its results or will send its results to a peer reviewed science journal. If the results are published, journalists will start to ask more about NR than NMN.


#2361 able

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Posted Yesterday, 06:48 PM

 

David Sinclair's beginner's guide to anti-ageing

 

He makes some very bold claims in this article. A lot of hyperbole IMHO. 

 

 
 
"And we discuss again how the anti-ageing science field is filled with snake-oil merchants. He says that he tries to distinguish himself from that, making it clear he doesn't work with nutraceutical or supplement companies.
 
"I take the high road and develop the pharmaceuticals only," he says. "They might say I'm a salesman, a pitch guy, sure. But read the papers, they're peer-reviewed." 
 
----------
 
At this point very few journalist would know enough to as Sinclair why it will take years to market a pharmaceutical that is already a supplement. Elysium says it has sent its results or will send its results to a peer reviewed science journal. If the results are published, journalists will start to ask more about NR than NMN.

 

 

Yeah, I found that offensive.  He takes his nmn, and resveratrol supplements, but then slams supplement companies?  

 

Guess he want NMN to be a prescription drug only so insurance companies can pay 10x what it would cost as a lowly supplement that does the same thing.

 

It is really weird how we keep seeing these articles rewriting the same old news over about nmn over and over.


Edited by able, Yesterday, 06:50 PM.


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#2362 bluemoon

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Posted Yesterday, 09:20 PM

 

 

 

Yeah, I found that offensive.  He takes his nmn, and resveratrol supplements, but then slams supplement companies?  

 

Guess he want NMN to be a prescription drug only so insurance companies can pay 10x what it would cost as a lowly supplement that does the same thing.

 

It is really weird how we keep seeing these articles rewriting the same old news over about nmn over and over.

 

 

Keep in mind he developed Longevinex, so he was indirectly developing supplements in the past.







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