• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Hair ReGrowth (this time with pics and all)

hair

  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Ovidus

  • Guest
  • 128 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Europe

Posted 05 September 2017 - 01:39 PM


Ok Guys, I know this will be the 245,345th discussion on regrowing lost hair. However, the below link must be discussed
http://www.timelessl...re/#comment-778

 

Here a gentleman has regrown his hair by simply applying Nicotinamide Riboside to his scalp. The method he used is extremely simple, whereby he has simply emptied the contents of a capsule, dissolved it in water and splashed it onto his scalp. I would have dismissed this if I had not experienced the amazing results of Nicotinamide Riboside myself (orally that is, not used in this fashion).

 

The discussion about whether this would actually work is going to be pure speculation; there is simply no data to go by. I therefore suggest we primarily focus on what the best method to apply N.Riboside on the scalp would be. Is the method mentioned above feasible? Can you suggest a more effective way? How often? What other tips would you have to the adventurous among us who'd like to give this a try?

 

Thanks a ton...


  • unsure x 1

#2 lemonhead

  • Guest
  • 165 posts
  • 161
  • Location:The Uncanny Valley
  • NO

Posted 06 September 2017 - 05:43 PM

If you are interested specifically in the efficacy of topical NR, then you might try a 5-10% solution in water and apply to the scalp with a Q-tip. I'm suggesting that range because niacinamide is used in that range for skin and hair. Niacinamide is quite a bit cheaper than NR;  you could instead try niacinamide 8%, caffeine 6%, and melatonin 1% in distilled water. Melatonin typically does not dissolve well in water, but in this combination for some reason it just requires a bit of stirring. I add a bit of glycerin and propylene glycol for easier application. Topical castor oil also works for some people.



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for AGELESS LOOKS to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 Oakman

  • Member
  • 1,166 posts
  • 1,516
  • Location:CO

Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:05 PM

I've dissolved NR into some commercial gels and creams to use on skin and scalp. Resultsare difficult to judge, probably because my (long ago departed) hair follicles are simply not around to be rejuvenated in any significant number. So (for me) the jury is still out, but the real question is, why should NR regrow any hair in the first place?



#4 lemonhead

  • Guest
  • 165 posts
  • 161
  • Location:The Uncanny Valley
  • NO

Posted 08 September 2017 - 05:51 PM

My best guess would be because of its effects on inflammation.

 

If your hair follicles are stubbornly dormant, you may want to try rosemary extract (alcohol extract). I tried taking it orally and had a noticeable increase in hair follicle activity all over; unfortunately, I also got a bunch of spider veins. Some people use it topically; it is probably safer that way. Other stuff that grows hair: blueberries and porcini mushrooms (increases cycle length).


Edited by lemonhead, 08 September 2017 - 05:52 PM.


#5 Ovidus

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 128 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Europe

Posted 09 September 2017 - 12:24 PM

If you are interested specifically in the efficacy of topical NR, then you might try a 5-10% solution in water and apply to the scalp with a Q-tip. I'm suggesting that range because niacinamide is used in that range for skin and hair. Niacinamide is quite a bit cheaper than NR;  you could instead try niacinamide 8%, caffeine 6%, and melatonin 1% in distilled water. Melatonin typically does not dissolve well in water, but in this combination for some reason it just requires a bit of stirring. I add a bit of glycerin and propylene glycol for easier application. Topical castor oil also works for some people.

 

Can you explain the logic behind using melatonin?



#6 Harkijn

  • Guest
  • 717 posts
  • 208
  • Location:Amsterdam
  • NO

Posted 09 September 2017 - 12:56 PM

Posted today in the Spermidine thread by Darryl:

 

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0022564


  • Informative x 1

#7 lemonhead

  • Guest
  • 165 posts
  • 161
  • Location:The Uncanny Valley
  • NO

Posted 09 September 2017 - 04:41 PM

Topical Melatonin for Treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3681103/

 

 

re: spermidine

Well, I eat natto. I don't think I would try it topically, however.

 

Also,  forgot to mention - laser hair combs also work, though the first time I used mine I got a lot of coarse wiry hair growth. Not so much now that I've been using the castor oil and Nia/caffeine/melatonin.


Edited by lemonhead, 09 September 2017 - 04:42 PM.

  • Informative x 1

#8 Oakman

  • Member
  • 1,166 posts
  • 1,516
  • Location:CO

Posted 09 September 2017 - 07:41 PM

Topical Melatonin for Treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3681103/

 

 

re: spermidine

Well, I eat natto. I don't think I would try it topically, however.

 

Also,  forgot to mention - laser hair combs also work, though the first time I used mine I got a lot of coarse wiry hair growth. Not so much now that I've been using the castor oil and Nia/caffeine/melatonin.

 

Found couple items that are interesting...

 

Natural Ingredient for Healthy Hair and Nail Treatment with Anti-ageing

 

Live Young: Wheat germ

 

Might be worth supplementing wheat germ oil occasionally (or topically for hair growth?)


  • Informative x 1
  • like x 1

#9 Advocatus Diaboli

  • Guest
  • 178 posts
  • 181
  • Location:Chronosynclastic Infundibulum ( floor Z/p^nZ )
  • NO

Posted 09 September 2017 - 09:49 PM

Re: post #8

 

At least one article suggests that topical wheat germ oil is a bogus treatment for hair regrowth.

 

Quote from above link:

 

"In 1980 an advisory panel to the US Food and Drug Administration evaluated a number of substances used in hair lotions and creams—including amino acids, aminobenzoic acid, ascorbic acid, benzoic acid, B vitamins, hormones, jojoba oil, lanolin, polysorbates 20 and 660, sulphanilamide, tetracaine hydrochloride, urea, and wheat germ oiland subsequently proposed that these products be removed from the market.28Other ineffective remedies include scalp massage, dietary modification, frequent shampooing, electrical stimulation, and Chinese herbal extracts.27"



#10 lemonhead

  • Guest
  • 165 posts
  • 161
  • Location:The Uncanny Valley
  • NO

Posted 10 September 2017 - 02:11 PM

I've also read that castor oil 'doesn't work' / 'doesn't do anything'. Who do I believe, 'them' or my lyin' eyes? That said, I have no reason to try wheat germ oil as I've been getting good results with what I've been doing, but I would not be so quick to discount its efficacy.

 

Generally what I do is patch test, first on my wrist for a day or two, then on my scalp for a couple of weeks in a spot where I can see what's going on (usually up front just above the temples). I want to make sure I am not going to do any harm  and also check for efficacy.



#11 Oakman

  • Member
  • 1,166 posts
  • 1,516
  • Location:CO

Posted 10 September 2017 - 03:02 PM

Re: post #8

 

At least one article suggests that topical wheat germ oil is a bogus treatment for hair regrowth.

 

Quote from above link:

 

"In 1980 an advisory panel to the US Food and Drug Administration evaluated a number of substances used in hair lotions and creams—including amino acids, aminobenzoic acid, ascorbic acid, benzoic acid, B vitamins, hormones, jojoba oil, lanolin, polysorbates 20 and 660, sulphanilamide, tetracaine hydrochloride, urea, and wheat germ oiland subsequently proposed that these products be removed from the market.28Other ineffective remedies include scalp massage, dietary modification, frequent shampooing, electrical stimulation, and Chinese herbal extracts.27"

 

So I read the (37 year old) ruling concerning this, and had these thoughts.... First, wow, that's a long time ago, and since...

 

1) FDA approved Minoxidil (as Rogaine) in the '80s and Finastiride in the '90s for hair loss treatment

2) An FDA approved Red Light Therapy device was introduced in 2007 for hair loss (LLLT - Low Level Light Therapy)

 

In the original determination, much was made by the FDA panel of the lack of clinical results for otherwise widely touted therapies, and anecdotal reports of successful treatments. Without these clinical studies, the FDA simply denied anything proposed, and also didn't like many submitted studies, and so denied their claims as well.

 

This made me wonder what would deter someone from conducting more studies on these substances, done correctly, to get approval for a therapy that could be worth a lot of money if successful. A little research brought up some staggering cost estimates, and they give credence to the thought that the FDA process is keeping otherwise potentially positive treatments buried and off the market, for lack of ...well ..  money.  And certainly no generic, unpatentable substance will ever get financed, because there is no pot-o-gold at the end of the rainbow for these. I'm thinking of those everyday substances mentioned in the original ruling for example.

 

Back to money, I'm assuming "dermatology" is the category of interest here, and even though relative costs are low compared to other areas, $50,000,000 is no small amount to wager on the hopes of getting successful results. No wonder so few products are ever sent through this process.

 

aa8d83_def17c3d45df445d8d6af29ad349225c~

 

Considering the three 'proven treatments', the only one with no side effects is the LLLT, and is something that can be done at home with relatively inexpensive equipment over a long period of treatment. Perhaps also in conjunction with some other 'unproven' substances (Niagen, wheat germ, etc) to support cellular follicle biogenesis. I have plans to test this out with my own N=1 study, so hair's hoping! 


Edited by Oakman, 10 September 2017 - 03:06 PM.

  • Good Point x 1

#12 Harkijn

  • Guest
  • 717 posts
  • 208
  • Location:Amsterdam
  • NO

Posted 10 September 2017 - 03:37 PM

Please keep us posted, Oakman.

 

Slightly off-topic but for fun and recreation I post a link to a commercial website offering a hair-regrowth pill containing a number of ingredients among which spermidine! The word spermidine is not mentioned very much but if you download the pdf about BIogenina you'll read that to them this is a very important part of their product.

http://www.tricovel....ts/tablets.html

 



#13 Advocatus Diaboli

  • Guest
  • 178 posts
  • 181
  • Location:Chronosynclastic Infundibulum ( floor Z/p^nZ )
  • NO

Posted 10 September 2017 - 05:33 PM

@lemonhead (post #10) I wasn't discounting the effectiveness of wheat germ oil for hair regrowth (and I don't think you were assuming that I was when you wrote "I would not be so quick to discount its efficacy", I suspect that you were making a general aside). I was merely offering a citation that suggested that wheat germ oil was a bogus treatment, expressing neither my agreement nor my disagreement. I'm like you in that your "Who do I believe, 'them' or my lyin' eyes?" rings true for me.
 
I've cited a paraphrased Lord Kelvin quote a number of times here on Longecity (people may be getting sick of it, hah hah). But, "To measure is to know" (note that in the full quote "scarcely" has been typoed as "scarely") remains as a paramount factor for my consideration.
 
@Oakman (post #11) Well, the citation being 37 years old may or may not have relevance (after all, the General Theory of Relativity has recently celebrated its 100th anniversary in 2015, but maybe it should have been 2016 depending on how one wants to split hairs, hah hah--had to get that in to complement your "hair's hoping!" :-D (Hopefully we won't be starting a word battle in proffering or parading a panoply of paronomasias too (or even alliteration, hah hah).
 
It's too bad that many cheap effective treatments don't get the notice they deserve--for example a simple, affordable, safe, and effective treatment for nail fungus is a 1% solution of povidone iodine in DMSO . But, until word gets around people are stuck with semi-effective topical treatments such as Jublia and Penlac or systemic treatments such as oral Lamisil--which can be bad juju for the liver. Your points on study costs are well taken.
 
 
A study of lavender oil for hair growth (in mice). Quote from study: 
 
"Taken together, the results of this study show the marked hair growth-promoting effect of LO, as evidenced by morphological and histological observations."  LO--lavender oil
 
And peppermint oil (in mice)
 
Quotes from the study:
 
"We found that PEO (peppermint oil) remarkably promoted hair growth compared to SA and JO, even faster than MXD without significant change of body weight gain and food efficiency."
 
"In our study, we found that PEO induced very thick and long hair after 4-week topical application and promoted the elongation of hair follicles from the epidermis down to the subcutis in a vertical section (Fig. 3), showing in the stage of anagen III. Application of MXD caused similar results. We observed that this increase in hair follicle length was not associated with any loss of hair follicle architecture and that the increase in hair follicle length was associated with an increase in the length of the keratinized hair shaft."
 
"In conclusion, our experimental data suggest that 3% PEO facilitates hair growth by promoting the conservation of vascularization of hair dermal papilla, which may contribute to the induction of early anagen stage. In addition, PEO effectively stimulated hair growth in an animal model via several mechanisms and thus could be used as a therapeutic or preventive alternative medicine for hair loss in humans."
 
Seems like with an increasing number of oil-based treatments for hair growth (regrowth too?) that there might be a resurgence of the use of antimacassars in the home setting, buy stock in the appropriate areas now!  :-D
 
Peppermint oil and lavender oil smell not bad.
 

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 10 September 2017 - 05:41 PM.


#14 Ovidus

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 128 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Europe

Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:19 AM

Gentlemen,

The discussion really got derailed here and turned into a generalized debate about regrowing lost hair.

 

Simple question: If one assumes for a moment that the combination of nicotinamideand ribose is equally effective as nicotinamide riboside, what would be the ideal method of applying the mixture of nicotinamide + ribose onto the scalp. I have experimented a few times and both substances appear to be easily soluble in water. Would this (and applying the water based solution to the scalp) be a good method or can you think of a better method instead?

Thanks



#15 Oakman

  • Member
  • 1,166 posts
  • 1,516
  • Location:CO

Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:05 PM

Gentlemen,

The discussion really got derailed here and turned into a generalized debate about regrowing lost hair.

 

Simple question: If one assumes for a moment that the combination of nicotinamideandribose is equally effective as nicotinamide riboside, what would be the ideal method of applying the mixture of nicotinamide + ribose onto the scalp. I have experimented a few times and both substances appear to be easily soluble in water. Would this (and applying the water based solution to the scalp) be a good method or can you think of a better method instead?

Thanks

 

My 1st thought would be that there is a problem getting through and into the skin to any extent using just H2O. I would suggest DMAE and MSM, and not simply dissolved in water, but rather an aqueous medium that would allow it to stay in a liquid form on the scalp for some time to aid absorption. Perhaps some combination of Aloe Vera Juice along with other oils, extracts, and emulsifiers to provide additional beneficial effects.



#16 Harkijn

  • Guest
  • 717 posts
  • 208
  • Location:Amsterdam
  • NO

Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:13 PM

 

Simple question: If one assumes for a moment that the combination of nicotinamide and ribose is equally effective as nicotinamide riboside....

There is no rationale behind this assumption , not in oral use but probably also not in topical use. So why would anyone assume this for a moment and then embark on a trial of minimally 6 weeks?


  • Disagree x 1

#17 Advocatus Diaboli

  • Guest
  • 178 posts
  • 181
  • Location:Chronosynclastic Infundibulum ( floor Z/p^nZ )
  • NO

Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:32 PM

@Ovidus, the link that you give in post #1 doesn't mention "water" (from your post #1) as being a vehicle for the NR application, and it only mentions NR as a part of his "anti-aging base package". Mention is made on your cited page of: "The hair re-growth also continuous (sic), it's slow but steady".
 
On this page, however, he states that "I created a lotion with NR dissolved/mixed into it." and also "added some pterostibene to it". The complete composition of his "lotion" is not identified. Do you have a link where he states that water was used in his "lotion" ("lotion" from my cited page, not by your mention) as you imply in your post #1?
 
He further states, on the link I gave above, that he "rubbed it into the hairline area and on places that showed hair thinning/balding" He makes no mention on that page of having only "splashed it onto his scalp" as you indicate in post #1. Do you have a link where he says he splashed it on, rather than having rubbed it into the scalp?
 
 


#18 Advocatus Diaboli

  • Guest
  • 178 posts
  • 181
  • Location:Chronosynclastic Infundibulum ( floor Z/p^nZ )
  • NO

Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:38 PM

@Harkijn, assumptions aren't required to have rationales. Assumptions can be viewed as being presumptively axiomatic for the purpose of "gedankenexperiment", for example, which then may lead to actual experiment if the gedanken warrants (or not, even).

 

"To measure is to know"

 


Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 13 September 2017 - 04:27 PM.

  • Disagree x 1

#19 aconita

  • Guest
  • 1,389 posts
  • 276
  • Location:Italy
  • NO

Posted 14 September 2017 - 01:16 AM

Nicotinamide molecular weight is about 122Da, nicotinamide riboside is about 255Da, nicotinamide nucleotide is about 335Da, ribose is 150DA.

 

Under 500Da molecules are small enough to permeate freely the dermal barrier, therefore all the above will since are all well under 500DA.

 

Yes, topical nicotinamide in all its forms will reach the blood stream when topically applied, with exposure to all dermal layers in the process, of course.

 

For practical reasons applying water as topical isn't a great option, something not as runny might be nicer.

 

After solving the active in water at the desired concentration add 1% in weight of hyaluronic acid powder, preferably at 400-500KDa or less since it is able to cross the dermal barrier too and acts as a transporter (it seems in contradiction with the previously stated 500Da limit but HA makes for an exception to the rule since the molecule is very long and narrow therefore acting as a needle in despite of its relatively big size).

 

This yields a gel not too thick, easy and pleasant to use.

 

Or add granular lecithin (might be soy but preferably sunflower), nicotinamide and water in a blender, run for 2-3 minutes and get a liposomal cream which even if doesn't really keeps the liposomal state when topically applied still acts as very efficient transporter and penetration enhancer, texture can be adjusted with water/lecithin proportions to just ideal (for the sake of penetration avoid thick textures).

 

Lecithin by itself comes with its own arrays of beneficial effects, don't know how hair follicle like it but in general is nice stuff.

 

Adding good old DMSO to the above two preparations will enhance penetration, of course, if one is concerned about it (likely without any real reason).

 

MSM too should work as an enhancer but to a lesser extent.

 

To me seems the effects are tiny, maybe almost negligible and very slow to come by (we are talking about years here), nevertheless to have a go isn't a big deal if one wishes so.


  • Informative x 2

#20 osris

  • Guest
  • 273 posts
  • 13

Posted 22 May 2019 - 03:38 PM

Does Nicotinamide Riboside increase DHT which is a cause male pattern baldness like plain Nicotinamide does? See this article called “Best DHT Supplements”:
 
 
Niacinamide (also called Nicotinamide) is listed there as a supplement to increase DHT. 
 
If it does increase DHT, how can it also increase hair growth?
 

Edited by osris, 22 May 2019 - 03:40 PM.

  • Good Point x 3

#21 Mike1024

  • Guest
  • 13 posts
  • 3
  • Location:phoenix
  • NO

Posted 23 May 2019 - 06:01 PM

 

Does Nicotinamide Riboside increase DHT which is a cause male pattern baldness like plain Nicotinamide does? See this article called “Best DHT Supplements”:
 
 
Niacinamide (also called Nicotinamide) is listed there as a supplement to increase DHT. 
 
If it does increase DHT, how can it also increase hair growth?

 

 

The "athleticmuscle.net" site does not seem very reliable. Do you know of any research linking Niacinamide to DHT?



#22 Quattro64

  • Guest
  • 18 posts
  • -2

Posted 10 November 2019 - 03:29 PM

All I know is I supplemented with Niagen for approx 6mths orally and it seemed to restart a lot of regrowth. When I went to by barber after on it for those months it was dramatic. I then switched to NAD+ when it became more economical since it was reported to be better for longevity. The thinning returned to normal after making this switch?? After reading a bit it seems that any longevity benefit from Niagen is localized in the liver. So I think it is critical for liver rejuvenation, also the liver is crucial for metabolism. The artical that the OP mentioned discussed that that person also believed that metabolism plays a role in hair thinning.

 

So to make up some sort of scalp topical makes tremendous sense to me, as does taking both supplements orally for longevity. FOR HAIR THINNING! I don't believe this would help those with MPB. Niagen is more economical than NAD+ so I would use this for a topical mix. I'd also consider Black Seed Oil, Peppermint Oil, Bag Balm, Grapeseed Oil(as carrier oil), a few drops of Tea Tree Oil. Rosemary Oil, Castor Oil, Jojoba, Argan oil, Vitamin C. Yes and LLLT lasers do seem to work also, though which one to buy?







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: hair

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users