103 replies to this topic

[ajnast4r]

i (and i believe most of you) consider probiotics to be a must have supplement, right up there with a multi & omega3. so what do you guys take?

im currently taking ethical nutrients(metagenics) dairy free intestinal care... imo its one of if not the best probiotic on the market. it costs about 40 bucks for 90 pills, which is a pretty good deal.

"The purity, clinical reliability, and predicted safety of Metagenics probiotic formulas are guaranteed through the scientific certification of strains with established health benefits. Assuring potency and high viability, each strain is also tested for acid tolerance and cell adherence in vitro"

ive been giving this stuff some thought too, it looks interesting but i need to research it a bit more:

http://www.naturodoc.../probiotics.htm
http://www.iherb.com/ohhira1.html

[eternaltraveler]

i drink kefir that I make myself.

[biknut]

How would one know if you need this?

[ajnast4r]

How would one know if you need this?

its like a multivitamin... everyone needs one as a basic maintenance. to make sure you have friendly bacteria that produce good things (b vitamins, vitamin k, substances that destroy putrefactive bacteria, immune stimulating compounds), and just just putrefactive bacteria producing toxins.

read this: http://www.naturodoc.../probiotics.htm

Edited by ajnast4r, 04 February 2006 - 03:48 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

This is what I am going to buy for a probiotic:

Theralac

20 billion CFU per capsule and they keep it refrigerated while in storage. They've also done something really fancy with the coating and the specific strains of bacteria they use were isolated from the digestive tract of healthy humans. Its like the Geronova Mito-Gold of probiotics.

Edited by funkodyssey, 04 February 2006 - 05:09 AM.

[brizel]

I use Culturelle GG strain lactobacillis which has been University tested. http://www.culturell...about_lacto.jsp

I also highly recommend Kefir. Kefir contains several major strains of friendly bacteria not commonly found in yogurt, Lactobacillus Caucasus, Leuconostoc, Acetobacter species, and Streptococcus species. Kefir also has proven weight loss benefit.

[dayfly]

I've recently started taking probiotics too. I chose www.customprobiotics.com since they mix (like the name suggests) custom formulations. According to my test results at doctorsdata.com I have max. count of Lactobacillus but almost none Bifido. In the healthbooks of the healthyawareness.com forum many people find that after taking large doses of Lactobacillus long term they have too much lactobacillus in the small intestine which might cause problems as well.
Based on my test results of my stool analyses, Harry Bronozian, the owner of customprobiotics mixed a powder formulation for me that consists of 80% Bifido (3 strains) and 20% Lactobacillus (2 strains) with a total bacteria count of 300 billion/gramm.
There are several independent lab tests which claim that most of the bacterias in common probiotics are already dead when purchasing the product. Customprobiotics had a great result in those tests with more than 90% of alive bacterias.

[ajnast4r]

i drink kefir that I make myself.

awesome... i wish i wasnt alergic to dairy, kefir is so good.
i wonder if you could make kefir out of soymilk?

claim that most of the bacterias in common probiotics are already dead when purchasing the product.

yup, thats a big issue with probiotic pills.. gotta make sure your pills are guarenteed to maintain the claimed potency levels through the experation date.

[xanadu]

Is acidophilus considered a good one to take?

[ajnast4r]

This is what I am going to buy for a probiotic:

Theralac

i saw that on relentlessimprovement.com, and ive been checking it out. looks like a pretty good product. theres a few things that i REALLY like about it. im cant decide which one to pick, theralac or the ohhira stuff(which is more like a fermented food paste in a pill) i posted above...

i like theralac because: 1) the provide colony formation testing, and microbiological assays for each lot 2) the pills are acid proof, but not a synthetic enteric coating 3) only has to take it twice a week

i like the ohhira stuff because: 1) not centrefuged, and still contains the supernatant growth medium 2) 'live' bactera, not freezedried


i like both... i dont know which one to pick :/

xanadu

Is acidophilus considered a good one to take?

acidophilus is one of the many pro-biotic bacteria you can take... you should take something a little more broad spectrum, make sure it includes bifidobacterium also... as they reside in different parts of the intestines.

things to look for:
1) scientifically proven strains
2) potency guarenteed through expiration
3) acid-proof coated, or bacteria tested for acid tollerance

[eternaltraveler]

awesome... i wish i wasnt alergic to dairy, kefir is so good.
i wonder if you could make kefir out of soymilk?

I don't think so, though you might want to look into it.

[ajnast4r]

awesome... i wish i wasnt alergic to dairy, kefir is so good.
i wonder if you could make kefir out of soymilk?

I don't think so, though you might want to look into it.

yea im gonna look into it... i have a soymilk maker that i make fresh soymilk from, and i know you can make soy yogurt from that milk. i would imagine you could do kefir too.

where did you get ur starter culture from?

[eternaltraveler]

I brought kefir grains with me back from the caucasus

If you are going to try get real kefir grains, you should be able to find them online fairly easily. Places that sell so called kefir starter cultures are junk. I'd send you some myself but I'm in grenada at the moment.

[ajnast4r]

interesting study... most of these didnt even contain what was listed, some didnt culture at ALL, and some actually contained pathenogens

http://www.ispub.com...ol1n2/lacto.xml

[ajnast4r]

after some pretty extensive conversation with the owner of the american distro company for the ohhira stuff, ive decided they meet all my standards and am gonna go with their product...

he emailed me a ton of info if anyone is interested, just PM me.

[rfarris]

Wow. I reviewed the Ohhira information you sent me. It sounds very good, but it is very expensive. Even Theralac looks cheap compared to Ohhira probiotic...

[FunkOdyssey]

Theralac IS cheap if you use it as directed... its $15 a month for your first course of it and then its $10 a month for their prescribed maintenance regimen.

[ajnast4r]

as per some of the info i was sent, the immune system responds to anything over around 10billion CFU, viewing it as an invader and attacking/killing it... regardless if they are 'good' or 'bad' bacteria. which would lead to a drastically less effective colonization of the gut than something with less bacteria.

im gonna have to look into that a bit, im gonna contact therabiotics and see what they say on it.

[mitkat]

Okay, I bought some kefir, how much should I drink? It's all...neat tasting. I have a lot of reading to do on probiotics, so I figured I would just start here.

[dayfly]

as per some of the info i was sent, the immune system responds to anything over around 10billion CFU, viewing it as an invader and attacking/killing it... regardless if they are 'good' or 'bad' bacteria. which would lead to a drastically less effective colonization of the gut than something with less bacteria.

I don't believe that! Maybe that's a cheap trick of a certain company that's producing probiotics in order to push their products. Please post a serious study on that!
Considering the fact that in any case a big part if not even a major part of the bacterias do not arrive in the intestines because the stomach acid breaks them, then you can basically never take too much friendly bacterias.
I'm pretty sure that probiotics belong to the few supplements that cannot be taken in excess.

[ajnast4r]

I don't believe that! Maybe that's a cheap trick of a certain company that's producing probiotics in order to push their products. Please post a serious study on that!
Considering the fact that in any case a big part if not even a major part of the bacterias do not arrive in the intestines because the stomach acid breaks them, then you can basically never take too much friendly bacterias.
I'm pretty sure that probiotics belong to the few supplements that cannot be taken in excess.

i am looking for studies & stuff, and ill be contacting a few companies... ill post back in a few days with my results.

theralac is acid-proof coated, ie: all bacteria reach the intestines... what i was told that the body does not recognise types of bacteria as good bacteria and bad bacteria, that its simply recognises 'self' and 'not self'... and if 'not self' is in excess, it destroys it as a safeguard.

again i dont know if this is true, but ill get to the bottom of it.

[ajnast4r]

The Japanese are not the only scientists who caution against using high bacterial count probiotics.  In Probiotics: A Critical Review, the author examines the body’s autoimmune response to the entry of tens of billions of lactic acid bacteria—regardless of whether they are alive or dead, friendly or unfriendly1.  The author notes that when bacteria enter the body, the body immediately determines whether the invading bacteria are of “self” or “non-self.”  When the body determines that the invading bacteria are of “non-self,” which usually occurs when large numbers of bacteria enter the body, it elicits an autoimmune response against the bacteria and directs the body to fight the invaders.  When this occurs, a substantial number of bacteria are destroyed because of the immune system’s inherent response to “non-self” invaders

1 Tannock, Gerald W., Probiotics: A Critical Review, Horizon Scientific Press, January 1999.

[xanadu]

How could the body destroy bacteria in the gut? Would white blood cells leave the walls of the intestines and mix with digesting food to attack bacteria? That makes no sense. Perhaps antibodies get into the bile?

[rfarris]

Not only that, the Ohhira product doesn't have huge CFUs per tablet, but if you look at their info they suggest 10- to 12- tablets/day starting, and that adds up to quite a heavy load, to say nothing of $50 in less than a week.

[xanadu]

It seems strange to me that all the stuff recommended has a markup of at least 100 times. Anything of a reasonable price is always knocked by someone.

[dayfly]

I highly recommend reading the ebooks of the healthyawareness.com forum to everyone! Many of the authors have suffered from severe intestinal diseases and tell their experiences in those ebooks. There is an extra section about probiotics as well. Many of the authors made good experiences with the following probiotics:

- www.customprobiotics.com

- www.natren.com

- www.vsl3.com

Two of the above mentioned probiotics contain more than 300 billion cfu's/gramm. There was no defensive immune reaction observed and the longer I think about it the more confusing this theory appears to me. For those who do not really suffer from digestive problems/intestinal diseases but want to take probiotics anyway should maybe try the CP-1 adult formulation by customprobiotics since it contains "only" 25 billion bacterias from two Bifido strains and 3 Lactobacillus strains.
I admit that the Theralac as offered at relentlessimprovement.com looks good as well but it is far too expensive!

[rfarris]

...the Theralac as offered at relentlessimprovement.com looks good as well but it is far too expensive!

Theralac is about $10/month. How could that be far too expensive? That Ohhira product is the incredibly expensive one. Perhaps $100/month.

[ajnast4r]

...the Theralac as offered at relentlessimprovement.com looks good as well but it is far too expensive!

Theralac is about $10/month. How could that be far too expensive? That Ohhira product is the incredibly expensive one. Perhaps $100/month.

i agree, theralac is very cheap.

but the ohhira stuff i 5 pills a day through one box, as a loading phase... then 2 pills a day as maintenance.

so disregarding the loading phase, thats about 40$ a month.


im actually considering the theralac just because of the price.

[sentrysnipe]

On Japanese and bacteria, it's interesting to know that their most common form of cancer is stomach cancer, probably because of the abundance of raw meat/seafood (sushi bacterial contamination?) in their diet. (Disclaimer, no statistical/scientific data to show you)

EDIT: So what should we look for in choosing the right probiotic formula then? The higher the cfu count the better? Powdered form more bioavailable? Caplets, capsules ok? I am taking Custom Probiotics at the moment.

[dayfly]

Theralac is about $10/month. How could that be far too expensive? That Ohhira product is the incredibly expensive one. Perhaps $100/month.

Well, in comparison to customprobiotics or VSL3 it actually is very expensive. I mean just do the math: Theralac is 30 capsules x 20 billion cfu's = 600 billion cfu's = $39

Whereas the CP1 probiotics from customprobiotics that consists of Lactobacillus Acidophilus, L. Rhamnosus, L. Plantarum, Bifidobacterium Longum, B. Bifidum with a total count of 25-69 billion cfu's/capsule and has 90 capsules ( 90 x 25 billion= 2250 billion cfu's) costs only = $40.

You had to buy more than 3 bottles of the Theralac to achieve the same benefits! Still think Theralac is cheap?

So what should we look for in choosing the right probiotic formula then? The higher the cfu count the better? Powdered form more bioavailable? Caplets, capsules ok? I am taking Custom Probiotics at the moment.

I consider customprobiotics as the best probiotics available! Have ordered it recently but still waiting for the package to arrive.
Do you use a custom formulation or the CP1? What are your experiences? I read a lot of positive customer feedbacks in many forums about customsprobiotics!