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Hydrogen Water as a much cheaper alternative to MK677?

hydrogen water ghrelin

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#481 aconita

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:37 PM

Adamh, you keep calling for evidence of very well known physics facts but never provide any in support of your speculations.

 

or one of those rigs they use for cars that generate h. They run off 12v so any car battery charger will work fine on them.

 

Is this "a food preparation device that would need fda approval"?

 

Thats only 1.2 ppm, I see no problem with that.

 

I am aware about of your difficulties in understanding the basic physic principle of PRESSURE as essential in order to get substantial amounts of a gas dissolved in liquids...

 

That device doesn't seem able to provide much pressure if any at all and your idea of bubbling hydrogen through water follows the same misunderstanding.

 

Hydrogen health mechanisms aren't clear yet but there is a decent amount of research done so far, educate yourself and come back with evidence supporting your claims in order to avoid making a fool of yourself.

 

You might start here:

 

http://www.molecular...on.org/studies/

 

Every route of administration has its own peculiarity, inhaling doesn't seem to posses the one of raising ghrelin regardless of what you wish, I am sorry, sometimes life is harsh.:) 



#482 Hip

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 01:18 AM

12 seconds? Why not one second if you don't care about maximizing h2 intake? You want max intake not min so you hold it as long as you can. I can hold my breath a couple minutes though 1 minute  is more comfortable. This would be 5 times your estimate. So instead of the .03ppm you came up with it might be .15. Another factor is when you exhale you do not exhale every bit of h in your lungs. Some remains and is absorbed later. 

 

It is unlikely you would be able to hold a full lungful of pure H2 for more than around 10 to 30 seconds without collapsing unconscious.

 

Gases like helium and H2 can be used for suicide purposes: they are not toxic, but breathing them kills by blocking off the oxygen. When people commit suicide by breathing helium in the absence of oxygen (using a bag over the head, connected to a helium suppy), they can be struck unconscious in as little as 10 seconds, but on average it takes around 30 seconds to lose consciousness. Death then follows in 5 to 10 minutes.

 

And in the past, there were stories of welders accidentally killing themselves by connecting their breathing masks to their H2 tank, rather than the air supply. If you do this, if you start breathing pure H2 via a face mask, you can be unconscious in 10 seconds, and dead within 5 to 10 minutes. That's why these days, the valves on H2 tanks are purposely made different to the air valves, so that welders cannot mistakenly connect their masks to the H2 tank and kill themselves.

 

Thus the figure of 12 seconds I used is around about the maximum you could safely achieve if breathing in pure H2, with no air and oxygen in your lungs. 

 

If you mix in some air with the H2, so that there is also some oxygen in your lungs, then you will be able to hold your breath for longer, but then if there is air in the lungs as well, the absorption of H2 will go down anyway, so that what you gain in time, you may lose in absorption, so you are probably back where you started.

 

The only way I can see that you can attain higher blood ppm levels is by performing multiple inhalations of H2 over many breaths. But you say that you only breathe a small gulp of H2 in one single breath. 

 

 

It's possible that your single gulps of H2 gas might cause ghrelin release, but we just don't know, because we don't have any data.

 

If I were buying a car, and the salesman told me the engine might work, but that the engine might also be broken and useless, I'd think I'd pass on that particular car, and find a vehicle that was guaranteed to function.


Edited by Hip, 21 May 2017 - 01:51 AM.

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#483 adamh

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 02:46 AM

Pass out after 10 to 30 seconds? While running a race perhaps but not sitting in an easy chair. Its impossible to get all oxygen out of your lungs anyway and people can exhale and hold their breath for longer than 30 seconds. I just tried it myself and felt oxygen deprived but no where near fainting after 30 seconds. If I was to win 1M dollars for doing it a minute I would sure go for it.

 

I also do not see the need to have only pure h in your lungs in order to absorb it well. H is very easily absorbed because it penetrates so well. You are not going to be able to absorb all the h in a lungful or even half lungful. If you have lets say 16 cubic inches available out of the quart or so, then that should be more than enough to do you even if you don't absorb it all, maybe half.

 

I'm not going to ask to see all the scientific studies to support the things you claim, we are just talking and the studies don't exist in most cases. Applying scientific principles to known events can be productive and lead to explanations. If you don't want to accept that breathing it is a good roa, then don't use it. Problem solved. If you don't want to use a tank or test tube to make your h water, use the rods or whatever pleases you. We are just each of us making the case for various things.

 

The coffee pot like device in ebay is one example of possibly better technology or less work at a slightly higher cost, but no one is forced to use that rather than something else. The device for a car will produce gas h2, a tank has it ready to use at a moments notice. Any of these can  be used to produce h water. A thread like this brings out all the tecs. Make valid criticisms of course, point out possible flaws but keep in mind the flaw may or may not be valid and may be easily overcome. I try to do this, I accept that h water is probably a good thing to use, there seems evidence of that. So I brought up other ways to make it as well as using the gas itself without putting it in water.

 

A vigorous debate brings out things that everyone can use. As they read the thread they learn more and more. I learn something new every day myself it seems. 


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#484 Hip

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 05:28 AM

Pass out after 10 to 30 seconds? 

 

From the Wikipedia article on helium suicide

Inhalation of 100% pure helium (which is not mixed with oxygen) causes rapid death due to oxygen deprivation (since the helium displaces the oxygen). When breathing pure helium inside a plastic bag, unconsciousness follows after about 5 breaths. In 62 cases where "time to unconsciousness" was reported, the average was 35 seconds (range 10-120 seconds). Death will often follow in about 10 minutes, sometimes as quickly as 5 minutes. 

Hydrogen is just as effective as helium for suicide purposes. 

 

I would guess that if you fully emptied your lungs the best you can, and then breath in a few liters of pure hydrogen gas  (with no air), you will start feeling pretty uncomfortable after 15 seconds, and will be gasping for breath by 25 seconds.  

 

 

 

I'm not going to ask to see all the scientific studies to support the things you claim, we are just talking and the studies don't exist in most cases. 

 

The facts and figures I quoted are referenced by the appropriate studies earlier in this thread. If you want to read them, have a look at these older posts.

 

 



I also do not see the need to have only pure h in your lungs in order to absorb it well. 

 

Well maybe you don't appreciate that the percentage of H2 and the percentage of air in your lungs determines how much H2 gets dissolved into the blood. If you have 5.5 liters of air, and only 500 ml of H2, much less H2 gets absorbed compared to a situation where you have 6 liters of pure H2 in the lungs. 

 

It is all to do with partial pressures and Henry’s law. Maybe you might take an interest in that, and look it up.

 

I based my earlier calculation on the idea that your lungs were completely filled with H2 (the lungs have around a 6 liter capacity). Under those circumstances, you are going to get (if you are very lucky) a 1.57 ppm H2 concentration in the 1 liter of blood in the lungs, which then gets diluted down to 0.03 ppm in the body by the calculation I explained earlier. 

 

But if you only have 500 ml of H2 in your lungs, and the rest air, then you are going to get much less H2 dissolved in that 1 liter of blood surrounding the lungs, and so a correspondingly lower H2 ppm concentration in your body.

 

 

 


Edited by Hip, 21 May 2017 - 06:19 AM.

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#485 Hip

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 06:14 AM

 

 If you don't want to accept that breathing it is a good roa, then don't use it. Problem solved. 

 

The problem is that you are going around promoting your method of breathing H2, when you don't know whether or not it can stimulate ghrelin release (which may be the most important aspect of this health supplement). Yet you omit to mention this shortcoming in your posts about your method.  

 

 


Edited by Hip, 21 May 2017 - 06:14 AM.

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#486 Hip

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 06:16 PM

adamh, here is an idea for you: if you want to get scientific, you may be able to actually measure the ppm concentration of H2 in your blood and body resulting from breathing H2. 

 

The idea involves using the H2Blue drops (which cost $30 a bottle) to measure the ppm concentration of H2 in your saliva, some time after (say 30 minutes after) you breath in some H2 gas into your lungs in your usual way. The saliva ppm levels I am guessing should be a reflection of the general ppm level in your body and blood resulting from breathing in the H2.

 

The H2Blue drops can measure ppm levels down to an accuracy of 0.1 ppm, because each drop in the bottle represents 0.1 ppm of dissolved H2 gas. Basically, to use H2Blue, you add these drops, one by one, to a 6 ml sample of your solution to be tested (saliva in this case), counting the drops as you go. The 6 ml of solution of H2 will neutralize the blue color of the drops to begin with, but at a certain point, the color of the drops will stop being neutralized, and at this point, the number of drops that you have placed in the solution gives you the ppm of the solution. So for example, if the blue color of the drops stops being neutralized after 12 drops, then the H2 concentration of the solution being tested is 1.2 ppm.

 

Streamlover shows how to use the H2Blue drops in his video at timecode 12.50.

 

So, what you can do is perform your usual H2 breathing (taking your usual gulp of H2 gas into your lungs), and then after giving some time for the H2 gas to distribute around your body (I would wait say 30 minutes), then take an exact 6 ml sample of your saliva, and add the H2Blue drops to it, to measure the H2 concentration in the saliva.

 

In fact, because I calculated the concentration in the body (and thus the saliva) to be around 0.03 ppm after breathing a lungful H2 gas, that's actually too small to measure using the H2Blue drops (which can only measure down to 0.1 ppm), so what you can do is increase your body ppm levels by a factor of 10, by taking 10 of your usual gulps of H2 gas (over a period of several minutes), and then after waiting 30 minutes, measure your saliva ppm. By my calculation, the saliva ppm will then be around 0.3 ppm mark, which would correspond to 3 drops of H2Blue.

 

So then you just divide your saliva ppm results by 10 to get the body and blood ppm achieved from one of your usual gulps of H2 gas.

 

 

 

(If breathing in 10 of your usual gulps of H2 gas still does not produce a saliva ppm high enough to be measured, then you may have to increase your intake to say 30 gulps of H2 gas or more, and then measure the saliva ppm, and then divide your results by 30). 

 

 

 


Edited by Hip, 21 May 2017 - 06:27 PM.

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#487 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 03:10 AM

Hip, the idea of using H2Blue to measure one's endogenous H2 concentration sounds like a good idea. I wonder if urine would be better than saliva, though, because it's not exposed directly to outside air and therefore has no easy way to shed excess H2. (Maybe test both?) Obviously color is also a problem with urine. I guess one would need to drink excess water to dilute it beforehand.

 

 

Thanks to everyone for providing so much detail. That helps, considering that we have so many blindspots in the research.

 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 23 May 2017 - 03:13 AM.

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#488 Hip

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 03:39 AM

resveratrol_guy, yes, urine might also work. 







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