• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

natural alternative for lipitor (lowering cholesterol)

lipitor cholesterol

  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 hesa

  • Guest
  • 9 posts
  • 3
  • Location:room 104

Posted 12 May 2018 - 08:58 PM


I'm 67 years old woman
152lbs and 5'2". i use recumbent exercise bike for 20 minutes a day (10min twice a day).
recently i had a cataract surgery.
my total cholesterol is 240-270 but i don't remember the other specifics.
doctor says i should take baby aspirin, but i don't take it all the time, not sure if i should take it or not.

i have been on lipitor for about 5 years. recently i read about its side effects, so I'm thinking of switching to something natural with fewer side effects.
do you have any suggestions and in what dosages?

also i think i will take co-q10 since i read that lipitor depletes your body from it. but i don't know at what dosage and which form (ubiquinol or ubiquinone)

 

thank you.


  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 1
  • Informative x 1

#2 Dorian Grey

  • Guest
  • 857 posts
  • 180
  • Location:kalifornia

Posted 13 May 2018 - 07:32 AM

Hi hesa, & if your cholesterol is 240-270 while on Lipitor and you're not having any noticeable side effects, you might consider not tampering with what is working well.  

 

I would resist any attempt by your doc to increase dosage or switch to more aggressive therapy to lower cholesterol further, but you really don't want your cholesterol to go much higher than this.  Some doctors tend to over-treat, and push cholesterol down below 200, but this would greatly increase your risk of side effects, with little statistical benefit to you.  

 

There are alternative therapies in the supplement world, but these have their own side effect issues and may not be as effective at handling difficult levels of cholesterol, which you seem to have.  

 

Adding some co-q10 might certainly be wise, but I'm really not well read on which form is best.  Hopefully someone else can help with this.  

 

A daily baby aspirin is most likely good advice once we're in our late 60's and beyond.  Heart attack and stroke become far more common at these ages, and this is something you probably want to minimize risk for.  

 

Please research any changes you might consider making carefully.  If you're doing well on your current therapy, I'd be tempted to leave well enough alone.  


  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 1
  • Ill informed x 1
  • Good Point x 1
  • Agree x 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 hesa

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 9 posts
  • 3
  • Location:room 104

Posted 14 May 2018 - 05:51 PM

hi

i checked my papers and it says 221 for cholesterol and 82 for triglycerides.

and for the most part i really don't take my pills all the time. but before these test results (221 for cholesterol and 82 for triglycerides) i was taking  lipitor 20mg per day for about 3 uninterrupted weeks, before those 3 weeks i took nothing for a while.



#4 hesa

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 9 posts
  • 3
  • Location:room 104

Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:02 PM

since i can't edit my first post, i just want to repeat what i said again

 

my test results are 221 for cholesterol and 82 for triglycerides

before these test results i was taking  lipitor 20mg per day for about 3 uninterrupted weeks, before those 3 weeks i took nothing for a while.

 

also i have osteoarthritis & metatarsalgia, which doctors couldn't help to reduce the pain. the doctor proscribed glucosamine 500mg a day. knee pain is reduced a bit, but awful pain at the ball of the foot still going for 3 years now, every day, sometimes it's a bit reduced when i take a walk. i'm thinking maybe the lipitor caused it.



#5 Turnbuckle

  • Member
  • 3,154 posts
  • 1,222
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:28 PM

 

also i have osteoarthritis & metatarsalgia, which doctors couldn't help to reduce the pain. the doctor proscribed glucosamine 500mg a day. knee pain is reduced a bit, but awful pain at the ball of the foot still going for 3 years now, every day, sometimes it's a bit reduced when i take a walk. i'm thinking maybe the lipitor caused it.

 

 

In women of your age who don't smoke and with systolic pressure below 140, higher cholesterol is associated with lower risk of CVD and death from all causes. And the foot pain could be from statins. My mother was prescribed statins by one of the voodoo practitioners who pass for doctors these days, and it almost crippled her.

 

For CVD risk factors, see Figs. 1-4 of this paper, where your cholesterol is 5.7 mmol/l.

 

(For total cholesterol, 1 mmol/l  = 38.67 mg/dl)


Edited by Turnbuckle, 14 May 2018 - 06:32 PM.

  • Informative x 1

#6 Dorian Grey

  • Guest
  • 857 posts
  • 180
  • Location:kalifornia

Posted 15 May 2018 - 04:44 AM

The 20mg dose of Lipitor is a very conservative dose (40mg is standard) & 221 for cholesterol and 82 for triglycerides are beautiful levels.  

 

Don't know if the Lipitor might be causing your foot pain.  Statins are typically associated with muscle and back pain.  

 

If you don't have a family history of members developing heart disease at a relatively early age, the Lipitor may be unnecessary, but with cholesterol in the 270 range (un-medicated), low dose Lipitor (like what you're on) might be helpful.  

 

It's a tough call.  Many doctors over-medicate and try to push cholesterol below 200.  This is overkill, & greatly increases the odds you'll experience unpleasant side effects.  Your doc has wisely chosen conservative therapy.  

 

Did you notice an increase in your foot pain/symptoms after starting the Lipitor?  Or was this a problem before?  



#7 Turnbuckle

  • Member
  • 3,154 posts
  • 1,222
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 15 May 2018 - 10:39 AM

 

 

If you don't have a family history of members developing heart disease at a relatively early age, the Lipitor may be unnecessary, but with cholesterol in the 270 range (un-medicated), low dose Lipitor (like what you're on) might be helpful.  

 

How would it be helpful? Can you show any proof of the benefit in this case?

 

Unfortunately, with the billions being made on the cholesterol scam (a $20 billion a year business, and growing rapidly), millions are being harmed by doctors who don't know anything but what the scammers (pharmaceutical reps) tell them. But the proof isn't there. A meta study (a study of studies) indicates that cholesterol is actually protective for people over 60.

 

Lack of an association or an inverse association between low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and mortality in the elderly: a systematic review

 

Conclusions High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years. This finding is inconsistent with the cholesterol hypothesis (ie, that cholesterol, particularly LDL-C, is inherently atherogenic). Since elderly people with high LDL-C live as long or longer than those with low LDL-C, our analysis provides reason to question the validity of the cholesterol hypothesis. Moreover, our study provides the rationale for a re-evaluation of guidelines recommending pharmacological reduction of LDL-C in the elderly as a component of cardiovascular disease prevention strategies.

http://bmjopen.bmj.c.../6/e010401.full

 

 

 

 

As for peripheral neuropathy from statins, the longer you stay on them, the more likely it will become irreversible.

 

The implications of statin induced peripheral neuropathy

There are reported cases of statin induced peripheral neuropathy, which in the initial stages can be reversible...But it needs to be asked, who would be liable if the patient was to ulcerate and progressed to amputation? The patient, medical practitioner, or podiatrist?

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3103035/

 

 


Edited by Turnbuckle, 15 May 2018 - 11:27 AM.

  • Good Point x 2

#8 Dorian Grey

  • Guest
  • 857 posts
  • 180
  • Location:kalifornia

Posted 16 May 2018 - 05:27 AM

Point taken Turnbuckle.  More on this here:

 

 

Just say NO to drugs!  


  • Informative x 2
  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 1
  • Cheerful x 1

#9 Daniel Cooper

  • Member
  • 763 posts
  • 110
  • Location:USA

Posted 16 May 2018 - 05:44 PM

If you really delve into the details of the Jupiter Study the case for the effectiveness for statins preventing CVD is much more tenuous than the drug companies or your average doctor makes it out to be.

 

It is however an established $13B industry so there is a lot of inertial behind it.

 

 

 

 

 



#10 Blueflash

  • Guest
  • 32 posts
  • 6
  • Location:La
  • NO

Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:52 PM

https://examine.com/...-cholesterol/  

 

These are listed by the level of incidence. 



#11 hesa

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 9 posts
  • 3
  • Location:room 104

Posted 28 June 2018 - 08:45 AM

https://examine.com/...-cholesterol/  

 

These are listed by the level of incidence. 

 

this list is hard to understand. when i click on it gives different answer. so if you click (Nigella sativa ) which has 3 bars out of four, the next page tells you (minor) and when you click Chromium which has 4 full bars it tells you "chromium does not appear to have a significant role in improving total cholesterol levels in type II diabetic subjects."
 



#12 hesa

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 9 posts
  • 3
  • Location:room 104

Posted 28 June 2018 - 08:48 AM

i found these two lists for cholesterol

http://publix.aisle7...sterol/vitamins
https://draxe.com/lo...naturally-fast/

 

and these two lists for osteoarthritis

http://publix.aisle7...hritis/vitamins
https://draxe.com/arthritis-diet/

 

can someone please help me pick from both lists?

 

also should i get ubiquinol or ubiquinone? and on what dosage?



#13 John250

  • Member
  • 714 posts
  • 67
  • Location:Temecula
  • NO

Posted 28 June 2018 - 05:26 PM

I remember about 10 years ago there was a Chinese red yeast rice extract available on eBay. I used it and it fixed my cholesterol levels better than anything else. I can’t remember the exact reasoning but I believe the FDA banned it. Probably because it would affect big Pharma. High healthy fats and stabilized rice bran has a pretty positive impact on cholesterol as well as numerous other supplements. I would also look into Chinese herbs. Some Chinese herbs have better benefits than western pharmacy drugs. Like DanShen for example has better impacts on blood disorders then many western medicines.

https://www.livestro...er-cholesterol/

Edited by John250, 28 June 2018 - 05:28 PM.

  • Agree x 1

#14 Turnbuckle

  • Member
  • 3,154 posts
  • 1,222
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:37 PM

I remember about 10 years ago there was a Chinese red yeast rice extract available on eBay. I used it and it fixed my cholesterol levels better than anything else. I can’t remember the exact reasoning but I believe the FDA banned it. Probably because it would affect big Pharma. High healthy fats and stabilized rice bran has a pretty positive impact on cholesterol as well as numerous other supplements. I would also look into Chinese herbs. Some Chinese herbs have better benefits than western pharmacy drugs. Like DanShen for example has better impacts on blood disorders then many western medicines.

https://www.livestro...er-cholesterol/

 

You can still buy it. It ran into trouble with the FDA as some samples contained lovastatin and the FDA is very protective of the profits of their clients in big pharma. Of secondary importance, some samples contained citrinin, which can cause kidney failure.



#15 John250

  • Member
  • 714 posts
  • 67
  • Location:Temecula
  • NO

Posted 28 June 2018 - 08:31 PM

You can still buy it. It ran into trouble with the FDA as some samples contained lovastatin and the FDA is very protective of the profits of their clients in big pharma. Of secondary importance, some samples contained citrinin, which can cause kidney failure.


What was it called again? Link?

Thanks

#16 Rocket

  • Guest
  • 618 posts
  • 93
  • Location:Usa
  • NO

Posted 29 June 2018 - 12:29 PM

I haven't all the posts here....

 

1. Taurine in high doses has a positive effect on lipids

2. Niacin (the real Niacin that causes flushing)

 

 

As a side note to the OP: 2 people at my company got their lipids checked when they had some nurses come through and offer physicals. The way they tested lipids was with a finger prick. Both guys came back around something 260 or 270. They couldn't believe it and were freaking out. They then went to a place that takes blood from a vein and they both came back under 200.

 

I don't know by what mechanism a finger prick test would yield such crazy results over a traditional blood sample with a arm vein....

 

Oh....

 

What is the state of your liver? What are your liver enzymes? The liver can (as I understand from reading pubmed) increase lipids. So get your liver checked out.

 


Edited by Rocket, 29 June 2018 - 12:34 PM.


#17 Benko

  • Member
  • 183 posts
  • 317
  • Location:US

Posted 29 June 2018 - 02:44 PM

 Some Chinese herbs have better benefits than western pharmacy drugs. Like DanShen for example has better impacts on blood disorders then many western medicines.

 

 

I'm a big fan of Chinese herbs and take Dan Shen (salvia miltiorrhizia,   PPAR GAMMA). 

 

Don't take it if you are on warfarin, or perhaps asprin. 

 

 



#18 John250

  • Member
  • 714 posts
  • 67
  • Location:Temecula
  • NO

Posted 29 June 2018 - 04:44 PM

I'm a big fan of Chinese herbs and take Dan Shen (salvia miltiorrhizia, PPAR GAMMA).

Don't take it if you are on warfarin, or perhaps asprin.


What’s interesting is Dan Shen blocks the effects of aspirin if it’s taken at the same time. They both have very short half-lives so it’s fine to use both with proper timing and of course making sure your blood isn’t too thin.

#19 Benko

  • Member
  • 183 posts
  • 317
  • Location:US

Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:20 PM

What’s interesting is Dan Shen blocks the effects of aspirin if it’s taken at the same time. They both have very short half-lives so it’s fine to use both with proper timing and of course making sure your blood isn’t too thin.

 

John,

 

Despite asprin's super short half life, it irreversibly effects COX enzyme in platelets with effects that last days. 


  • Good Point x 1

#20 John250

  • Member
  • 714 posts
  • 67
  • Location:Temecula
  • NO

Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:31 PM

John,

Despite asprin's super short half life, it irreversibly effects COX enzyme in platelets with effects that last days.


What would the negative of that be?

#21 Benko

  • Member
  • 183 posts
  • 317
  • Location:US

Posted 01 July 2018 - 05:43 PM

effects on blood clotting for days.


  • Agree x 2

#22 John250

  • Member
  • 714 posts
  • 67
  • Location:Temecula
  • NO

Posted 01 July 2018 - 07:58 PM

effects on blood clotting for days.


Well unfortunately with my testosterone replacement therapy my hemoglobin tends to be on the very high-end so that would be a good thing for me

#23 Leon93

  • Guest
  • 54 posts
  • 10
  • Location:Deventer

Posted 04 July 2018 - 11:04 PM

Benko, are you aware of willow bark being a COX-1 inhibitor as well (COX-2 inhibitor is desirable, cox-1 not)? I know aspirin is, and I thought willow bark was as well (or something else which was negative about willow bark), but I can´t remember it. Have to scan my papers for this. At least salicylate itself (active compound of aspirin/willow bark) apparently has no negative effects on cox-1 inhibition/blood clotting/thinning.


Edited by Leon93, 04 July 2018 - 11:04 PM.


#24 aribadabar

  • Guest
  • 546 posts
  • 202
  • Location:Canada

Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:41 PM

Well unfortunately with my testosterone replacement therapy my hemoglobin tends to be on the very high-end so that would be a good thing for me

 

You meant hematocrit?



#25 John250

  • Member
  • 714 posts
  • 67
  • Location:Temecula
  • NO

Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:49 PM

You meant hematocrit?

Same thing. Hematocrit #’s are basically Hemoglobin x 3.

Hemoglobin, hematocrit and rbc’s can all increase on TRT.

Edited by John250, 08 July 2018 - 05:50 PM.


#26 gamesguru

  • Guest
  • 2,488 posts
  • 362
  • Location:coffeelake.intel.int

Posted 08 July 2018 - 11:32 PM

oats, psyllium, asian mushrooms (all soluble fiber).  then you start to get into more obscure stuff like blueberries, broccoli, beans



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#27 Astroid

  • Member
  • 149 posts
  • 25
  • Location:Pensacola, FL
  • NO

Posted 09 July 2018 - 05:59 AM

Sam's Club sells Red Yeast Rice. 

 

Systemic Enzymes reduces Cholesterol.. They also reduce inflammation, in the arteries specifically.. some eat blood clots (I'm proof) & scar tissue, speeds up healing at an amazing rate.. and lowers blood pressure naturally.. as most come from plants. 

 

They also reduce pain. 

 

One can not take SE with blood thinners.. and does not need them. 

 

Here is some info i sent a friend about Neuropathy. 

 

Also.. I am told a Prolotherapy/Ozone Therapy M.D. that such injections stops foot pain. 

It works by causing inflammation.. that triggers the healing process. A lady told me in her office it worked for her. 

As you age.. your body heals slower. 

Lack of Systemic Enzymes and Nutrition is one reason.  

 

#1 for Neuropathy Pain 
Evening Primrose Oil & Alpha Lipoic Acid
 
 

Dr. Bernstein has recommended Evening Primrose Oil (EPO) and Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA) for quite some time. He recommends taking a form of R-ALA which contains Biotin and he particularly likes Insulow which is a specific formulation of R-AlA and biotin.
 
David_dns
Jun '13
According to Bernstein, evening primrose helps to increase the effectiveness of R-ALA. He recommends taking them together, and does so himself.
 
Randy5
Jun '13
Not sure about primrose oil, but can absolutely vouch for R-ala. I swear by it and am currently taking 800 units per day. 
 
* * 
OP, listen to this poster. GET METHYLCOBALAMIN. Lots of it. With it, take BENFOTIAMINE, at least 300 mg 2X/day. This combination will promote nerve healing. Mainstream MDs won't tell you about these (for the obvious reasons), but they actually work.
 
Those with peripheral neuropathy will benefit greatly from this regimen, as well. Stick with it. It's not an overnight fix, min 2-3 wks to experience improvement. But IT WILL let your body HEAL ITSELF.
 
Benfotiamine is a derivative of thiamin (Vitamin B-1)
 
* * *
PubMed - alpha-lipoic acid or evening primrose oil
 
 
US National Library of MedicineNational Institutes of Health
 
 
Abstract
Send to:
Metabolism. 2001 Aug;50(8):868-75.
The effects of treatment with alpha-lipoic acid or evening primrose oil on vascular hemostatic and lipid risk factors, blood flow, and peripheral nerve conduction in the streptozotocin-diabetic rat.
 
Ford I1, Cotter MA, Cameron NE, Greaves M.
Author information
 
Abstract
Oxidative stress and defective fatty acid metabolism in diabetes may lead to impaired nerve perfusion and contribute to the development of peripheral neuropathy. We studied the effects of 2-week treatments with evening primrose oil (EPO; n = 16) or the antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid (ALA; n = 16) on endoneurial blood flow, nerve conduction parameters, lipids, coagulation, and endothelial factors, in rats with streptozotocin-induced diabetes. Compared with their nondiabetic littermates, untreated diabetic rats had impaired sciatic motor and saphenous sensory nerve-conduction velocity (NCV; P <.001), reduced endoneurial blood flow (P <.001), and increased serum triglycerides (P <.01), cholesterol (P < 0.01), plasma factor VII (P <.0001), and von Willebrand factor (vWF; P <.0001). Plasma fibrinogen and serum high-density lipoprotein concentrations were not significantly different. Treatment with either ALA or EPO effectively corrected the deficits in NCV and endoneurial blood flow. ALA was associated with marked and statistically significant decreases in fibrinogen, factor VII, vWF, and triglycerides (P <.01, paired t tests before v after treatment). In contrast, EPO was associated with significant (P <.05) increases in fibrinogen, factor VII, vWF, triglycerides, and cholesterol and a significant decrease in high-density lipoprotein. Changes in levels of coagulation factors and lipids, qualitatively similar to those found with EPO, were obtained with a diet containing sunflower oil (to control for calorific and lipid content) or with a normal diet alone. Blood glucose and hematocrit levels were not significantly altered by treatments. These data suggest that although both ALA and EPO improve blood flow and nerve function, their actions on vascular factors differ. The marked effects of ALA in lowering lipid and hemostatic risk factors for cardiovascular disease indicate potential antithrombotic and antiatherosclerotic actions that could be of benefit in human diabetes and merit further study.
 
Copyright 2001 by W.B. Saunders Company
PMID: 
11474472 
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
* * 
 
6 Natural Solutions How nutritional supplementation can help
 
 
Neuropathy, or damage to the peripheral or autonomic nerves, is a common complication of diabetes. This not only causes losses in sensory and motor function, but can also lead to debilitating pain and even foot ulcers which may in turn lead to amputation. While conventional treatment is limited to good foot and nail hygiene, early detection of potential ulcers and strong painkillers such as antiepileptics and opioids, research has found that nutritional supplements are capable of even reversing nerve damage.
1. Treatment with Acetyl-l-Carnitine

One of those nutritional supplements that can bring true relief to diabetic neuropathy is acetyl-l-carnitine. In a study involving 333 patients diagnosed with neuropathy, participants were injected with either 1000mg of carnitine or placebo for 10 days, and then given either 2000mg of the supplement or a placebo for the remaining 355 days.

After 12 months, the treated patients showed a significant improvement in nerve conduction velocity, amplitude, and pain. The greatest changes in NCV were in the sensory sural nerve at +7 metres per second, the sensory ulnar nerve at +2.9m/second, and in the motor peroneal nerve at +2.7m/second on average. The greatest improvement in amplitude was also in the motor peroneal nerve at +2.2mV.

Related: Halt Diabetes with these 8 Natural Foods

2. Using Vitamin B12 for Diabetic Neuropathy

Additionally, mean pain scores were reduced from baseline by 39%. As this study was published in 2002, it’s surprising that the results aren’t common knowledge. Another study, this time comparing vitamin B12 injections to the drug nortriptyline in 50 patients, found that the vitamin injections were more effective than the drug.

Pain scores dropped 3.66 points on the visual analogue scale as opposed to 0.84 points; parasthesia decreased by 2.98 units instead of 1.06; and tingling scores dropped 3.48 units instead of 1.02. However, nerve conduction did not improve in either group, unlike in the patients of the previously mentioned acetyl-l-carnitine study.

3. Biotin to the Rescue

In addition, biotin in high doses may improve the symptoms of diabetic neuropathy, even within 4-8 weeks. This may be due to the correction of the biotin-dependent enzyme pyruvate carboxylase, which prevents the accumulation of pyruvate and/or the depletion of aspartate. Both of these play an important role in nervous system function.

4-6. Using Primsrose Oil, Alpha Lipoic Acid, and Capsaicin

2003 review examined the evidence behind the use of evening primrose oil, alpha lipoic acid, and capsaicin in the treatment of diabetic neuropathy. Trials on evening primrose oil showed significant improvements in nerve function measurements and overall symptom scores compared to placebo.

Arm muscle strength improved by 4.9 points versus a deterioration of 7.4 points; arm and leg sensation improved by 6.9 and 15 points instead of decreasing by 7.3 and 8.4 points respectively ,and median conduction velocity improved 1.4-2.4 points against placebo deterioration by up to 2 points. The most significant improvement was an increase in leg tendon reflex function by 17.7 points, while the placebo group saw a slight gain of 0.5 points.

Alpha lipoic acid, another reviewed supplement, is actually approved for the treatment of diabetic neuropathy in Germany, partly due to its antioxidant properties and ability to improve energy metabolism and neural glucose uptake. It can even recycle other antioxidants such as vitamins C and E!

Research evaluated described significant reductions in pain and disability scores, as well as improvements in nerve conduction velocities, particularly the sural sensory nerve with an improvement of 3-3.8 metres per second. As for capsaicin, there were significant benefits in regards to pain relief over the placebo, with far more treated patients reporting benefit.

Although capsaicin only provides symptomatic relief of pain, its benefits should not be overlooked as the pharmaceutical treatment of neuropathic pain involves drugs with potentially dangerous side effects, while capsaicin is safe.

Overall, it is clear that the false pessimism dispensed by pharmaceutical medicine is neither necessary nor wise.

 
 
 

 


  • Cheerful x 1





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: lipitor, cholesterol

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users