60 replies to this topic

[Stefanovic]

I'm 31 and since the age of 16-17 I have a receding hairline. It hasnt really gotten worse over the years. Let's say I have the Mickey Mouse look and about 20 square centimeters on both sites. I tried minoxidil 5 percent and it didnt change a lot.


I cannot choose the look I want and I want to change that. I might consider a hair transplant. I won't need that many grafts but I want to know if there are any other options out there ( dont wanna take finasteride)



I've also gone very grey in a couple of months time. Yes, I've been in stressy situations and my diet hasnt been great but near my temples it's really visible. There are many vitamins claiming to work for it but I don't wanna take a 15 supplements regimen not knowing what has exactly worked if it would work.

Any help for my 2 problems?

[nowayout]

Minoxidil may help and is usually free of side effects (doesn't do anything hormonal). Ketoconazole shampoo may also help a bit. However, they won't make any difference in areas where you have had recession for as long as you have.

For graying, there is nothing besides dyeing your hair. Believe me, I have looked into everything.

[Stefanovic]

Ok, that will probably be a HT early next yr.

For graying, it really happened in a couple of months time, not just a few strands, but more than 50 percent. That must indicate something else. No one in my family goes gray that young.
Some time ago I've read that researchers are close to developping the ultimate anti grey pill.

[nowayout]

I think that anti-grey pill story was a hoax. It was discussed on here before and AFAICR that was the conclusion.

If you suddenly went grey due to a lot of stress, there is a chance it will reverse once you remove the stress, but I don't think there is any supplement for this apart from maybe concentrating on a healthy diet and taking a multivitamin.

Actually, there is some literature on PABA in large doses possibly helping for early graying. I don't know how effective it is, or how safe at those doses. It is also used for pigmentation disorders such as vitiligo. It might be worth looking also into other medications used for vitiligo.

If you want to feel better about it, grey hairs don't fall out in the sense of balding, at least not in my experience. I wish my hairline had gone grey before it had time to recede.

Edited by nowayout, 30 November 2013 - 08:33 PM.

[Stefanovic]

Thanks a lot. Any idea what vitiligo supplements are useful? Tried melanotan but it only seems to darken the non greying hairs.

[Ames]

Shave it.

Trust me.

I know it's scary to do at first, but you'll be so much happier in the long run. No more worrying about grayness nor your hairline. You've been agonizing over this for over a decade now. Time to give your mind a rest. Women are fine with it if you're fine with it.

Dying sucks to do, to keep up with, and looks like shit unless you get really good at it and keep up with it. A lot of colors look unantural, unless you have black hair.

Constantly trying to improve the appearance of your hairline through haircuts and hairstyles will look obvious and bad after a while, but you won't realize it because you've been doing it for so long. You'll just walk around looking insecure.

Hair transplants come with scars that will prevent you from wanting to shave your head in the future, which is really your best option. If the transpalnt is successful, but you keep going bald, there is a real chance of running of of donor hair. At that point, your transplant is obvious and will make you look older anyway. Some guys are cool with the young man's frontal hairline with a balding crown, but I'm not.

Until they can reliably clone hair for unlimited donor hair, shaving is your best option.

Edited by golgi1, 05 December 2013 - 02:06 AM.

[Stefanovic]

I look awful with my head shaved.

[Stefanovic]

PS this doesnt really seem to be haox: http://www.prnewswir...-188832861.html

[FrogWarrior]

For graying, I read that supplements which boost catalase levels reverse it. For balding, theres also finasteride.

[Stefanovic]

I think a hair transplant is safer than taking finasteride especially when the hairline is about the same as 15 yrs ago.

I ordered these supplements. Looks like a good combo:

http://www.vitalabs....-Gray-Away.aspx

[niner]

PS this doesnt really seem to be haox: http://www.prnewswir...-188832861.html

PRNewswire is just a press report written by the company. I looked at the ingredients, and it's just some vitamins, minerals, herbs and 5000 iu of catalase. That's not likely to be orally active, as large proteins like that are usually shredded in the stomach.

[Stefanovic]

I dont do it for the catalase but because it's a great combo in general. As they graying happened quickly, I think a good vitamin and mineral combination could be beneficial.

[nowayout]

You could also just touch it up with some dye, especially if you have dark hair.

Unfortunately I became allergic to hair dyes recently. It sucks, because touching up my scruff used to take 10 years off my apparent age. I look horrible shaved, to the point where I am thinking of just biting the bullet, taking a cartload of antihistamines, and dyeing it again. Perhaps the allergy can be reversed with continued exposure.

[Stefanovic]

Hair dye? That's a magical solution. I had never heard about it. Get real. We're not on this forum to share things we already know but to offer other and better solutions.

[nowayout]

Hair dye? That's a magical solution. I had never heard about it. Get real. We're not on this forum to share things we already know but to offer other and better solutions.

Then offer me a solution to my allergy to hair dye instead of being such a jerk.

Edited by nowayout, 17 December 2013 - 03:57 PM.

[FrogWarrior]

I think a hair transplant is safer than taking finasteride especially when the hairline is about the same as 15 yrs ago.

I ordered these supplements. Looks like a good combo:

http://www.vitalabs....-Gray-Away.aspx

Maybe, but I read that finasteride actually promotes regrowth of head hair because elevated DHT levels are what stopped it in the first place. Why not do both? Also, some of the enzymes responsible for hair growth and preventing graying (namely catalase) use copper, zinc and selenium so it might be a good idea to take supplements for those elements. Selenium is expensive unfortunately (here at least), but the other 2 are cheap. There are 3 different types of catalase which work in different areas of the body, inside the mitochondria, inside the cytoplasm and in extracellular fluid, they all use different metals, I can't remember which is which but one of them uses zinc and copper, another one uses manganese, and I can't remember which the other one uses, maybe selenium.

[nowayout]

I think a hair transplant is safer than taking finasteride especially when the hairline is about the same as 15 yrs ago.

I ordered these supplements. Looks like a good combo:

http://www.vitalabs....-Gray-Away.aspx

Maybe, but I read that finasteride actually promotes regrowth of head hair because elevated DHT levels are what stopped it in the first place. Why not do both? Also, some of the enzymes responsible for hair growth and preventing graying (namely catalase) use copper, zinc and selenium so it might be a good idea to take supplements for those elements. Selenium is expensive unfortunately (here at least), but the other 2 are cheap. There are 3 different types of catalase which work in different areas of the body, inside the mitochondria, inside the cytoplasm and in extracellular fluid, they all use different metals, I can't remember which is which but one of them uses zinc and copper, another one uses manganese, and I can't remember which the other one uses, maybe selenium.

Except any excess copper beyond a minimum is seen as a big risk factor for age-related diseases. See some of the other threads here.

[Stefanovic]

I've known many people having used finasteride and they all had problems with erections. Officially less than 10 percent have those problems, but irl there are so many more.

I've ordered minoxidil, those supplements and a dermaroller. I'll see what happens.

[Heyman]

I've known many people having used finasteride and they all had problems with erections. Officially less than 10 percent have those problems, but irl there are so many more.

I've ordered minoxidil, those supplements and a dermaroller. I'll see what happens.

I've used finasteride and don't have any sides at all. Don't let people scare you. If I remember correctly there is a study that has shown about 50% of young men not taking anything have erectile problems. It just happens to anyone, happened to me before I tried fin and isn't really happening anymore now. Of course people that take pills will attribute a condition (that happens DAMN often anyway) to whatever medication they take. There is also a study showing that there is a strong placebo effect with finasteride and erectile function. If you want I can show you some research I've looked at, as I researched it quite a bit.

[aconita]

Receding hairs because of hormones is tricky to fight, improving estrogen is basically the only way but do you really want to do it?

After all I don't think so, too many implications in doing it.

Anyway if you really don't mind...give pueraria mirifica a try (beware to not grow too much boobs:D).

If recededing or loss of hairs is due to other factors (alopecia) emu oil, dermaroller, ginkgo biloba, Lugol's solution or SSKI, maybe even retinol, will help in wakening the dormient hair follicles, don't expect miracles but I seriously doubt any drug will give better results, side effects probably many or at least a risk does exist.

At 52 I did experienced some improvement in my receding front line with topical emu oil daily applications,nothing dramatic but definitely some new growth where before nothing was left...but beware it takes time (6-12 months) to notice any effects,

[nowayout]

Wjy would emu oil be expected to make a difference? Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds a lot like the proverbial snake oil

[aconita]

Probably because of some fatty acids or/and other compounds in it, sincerely I don't know exactly why...(does anybody know why retinol does work?).

It looks like there is only one study about hair growth induced by emu oil, applied on shaved mouses increases the growing rate of the fur.

Not much and doesn't says much about performance on human hairs...I know, in fact the study itself is worth little or nothing..

But I gave it a try anyway because it is ridiculously cheap, is good for the skin and at worst can't cause any side effects: it worked!

As I mentioned it takes time and patience but it worked even if receding hair line wasn't a big concern to me...I don't know why, I don't know how...but it definitely worked, therefore I thought sharing the info may help somebody else who is really bothered by the issue.

As Mao once said: "I don't care if the cat is white or black, what really matters is it catches mouses".

[Stefanovic]

For me personally a hair transplant is less drastic than taking finasteride.

I want to get back to graying as well. I'm planning on having an eyelash transplant next year and most of the time they use hair from the back of the scalp. In my family they graying people being in their 50's have gray hair on the sides and top of their head but not much on the back of their head. I'm almost 32 and I expect that there will be a cure for graying when I'll be 50.
I just want the hair transplanted to my eyelids not ( or not much) to be prone to graying. So I guess the back of your head is less likely to turn gray before you're very old.

[Heyman]

Are there many bald people in your family? If you continue losing hair, just a hair transplant might not do the trick if you continue losing after that. If you don't, then its obviously fine. Are you beyond the point of a "mature" hairline? If I were you I'd go to a good dermatologicst and ask him what he expects will happen in the next few years. Minoxidil does not stop hair loss, it just offsets it by a few years unfortunately. I agree that nothing will grow back hair that is long gone atm. Finasteride will stop further loss, maybe nizoral 2% does the same so I'd at least use the latter.

[Stefanovic]

I never measured it before, but I know I didnt have a straight hairline when I was 16. It's about a good 10 - 12 square centimeters on both sides.
My father is 60 and he started balding at 40. His father is 90 and he still has a full head of hair.
My mother has two brothers around the age of 60 and they both have a full head of hair. Her father passed away in his seventies with a full head of hair.
The greying also started at a much later age for all family members, never before 40.

PS the combo dermaroller and minoxidil seems to be promising and scientifically proven.

Edited by Stefanovic, 22 December 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[Heyman]

PS the combo dermaroller and minoxidil seems to be promising and scientifically proven.

Yes it looks promising but with minoxidil itself: It seems to not work permanently. I'll explain:

Finasteride (and maybe Nizoral Shampoo) reduce DHT in the scalp. Which is one trigger in the chain to male pattern baldness. This means if you respond to either of these, your hair loss will stop for at least 10 years +, likely forever but few people tested it for longer.

Minoxidil is a growth stimulant. It stimulates hair growth but does nothing against the true cause of male pattern baldness.

Meaning: Someone who uses finasteride will have increased hair counts after a year and will maintain that. Someone who uses Minoxidil will have increased hair count after a year as he stimulated more hair in general. Hair loss will continue though, he just increased the baseline of the amount of hair he had. Meaning his hair count first goes up (as he started minox) and then goes down again over time (as hair loss progresses), after 2-5 years he will probably be at baseline again and then he will continue with his hair loss, just offset by a few years.

I'm just saying this because I made an informed decision and did a lot of research. As soon as you stop minox, your lose the hair you gained. Which is the same with finasteride, but just note that you'll have to apply some lotion once daily to your scalp for as long as you wish to keep your hair. Taking a pill to me seems easier.

Yes you got more possibility of side-effects with finasteride. But its also more future-proof. There are currently interesting new solutions researched (like CB 03 01) that may be released in the future. Like minox, you can apply it topically but they work by the same mechanism that fin works, wihout possible sides. Maybe in a shampoo, every second day when you shower and thats it. These new treatments use mostly the same mechanism (DHT inhibition or inhibition of inflammation) that fin uses meaning you can then change from fin to these new treatments. The question is can you switch minox for these new treatments or do you then need to take both? As both use different mechanisms, the minox-stimulated hair might vanish if you stop it even if you use a treatment that stops hair loss by other mechanisms.

If you truly suspect that your hair loss has stopped now, theres no reason to not do a hair transplant if you're scared of fin side effects apart from the money. I can only tell you what I think is useful, the choice is yours. I'd try to delve a bit into the research, to me research seems to be more reliable compared to anecdotal scare-stories in the internet. My plan is to stop fin as soon as a new treatment is available, I suspect this will be at least 2-5 years. I imagine that if I were to use minox instead, I can't ever stop minox, I'd need to take two different treatments then forever.

I was also scared about minox causing a lack of collagen. This seems to be one of the possible mechanisms, as this allows more nutrients to reach your hair follices. But may also increase wrinkles etc...

Don't make hasty decisions, take a few weeks and try to inform yourself.

Edited by Heyman, 22 December 2013 - 07:58 PM.

[Stefanovic]

The loss of collagen doesnt sound appealing to me. Is that real because I've known a couple of people having used minoxidil without any other signs of aging.

The local DHT blockers seem interesting but finasteride is something I won't even consider. I've known too many people having had sides from it and as I already have some gynaecomastia genes in me, it doesnt seem like a solution to me.

Is nizoral the best way to go now or does that other stuff you mention also proved to work?

[Heyman]

The loss of collagen doesnt sound appealing to me. Is that real because I've known a couple of people having used minoxidil without any other signs of aging.

Theres a study on it, if you want I can find it. As far as I remember it certainly suggested that minoxidil works by decreasing collagen production. Contrary to the anecdotal evidence about finasteride sides that happen far more often in the internet compared to controlled settings, there seems to be real evidence for the collagen lowering effect of minox. So that would be my major concern. Finasteride is unlikely to affect collagen except maybe in the scalp (associated with DHT type II, DHT type I found in the skin outside of the scalp is not reduced by fin).

The local DHT blockers seem interesting but finasteride is something I won't even consider. I've known too many people having had sides from it and as I already have some gynaecomastia genes in me, it doesnt seem like a solution to me.

Its fine, I can understand your fear. All I can tell you is to look and try to understand the studies (e.g. this or this etc..) rather then anecdotal evidence. Most medication-induced gyno does go away once medication is stopped. But it seems reasonable to not want to experience fin side effects, so I won't advertise it here, I can certainly understand your opinion. If you don't like fin or know enough people that suffered I won't tell you to take it, its your choice alone. Taking nothing has the side effect of maybe losing your hair. Taking minox has side effects. Taking nizoral may have the side effect of it not working good enough to keep your hair. Fin may have side effects. Which side-effects you chose is your choice.

Is nizoral the best way to go now or does that other stuff you mention also proved to work?

As far as I know, I only mentioned nizoral, fin and minox. All three are proven to work. I made a thread in another forum about nizoral where I showed a lot of evidence about nizoral, you might be interested in that:

http://www.hairlosst...ugh-to-maintain

Keep in mind some studies are sponosored by the guys who made nizoral shampoo.

Edited by Heyman, 22 December 2013 - 10:50 PM.

[Stefanovic]

Thank you very much!

I had already ordered the minoxidil and I don't wanna get wrinkled. Reviews seem to be mixed, users having used minoxidil for many years not experiencing anything, the question is: how minor is the decrease in collagen and are there any supplements ( MSM crosses my mind) being able to increase collagen so that in the end it's still a positive story on both skin and hair?

Did you read any of the studies regarding the reversal of gray hair. I have much more faith in the Bradford University stuff than in the L'oreal studies ( I contacted them and they've been very arrogant in their replies)

[Heyman]

I had already ordered the minoxidil and I don't wanna get wrinkled. Reviews seem to be mixed, users having used minoxidil for many years not experiencing anything, the question is: how minor is the decrease in collagen and are there any supplements ( MSM crosses my mind) being able to increase collagen so that in the end it's still a positive story on both skin and hair?

I'm not an expert on this topic, so I don't know if the effect happens in humans at all (and not just in vitro), how strong the effect is etc... All I know is there are studies showing a decrease of collagen under certain (in vitro) conditions. So I'd be cautious at least. Sorry if I got this across the wrong way in my last posts. I'm taking a vitamin C E Ferulic serum as that seems to be great to stop premature skin aging. This also increases collagen synthesis by I think a large amount (80% or sth like that). This may help, if a negative effect occurs.

As far as I know, minox will increase hair density but likely won't get your bald spot back. Nothing except a hair transplant seems to do that, I'm not sure if dermarolling + minox will, may help some people and others not. As your problem is not hair density, minox in my opinion won't do too much good for you, it won't prevent hair loss in the long run nor will it help you if your only problem is bald spots on the sides.

Did you read any of the studies regarding the reversal of gray hair. I have much more faith in the Bradford University stuff than in the L'oreal studies ( I contacted them and they've been very arrogant in their replies)

Nope, sorry. Did not read into this at all, as I don't have that issue.

Lets recap: Fin would likely not grow back your bald spots but would stop further loss at least. But you don't want to risk sides, so no fin for you. Minox will not grow back your bald spots either and not stop further loss in the long run, so you won't gain anything but still have some risk of side-effects. So no minox either IMO. Nizoral 2% will not grow back bald spots but may help you to stop hair loss (maybe even long term) with likely no side-effects. I mean you need some shampoo to shower anyway. If nothing else, I'd at least take that, seems to have the best risk / benefit ratio if you only chose 1.

Edited by Heyman, 22 December 2013 - 11:38 PM.