8 replies to this topic

[Grandmaster]

Since february i have been dosing guarana instead of drinking coffee and i cut out totally caffeine from any other sources 6 months ago(caffeine pils, coffee and energy drinks gave me anxiety and mood swings - probably slight histamine intolerance takes part in it).

I noticed interesting thing: i usally dose guarana(250-500mg, so 55-110 mg of caffeine from guarana) with magnesimum citrate/chlorate and vitamin C. With or without those supplements it gives me energy boost but sometimes with slight anxiety - in any case, even if i dose it in the afternoon/morning and feel bad during the morning/afternoon i get a amazing mood lift and energy boost around 9-10pm that lasts to even 2-3am.

Im sure thats the guarana because i went 3 days guarana free and dosed only original russian phenotropil - felt good but around 10pm i started to feel extremely tired and foggy absolutely without that "10 pm boost". I understand that guarana works for a longer time and procognitive effects may accumulate at 10pm but why is it so extreme and doesnt give me such wonderful effects for first few hours after dosing(i sometimes feel extremely anxious and foggy during the day)?

 

Edited by Grandmaster, 04 May 2018 - 10:55 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Guarana contains a number of active substances with different half lives and potential interactions, including epicatechin, which is known to stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis.

[Grandmaster]

Guarana contains a number of active substances with different half lives and potential interactions, including epicatechin, which is known to stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis.

So epicatechin may cause this delayed procognive effect? Its often after 6-7 hours of last guarana dosage. I must admit i use guarana tablets with standarised extract for 110 caffeine in each tablet. Caffeine also had similar effects when drunk energy drinks over 0,5 year ago.

[Turnbuckle]

Here's an even stranger effect -- https://www.erowid.o...xp.php?ID=10188

[Grandmaster]

Here's an even stranger effect -- https://www.erowid.o...xp.php?ID=10188

Yes indeed. How can i get those effects i mentioned(cognitive and mood boost at 10pm) all the time? Why caffeine with guarana may work in that way? Dosing only one of those acitve substances alone?

[Grandmaster]

Refersh, still looking for a solution.

Edited by Grandmaster, 07 May 2018 - 11:20 PM.

[MankindRising]

Guarana has this mellow like feeling to me aswell, its pro-social (feels very very different than pure cafeine or caffee, like a 180 degree flip).

Anyhow I thought id share this for OP and those interested as I thought it is of relevance to its potential effect on mood, Google the following studies:

 

Bioavailability of catechins from guaraná (Paullinia cupana) and its effect on antioxidant enzymes and other oxidative stress markers in healthy human subjects.

 

"Plasma catechin (0.38 ± 0.12 and 0.44 ± 0.18 nmol mL(-1)), epicatechin (0.59 ± 0.18 and 0.64 ± 0.25 nmol mL(-1)) and their methylated metabolites were observed at 1 h post-dose but were almost negligible after overnight fasting."

 

To be precise if you look inside the study (ski-hut to gain access): (+)-Catechin and (-)-Epicatechin

 

 

Flavonoids as Opioid Receptor Ligands: Identification and Preliminary Structure–Activity Relationships (cant post the link yet as trial member)

 

 

The study compares ligand binding and their effects on rat behavior with tons of ligands, including well known kappa antagonists, mu agonists and mu antagonists.

 

Now I quote from the study:

 

(+ )-Catechin (12) was inactive as an antagonist at the μ opioid receptor but was active at the δ opioid receptor (Ke = 1180 nM). In contrast, 12 had good antagonist activity at the κ opioid receptor with a Ke of 320 nM.

 

Furthermore, (+ )-epicatechin (15) was found to have the same activity at μ receptors (Ke = 3020 nM vs Ke = 2400 nM), κ receptors (Ke = 5810 nM vs Ke = 3600 nM), and δ receptors (Ke = 2170 nM vs Ke = 1770 nM) compared to 13. However, 15 is more potent at μreceptors (Ke = 3020 nM vs Ke > 10 000 nM) and less potent at κ receptors (Ke = 5810 nM vs Ke = 320 nM) than 12.

 

 

Basically backing up guarana having anti-anheonic qualities (mu agonism, kappa antagonism).

 

Back to OP, have you tried amentoflavone (present in ginkgo and st johns wort), afaik this is a relatively good kappa antagonists allthough there seem to be some problems with bioavailability

[Grandmaster]

 

Guarana has this mellow like feeling to me aswell, its pro-social (feels very very different than pure cafeine or caffee, like a 180 degree flip).

Anyhow I thought id share this for OP and those interested as I thought it is of relevance to its potential effect on mood, Google the following studies:

 

Bioavailability of catechins from guaraná (Paullinia cupana) and its effect on antioxidant enzymes and other oxidative stress markers in healthy human subjects.

 

"Plasma catechin (0.38 ± 0.12 and 0.44 ± 0.18 nmol mL(-1)), epicatechin (0.59 ± 0.18 and 0.64 ± 0.25 nmol mL(-1)) and their methylated metabolites were observed at 1 h post-dose but were almost negligible after overnight fasting."

 

To be precise if you look inside the study (ski-hut to gain access): (+)-Catechin and (-)-Epicatechin

 

 

Flavonoids as Opioid Receptor Ligands: Identification and Preliminary Structure–Activity Relationships (cant post the link yet as trial member)

 

 

The study compares ligand binding and their effects on rat behavior with tons of ligands, including well known kappa antagonists, mu agonists and mu antagonists.

 

Now I quote from the study:

 

(+ )-Catechin (12) was inactive as an antagonist at the μ opioid receptor but was active at the δ opioid receptor (Ke = 1180 nM). In contrast, 12 had good antagonist activity at the κ opioid receptor with a Ke of 320 nM.

 

Furthermore, (+ )-epicatechin (15) was found to have the same activity at μ receptors (Ke = 3020 nM vs Ke = 2400 nM), κ receptors (Ke = 5810 nM vs Ke = 3600 nM), and δ receptors (Ke = 2170 nM vs Ke = 1770 nM) compared to 13. However, 15 is more potent at μreceptors (Ke = 3020 nM vs Ke > 10 000 nM) and less potent at κ receptors (Ke = 5810 nM vs Ke = 320 nM) than 12.

 

 

Basically backing up guarana having anti-anheonic qualities (mu agonism, kappa antagonism).

 

Back to OP, have you tried amentoflavone (present in ginkgo and st johns wort), afaik this is a relatively good kappa antagonists allthough there seem to be some problems with bioavailability

 

 

Thats a great reply, thanks for quoting the stuied its very infromative. I was using st johns wort for a few months in 2018 but it lost its mood boosting effects and started to make me feel confsued so i not dose it anymore since few months. I tried ginkgo long time ago but it seemed to not do much, i didnt feel any procognitive effects. Maybe i should try it again.

[Psy]

Mechanisms involved in anti-aging effects of guarana (Paullinia cupana) in Caenorhabditis elegans

http://www.scielo.br...nrm=iso&tlng=en