7 replies to this topic

[Nocturno]

So I don't have any MTHFR mutation (slowing the mthfr enzyme , from converting folic acid along the methylation cycle.) 
But want to test my methylation in relation to SAMe>Phenylaline>tyrosine >dopamine  , and generally the effect . (Since I'm low on dopamine based on two dopamine related SNPs COMT- - and ValTaq ++) 

Any reason to supplement with a higher grade Folate formulation than folinic acid? 

Also vegan with a compromised diet ATM  , So some SAMe will convert to phosphatidylecholine and creatine , and I'm generally not getting the adequate methyl donors, b6. 

(Do take methylcobalamin and magnesium) 

[Kabb]

I seem to recall that folinic acid is preferred with methylfolate as a very good alternative.

 

If you're vegan then you surely must be taking supplementary carnitine.  Some prefer ALCAR and say it has several advantages over l-carnitine but my own experience is firmly in favour of l-carnitine.

 

 

[Nocturno]

I seem to recall that folinic acid is preferred with methylfolate as a very good alternative.

 

If you're vegan then you surely must be taking supplementary carnitine.  Some prefer ALCAR and say it has several advantages over l-carnitine but my own experience is firmly in favour of l-carnitine.

Quite surely I don't have to : 
From wiki: 
"Humans synthesize carnitine from the substrate TML (6-N-trimethyllysine), which is in turn derived from the methylation of the amino acid lysine. TML is then hydroxylated into hydroxytrimethyllysine (HTML) by trimethyllysine dioxygenase, requiring the presence of ascorbic acid. HTML is then cleaved by HTML aldose, yielding 4-trimethylaminobutyraldehyde (TMABA) and glycine. TMABA is then dehydrogenated into gamma-butyrobetaine, in an NAD⁺-dependent reaction, catalyzed by TMABA dehydrogenase. Gamma-butyrobetaine is then hydroxylated by gamma butyrobetaine hydroxylase into L-carnitine, requiring iron in the form of Fe²⁺.<sup>[4] " 

It might save me some Iron and NAD+ from being used , but then again idk if they're recycled afterwards , so nah. 

I experimented with ALCAR in the past , and I only remember it gave me a horrible insomnia at normal dosage , and not much in lower dosage , don't have time and money to start experimenting again</sup>

[Kabb]

It is well established that many,although not all, vegetarians need supplementary l-carnitine for a narrow summary in Wikipedia to contradict it.  Carnitine was originally considered a vitamin (definition: a necessary compound the body can not synthesize) but was later found that the body could in fact make small quantities which are generally sufficient but not always.

 

You may be one of the lucky vegetarians who can synthesise all your need for l-carnitine but many vegetarians can not as they lack dietary carnitine.  Carnitine gets depleted at times of stress and a shortfall may not reveal itself until those moments.  There is a large literature on this which I won't even try to copy here.

 

I'm not a fan of ALCAR although it has a rave following in the nootropic community which claims it is better in all respects than l-carnitine but that has not been my personal experience.  ALCAR is stimulating on account of its acetyl component and involvement in the production of acetylcholine which may be great but has nothing to do with carnitine's various roles in the body  - specifically the prevention and removal of toxic by-products from incomplete fatty acid oxidation in the mitochondria.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nocturno]

It is well established that many,although not all, vegetarians need supplementary l-carnitine for a narrow summary in Wikipedia to contradict it.  Carnitine was originally considered a vitamin (definition: a necessary compound the body can not synthesize) but was later found that the body could in fact make small quantities which are generally sufficient but not always.

 

You may be one of the lucky vegetarians who can synthesise all your need for l-carnitine but many vegetarians can not as they lack dietary carnitine.  Carnitine gets depleted at times of stress and a shortfall may not reveal itself until those moments.  There is a large literature on this which I won't even try to copy here.

 

I'm not a fan of ALCAR although it has a rave following in the nootropic community which claims it is better in all respects than l-carnitine but that has not been my personal experience.  ALCAR is stimulating on account of its acetyl component and involvement in the production of acetylcholine which may be great but has nothing to do with carnitine's various roles in the body  - specifically the prevention and removal of toxic by-products from incomplete fatty acid oxidation in the mitochondria.

Sounds legit , thanks letting me know . 
Still wondering about the folate

 

[Elroy]

There's certainly no need to take methylfolate if you don't have MTHFR mutations and it's a bad idea if you're an overmethylator (as determined by a whole blood histamine test). I remember folinic acid made me worse and I found a good reason for that, but I can't remember or find my notes on why. I stick with the 400mcg folic acid in my multi-B vitamin, more is not always better.

 

Here's a good article on it. https://www.samantha...ate-friend-foe/

 

P5P (pyridoxal-5-phosphate) is a good form of B6 if you're low.

[normalizing]

i have MTHFR problem, but i was reading taking extra folic acid is actually not that good for you. it can cause cancer and people with the MTHFR usually have lower rates of cancer. but on the other hand, it causes many other problems if you are deficient, which is a real pain in the ass!

[Elroy]

hazy, people with MTHFR C677T ++ should avoid all foods with large amounts of folate in them, especially foods enriched with folic acid, trace amounts of dietary folate is okay. Supplemental methylfolate is recommended, to be exact (6S)-5-methyltetrahydrofolate (5-MTHF).

For those with MTHFR C677T +-, it's not such a big deal, avoid folic/folinic acid and enriched foods. If undermethylator, supplement with small amount of methylfolate.

For those with MTHFR C677T --, supplementing with methylfolate is unnecessary and may be a bad idea.