31 replies to this topic

[Ellsworth]

Hello, I have been severely depressed since the beginning of summer last year. Before the depression I was doing very well exercising, eating right, sleeping, but then at the end of May I noticed myself feeling off, a few weeks of slowly feeling like I was getting worse then one day I just couldn't take it anymore, I had completely lost my ability to handle any type of stress, everything, I mean everything was overwhelming, even someone knocking on the door, talking to someone on the phone was just too much. Like my nerves just got fried. this led to a deep and lasting depression, debilitating fatigue, brain fog, memory problems, severe anxiety, complete loss of enjoyment of anything, thoughts of suicide, morning terrors (fear of impending doom when I wake up in the morning) the whole 9 yards.

 

I've done a lot to try and combat this:

 

• SSRIs, lexapro up to 30mg, zoloft up to 100mg - these had no effect during this depression (they used to work when I had a mild depression) just made me gain weight, tapering off is hell with the brain zingers, Lexapro is the WORST to get off of. Still taking a small 2mg chunk
• Wellbutrin up to 300mg - tried IR, SR and XL these did nothing but make the depression worse, on top of this some nasty, nasty heart palpatations like you wouldn't believe especially with the XL dose
• Mood stabilizers - lamactil and resperidone - gave me an extra layer of tiredness I didn't know existed
• testosterone replacement therapy - Test was very low, but did nothing but make me gain eight and give me back acne, and shrink balls, nothing for mood at all
• T3 for wilson's protocol - did nothing but make me a tad hotter and increased my heart rate, nothing for mood. Let me add that all my labs, indicated good blood work and good vitamin and mineral levels via standard blood serum levels and spectra cell as well.
• Supplements: currently doing D3 5000iu, cod liver oil (1 tblsn), coq10 100mg, pqq20mg, zinc 30mg, magnessium 500mg, MSM tspn, methyl b12 5000, probiotics
• supplements I've tried: lithium orotate,  macuna L-dopa, 5htp (200mg), tyrosine up to 6000 mg daily, NALT, sulbutiamine, choline bitartrate, L-theanine, chromium, gaba, taurine, niacine, melatonin
• adaptagenic herbs currently taking - fo-ti, shilajit in pure resin form (make a nice tea out of it and the fo-ti), maca extract, tumeric extract, amla powder or camu camu for vit c, reishi mushroom, lions mane mushroom extract, gynostemma 
• Deplin - prescription methyl folate (15mg) still taking but don't notice anything
• DHEA 50mg - did nothing
• empower plus (fancy multi-vitamin for bi-polar) did nothing
• smoking cannabis - seems to make me feel a bit anxious and paranoid - seem to see things out of the corner of my eye - not a fun experience
• Had MRI and the brain scan looks fine so nothing physically wrong (dad has vascular dementia and alzheimers - he's 70) so wanted to rule this out
• alpha stim brain stimulator - tried for 2 months every day for an hour. did nothing for me
• SAMe - did this for 6 weeks - did nothing for me
• Tianeptine (up to 40-50mg 3 times a day) can't really say it did anything for me
• st john's wort - did nothing for me
• Nootropics - Noopept - gave more brain fog, aniracetam - gave more bain fog, alpha GPC - don't notice anything
• caffeine/coffee - coffee used to perk me right up, but not now, just seems to make me more sleepy, as an experiment to ordered some caffeine powder and did about a 100mg shot all at once. in about 15 minutes it hit me - had the feeling of pure anxiety, like I was going to have a panic attack. thankfully wore off in about 30 min
• Dextroamphetamin 20mg - this worked the best, it actually got me out of the depression for a couple days (thought I'd found the cure for me). then at day 4 started to feel, run down, depleted and 'cracked out' on top of that it made me not able to sleep, so I know I couldn't keep it up. If I could find a way to sustain it's effect without getting cracked out or minimize the neurotoxic effects I may attempt again.
• Counselling - I think I am making her depressed coming in every week. Good to talk to someone, but it's not really helping
• I try to exercise when I can, 20 min jog/run but it's hard doesn't seem to help. In fact seems like more brain fog when I'm done with a run

Modafinil 100mg - tried my first pill today (prescribed by pdoc) hoping it would have the same effect as amphetamine without the side effects- it's not working, just giving me a bad headache, at one point I felt some anxiety, but that subsided and now feeling sleepy - took about 7 hours ago. Needless to say feeling very disappointed about it so far. can't stand the headache so I am debating whether I should take another pill tomorrow.

 

If Modafinil doesn't work, pdoc wants me to try an MAOI. This scares me a bit since a rouge piece of aged cheese or chocolate could potentially do you in.

 

I also have agmatine, Uridine, emoxypine and tongkat ali on order, so waiting to try those. Pdoc says that If the MAOIs don't work then I should try TMS or ketamine treatments, however, those are expensive and insurance doesn't cover those.

 

My last ditch effort is psilicybin mushrooms, but that gives me great anxiety thinking about the possibility of a bad trip, although I guess it has very good depression benefits from what I understand

 

If anyone has any suggestions to help me out I would be willing to try it. Thanks guys.

[Ellsworth]

The Modafinil headache lasted 10 hours, now I just feel out of it, and slightly detached, nauseus and feel like my BP has gone up. Hasn't been a fun day. I won't be taking anymore tomorrow.

 

I'm really discouraged and losing hope.

[James Phillip Turpin]

Have you tried taking melatonin to sleep better?

[TheLovedOne]

Did you actually take your blood pressure after the Modafinil?

Whenever I took it the veins in my arm stood out which I presumed was vasodilation; a potential side effect. I have stopped taking it (I was taking it sporadically) because it caused an uncomfortable feeling in my chest. Also, over time my blood pressure had been going down and down and down. The diastolic got to 15 mm or so below low normal while standing and then I noticed that while standing or walking my depression was much more severe than when I was lying down. Since I stopped taking it it has gradually gotten up to low normal.

I have since read that in a recent study a correlation was found between low blood pressure and depression, though I would have presumed that they were talking about lower normal blood pressures, not actual hypotension.

Anyway, I'm kind of curious as to whether many people with treatment resistant depression do have hypotension or low normal blood pressure.

Edited by TheLovedOne, 27 January 2016 - 08:11 AM.

[sant2060]

Its just matter of patience, and trying until you found it. Had Similar experience, tried similar things, nothing seemed to work. I could feel SSRI side effects on ridiculosly small doses...like I could feel zombified onda without libido on 37,5 Venlafaxine

I also had very high anxiety levels, which is something I think you have, judging from your post.

Here are some things that DID work for me.

Selfhelp:

CBT. I'm trying to kick out negative thinking and rumination. Keep in mind that constantly thinking about your illnes is also rumination Good start would be feeling good therapy, Burns

Hardwiring happens book by Hanson. Looks like lots of mumbo jumbo, but it actually works for me.

Work. The more I work, the less i feel depressed. Although, I changed profession, and now I work on something I like. When working, I dont time to ruminate. Also,I feel better at the end of the day, procastination was killing me.

Working on confidence and selfworth. Burns again has a book for that, seeing results from daily work in my profession helps, understanding that my father fucked me up also

Of course, non of the above works,without a little kick from medications. I tried almost everything.

Meds with good positive/negative ratio:
Mirtazepine-after 10 years of hell,this drug made me realise I can still be a functioning person, and gave me sthrenght to look further. Gave me huge motivation boost, ideas were poping out like theres no tomorrow, but more important, I had ure to act on them. However, several things were off, had occasional racing thoughts, sleep was shorter, and it did nothing for anhedonia or libido.

Rivotril. Saved me from panic attacks. I always have one 0.5mg tablet in my pocket. Just knowing its there helps. I take half of tablet when needed (rarely this days), when I feel too much anxiety, or have a feeling this could be panic attack day.

Piribedil...helped me a bit with anhedonia. Nothing stellar alone, but works for me in combo with other drugs.

Yohimbine. First herb I could actually feel it has some effect on me. Works for me even in small doses, doesnt seem to lose eficiency over time. Some rather nasty sides, I get chills from it. But works like charm every time, in an hour or so I can get erection,and quality orgasm...something that was almost imposible for me for years due to depression and/or SSRI/SNRI. For example, even on 37.5 Venlafaxine that was missing imposible for me. With Yohimbine added on as needed basis, I could function again. Important because, Mirtazepine, it gave me sthrenght to look for more solutions.

TDCS. But not in most popular depression montage. Cathode mid forhead, anode little above inion, or cathode F4 anode left shoulder. Lower rumination, less anxiety, calming effect, helps a bit with anhedonia.

Trazodone. Game changer for me.
After a week or so, I started to feel. To feel even good emotions. Started to enjoy some things. Started to look forward to some things. Started to WANT some things.

Got relatively normal libido. Not Yohimbine 'Ill feel it in an hour' drug induced somewhat weird type. Normal, like it used be 10-15 years before.

Anxiety way down. But in normal way, without feeling like zombie...it comes for some things that should induce it...bit it doesnt stay for ever.

So, my current regime is:
Trazodone 100 mg per day (plan to test with 150)
75mg of Wellbutrin XL (helps with focus, higher doses are too strong for me, feel detached)
Piribedil 50 mg every second or third day
Tapering off Venlafaxine, now on 1/4 37.5 mg per day
Rivotril as needed (rarely now, 2-3 times a month)

Now I can do Selfhelp desribed above...and see that it works. Before it didnt help at all. Now I can work (I think I did more work in last few months than in 10 years) without forcing myself. Now I can learn new things...because now some themes actually interest me

I feel ALMOST normal. Libido is stil a bit lower than it should be, enjoyment level in other things also not as high as it should be, I sleep too much, there are some problems with retreiving words or names, memory a bit off.

So, Ill keep on searching Btw, this is my brain and my chemistry, your mileage may vary...but wanted to share because all similarities, and because I didnt see in your post you tried those things.

[Galaxyshock]

Memantine with the Dextroamphetamine supposably makes it sustainable by preventing tolerance and some of the sides.

[stillwater]

This of course just my opinion , I am not a medical professional, but to me the last remaining big guns to pull out for treatment resistant depression before having to contemplate doing ECT,

 

are:

 

- the old school TCA   Clomipramine  (out of all myriad of TCA's I'm suggesting this one because it seems to be one that maintains it's effectiveness for very long periods of time, decades for some, so if it does work you can hopefully buy quite a few years until something better comes down the pipeline, hitting multiple transmitters it reduces the chance of sexual dysfunction and really helps with sleep, and it's dirt cheap). Desimpramine might be worth looking at as well. Newest AD's are going back to what these older

Anti Dep's did all along. 

 

-MAOI's  Parnate, Nardil  -there are others but those two are the most proven, the dietary restrictions can be scary as you mentioned but they can also be a bit overblown, but worth adhering to if these bring relief, Parnate is the more stimulating of the two, when all options have failed for many people one of these have often miraculously pulled people out of the darkest holes, when nothing else even made a dent. and sometimes quite quickly. I've heard of people being on one of these for 30+ years with no change in effectiveness. I'm not surprised your Dr. is contemplating these.

 

- rTMS  - a bit of a crapshoot but if it works it works and is pretty safe, worth investigating , especially if you can find a free trial going on in your area which often happens.

 

- Meclobemide - a reversible maoi  without the dietary restrictions, I only mention this one because you haven't tried it and it works on different pathways than ssri's or TCA's but it doesn't seem to have a high rate of success but you never know. 

 

-Remeron/ Mirtrazapine - same as above, but with maybe better outcomes, can cause tremendous weight gain in some though. 

 

-Ketamine - I've noticed it's coming down in cost in some clinics, also some are offering at reduced rates if you can prove financial hardship (sliding scale).

 

-NSI-189 -  still a research chemical,  nothing your Dr. can prescribe , do your own investigating and due diligence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ellsworth]

Have you tried taking melatonin to sleep better?

Yessir, melatonin is a good supp. surprisingly the only thing that is not suffering is my ability to sleep (thank god). Although when I take stims like the dex I did get sleep troubles I probably would need to supplement this more. On the subject of sleep, the after affects of modafinil affected my ability to sleep last night, When I would almost get to sleep I would get an intense jolt of anxiety that would wake me up, happened probably 4-5 times. Usually a small noise would trigger it. It's like it messed up my norepinepherine system temporarily. Overall with this episode I'm currently having it all started with fried nerves, so it's not surprising that caffeine and wellbutrin and now modafinil affected me in an adverse way. Perhaps I have PTSD from chronic stress. In that case would the depression meds also help PTSD or are there better drugs for PTSD?

 

Did you actually take your blood pressure after the Modafinil?

Whenever I took it the veins in my arm stood out which I presumed was vasodilation; a potential side effect. I have stopped taking it (I was taking it sporadically) because it caused an uncomfortable feeling in my chest. Also, over time my blood pressure had been going down and down and down. The diastolic got to 15 mm or so below low normal while standing and then I noticed that while standing or walking my depression was much more severe than when I was lying down. Since I stopped taking it it has gradually gotten up to low normal.

I have since read that in a recent study a correlation was found between low blood pressure and depression, though I would have presumed that they were talking about lower normal blood pressures, not actual hypotension.

Anyway, I'm kind of curious as to whether many people with treatment resistant depression do have hypotension or low normal blood pressure.

I actually have a bit higher than normal blood pressure (something that I've pretty much always had)

 

Memantine with the Dextroamphetamine supposably makes it sustainable by preventing tolerance and some of the sides.

I am asking my pdoc to prescribe this. If there is any way to suppress those nasty side effects of dex it could be a game changer for me. Do you know if extended release version of dex would work the same as IR with the memantine or would it need to be IR?

 

Also, with the dex I do notice vaso constriction, cold hands and feet and BP seems to get higher. I also have no desire for sex on dex (along with stim dick). Is there a good prescription vaso dilator you would recommend to combat this?

[Ellsworth]

This of course just my opinion , I am not a medical professional, but to me the last remaining big guns to pull out for treatment resistant depression before having to contemplate doing ECT,

 

are:

 

- the old school TCA   Clomipramine  (out of all myriad of TCA's I'm suggesting this one because it seems to be one that maintains it's effectiveness for very long periods of time, decades for some, so if it does work you can hopefully buy quite a few years until something better comes down the pipeline, hitting multiple transmitters it reduces the chance of sexual dysfunction and really helps with sleep, and it's dirt cheap). Desimpramine might be worth looking at as well. Newest AD's are going back to what these older

Anti Dep's did all along. 

 

-MAOI's  Parnate, Nardil  -there are others but those two are the most proven, the dietary restrictions can be scary as you mentioned but they can also be a bit overblown, but worth adhering to if these bring relief, Parnate is the more stimulating of the two, when all options have failed for many people one of these have often miraculously pulled people out of the darkest holes, when nothing else even made a dent. and sometimes quite quickly. I've heard of people being on one of these for 30+ years with no change in effectiveness. I'm not surprised your Dr. is contemplating these.

 

- rTMS  - a bit of a crapshoot but if it works it works and is pretty safe, worth investigating , especially if you can find a free trial going on in your area which often happens.

 

- Meclobemide - a reversible maoi  without the dietary restrictions, I only mention this one because you haven't tried it and it works on different pathways than ssri's or TCA's but it doesn't seem to have a high rate of success but you never know. 

 

-Remeron/ Mirtrazapine - same as above, but with maybe better outcomes, can cause tremendous weight gain in some though. 

 

-Ketamine - I've noticed it's coming down in cost in some clinics, also some are offering at reduced rates if you can prove financial hardship (sliding scale).

 

-NSI-189 -  still a research chemical,  nothing your Dr. can prescribe , do your own investigating and due diligence.

Of the MAOIs,wWhat do you think about Selegiline? I heard it's a newer one and you may not have to watch the diet? My hunch is that low dopamine may be a the root of my problems so perhaps an MAO-B inhibitor may be the ticket?

 

I've gained a lot of wieght on lexapro and testosterone therapy, so trying to find something that doesn't cause weight gain, too.

 

NSI-189 sounds very promising. My pdoc says that there is no known substance that will regrow neurons (except for exercise) so maybe I should let him know about this one. Is the only way to get it at this point through group buys here on longecity?

 

anyone have any thoughts on psilicybin mushrooms (magic mushrooms)? Scares the shit outta me but looks very interesting.

[stillwater]

I forgot about selegiline,  the emsam patch.  Yeah it's definitely worth giving a shot, not that many downsides, if you do get into higher amounts it can require some restrictions but not at the standard dose.  

 

I'm not sure I'd tell your Dr. about NSI-189 , they usually jump all over anything not approved by the FDA for insurance reasons, but I guess at worst he'll just give you a stern warning. You can obtain it without having to do group buys and it's come down in price. 

 

Low dose psilocybin is fairly risk free if you stick to very low doses, the trouble on higher doses is increased anxiety,and panic attacks for some,  tolerance develops incredibly quick, so best to do it every third or fourth day. Be careful if you're in

a very negative/anxious/ depressive mind set as it can intensify those moods. Good to keep an anti anxiety med with you if you try it as insurance.  They never worked for me in the long run for depression in the low dose protocol or even in high attack

doses either, unfortunately. 

[ILIkeBeer]

Have you checked out my tread on breakthroughs?

 

http://www.longecity...-in-depression/

 

[Ellsworth]

I did, thanks! What is your personal favorite of what is coming down the pipe overall? Also, what is your favorite one that is almost here?

 

On a side note I was able to get a hold of some 10mg Namenda (Memantine) Should I break it in half and start with 5mg? going to try this for a couple days to get a feel for it then pair with the dex. Fingers crossed.

 

 

[Nick Kyz]

Depression can either be a hardware problem or a software problem. That is to say, it can be something metabolic (nutrition, infection, stress) or something about your attitude and mentality. Which one is up in the air without knowing you better, and of course it can be any combination or feedback loop.

 

For nutrition instead of guessing with various supplements and psychoactive drugs, have you considered comprehensive diagnostics? Genova's Nutreval is extremely insightful, albeit expensive.  Stool tests can diagnose digestive infections. Methylation and hormone panels can shed light on your most important metabolic processes.

 

Finally, nothing beats good old autobibliotherapy (reading to change your worldview). I don't mean novels, which are for housewives, I mean some honest to goodness Enchiridion, or Meditations, or Art of Worldly Wisdom.

Edited by Nick Kyz, 30 January 2016 - 02:20 PM.

[Ellsworth]

Depression can either be a hardware problem or a software problem. That is to say, it can be something metabolic (nutrition, infection, stress) or something about your attitude and mentality. Which one is up in the air without knowing you better, and of course it can be any combination or feedback loop.

 

For nutrition instead of guessing with various supplements and psychoactive drugs, have you considered comprehensive diagnostics? Genova's Nutreval is extremely insightful, albeit expensive.  Stool tests can diagnose digestive infections. Methylation and hormone panels can shed light on your most important metabolic processes.

 

Finally, nothing beats good old autobibliotherapy (reading to change your worldview). I don't mean novels, which are for housewives, I mean some honest to goodness Enchiridion, or Meditations, or Art of Worldly Wisdom.

 

got the methylation test, was heterozygous for the c67 gene and didn't have the other one. I guess if you are homozygous then methylation could be a problem, but in any case, I take methyl folate and methyl b12 for good measure but doesn't do anything for me. I've had full vitamin and hormone panel and everything looks good except low T, took T but didn't get any positives and only negatives.

 

Also, I'm finding it too difficult to read right now due to the intense brain fog, concentration and memory issues. I'ts hard to remember and make sense out of what I've just read right now.

[Ellsworth]

I was able to get some memantine (namenda) from my dad over the weekend. I'm taking 5mg daily and noticing it makes me feel just a drunk and out of it. When paired with dex it seems to really reduce dex's effectiveness. Today with the 5mg of namenda I took 7.5mg of dex in the morning, felt a little more energy for about an hour and a half and that was it, took 5mg of dex in the afternoon and didn't feel it at all. Just felt kind of drunk and out ot it all day, like the memantine was too much. I think I need to tweak the dosing. I think tomorrow I will try 2.5mg of memantine with the same amount of dex to see if I notice a difference. Does the memantine 'drunk effect' wear off at some point? It does really take the edge off the dex, but maybe too much so? is there a proper ratio of memantine to dex I should know about? Should I try an extended release dex?  Thanks,

[turboblufer]

I have some questions for you:
1. are you addicted to internet (social networks, porn, online games, gambling)? There are several problems, associated with these things. 
2. how healthy is your diet? are there enough fiber? A low fiber diet cause a microbiome biodiversity-reduction according to a recent Nature paper.
3. what strains are in your probiotic?
4. Sugar, margarine consumption?
5. ApoE status? Maybe you have a to low LDL level and need some corrections.
6. hair mineral analysis?
7. screen\blue light exposure before bedtime?
8. your hi-res crp-level in mg\l?


There are some advises, which can improve your testosterone status:
1. google for "power poses" - low power poses increase cortisol by 20% and decrease testo by 20%. and the opposite.

2. high meat consumption is associated with a testo-decrease
3. wearing underwear during night and overwarming your "eggs" is bed for your testosterone and sperm. try to cool your eggs with cool water in shower (cool showers are good for depression too).
4. don't overtrain
5. exposure to high alcohol, some plastics and heavy metal is also very bad
 

Edited by turboblufer, 05 February 2016 - 10:28 AM.

[Junk Master]

Just one note-- 100 mg of Modafinil is too low IMO to do any good for depression.  I think you'd need 200 mg or even 3-400 mg because at those levels it's effect on dopamine is more pronounced.  The Catch 22 is if you take it at those levels good luck sleeping.  Plus, you can't take it at those levels unless it's intermittently, and it's darn expensive.

 

If I were in your situation, given the history of what you have tried, I'd ask my PDOC for a combo of Mirtazapine and Venlaflazine-- known in slang terms as "California Rocket Fuel."

 

You can find numerous accounts and discussions of the combo all over the web.

 

Good luck!

[Nick Kyz]

 

Depression can either be a hardware problem or a software problem. That is to say, it can be something metabolic (nutrition, infection, stress) or something about your attitude and mentality. Which one is up in the air without knowing you better, and of course it can be any combination or feedback loop.

 

For nutrition instead of guessing with various supplements and psychoactive drugs, have you considered comprehensive diagnostics? Genova's Nutreval is extremely insightful, albeit expensive.  Stool tests can diagnose digestive infections. Methylation and hormone panels can shed light on your most important metabolic processes.

 

Finally, nothing beats good old autobibliotherapy (reading to change your worldview). I don't mean novels, which are for housewives, I mean some honest to goodness Enchiridion, or Meditations, or Art of Worldly Wisdom.

 

got the methylation test, was heterozygous for the c67 gene and didn't have the other one. I guess if you are homozygous then methylation could be a problem, but in any case, I take methyl folate and methyl b12 for good measure but doesn't do anything for me. I've had full vitamin and hormone panel and everything looks good except low T, took T but didn't get any positives and only negatives.

 

Also, I'm finding it too difficult to read right now due to the intense brain fog, concentration and memory issues. I'ts hard to remember and make sense out of what I've just read right now.

 

Well it sounds like there's no question about it. You've got some serious metabolic problems if you suffer from brain fog. I know what brain fog is like and it's impossible to function. I couldn't read a book for more than 5 minutes.

 

By methylation panel I mean the methylation pathways not the SNPs (though that's important too). This methylation panel is good:

http://www.hdri-usa....ts/methylation/

 

There's also one with slightly fewer metabolites by Doctor's Data.

https://www.doctorsd...profile-plasma/

 

The first one is better because it'll hint at whether you have oxidative stress (your brain fog suggests you do).

 

This is a good article on brain fog: http://selfhacked.co...-of-brain-fog/ 

[Ellsworth]

Just one note-- 100 mg of Modafinil is too low IMO to do any good for depression.  I think you'd need 200 mg or even 3-400 mg because at those levels it's effect on dopamine is more pronounced.  The Catch 22 is if you take it at those levels good luck sleeping.  Plus, you can't take it at those levels unless it's intermittently, and it's darn expensive.

 

If I were in your situation, given the history of what you have tried, I'd ask my PDOC for a combo of Mirtazapine and Venlaflazine-- known in slang terms as "California Rocket Fuel."

 

You can find numerous accounts and discussions of the combo all over the web.

 

Good luck!

I think my norepinepherine system is out of whack. My heart rate varies considerably and I am prone to heart palpitations. When I took wellbutrin XL My heart was doing somersaults all night wasn't fun. This is the same reason I think modafinil had the reaction that it did - gave me an anxiety spike followed by a 10 hour headache then adrenal attacks when trying to sleep. taking more than 100mg scares the shit out of me. I don't think I will be taking anything else that messes with norepinepherine (except maybe something that lowers it) although I'm affraid something like that could make me more tired when I can already barely get up in the morning.

[Junk Master]

The symptoms you describe above, heart palpitations, exhaustion, can be the result of classic stress/anxiety.  

 

I would not recommend ANY Modafinil.

 

Regular exercise, and meditation if you are not doing them already.

 

Also, it would not hurt to see a therapist (I'm fond of CBT).

[wanderlust]

depression =emtional consitpation

 

The cure to depression is anger

 

gather together every once of anger you can find and then safely and carefully , release it

 

Once you have become  truly enraged you will beable to morn your loss and move on with your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[medievil]

depression =emtional consitpation

 

The cure to depression is anger

 

gather together every once of anger you can find and then safely and carefully , release it

 

Once you have become  truly enraged you will beable to morn your loss and move on with your life.

Yes, this will be the solution for SOME people, but not for alot of others.

 

In this forum i will continue underlying how everyone is differened and continue to list all the available options, even options that can have risks, as again, depending on the individual they would need that treatment.

[Ellsworth]

So, I've been taking the EMSAM 6/24 patch for the past couple weeks. I had a couple better days in there, but I'm having too much increased anxiety with very uncomfortable heart palpitations. blood pressure is high as well (130-170/80-100). It seems yet another drug that stimulates norepinepherine too much. Very similar to my Wellbutrin experience. It's uncomfortable enough that I want to pull the patch off Right now. I am thinking that since with EMSAM the lowest dose is 6mg, If I need a lower dose I might try zelapar 1.25mg sublinguar and break that in half. My hope is that will be low enough for the cardiovascular effects to go away but still get antidepressant effects, although I'm weary of that since I wasn't getting enough AD effect from with the 6mg patch. Sigh. Seems like everything I try side effects overcome me (especially cardiovascular/heart palps) before I can get any real AD effect.

 

The game plan if EMSAM doesn't workit to try Nardil, butI'm worried about even more norepinepherine effect. Anyone know of any drug that only works on dopamine (maybe some seratonin) but stays far away from norepinepherine?

[medievil]

EMSAM metabolises in l amphetamine which can be anxiogenic, besides that there are possible toxiticy issues with selegiline and i dont recommened its use as a antidepressant or for anything else with its big brother rasagiline being available.

 

I know its not there in patch form, thats the only issue.

[turboblufer]

What's about your diet? Maybe to much sugar? Maybe gluten\casein intolerance? Maybe fast food?

[gamesguru]

omega-3s, flax- or hempseed is fine

fiber, polyphenols (aka mindful eating)

chromium, lithium (naturally obtainable), zinc, magnesium

taurine, tyrosine, tryptophan

theanine, inositol, creatine

ALCAR & PS

saffron, turmeric, ginger

bacopa, ginkgo, gotu kola

ginseng, ashwagandha, rhodiola

socialization, exercise, intellectual or aesthetic activities

[wanderlust]

 

depression =emtional consitpation

 

The cure to depression is anger

 

gather together every once of anger you can find and then safely and carefully , release it

 

Once you have become  truly enraged you will beable to morn your loss and move on with your life.

Yes, this will be the solution for SOME people, but not for alot of others.

 

In this forum i will continue underlying how everyone is differened and continue to list all the available options, even options that can have risks, as again, depending on the individual they would need that treatment.

 

 

i am talking about the natural psychological process by which a person stops being depressed and becomes happy ,  emotional processes humans have been going though to become well and happy again for millions of years 

personally I would rather defeat depression by going on a primal emotion processing adventure , than

taking a medication . its just more enpowering, fun and safe

 

often hirinh a professional guide ( therapist )to these ancient invisible internal processes can really help expidite our gettng back to enjoying life .

 

i should have been more clear in my first post that i was speaking about one of meny approches to solving the problem of depression that poeple use.

 

but i wanted to simply lay out the emtional  process map for returning to happiess from depression.

in a bite size comment ,

 

 

i would be willing to bet  £100  that if you work out last time that you got so angry that your hands where shaking it would be from a time before the depression.

 

 

 

 

Edited by wanderlust, 07 March 2016 - 01:09 AM.

[Michael Rian]

Hey, since depression effects everyone differently and seems to have 1000 faces, here are some random articles that may be of interest and point you in some kind of direction.  Ive been reading and branching off Pub Med for the past few hours.. lol

Cheers

 

 

 

Immunomodulation Mechanism of Antidepressants: Interactions between Serotonin/Norepinephrine Balance and Th1/Th2 Balance

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3386509/

 

Combination therapy with monoamine oxidase inhibitors and other antidepressants or stimulants: strategies for the management of treatment-resistant depression.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25884531

 

Pramipexole augmentation of a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor in the treatment of depression.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/10770475

 

Efficacy, Dosage, and Duration of Action of Branched Chain Amino Acid Therapy for Traumatic Brain Injury

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4378292/

 

Vortioxetine for major depressive disorder: An indirect comparison with duloxetine, escitalopram, levomilnacipran, sertraline, venlafaxine, and vilazodone, using number needed to treat, number needed to harm, and likelihood to be helped or harmed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/26938965

 

Selegiline remarkably improved stage 5 treatment-resistant major depressive disorder: a case report

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3804584/

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of pramipexole augmentation in treatment-resistant major depressive disorder.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23945458

 

Does methylphenidate reduce the symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16443425

Current place of monoamine oxidase inhibitors in the treatment of depression.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23934742

Aripiprazole for Treatment of Apathy.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4655898/

The many different faces of major depression: it is time for personalized medicine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25592320

[Ellsworth]

So, pdoc wanted to get me on Lithium since selegiline (EMSAM) had too many cardiovascular effects. He also says that he doesn't think anti-depressants are right for me. Therefore he switched me to lithium carbonate. Just went from 300mg to 600mg. Haven't noticed anything really, just slightly feel 'weird'(only been a week total since I've been on it) but don't know if it's good or bad at this point.

[Ellsworth]

 

 

depression =emtional consitpation

 

The cure to depression is anger

 

gather together every once of anger you can find and then safely and carefully , release it

 

Once you have become  truly enraged you will beable to morn your loss and move on with your life.

Yes, this will be the solution for SOME people, but not for alot of others.

 

In this forum i will continue underlying how everyone is differened and continue to list all the available options, even options that can have risks, as again, depending on the individual they would need that treatment.

 

 

i am talking about the natural psychological process by which a person stops being depressed and becomes happy ,  emotional processes humans have been going though to become well and happy again for millions of years 

personally I would rather defeat depression by going on a primal emotion processing adventure , than

taking a medication . its just more enpowering, fun and safe

 

often hirinh a professional guide ( therapist )to these ancient invisible internal processes can really help expidite our gettng back to enjoying life .

 

i should have been more clear in my first post that i was speaking about one of meny approches to solving the problem of depression that poeple use.

 

but i wanted to simply lay out the emtional  process map for returning to happiess from depression.

in a bite size comment ,

 

 

i would be willing to bet  £100  that if you work out last time that you got so angry that your hands where shaking it would be from a time before the depression.

 

 

Just bought a punching bag with gloves. I will punch until my wrists break while giving a barbaric yalp. I'll let you know the results.