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All you need to know about steroids, HGH,etc..

steroids testosterone hgh peptides igf

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#211 John250

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 12:32 AM

Oh, I thought the daily testosterone was just as important, that's the one that swings a lot. Anyway in the study my prolactine dropped almost half from 1.2iu/L to 0.75iu/L (0.10 - 0.65iu/l is normal) and free testosterone jumped from 370pmol/L to 520pmol/L (unfortunately from the other blood tests I only have the daily results). I will let my full testosterone levels checked on my next blood test.

Sorry, I thought you meant testosterone therapy and cycling it with Clomid was the same thing. I was talking about cycling testosterone and Clomid and wondering/considering (if) that (is/was) a option without damaging the natural production after the cycle is done. Now I know what you meant, thanks for clarifying.

I will probably never be able to get off antipsychotics so I guess the natural production of my T (and other important hormones) will be compromised. I might consider a trial with T and Clomid (not like bodybuilders do but more in a cautious way and shorter cycle's).

As for HGH, I will definitely try that after I'm done losing my fat-mass and start intensive bodybuilding again.

One last question though, how much pmol/L testosterone is considered dangerous?

-edit- on a side note, although my libido is normal and never changed, another reason I know antipsychotics have a bad effect on my testosterone levels is because my testies have shrunk quite a lot ever since I'm on it (13 years) and my sperm production has been very low ever since.

You can always try a mild testosterone cycle for maybe two or three months just to see if you like the results and how beneficial it would be for you. I would say maybe 150 mg a week of testosterone cypionate split into two different shots (75mg 2x/wk) and then when you’re finished wait 2-3 weeks using nothing as it takes that time frame for the testosterone to leave your body. Then you start Clomid at 50mg per day for 30 days and that should be fine I’m sure you’re naturally levels will recover just fine. If you really want to optimize recovery you with use hCG at 500iu 2x/wk from the start of the testosterone until you finish and including the 2 to 3 week time frame you were off as the testosterone is still in your system. Then when you start Clomid you stop the hCG and just use the Clomid for 30 days.

I never really researched antipsychotics effects on testosterone. That’s interesting that your testes shrunk. I’ve only heard of that happening when using steroids or Exogenes testosterone creams, shots, etc. I would say mine are about 50% smaller than when I first started. Not noticeable when looking but when feeling it’s definitely noticeable LOL I never cared because every girl I was with said they could give two shits about testicles and I’ve been married for almost 7 years now anyway. The good thing is they do not shrink your penis at all in fact long-term it causes growth. Not so much length but a pretty noticeable increase on girth which is what about 90% of women prefer when they talk about “size.“ That makes sense because when you think about it the cervix is 5 to 6 inches inside the woman and it’s not a pleasurable feeling body part. But when the vagina stretches it puts more sensation on the areas that are stimulated sexually and that’s when width/girth comes into play. HGH plays a role in width as well.

Raloxifene increases natural testosterone about 20%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/15080785/

And it appears it lowers prolactin because prolactin and estrogen go hand in hand. The more estrogen you produce the more prolactin you can produce so by Raloxifene lowering estrogen that could be why prolactin decreased.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/12370106/

As far as reference ranges for when testosterone becomes dangerous there really isn’t any. It’s all based on the individual. I think you are not in the United States but here different labs use different values but the one I am the most familiar with and did the most testing on is in ng/dL total testosterone range 250-1100
Free testosterone range 35-155 pg/mL

So it’s not like if you are at 1200-1300 that’s considered dangerous. In fact a few hormone replacement doctors prefer their patients closer to 1500 and then many prefer them in the range. What’s most important is to follow up on cbc/metabolic panel bloodwork. Some of the main side effects of testosterone when it’s too high are high blood pressure, LDL increase, HDL decrease, and the main one is the thickening of blood. That’s why it’s important to monitor RBC’s, RDW, platelets, Hemoglobin and hematocrit. They will increase but studies have shown that the increase is not as damaging as say someone who has their levels increased from smoking or polycythemia vera or erythrocytosis. In fact when blood becomes thicker from testosterone it is called secondary induced erythrocytosis. Studies show it was not as harmful because they did a trial of people living at high altitude‘s who had secondary induced erythrocytosis. Their hematocrit was over 65( range 38.5-50%)They did not have the same health negatives as people with the genetic condition or the condition caused from smoking and other diseases. The main difference between the two was that the people at high-altitudes still had normal platelets. You can have high hemoglobin and red blood cells but if your platelets are normal it can be safe as that is the key factor in stroke’s and blood clots. For example my hematocrit is high all the time(around 53-55) but my platelets are perfect at 179 (range 140-400) And the studies with the people living in high-altitudes had normal platelets as well but smokers and people who genetically have erythrocytosis and polycythemia had high platelets. So really there’s no real “number” to go off of. You just want to monitor routine lab work as well as blood pressure and you can assess from there.

Edited by John250, 05 November 2018 - 12:45 AM.

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#212 YoungSchizo

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 09:01 PM

You can always try a mild testosterone cycle for maybe two or three months just to see if you like the results and how beneficial it would be for you. I would say maybe 150 mg a week of testosterone cypionate split into two different shots (75mg 2x/wk) and then when you’re finished wait 2-3 weeks using nothing as it takes that time frame for the testosterone to leave your body. Then you start Clomid at 50mg per day for 30 days and that should be fine I’m sure you’re naturally levels will recover just fine. If you really want to optimize recovery you with use hCG at 500iu 2x/wk from the start of the testosterone until you finish and including the 2 to 3 week time frame you were off as the testosterone is still in your system. Then when you start Clomid you stop the hCG and just use the Clomid for 30 days.

I never really researched antipsychotics effects on testosterone. That’s interesting that your testes shrunk. I’ve only heard of that happening when using steroids or Exogenes testosterone creams, shots, etc. I would say mine are about 50% smaller than when I first started. Not noticeable when looking but when feeling it’s definitely noticeable LOL I never cared because every girl I was with said they could give two shits about testicles and I’ve been married for almost 7 years now anyway. The good thing is they do not shrink your penis at all in fact long-term it causes growth. Not so much length but a pretty noticeable increase on girth which is what about 90% of women prefer when they talk about “size.“ That makes sense because when you think about it the cervix is 5 to 6 inches inside the woman and it’s not a pleasurable feeling body part. But when the vagina stretches it puts more sensation on the areas that are stimulated sexually and that’s when width/girth comes into play. HGH plays a role in width as well.

Raloxifene increases natural testosterone about 20%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/15080785/

And it appears it lowers prolactin because prolactin and estrogen go hand in hand. The more estrogen you produce the more prolactin you can produce so by Raloxifene lowering estrogen that could be why prolactin decreased.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/12370106/

As far as reference ranges for when testosterone becomes dangerous there really isn’t any. It’s all based on the individual. I think you are not in the United States but here different labs use different values but the one I am the most familiar with and did the most testing on is in ng/dL total testosterone range 250-1100
Free testosterone range 35-155 pg/mL

So it’s not like if you are at 1200-1300 that’s considered dangerous. In fact a few hormone replacement doctors prefer their patients closer to 1500 and then many prefer them in the range. What’s most important is to follow up on cbc/metabolic panel bloodwork. Some of the main side effects of testosterone when it’s too high are high blood pressure, LDL increase, HDL decrease, and the main one is the thickening of blood. That’s why it’s important to monitor RBC’s, RDW, platelets, Hemoglobin and hematocrit. They will increase but studies have shown that the increase is not as damaging as say someone who has their levels increased from smoking or polycythemia vera or erythrocytosis. In fact when blood becomes thicker from testosterone it is called secondary induced erythrocytosis. Studies show it was not as harmful because they did a trial of people living at high altitude‘s who had secondary induced erythrocytosis. Their hematocrit was over 65( range 38.5-50%)They did not have the same health negatives as people with the genetic condition or the condition caused from smoking and other diseases. The main difference between the two was that the people at high-altitudes still had normal platelets. You can have high hemoglobin and red blood cells but if your platelets are normal it can be safe as that is the key factor in stroke’s and blood clots. For example my hematocrit is high all the time(around 53-55) but my platelets are perfect at 179 (range 140-400) And the studies with the people living in high-altitudes had normal platelets as well but smokers and people who genetically have erythrocytosis and polycythemia had high platelets. So really there’s no real “number” to go off of. You just want to monitor routine lab work as well as blood pressure and you can assess from there.

 

Really appreciate that you take all the time to answer my questions/concerns!!! On bodybuilding forums they're almost all douchy about this subject when I ask something about this subject whilst the reality is when they get a roid-rage/psychosis or something they'll probably don't know what hits them. When it might happen to me I'm able to stay in touch with reality / reach for help because of my experiences with psychosisses.

 

Anyway, there are more and more study's building up the last few years that (intensive) exercise is concluded a must for schizophrenics/depressive people because it helps with all the symptoms there's no treatment available for yet and won't be for upcoming (many) years. I'm one of those that figured out 9 years ago that (aside from antipsychotics) the only thing that really helps me to keep me stable, minimize symptoms and to get through the day happy/satisfied is intensive exercise! The drawback of antipsychotics I face each year is that even though my body/build is capable to reach my (bodybuilding/exercise) goals antipsychotics just won't let me reach it, year in, year out, no matter what I tried I just end up fat, weak and hopeless. So, I'm practically done with how I get treated by so called specialists and this ("natural way") bullshit and am willing to take small risks and hope for the best that I psychically (and really HOPE mentally) finally will move forward in reaching my goals in what I love to do.

 

I will take notes of all the information/advice you've gave me!! I'll report back one day! Again, THANKS!!!

 

(PS. haha didn't know about the penis side-effect and biology lesson of the vagina. I'm not that tall of a guy so that side-effect is very welcome! :laugh: :-D )



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#213 John250

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 01:23 AM

Really appreciate that you take all the time to answer my questions/concerns!!! On bodybuilding forums they're almost all douchy about this subject when I ask something about this subject whilst the reality is when they get a roid-rage/psychosis or something they'll probably don't know what hits them. When it might happen to me I'm able to stay in touch with reality / reach for help because of my experiences with psychosisses.

Anyway, there are more and more study's building up the last few years that (intensive) exercise is concluded a must for schizophrenics/depressive people because it helps with all the symptoms there's no treatment available for yet and won't be for upcoming (many) years. I'm one of those that figured out 9 years ago that (aside from antipsychotics) the only thing that really helps me to keep me stable, minimize symptoms and to get through the day happy/satisfied is intensive exercise! The drawback of antipsychotics I face each year is that even though my body/build is capable to reach my (bodybuilding/exercise) goals antipsychotics just won't let me reach it, year in, year out, no matter what I tried I just end up fat, weak and hopeless. So, I'm practically done with how I get treated by so called specialists and this ("natural way") bullshit and am willing to take small risks and hope for the best that I psychically (and really HOPE mentally) finally will move forward in reaching my goals in what I love to do.

I will take notes of all the information/advice you've gave me!! I'll report back one day! Again, THANKS!!!

(PS. haha didn't know about the penis side-effect and biology lesson of the vagina. I'm not that tall of a guy so that side-effect is very welcome! :laugh: :-D )


Yes don’t ask advice on the bodybuilding forums about 99% of them are that way. Many other forms of the same way. Lots of “flaming“ and “newbies” bashing. Typically comes from insecure people as misery loves company and once you ask the wrong question just one time you get flamed and it’s like the Salem witch trials you’re better off just creating a new account in starting over LOL

Exercise beneficial for anyone with a mood disorder and pretty much any individuals out their mood disorder or not. It doesn’t have to be extreme either. You could always try to get testosterone from your doctor first but if you want a good source just message me what country you are in and Ill check a few who have a good reputation that deliver to your area and let you know. Might take me a day or two to reply.

It’s a shame the only drugs available to help many mood disorders come with such serious side effects. Getting fat and lowering testosterone will cause a whole new set of problems when the goal was to fix the issues in the first place. I think if more time and research were put into antipsychotics and other meds they should be able to mail the correct formula but I’m sure their focus is elsewhere. Only recently has testosterone replacement therapy being understood on how beneficial it is for certain people and that took decades for doctors to finally understand this. I think the main problem comes from when doctors prescribe medicine they don’t take the medicine themselves so they can’t really compare versus someone who actually uses them. The most knowledgeable people on mood disorders for example are the people who have the actual mood disorders and gone through trial and error with different medications.
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#214 Yuri

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 09:23 AM

Hi John

 

Have you ever heard of the pituitary extracts like

 

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

?

 

Up to new I tried adrenal extracts with success (I have low DHEA and I liked those extract more than DHEA cream)



#215 John250

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 05:14 PM

Hi John

Have you ever heard of the pituitary extracts like

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

?

Up to new I tried adrenal extracts with success (I have low DHEA and I liked those extract more than DHEA cream)


I honestly don’t know much about those. All I know is the original HGH that was derived from pituitary extract was very unhealthy and came with a lot of side effects. Not sure about the adrenal extracts though. I like Dermacrine for transdermal Dhea/pregnenolone though.

https://www.strongsu...ic-formulations

#216 Geoff1892

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 01:39 AM

Hi John, 

Thanks for the great information. You're a wealth of knowledge!

I have a question I'm hoping you could help me with... I'm a male model, 31 years, 165lbs, 8% body fat. I want to be around 175lbs, 8% body fat. I've just hit it big with some clients and I want to look my best. I follow Dr. Hertoghe for anti-aging, reverse aging, using hormones and peptide hormones to and build muscle, I'm not opposed to anabolics. For muscle growth I'm taking Testosterone SQ injections 15mcg daily, Serostim HGH 1.5 IU, IGF-LR3 20mcg, Dessicated thyroid 90mcg, Follistatin 50mcg, and PEG MGF 300mcg. I have long acting insulin but I don't know what to make of it, if I should use it or not... I'm looking to gain lean muscle, stay dry, while avoiding hair loss and major acne. Any chance you would be able to help me formulate a stack? Like I said, I'm not opposed to anabolics, insulin, higher doses of what I'm already taking etc. 

 

Thanks for your response in advance! 

Geoff 


Edited by Geoff1892, 09 December 2018 - 01:40 AM.


#217 John250

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 05:40 PM

Hi John,

Thanks for the great information. You're a wealth of knowledge!

I have a question I'm hoping you could help me with... I'm a male model, 31 years, 165lbs, 8% body fat. I want to be around 175lbs, 8% body fat. I've just hit it big with some clients and I want to look my best. I follow Dr. Hertoghe for anti-aging, reverse aging, using hormones and peptide hormones to and build muscle, I'm not opposed to anabolics. For muscle growth I'm taking Testosterone SQ injections 15mcg daily, Serostim HGH 1.5 IU, IGF-LR3 20mcg, Dessicated thyroid 90mcg, Follistatin 50mcg, and PEG MGF 300mcg. I have long acting insulin but I don't know what to make of it, if I should use it or not... I'm looking to gain lean muscle, stay dry, while avoiding hair loss and major acne. Any chance you would be able to help me formulate a stack? Like I said, I'm not opposed to anabolics, insulin, higher doses of what I'm already taking etc.

Thanks for your response in advance!

Geoff


What’s your total and free test and estradiol levels? I didn’t like SubQ Test it aromatizes more I’d switch to shallow IM everyday bs SubQ it will increase test more and estrogen will be lower. If you want to stay lean I’d avoid long acting slin for sure. Short acting you can control better. What’s your diet like(macros)?

#218 Geoff1892

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 07:53 PM


What’s your total and free test and estradiol levels? I didn’t like SubQ Test it aromatizes more I’d switch to shallow IM everyday bs SubQ it will increase test more and estrogen will be lower. If you want to stay lean I’d avoid long acting slin for sure. Short acting you can control better. What’s your diet like(macros)?

My free test sits at 24umol and estrogen fluctuates between 35pg/ml and top reference. I’m taking arimidex.5 every third day. You’re right though, my estrogen has been higher since starting SQ daily shots.
My diet is high fat, low carbohydrates, moderate/high protein. I eat 150g’s of carbs on non workout days and 200g’s on workout days, 180-200grams of protein daily and I eat a lot of saturated/ mono saturated fats, but I don’t calculate them. At least 50% of calories come from it. I do need to start tracking because when I try to gain weight I tend to overeat fats and gain a bunch of fat. I’m having trouble with finding the right amount of macros to gain muscle while limiting fat gain.

When you mentioned “daily shallow IM shots.” Does this mean I should use a 5/8 needle head instead of a 1 or 1 1/2 half inch head? I’ll switch over.

Thanks for your help!

#219 John250

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 11:53 PM

What’s your total and free test and estradiol levels? I didn’t like SubQ Test it aromatizes more I’d switch to shallow IM everyday bs SubQ it will increase test more and estrogen will be lower. If you want to stay lean I’d avoid long acting slin for sure. Short acting you can control better. What’s your diet like(macros)?

My free test sits at 24umol and estrogen fluctuates between 35pg/ml and top reference. I’m taking arimidex.5 every third day. You’re right though, my estrogen has been higher since starting SQ daily shots.
My diet is high fat, low carbohydrates, moderate/high protein. I eat 150g’s of carbs on non workout days and 200g’s on workout days, 180-200grams of protein daily and I eat a lot of saturated/ mono saturated fats, but I don’t calculate them. At least 50% of calories come from it. I do need to start tracking because when I try to gain weight I tend to overeat fats and gain a bunch of fat. I’m having trouble with finding the right amount of macros to gain muscle while limiting fat gain.

When you mentioned “daily shallow IM shots.” Does this mean I should use a 5/8 needle head instead of a 1 or 1 1/2 half inch head? I’ll switch over.

Thanks for your help!


Correct I backload a 1cc 29g 1/2” slin pin and do 25mg Cypionate ED into low fat areas like side delts, bi’s,tri’s,calves,etc..

Also split your adex lower like .25mg every other day. You can use less and get better results that way. And with IM shots you won’t aromatize as much so you can use less.

What times do you take your gh, igf and peg mgf?

What was the reference range for your test levels?

#220 Rocket

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 01:39 AM

Hi John,

Thanks for the great information. You're a wealth of knowledge!

I have a question I'm hoping you could help me with... I'm a male model, 31 years, 165lbs, 8% body fat. I want to be around 175lbs, 8% body fat. I've just hit it big with some clients and I want to look my best. I follow Dr. Hertoghe for anti-aging, reverse aging, using hormones and peptide hormones to and build muscle, I'm not opposed to anabolics. For muscle growth I'm taking Testosterone SQ injections 15mcg daily, Serostim HGH 1.5 IU, IGF-LR3 20mcg, Dessicated thyroid 90mcg, Follistatin 50mcg, and PEG MGF 300mcg. I have long acting insulin but I don't know what to make of it, if I should use it or not... I'm looking to gain lean muscle, stay dry, while avoiding hair loss and major acne. Any chance you would be able to help me formulate a stack? Like I said, I'm not opposed to anabolics, insulin, higher doses of what I'm already taking etc.

Thanks for your response in advance!

Geoff

You definitely do NOT need chemical assistance to go from 165 to 175. If you can't do that naturally then you need to get with a trainer and get your diet together. Unless you are 85 years old, using anabolics or HGH or insulin is the height of lunacy. Are you 5 feet 2 inches tall? If you can't do that naturally then you can't do it with chemicals either. Considering you can't put on a meager 10 pounds to hit 175 with with the stuff you are taking, if you touch insulin, you get what you ask for.

Edited by Rocket, 10 December 2018 - 01:43 AM.

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#221 Geoff1892

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 02:11 AM

Correct I backload a 1cc 29g 1/2” slin pin and do 25mg Cypionate ED into low fat areas like side delts, bi’s,tri’s,calves,etc..

Also split your adex lower like .25mg every other day. You can use less and get better results that way. And with IM shots you won’t aromatize as much so you can use less.

What times do you take your gh, igf and peg mgf?

What was the reference range for your test levels?

Okay, perfect! I'll switch from SQ to IM tomorrow. I looked it up after you recommended the method and lots of people do it on excelmale. I had low SHBG and constant estrogen fluctuations it seems this would be the best solution. I'll also do lower dose Adex to every other day at .25. Funny, you mentioned it, I was thinking about making that change a couple days ago. Thank you!

 

I take HGH 1.5iu before bed in one dose to match my circadian. I take IGF-1 after my workout or with my dinner which happens to be my biggest carb meal of the day. I take MGF everyday at waking 150mcg and 3-4 hours after at 150mcg. Sometimes I do a third of 100mcg 2 hours before workout. I find 400-500mcg is a sweet spot. 

 

My reference for test is 8-30. SQ shots have given inconsistent serum levels, 20-24 is what it's been the past couple months. 

 

I have a busy spring coming up for modelling. I was thinking of throwing some Anavar or fast acting insulin into the mix. I can't afford Primo and I'm thinking 6 pounds in the next 6 weeks would be a big help for the spring market... What are your thoughts?

 

I really appreciate your help man! 



 



#222 Geoff1892

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 02:22 AM

You definitely do NOT need chemical assistance to go from 165 to 175. If you can't do that naturally then you need to get with a trainer and get your diet together. Unless you are 85 years old, using anabolics or HGH or insulin is the height of lunacy. Are you 5 feet 2 inches tall? If you can't do that naturally then you can't do it with chemicals either. Considering you can't put on a meager 10 pounds to hit 175 with with the stuff you are taking, if you touch insulin, you get what you ask for.

 

You definitely do NOT know what you are talking about if you believe you can gain 10 pounds of muscle in a few months. Hormones including HGH, insulin, test etc. within physiological top ranges are optimal for health and longevity and it's uneducated for you to state overwise. Steroids in low doses are used by HRT specialists such as the world renown Dr. Thierry Hertoghe, no one I think you would know. Steroids have their place in medicine and a few actually improve lab biomarkers. I appreciate your rant, but my long acting insulin, HGH and all the other evil hormones I'm taking are prescribed. You should chill out, get out of your head and read a book. Thanks for coming out!


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#223 Rocket

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 03:44 PM

You definitely do NOT know what you are talking about if you believe you can gain 10 pounds of muscle in a few months. Hormones including HGH, insulin, test etc. within physiological top ranges are optimal for health and longevity and it's uneducated for you to state overwise. Steroids in low doses are used by HRT specialists such as the world renown Dr. Thierry Hertoghe, no one I think you would know. Steroids have their place in medicine and a few actually improve lab biomarkers. I appreciate your rant, but my long acting insulin, HGH and all the other evil hormones I'm taking are prescribed. You should chill out, get out of your head and read a book. Thanks for coming out!

 

If you can't gain 10 pounds to go from a meager 165 to a normal 175 without steroids, insulin, and HGH, you have no place taking them in the first place. Water always finds its level and you have told us how low your level is. God forbid you should actually train right and eat right over 4 months and not try to do it in 6 weeks.

 

A. Train right

B. Eat right

 

If you had bothered to do research you would know I am proponent of anabolics and hgh when used correctly. If you don't know how to get to a normal body weight without HGH (which isn't even *that* anabolic) and insulin, and anabolics, and thyroid meds, then you should consult with a professional trainer and dietician.

 

It's irresponsible individuals like yourself that led to the illegalization of these compounds in the first place. And if people on this forum are ignorant enough to try and put together an anabolic stack of steroids and insulin and HGH, then they themselves just discredited themselves.

 

"Oh my god, I need to gain 5 pounds of muscle! I better jump a deca and test and hgh and long lasting insulin!"

 

Good luck! :)


Edited by Rocket, 10 December 2018 - 04:04 PM.

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#224 Geoff1892

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 04:22 PM

Lol Research you in this thread? You don’t have anything of value to say so I must have skipped through of what you had to say. Get over yourself.

I’m on HRT at low doses because I have suboptimal levels and as uneducated as you are, I don’t feel you have any credibility telling me that my doctor has no business prescribing for hormones deficiencies. Psychological doses, not pharmacological dosages, do you understand that kiddo? This is way over bigger than your small mind and my doses aren’t only about muscle. Let me break it down further for you. Do you think someone is going to get huge amounts of muscle at 100mg of testosterone and 1.5iu of HGH, maybe if you “bothered to research” you would have read and absorbed that. Everything I’m taking is at low dose, HRT isn’t going to build muscle past maximal potential and YES steroids do that. You are wrong in every way.

My doctor prescribed long acting insulin to bring levels up, not to bodybuild, you tit. You are not intelligent. I don’t know what else to say except to tell you to get educated because it’s clear you are not. I hope you never have children.

So dumb.
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#225 John250

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 05:18 PM

Okay, perfect! I'll switch from SQ to IM tomorrow. I looked it up after you recommended the method and lots of people do it on excelmale. I had low SHBG and constant estrogen fluctuations it seems this would be the best solution. I'll also do lower dose Adex to every other day at .25. Funny, you mentioned it, I was thinking about making that change a couple days ago. Thank you!

I take HGH 1.5iu before bed in one dose to match my circadian. I take IGF-1 after my workout or with my dinner which happens to be my biggest carb meal of the day. I take MGF everyday at waking 150mcg and 3-4 hours after at 150mcg. Sometimes I do a third of 100mcg 2 hours before workout. I find 400-500mcg is a sweet spot.

My reference for test is 8-30. SQ shots have given inconsistent serum levels, 20-24 is what it's been the past couple months.

I have a busy spring coming up for modelling. I was thinking of throwing some Anavar or fast acting insulin into the mix. I can't afford Primo and I'm thinking 6 pounds in the next 6 weeks would be a big help for the spring market... What are your thoughts?

I really appreciate your help man!

You said your Dr prescribed long acting insulin to bring levels up. Why? You don’t want insulin high all the time only during and after weight training sessions. I’d ditch the long acting insulin if you want to stay lean.

50mg/day Anavar would be much better. If the range for free test was 8-30 and your at 20-24 I’d add a little more test. You want it at least at 30 if not a little higher. Try 20mg ED shallow IM and add Anavar. Maybe throw in 50mg/day Proviron or 200mg/wk MasteronEnanthate as well. That will bump free test levels up without increasing estrogen and harden you up a little.

Hgh pre bed is good stick with SubQ for HGH. Don’t use the sterile water that comes with Serostim though as it’s only good for 3-4days once mixed and kept in fridge. You want bacteriostatic water that will prolong the hgh for a few weeks to avoid any degradation.
https://www.mountain...tic-water-30-ml

I don’t know much about MGF I never noticed much from it but I do recall it being important to time it correctly around IGF. Professionalmuscle.com has the best info on that.

IGF-LR3 shoot it IM pre workout. It peaks around 1hr and has a 24hr half life so it technically doesn’t make a big difference when you take it but I like the peak to occur when the workout is over so you can take advantage of the nutrient partitioning during post workout shake/meals.

Also it’s normal for SHBG to be low on cycle or HRT it’s really important when your on HRT anyway. Maybe get DHEA and pregnenolone checked as well. If they are low use a transdermal Dhea/pregnenolone formula like Dermacrine or add 250iu hcg 2x/wk to your HRT as it helps balance out neurosteroids like Dhea,pregnenolone, progesterone,etc..

Edited by John250, 10 December 2018 - 05:25 PM.

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#226 Geoff1892

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 01:38 AM

You said your Dr prescribed long acting insulin to bring levels up. Why? You don’t want insulin high all the time only during and after weight training sessions. I’d ditch the long acting insulin if you want to stay lean. 

50mg/day Anavar would be much better. If the range for free test was 8-30 and your at 20-24 I’d add a little more test. You want it at least at 30 if not a little higher. Try 20mg ED shallow IM and add Anavar. Maybe throw in 50mg/day Proviron or 200mg/wk MasteronEnanthate as well. That will bump free test levels up without increasing estrogen and harden you up a little.

Hgh pre bed is good stick with SubQ for HGH. Don’t use the sterile water that comes with Serostim though as it’s only good for 3-4days once mixed and kept in fridge. You want bacteriostatic water that will prolong the hgh for a few weeks to avoid any degradation.
https://www.mountain...tic-water-30-ml

I don’t know much about MGF I never noticed much from it but I do recall it being important to time it correctly around IGF. Professionalmuscle.com has the best info on that.

IGF-LR3 shoot it IM pre workout. It peaks around 1hr and has a 24hr half life so it technically doesn’t make a big difference when you take it but I like the peak to occur when the workout is over so you can take advantage of the nutrient partitioning during post workout shake/meals.

Also it’s normal for SHBG to be low on cycle or HRT it’s really important when your on HRT anyway. Maybe get DHEA and pregnenolone checked as well. If they are low use a transdermal Dhea/pregnenolone formula like Dermacrine or add 250iu hcg 2x/wk to your HRT as it helps balance out neurosteroids like Dhea,pregnenolone, progesterone,etc..My 

My doctor prescribed long acting insulin when my fasting insulin levels came in at 9 the first month and 12 the second month. He just said that based off those numbers I needed insulin. I'm pretty sure my fasting insulin was low because I was intermittent fasting. Once I stopped fasting my numbers went back in range (in the mid 30's) I just have a bunch left over so I thought I was would mention it in case you recommended it's use. He's a certified doctor under Dr. Hertoghe, so they treat with a template as such (see link). http://static.hertog...MEDICATIONS.pdf

Thanks you so much. I took your recommendation I'll start the stack of Anavar and Proviron by the end of the week! Great recommendation, I didn't even consider Proviron but it looks like it would make a great addition with the benefits you mentioned above. Would you have told me to take Primo if I could afford it? Wondering, because you suggested two DHT derivatives. 

 

Interesting about bacteriostic water. I'll use that from now on. I started shallow injections of 20mg daily of Testosterone this morning as well. I took my IGF pre-workout as well, thank you for the tip!

I didn't get you my full medication list but my doctor does have me on Preg 100mg/ Dhea 50mg but I decided to have him cut it to 50mg of preg and 40mg of DHEA because I was getting acne. What dosages do you take? What are your thoughts on mine? He also has me on 5mg of progesterone taken before bed, Desmopressin .1mg before bed and recommended I take Oxytocin, Melanolan II and melatonin, which I do.

 

What were your thoughts on my diet and micro count? With this stack I want to make sure I'm doing it right. I would appreciate any insight! 

 

I was hoping the hear your thoughts on my workout and what you do. As far as my workout routine goes I alternated from Low volume, reverse pyramid (lean gains style) to high frequency. I did that for 8 years but I was getting injured and the results weren't great for me. I'm now doing a style of Lynn Mc Donalds workouts. Upper/Lower body split, 4 days a week. First couple days I do low volume upper/lower followed by increased volume for the last 2 days. I hit compound moments on my first excersises of the workout. I Max out my first two big compound movements, use short tempos and 3 seconds or so between reps. For the last two days upper/lower I increase the volume, still use a lot of compound but have a larger variety of isolate excersises, change tempos and don't max out on these days. That's my workout strategy in a nut shell but I max out more than I led on, and I incorporate supersets, drop sets (if I lifted to heavy and don't hit my desired rep range), pauses, negatives and other variations. 

 

Thanks again for all your help, I'll keep in touch with you throughout this all and you can see the process man! I owe you big time! 

 

 


Edited by Geoff1892, 11 December 2018 - 01:49 AM.


#227 John250

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 03:05 AM

What is the lab of your gear?

Primo isn’t that great. You need at least 400-500mg/wk. 1-Test(DHB)(Dihydroboldenone) at 300mg/wk is much better.

Careful with desmopressin it’s a clot promoter and AAS are notorious for increasing clotting. Dhea/pregnenolone are very vast with dosing and route of administration. Only bloodwork can tell proper dosing. For example oral and sublingual Dhea did not increase my levels at all but transdermal did.

For diet/training what is your body type naturally? Ecomorph/endomorph,etc.?

Edited by John250, 11 December 2018 - 03:09 AM.


#228 Rocket

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 12:17 AM

Lol Research you in this thread? You don’t have anything of value to say so I must have skipped through of what you had to say. Get over yourself.

I’m on HRT at low doses because I have suboptimal levels and as uneducated as you are, I don’t feel you have any credibility telling me that my doctor has no business prescribing for hormones deficiencies. Psychological doses, not pharmacological dosages, do you understand that kiddo? This is way over bigger than your small mind and my doses aren’t only about muscle. Let me break it down further for you. Do you think someone is going to get huge amounts of muscle at 100mg of testosterone and 1.5iu of HGH, maybe if you “bothered to research” you would have read and absorbed that. Everything I’m taking is at low dose, HRT isn’t going to build muscle past maximal potential and YES steroids do that. You are wrong in every way.

My doctor prescribed long acting insulin to bring levels up, not to bodybuild, you tit. You are not intelligent. I don’t know what else to say except to tell you to get educated because it’s clear you are not. I hope you never have children.

So dumb.

 

Poor baby. I didn't kiss your booboo and give you a blanket and a hot cup of soup
to make you feel better.

 

Go post that nonsense on a real bodybuilding forum... that you have to go on insulin
and HGH, and deca/tren and testosterone in order to gain 10 pounds on a 165 pound frame.

 

You don't know the meaning of the phrase "getting flamed".

 

If you can't gain a paultry 10 pounds without 4 anabolic compounds in your veins, then
you can't do it with the chemicals either, especially when you weigh zero to begin with.

 

You need to research what goes into a pound of muscle... The amount of protein, the amount
of water, the amount of other nutrients. And then you need to do the math to see how many
grams of everything your muscles to add to themselves each and every day. You can do math,
right? Models do take high school math, right?

 

Then you need to figure out how many excess calories that is per day, and then per meal.

Then you need to go the gym.... and wait for it.... wait for it... you need to KNOW how to
train your muscles.

 

At 165 pounds, you are still in the realm of noob gains and will gain more than 2lbs per
month if you knew what you were doing. But hey, that's rocket science to some people.

 

Do your homework. You're on enough sh*t now and you are not gaining anything. Adding more
ain't going to help you any at all "man".

 

You have lived your entire 31 years with zero body weight and now all of the sudden your life depends on 

gaining 10 pounds of dry muscle in 2 months... hmmm. Yeah, I'm sure.

 

You are the poster child for why anabolics are illegal. Oh wait, you are a millennial so you don't know

the virtues of putting in hard work. Enough said. 

 

Make sure you take some before after pics please. You are a model so that means you spend all day

trying to look sexy in selfies.

 


Edited by Rocket, 12 December 2018 - 12:24 AM.

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#229 Geoff1892

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 02:32 PM

What is the lab of your gear?

Primo isn’t that great. You need at least 400-500mg/wk. 1-Test(DHB)(Dihydroboldenone) at 300mg/wk is much better.

Careful with desmopressin it’s a clot promoter and AAS are notorious for increasing clotting. Dhea/pregnenolone are very vast with dosing and route of administration. Only bloodwork can tell proper dosing. For example oral and sublingual Dhea did not increase my levels at all but transdermal did.

For diet/training what is your body type naturally? Ecomorph/endomorph,etc.?

Teragon is the lab for both.

Interesting, I’ve heard of people raving about it but only at the higher dosages of 600+. 1 Test, I’ve heard of that, But haven’t read much, I’ll dig in. Thank you!

Right, thanks for making that connection. I’ll stop the Desmopressin in the mean time.

For sure, preg has low toxicity levels so I wanted to see if you experimented with higher dosages for its effects. DHEA, we keep my levels at top range 13-14 in a ref. of 8-14umol/L. What brand of transdermal do you use? I used so called “pharmaceutical grade”,oral, over the counter DHEA and Preg from the states and had in consistencies in my blood levels. In Canada, we can only get DHEA and Preg by prescription and its oral form has been good at raising my serum levels, especially Preg levels, but age and your gut are other factors in absorption.

My body type is ectomoph, trouble gaining firm body weight. My doctor says I have low cortisol and that’s part of the reason why I can’t gain weight, besides other hormonal deficiencies and genetics. He prescribed hydrocortisone 20mg daily but I haven’t taken it due to its catabolic effects, despite what he’s told me that about anabolic hormones counteracting its catabolic effects. It’s a strange thing, when I feel cortisol tanking, I get thin and muscle gets eaten but when my serum cortisol is good, my muscle mass is firm and pumped. What are your thoughts on supplementing hydrocortisone in physiological amounts to meet ref. ranges?

What are your thoughts on long term anabolic steroids usage? I have a book by Dr. Hertoghe called “The Hormone Handbook.” He recommends Deca Durabolin at 25-100mg weekly and testosterone derived steroids usage at low dose. He prescribes based on, of course labs and patient by patient basis but not age.

You’re probably wondering why I have so many hormonal deficiencies and trying to connect the dots.

I had an infection called Rocky Mountain spotted fever. It went undiagnosed for 4 years, when I became bed ridden. All it took for a fucking 20 day course of doxycycline but it took 4 years for them to figure it out.
It caused significant damage to my endocrine system and it could only be restored with hormonal therapy.

I didn’t mention, I take LDN to increase cortisol, works well but not enough for HGH, even at my low dose of 1.5. LDN raises my serum morning but the HGH can suppress ACTH not long after use and cause my levels to plummet. It comes and goes based on stress, etc.

How were you ever able to keep your cortisol high enough while taking 6iu of HGH for your cycle?!

Edited by Geoff1892, 12 December 2018 - 03:29 PM.


#230 Geoff1892

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 03:40 PM

Poor baby. I didn't kiss your booboo and give you a blanket and a hot cup of soup
to make you feel better.

Go post that nonsense on a real bodybuilding forum... that you have to go on insulin
and HGH, and deca/tren and testosterone in order to gain 10 pounds on a 165 pound frame.

You don't know the meaning of the phrase "getting flamed".

If you can't gain a paultry 10 pounds without 4 anabolic compounds in your veins, then
you can't do it with the chemicals either, especially when you weigh zero to begin with.

You need to research what goes into a pound of muscle... The amount of protein, the amount
of water, the amount of other nutrients. And then you need to do the math to see how many
grams of everything your muscles to add to themselves each and every day. You can do math,
right? Models do take high school math, right?

Then you need to figure out how many excess calories that is per day, and then per meal.
Then you need to go the gym.... and wait for it.... wait for it... you need to KNOW how to
train your muscles.

At 165 pounds, you are still in the realm of noob gains and will gain more than 2lbs per
month if you knew what you were doing. But hey, that's rocket science to some people.

Do your homework. You're on enough sh*t now and you are not gaining anything. Adding more
ain't going to help you any at all "man".

You have lived your entire 31 years with zero body weight and now all of the sudden your life depends on
gaining 10 pounds of dry muscle in 2 months... hmmm. Yeah, I'm sure.

You are the poster child for why anabolics are illegal. Oh wait, you are a millennial so you don't know
the virtues of putting in hard work. Enough said.

Make sure you take some before after pics please. You are a model so that means you spend all day
trying to look sexy in selfies.


Ironman, Why are you still trolling. What is your point in all this?

Based on your limited volcabulary, childish accusations, assumptions, and lack of perception, you’re proving that you are uneducated. I’m certain you have don’t have a scientific background because you don’t understand the complexities of biological science. Let me guess, you “fat shame” because you don’t understand the biological complexities of metabolism and genetics? Why are you even on this website? You haven’t learned anything. This isn’t a website for trolling, it’s for educated people looking to network and learn from other educated and critical thinkers.

If you want to troll, go to Facebook or other bodybuilding forms. Stop replying, you’re embarrassing yourself with jabs of your assumptions that are based on nothing.

Edited by Geoff1892, 12 December 2018 - 03:57 PM.

  • Good Point x 2

#231 John250

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 08:31 PM

Teragon is the lab for both.

Interesting, I’ve heard of people raving about it but only at the higher dosages of 600+. 1 Test, I’ve heard of that, But haven’t read much, I’ll dig in. Thank you!

Right, thanks for making that connection. I’ll stop the Desmopressin in the mean time.

For sure, preg has low toxicity levels so I wanted to see if you experimented with higher dosages for its effects. DHEA, we keep my levels at top range 13-14 in a ref. of 8-14umol/L. What brand of transdermal do you use? I used so called “pharmaceutical grade”,oral, over the counter DHEA and Preg from the states and had in consistencies in my blood levels. In Canada, we can only get DHEA and Preg by prescription and its oral form has been good at raising my serum levels, especially Preg levels, but age and your gut are other factors in absorption.

My body type is ectomoph, trouble gaining firm body weight. My doctor says I have low cortisol and that’s part of the reason why I can’t gain weight, besides other hormonal deficiencies and genetics. He prescribed hydrocortisone 20mg daily but I haven’t taken it due to its catabolic effects, despite what he’s told me that about anabolic hormones counteracting its catabolic effects. It’s a strange thing, when I feel cortisol tanking, I get thin and muscle gets eaten but when my serum cortisol is good, my muscle mass is firm and pumped. What are your thoughts on supplementing hydrocortisone in physiological amounts to meet ref. ranges?

What are your thoughts on long term anabolic steroids usage? I have a book by Dr. Hertoghe called “The Hormone Handbook.” He recommends Deca Durabolin at 25-100mg weekly and testosterone derived steroids usage at low dose. He prescribes based on, of course labs and patient by patient basis but not age.

You’re probably wondering why I have so many hormonal deficiencies and trying to connect the dots.

I had an infection called Rocky Mountain spotted fever. It went undiagnosed for 4 years, when I became bed ridden. All it took for a fucking 20 day course of doxycycline but it took 4 years for them to figure it out.
It caused significant damage to my endocrine system and it could only be restored with hormonal therapy.

I didn’t mention, I take LDN to increase cortisol, works well but not enough for HGH, even at my low dose of 1.5. LDN raises my serum morning but the HGH can suppress ACTH not long after use and cause my levels to plummet. It comes and goes based on stress, etc.

How were you ever able to keep your cortisol high enough while taking 6iu of HGH for your cycle?!

Les say your BMR is around 1750cals so figure 2500cal from training/cardio. So say 200g protein/200g carbs 100g fat. I’d increase calories by 250 from protein only(65g protein) and see how you respond. After 3-4wks if your still staying lean and not gaining muscle add another 250(from more fats/25-30g)

I like Life-Flo transdermals.

I wouldn’t use hydrocortisone your cortisol should already increase from training hard. 1.5iu GH should have minimal impact. Check out John Meadows training methods and try it out. It’s intense and many can’t do it bc it takes a toll on cortisol but you may be s good candidate for it since you have the opposite issue.

Long term AAS other than HRT I wouldn’t recommend as deca and most AAS come with cardiovascular sides. Stick with 2 cycles per year(2-3month cycles) and the rest of the time HRT.

Edited by John250, 12 December 2018 - 08:33 PM.

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#232 muscle

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 05:00 PM

Transdermal cycle vs injections.
Is it possible to achieve similar results with transdermal only cycles?

#233 John250

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 05:30 PM

Transdermal cycle vs injections.
Is it possible to achieve similar results with transdermal only cycles?


Yes. My old source used to have transdermal test no ester, transdermal Tren no ester, transdermal eq no ester and transdermal deca no ester. I tried the test and it was good. You absorb about 50% so if it was say 1pump= 100mg/ml you absorb 50mg. They were all fast acting esterless compounds as I believe that’s all that worked but aside from the 50% absorption it’s not a bad route for those who don’t like to inject. Hard to come across though.

#234 muscle

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 05:47 PM

Hi John. Thanks for the reply. What about mk677 vs gh injections? Are similar results possible?

Edited by muscle, 13 December 2018 - 05:48 PM.


#235 muscle

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 05:50 PM

My last question is about androgen receptors. What is the best way to upregulate them so that your body can take advantage of the additional compounds?

#236 John250

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 09:08 PM

Hi John. Thanks for the reply. What about mk677 vs gh injections? Are similar results possible?


Hi John. Thanks for the reply. What about mk677 vs gh injections? Are similar results possible?


Mk677 Will actually put more size on you then HGH. Start very low around 6-7mg then increase to 12.5 mg after week. I think 12.5 mg is a good dose to get most of the benefits with the least amount of side effects but you can increase it up to 25 mg. It’s not going to get you as lean as HGH would but it definitely puts on some size with a lot of fullness and strength. Side effects are increased appetite and lethargy at first but they subside after a few weeks. By titrating it helps the side effects. You can use it for three or four months and then give yourself a break for a couple months.

Androgenic/DHT like Proviron and Masteron. Keep estrogen in range(minimize aromatase). Natural ways:

https://anabolicmen....ogen-receptors/

https://naturalsupre...018-update/amp/
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#237 Rocket

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 03:38 PM

My last question is about androgen receptors. What is the best way to upregulate them so that your body can take advantage of the additional compounds?

 

You want to increase protein synthesis. One way is through double stimulation, which will extend the time ever which protein synthesis occurs. But if your diet isn't on point, it will not be effective. I have used this method successfully. 



#238 John250

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 05:56 PM

You want to increase protein synthesis. One way is through double stimulation, which will extend the time ever which protein synthesis occurs. But if your diet isn't on point, it will not be effective. I have used this method successfully.


Activation of mTOR, IGF, resistance training and being in a caloric surplus are the main ways to increase protein synthesis. Double stim is interesting I’ve actually never really experimented with it. What’s interesting is the old pro bodybuilder Claude Groulx used to always train the same muscle the following day but only one exercise with a warm up set followed by only one 15-25 rep low weight set.

#239 YoungSchizo

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 01:21 AM

@John250

 

As you already know I've been heavily gone up and down in weight over the past decade, although not too much but quite noticeable, this has taken it's toll and resulted in excess skin and as you know I might never be able to fill it up with muscle's due to antipsychotics and if your plan/advice for me somehow fails due to adverse effects I will probably would have to learn to live with it.

 

What are other ways to increase collagen? Afaik the only effective way (or maybe even better said were commercialized years ago) are those infrared-light sunbathers..? 



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#240 Geoff1892

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 03:50 AM

Les say your BMR is around 1750cals so figure 2500cal from training/cardio. So say 200g protein/200g carbs 100g fat. I’d increase calories by 250 from protein only(65g protein) and see how you respond. After 3-4wks if your still staying lean and not gaining muscle add another 250(from more fats/25-30g)

I like Life-Flo transdermals.

I wouldn’t use hydrocortisone your cortisol should already increase from training hard. 1.5iu GH should have minimal impact. Check out John Meadows training methods and try it out. It’s intense and many can’t do it bc it takes a toll on cortisol but you may be s good candidate for it since you have the opposite issue.

Long term AAS other than HRT I wouldn’t recommend as deca and most AAS come with cardiovascular sides. Stick with 2 cycles per year(2-3month cycles) and the rest of the time HRT.

 

Hi John, 

 

Thanks for all this, huge help! Your diet recommendations were helpful. The extra carbs increased muscle glycogen, which was much needed! 

I've read before that Anavar is liver toxic but the studies don't show it to be harmful, even at the dose I'm on. I've also read on forums that people use for a max of 8 weeks. What are your recommendations for running. 

The cycle is going well so far. I had a casting for a big client, for catalog yesterday and I got the job. I honestly attribute this to increasing my dose of Test, starting anavar and proviron. I've always been ripped but this stack turned me into a greek god for this casting. It also makes my face and neck look more masculine. pretty interesting! Thank you so much for all this.  FYI all the SARMs are garbage compared to Anavar. It says a lot about SARMs considering I'm taking the weakest steroid. 

I've seen you talk about MK 677 quite a bit. I ran it for a couple cycles and didn't like the results. The water weight, body fat that came along with the muscle didn't make it worth it. I was concerned about a few things... The body has over 7 pathways to raise HGH and I don't think making the body raise it through one pathway is the right away, especially Ghrelin. I'm also concerned with it raising A1C. Please see study attached. What are your thoughts on MK677 vs HGH and IGF treatment? I'm aware of the desensitizing concerns with IGF but kids are treated with it everyday, long term, besides the studies don't show huge desensitizing.

https://www.nature.c...otcallback=true
 


Edited by Geoff1892, 21 December 2018 - 04:17 AM.






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