19 replies to this topic

[Carlos Bravo]

Hi folks:

 

First post here, I need some knowledge. I've been searching for a while but with no coclusion or direct information about daily values.  

 

I'm really confused... every country adapts those values to its legislation but It comes from scientific consensus. This consensus may vary over the years.

 

Looking for propietary formulas like Brain Dopamine Food or Ciltep (i'm not doing a nootropic post), I realized that the amount of every vitamine like B6 are over the DV. 

 

In this example the amount of B6 is 250% over the DV.... 250!!!! Knowing that vitamine B group is fat soluble i don't know it that amount in a daily basis can cause any damage.

 

[Iporuru]

Vitamins B are water soluble. A useful answer from Dr. Weil's website about excess vitamins B:

http://www.drweil.co...cause-problems/

 

[Carlos Bravo]

My bad, thanks for the info about vitamin B, checking it out already.

[OneScrewLoose]

As has been touched upon, you have you're water soluble vitamins (the B Vitamins, Vitamin C), and your fat soluble vitamins (Vitamin A, D, E). Your body doesn't readily store fat soluble vitamins, so now matter how much you take, you piss out the excess, and you are safe (the except being folic acid [not other forms of folate], which has been linked to cancer). The fat soluble vitamins, well, are fat soluble. Your body readily takes in and stores fat in adipose tissues. So when it does this, it takes in the vitamins with it. That's why surpassing the RDA for these vitamins over a long period of time (well, the RDA is a little low, but you generally don't want to go over 5000IU, I take 2000IU), can be harmful.

Always, watch out for supplements like that, the stick ingredients in their for the sake of having them, but there dose is so low that they do nothing. Multivitamins, like Alive, are notorious for this. In this case that Forskolin might as not be there at all with such a low dose, but I bet it looks pretty there, no? 

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 19 October 2016 - 08:10 PM.

[stan08]

As has been touched upon, you have you're fat soluble vitamins (the B Vitamins, Vitamin C), and your water soluble vitamins (Vitamin A, D, E). Your body doesn't readily store fat soluble vitamins, so now matter how much you take, you piss out the excess, and you are safe (the except being folic acid [not other forms of folate], which has been linked to cancer). The fat soluble vitamins, well, are fat soluble. Your body readily takes in and stores fat in adipose tissues. So when it does this, it takes in the vitamins with it. That's why surpassing the RDA for these vitamins over a long period of time (well, the RDA is a little low, but you generally don't want to go over 5000IU, I take 2000IU), can be harmful.

Always, watch out for supplements like that, the stick ingredients in their for the sake of having them, but there dose is so low that they do nothing. Multivitamins, like Alive, are notorious for this. In this case that Forskolin might as not be there at all with such a low dose, but I bet it looks pretty there, no? 

 

You accidentally listed B and C as fat soluble and A, D and E as water soluble.  Might want to correct that before someone gets confused.  

[OneScrewLoose]

Thanks for catching that, a bit tired.

[aconita]

...and the 5000IU/day likely refers to vitamin D.

 

....and vitamin K is fat soluble as well.

 

RDA is the minimum dosage required to not suffer serious health issues from insufficient intake, not the healthiest amount needed for optimal performance...and even considering that there is no general consensus or certainty about those values, which in facts may change from country to country or by time and research passing by. 

[OneScrewLoose]

I disagree. For vitamins A and E, two of the fat soluble vitamins I mentioned, the RDA is plenty. I already clarified Vitamin D. For the water soluble vitamins, yes, the RDA is insufficient. One can argue about Vitamin E, but Vitamin A toxicity is nothing to laugh at.

[aconita]

Toxicity of A and D is related to their ratio, if it is appropriate quite large amounts are safe, in isolation is another story.

 

Vitamin D at 5000IU/day with only RDA vitamin A is likely unsafe in the long run, for example.

[OneScrewLoose]

Source please. No blogs, pubmed paper please.

[aconita]

Are you really sure everything in Pubmed is the holy true?

 

Actually 90% is bullshit anyway, me think.

 

...and besides the net there are books too, you know...those things with pages....many of them, one after the other one...

 

Sincerely I can't remember where I got it, is just knowledge since quite long time now and actually I don't feel like spending hours to search for references that might satisfy you, do your own research if you really care, as I do when somebody states something I never heard about.  

 

Or just ignore me, i don't really care since you are not the only one reading this and it isn't a personal conversation. 

 

Don't take me wrong: no any reason for hard feelings whatsoever!

[OneScrewLoose]

Yes, knowledge, that you have, that I should take for granted as true, in the field that is the most important thing that there is, HEALTH.

 

You made the claim, you have the burden of proof, that's how it works. OK then, cite a reputable book, that's fine with me.

[aconita]

I don't carry any burden and nobody has to take my knowledge for granted, whom doesn't know what I am talking about is invited to research the topic as already suggested: it would be more interesting and illuminating.

 

....maybe starting from here could help the really lazy ones unable do digit "Vitamin A D ratio" in a search engine:

 

http://www.westonapr...tamins-a-and-d/

 

Ooooops...but that's not Pubmed!!!

 

Damn....

 

Good luck finding double blinded studies on this kind of topics, which even if existing would be likely contradicting each others as most studies about most health topics do....

 

...and you are back to square one.

 

I am afraid that if you are looking for truth beyond any possible doubt this planet is not the best place for you to live on, with or without holy Pubmed and double blinded studies.

 

 

[pamojja]

One can argue about Vitamin E, but Vitamin A toxicity is nothing to laugh at.

 

Well, seems quit difficult to accomplish, actually:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retinol

 

Vitamin A acute toxicity occurs when an individual ingests vitamin A in large amounts more than the daily recommended value in the threshold of 25,000 IU/kg or more. Often, the individual consumes about 3–4 times the RDA's specification.^[1] Toxicity of vitamin A is believed to be associated with the intervention methods used to upgrade vitamin A levels in the body such as food modification, fortification and supplementation, all of which are employed to combat vitamin A deficiency^[12] Toxicity is classified into two categories: acute and chronic toxicities. The former occurs few hours or days after ingestion of large amounts of vitamin A accidentally or via inappropriate therapy. The later toxicity (Chronic) takes place when about 4,000 IU/kg or more of vitamin A is consumed for a prolonged period of time.

 

Accordingly, for a 70kg person, it would take chronic ingestion of 280.000 IUs daily.

 

Personally, in such important matter and conflicting opinions I just test serum levels. In average reached mid-range with about 7.700 IU Vitamin D3, but 13.000 IU Retinol till now didn't bring me higher than the low quarter of normal range.

Edited by pamojja, 20 October 2016 - 06:20 AM.

[pamojja]

 In average reached mid-range with about 7.700 IU Vitamin D3, but 13.000 IU Retinol till now didn't bring me higher than the low quarter of normal range.

 
With the caveat I should add, that I tested D3 in total 11 times during the last 7 years with varying intakes. While I tested Retinol only twice, each after months of higher than average intake (>20.000 IU).

[aribadabar]

As has been touched upon, you have you're water soluble vitamins (the B Vitamins, Vitamin C), and your fat soluble vitamins (Vitamin A, D, E). Your body doesn't readily store WATER  fat soluble vitamins, so now matter how much you take, you piss out the excess, 

 

FTFY

[OneScrewLoose]

I don't carry any burden and nobody has to take my knowledge for granted, whom doesn't know what I am talking about is invited to research the topic as already suggested: it would be more interesting and illuminating.

 

....maybe starting from here could help the really lazy ones unable do digit "Vitamin A D ratio" in a search engine:

 

http://www.westonapr...tamins-a-and-d/

 

Ooooops...but that's not Pubmed!!!

 

Damn....

 

Good luck finding double blinded studies on this kind of topics, which even if existing would be likely contradicting each others as most studies about most health topics do....

 

...and you are back to square one.

 

I am afraid that if you are looking for truth beyond any possible doubt this planet is not the best place for you to live on, with or without holy Pubmed and double blinded studies.

 

You don't carry any burden, so you don't know how science works?

You make a claim, but call me lazy for not looking it up, when you don't back it up?

 

The link you posted cites one source, and also references Mercola, the quack who recommended using tanning beds instead of Vitamin D supplements to get Vitamin D supplements to get Vitamin D, as he sold them. He was making money off skin cancer.

 

So double blind studies are bad? Should we completely replace how we test drugs with Google searches?

You do realize pubmed is simply a search engine for journal papers, right? You could simply link me to a paper directly from a place like sciencedirect instead. Or, perhaps the issue here is that you are unable to read these papers?

Get back to me when you have a clue on what you're talking about.

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 24 October 2016 - 11:22 PM.

[aconita]

As I already pointed out this is not a personal conversation between me and you therefore I don't really care about your opinion about my posts, if you don't feel comfortable with them it is your problem, not mine...but I would be curious to know how concerned would you feel when Dr. Mercola's lawyer will ask you for double blinded studies or scientific papers links about "(Dr. Mercola) making money off skin cancer." by recommending and selling "tanning beds". 

 

I might suggest you to make sure that screw is properly tightened up before hitting the keyboard next time.

 

All the best

 

 

[RWhigham]

Vitamin D3 should be accompanied by vitamin A in a weight ratio of 5:1 for A/D,

It should also be accompanied by "adequate" vitamin K.

http://www.westonapr...tamins-a-and-d/

 

In contrast to the other fat soluble vitamins A, D, and E, there is no upper limit for the vitamin K's - K1, MK-4, and MK-7.

Vitamin K is rapidly metabolized and excreted. Mega doses of vitamin K may prevent arterial calcification and occasionally reverse atherosclerosis. 

http://www.k-vitamin...p?page=My_Story

 

Example:

10,000 IU per day of vitamin D3 = 70,000 IU/wk = 1.75 mg/wk.

10,000 IU of vitamin A from fish oil 3x/wk (MWF) = 30,000 IU/wk = 9 mg/wk.  (Nature's Way Vitamin A 10,000 IU)

9 mg/1.75 mg = 5.1 which is ideal.

 

Note:

I believe 10,000/day of D3 should be accompanied by at least 90 mcg/day of MK-7  (Jarrow)

You could also add 5 mg/day of MK-4 (Carlson) and 1000 mcg/day of K1 (Nature's Life).

(see 1st reference above).

 

You could even add Koncentrated-K which is supposed to contain K1 5 mg, MK4 25 mg, MK7 500 mcg, and astaxanthin 2 mg. (I don't know how he does it. I'd like to see a lab analysis for Koncentrated-K, but I started taking it to see if I can lower my calcification score from 8 to 0)

 

I took "8,000 IU/day " of vitamin D3 with 90 mcg of MK-7 since the 1990's.  My "vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy" is currently 85 ng/mL. (The large doses of vitamin D corrected the quality of my semen after antibiotics failed - from thin and yellow to thick and white). In the 1990's the largest dose I could find was 2000 IU - I took 4/day. Now I take 5,000 IU 2/day = 10,000 IU/day.

 

Over the counter vitamins are notoriously inaccurate on dosage, typically containing 60% of indicated. So I may not take as much D3 as I think. The industry is self-regulating in the US, aka the fox tends the hen house.

 

Edited by RWhigham, 27 October 2016 - 03:54 PM.

[Carlos Bravo]

Thanks for the info RWhigman