QuestforLife... I very much appreciate your reply...
I agree HighDesertWizard that the Horvath Clock and various telomere study findings do not seem to fit well. I've made some suggestions for why this might be up thread, but the truth is no one has yet resolved this with actual data.
The Epel / Blackburn study teams must have a dozen studies under their belts showing an inverse correlation between telomere length and aging. And Blasco's work does the same. How many apparently contrasting studies like this one by Horvath are there?
When will our objective as a Movement become more focused on ensuring that our beliefs and practices include All the Evidence that exists and not just the newest, new shiny study object to appear?
One thing to bear in mind, Horvath has recently published a newer methylation clock PhenoAge, which is designed to fit with mortality rather than chronological age (most of the epigenetic markers are at different sites), and this clock correlates weakly (but in the right direction) with leukocyte telomere length (which itself only has a tenuous connection to body-wide aging, due to the very rapid turnover of immune cells in the blood).
www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/05/276162
Yes. This is great. As our lifespans increase, we'll want to know how much time we have left. Knowing how old we are by some old measure won't be of much use. I was a little early here, but I did note the change in the measurement object. Someday, hopefully, we will need some algorithms to calculate average projected lifespan remaining...
So we may find that it is confounding factors that are confusing greater chronological age with longer telomeres (in leukocytes). Time will tell.
Two interesting phrases... We "may find confounding variables" and "Time will tell"?
I'm curious... How exactly will time tell? I can think of a few different things you might mean... Of course, I have an opinion too...
1... Thomas Kuhn pointed out, in his now classic book, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, that older thought leaders had to retire or die off before new paradigms that better fit the most recent evidence could emerge and establish knowledge advance. So... perhaps, you were politely suggesting we needed our current batch of Thought Leaders to depart the scene before we can make progress... And that will take time....
Or perhaps you were suggesting we need 2) a lot more scientific study data to make major advances or 3) more time to process and integrate the knowledge that already exists but isn't clearly placed on our puzzle table?
---------------
I wonder... Despite our Movement's Thought Leaders not discussing it...
Suppose there existed an enormous body of evidence for an independent variable related to both Telomere Length and Epigenetic Methylation showing profound Survival Probability Benefit or the opposite, depending on how it got expressed or not... Might that be an important confounding variable we should take a look at? Even in this forum thread?
Put more strongly... Suppose this independent variable had also been shown in at least a few studies to be Causally Related to both Telomerase Expression and unhealthy Methylation outcomes...
And suppose this independent variable was in plain sight, itself, the subject of hundreds of studies by hundreds of scientists over decades...
And suppose this independent variable had been shown, not only to be related to the Telomerase/Telomere Length nexus of issues and Epigenetic Methylation, but also to almost all the other independent variables associated with aging that are often discussed, here, at Longecity... In short, not only would this variable be a Confounding Variable in the discussion of Telomerase/Telomeres/Methylation, it would also be a confounding variable for most/all the other variables associated with aging...
And suppose... Evolution had established a specific and complex Mechanism within us to specifically target that independent variable in a way shown in studies to increase average lifespan if we triggered in just the right way at just the right intervals...
<Sigh> Wouldn't it be great if we had that problem?
Edited by HighDesertWizard, 22 May 2018 - 06:11 AM.