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What to remove from my supplement arsenal

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#1 John250

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 11:04 PM


I previously took about 72 supplements and decided to cut about 1/2 out. Lately I’ve been having bad compulsive almost ritualistic like Problems like avoiding important tasks, procrastination, smoking, constantly trying to find the right drug combo to get in the state of mine to start working. I was thinking possibly some of my supplements could affect it so I cut a lot out. Below is what I currently use. If you have any advice on what should be added or removed I would appreciate it. Thank you

Diagnosis: “traits” of borderline personality disorder, “traits“ of anxiety, “traits “ of ADHD, “traits “ of depression.

Prescription medication:
Hormone replacement therapy
Lexapro 5-10mg/day
Abilify 2mg/day
Lisinopril 40mg/day(high RHR, High BP, High Hemoglobin)
Vyvanse 60mg morning
Adderall 30mg or Dexedrine 15mg in afternoon

Mutations:
Catalyzes production of GABA from glutamate
High Glutamate low Gaba
Poor methylation of B12 leading to higher homeocysteine (b12 bloodwork shows high)(homocysteine 4.6 range 0-15)
Low concentration B6 (b6 bloodwork shows high)
Increased and decreased MAO-A
Decreased MAO-B
Reduced catalytic activity 50% Vitamin A
Mitochondrial Superoxide Dosmitase 2 (decreased gene function decreased noise/hearing loss)
Glucocorticoid resistance high cortisol, CFS
Neurotrophic Tyronise kinase receptor type2(decrease BDNF)
Cyp2dC rs16947(A/A) possible ultra metabolizer
Cyp1A2 (A/A) rs72547513 Hydroxylation or dealkylation of xenobiotics. CYP1A2*11 allele with approximately 5% activity of that of the CYP1A2 wild type

Supplements:

CBD 25mg/day(GetZen Organic Coconut Oil CBD isolate)
Complete Multivitamin(Viva Vitamins)
magnesium l threonate Magtein 2010mg night
Fish oil 3G 2x daily(Nutrabio)
Krill oil 1g 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Astaxanthin 15mg/day
Vitamin C complex 2g 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
VitE complex 400iu/day(solgar)
D3 10,000iu day(vitaminshoppe)
NA-RALA 125mg 2x/day (doctors best)
ALCAR 500mg 2x/day
Ubiquinol 200mg/day(jarrow)
MitoQ 10mg/day
cycloastragenol 25mg/day
Astragaloside IV 20% 100mg/day
PQQ 20mg/day
Baby aspirin/day
Selenium 100mcg/day 3-4 days/wk
Citrus Bergamot 500mg/day(jarrow)
Lumbrokinase 2,000fu/day(doctors best)
Arjuna 1 tab/day(Himalaya)
Feverfew 325mg 2x/day(NOW)
Pycnogenol 100mg 1-2x/day(vitamineshoppe)
Trans-Resvertrol 500mg 2x/day(Nutrabio)
Grape seed 100mg/day(%75)(vitaminshoppe)
Indoor-3-Carbinol 200mg 1x/day(NOW)
Boswellia 5-Loxin 150mg/day
Siberian Eleuthero 500mg2x/day(.8%)(Bluebonnet)
Ginko Biloba 120mg(%24%) 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
NAC 600mg 1-2/xday(vitaminshoppe)
Methyl b-12 5000mcg/day(jarrow)
D-Ribose powder 10g/day
VSL#3 probiotic 1/day
Restore 1-3tsp/day(restore for life)
Niacinamide 500mg/day(nutrabio)
Tru Niagen 250mg 2x/day
Ceylon Cinnamon 500mg 1-2x/day(carlson Labs)
Ginkgo Bilboa 120mg 2x/day
Creatine Monohydrate 5-10g/day
300mcg Melatonin/night
Jiaogulan 2x/day
Ashitaba 500mg 2x/day
DanShen 550mg 2-3x/day
Tulsi holy basil 900mg/day(organic India)

Edited by John250, 29 June 2018 - 11:13 PM.

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#2 9lives

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 06:25 AM

Lots to unpack here, my friend. Without digging too deep, you may have conflicting tendencies in your methylation pathway based on your gene mutations. Given your B12 mutation, are you supplementing? According to a doctor I follow, Niacinamide would worsen someone's symptoms who already has poor methylation.

 

Aside from poor methylation, HRT (assuming testosterone?) can increase your anxiety levels if dosage is too high. 

 

It's strange if you're still experiencing ADHD with an Adderall prescription.

 

My experience is besides GABA, L-theanine also helps to balance high glutamate. 

 

You can probably save $500/ month reducing your supplement regimen in the right areas, cycling on/off, etc.

 

Disclaimer: this is not medical advice and isn't intended to diagnose or cure. Please see your doctor.


Edited by 9lives, 01 July 2018 - 06:27 AM.


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#3 John250

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 08:22 AM

Lots to unpack here, my friend. Without digging too deep, you may have conflicting tendencies in your methylation pathway based on your gene mutations. Given your B12 mutation, are you supplementing? According to a doctor I follow, Niacinamide would worsen someone's symptoms who already has poor methylation.

Aside from poor methylation, HRT (assuming testosterone?) can increase your anxiety levels if dosage is too high.

It's strange if you're still experiencing ADHD with an Adderall prescription.

My experience is besides GABA, L-theanine also helps to balance high glutamate.

You can probably save $500/ month reducing your supplement regimen in the right areas, cycling on/off, etc.

Disclaimer: this is not medical advice and isn't intended to diagnose or cure. Please see your doctor.


My Neutra hacker supplemental to guide is confusing because for supplements it says to take it is:
Hydroxy B12 (hydroxycobalamin)
Due to decreased COMT and Gene Function: Degrades catecholamines, Phase II, inactivates hydroxy-estrogen

But then also says to take MethylB12
MTRR
Methylates, recycles vitamin b12

And then also says just B12
Converts folic acid to 5-methyltetrahydrofoate


But then under supplements to NOT take it says MethylB12 so it’s contradicting itself.

It also says take no methyl donors but then says to take 5-Methyl Folate:
SHMT1
Conversion of tetrahydrofolate to 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate. Interconverts serine and glycine.
Consequences: Decreased enzyme activity, homocysteine accumulation
And
L-Methylfolate:
MTHFR and MTRR

It also says take TMG which is a methyl donor even though previously said avoid methyl donors.
BHMT08
Methylates homocysteine to methionine
Consequences: Downregulation

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#4 9lives

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 06:04 PM

Nutrahacker is an interesting tool, but frequently contradicts itself. A proper genetic profile interpretation is the best way to go. 2nd best is a web-based tool called Strategene. As with Nutrahacker, you upload your 23andMe raw data to it.


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#5 John250

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 07:10 PM

Nutrahacker is an interesting tool, but frequently contradicts itself. A proper genetic profile interpretation is the best way to go. 2nd best is a web-based tool called Strategene. As with Nutrahacker, you upload your 23andMe raw data to it.


Excellent I’ll check it out thanks

#6 John250

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 09:35 PM

I ordered Strategene and it appears I need hydroxocobalamin, adenosylcobalamin, p-5-p, (6S)-5-Methylfolate) and molybdenum.

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by John250, 04 July 2018 - 09:40 PM.


#7 9lives

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 11:42 PM

Possibly. Optimal B12 levels are of course key to good health, and the MTRR gene recycles B12 with methylfolate as a cofactor. Most folks do well supplementing with methylcobalamin, but those other 2 forms can be beneficial depending on your situation. Where did you see those called out?

 

P5P and NAC for supporting detoxification pathways given those polymorphisms. You may not need molybdenum if your multi-vitamin contains it. Most importantly, you have to look at your symptoms to decide what's necessary. If you're not having symptoms related to toxicity, brain fog, etc., that should factor into your dosage. Or whether you supplement with these things at all.

 

So far the main symptoms you highlighted are related to mental health ... traits of ADHD, anxiety, depression. Since you use that terminology, I take it you don't have a formal diagnosis? But here's where the genetic profile can tell you part of the story. MAOB +/+ is associated with lower MAOB activity in the brain, which degrades dopamine and your "fight or flight" hormones. Could lead to those symptoms you mentioned. From here you might think about seeing a doctor for a neurotransmitter test and getting a proper diagnosis. These days there are supplements out there to rebalance brain chemistry. Naturopathic doctors are more likely to recommend that route. There's no reason you should need a prescription - especially if your symptoms are mild.

 

 



#8 John250

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 01:23 AM

Possibly. Optimal B12 levels are of course key to good health, and the MTRR gene recycles B12 with methylfolate as a cofactor. Most folks do well supplementing with methylcobalamin, but those other 2 forms can be beneficial depending on your situation. Where did you see those called out?

P5P and NAC for supporting detoxification pathways given those polymorphisms. You may not need molybdenum if your multi-vitamin contains it. Most importantly, you have to look at your symptoms to decide what's necessary. If you're not having symptoms related to toxicity, brain fog, etc., that should factor into your dosage. Or whether you supplement with these things at all.

So far the main symptoms you highlighted are related to mental health ... traits of ADHD, anxiety, depression. Since you use that terminology, I take it you don't have a formal diagnosis? But here's where the genetic profile can tell you part of the story. MAOB +/+ is associated with lower MAOB activity in the brain, which degrades dopamine and your "fight or flight" hormones. Could lead to those symptoms you mentioned. From here you might think about seeing a doctor for a neurotransmitter test and getting a proper diagnosis. These days there are supplements out there to rebalance brain chemistry. Naturopathic doctors are more likely to recommend that route. There's no reason you should need a prescription - especially if your symptoms are mild.

What’s odd is I have very high B 12 serum levels. I think they were close to 2000 and the range was something along 200 to 900. B 12 serum is a poor indicator so I got a MMA and homocysteine Test. MMA in range slightly in lower end. Same with homocysteine which I assume is optimal. For MaoB I’d assume my Vyvanse, Lexapro and Abilify takes care of that but might need frequent adjusting.

Edited by John250, 05 July 2018 - 01:24 AM.


#9 Artificiality

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 09:24 PM

I tried to play with my genetic information to no avail for months. 

 

A lot of those symptoms went away for me when I cut out all supplements and went on an elimination diet of just beef. 

I slowly started adding things back after a few weeks, such as white rice and other low antigen foods to see what I was reacting to.

Anxiety went away

bloat went away

energy levels evened out

sleep got better

for the first time in so long I don't have to struggle to get out of bed in the morning.

Gonna have blood work to see if I'm lacking any nutrients but so far this is the best I've felt since I was a teenager.


Edited by Artificiality, 15 July 2018 - 09:24 PM.

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#10 dazed1

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 03:35 AM

I would drop this

 

Ginkgo Bilboa 120mg 2x/day
Creatine NAC 600mg 1-2/xday(vitaminshoppe)

Monohydrate 5-10g/day

 

And add this,

 

Benfotiamine

Myoinositol

Methylcobalamin

Methylfolate

P5P


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#11 AceNZ

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 09:25 PM

With such a complex regimen, and without access to your medical history and more info about your goals, it's difficult to make meaningful suggestions.

 

In an otherwise healthy person, I would be surprised if such a heavy mix didn't result in all sorts of biochemical havoc -- and even more so when combined with the prescription meds. I think taking so many herbal compounds is a bit worrisome, given the large number of secondary compounds present in herbs. My initial reaction is that your supplement list could be trimmed back dramatically.

 

Regarding "mutations," do you mean SNPs, or do you have lab test results? I would strongly caution against treating SNPs.

 

The only other thing I can say is that if it was me, I would do what I've done multiple times over the years: wean myself off of everything I can, and then slowly add them back in, at the rate of about one supplement per week, being careful to eliminate the ones that make me feel worse along the way.


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#12 daramantus

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 11:12 PM

Most of the things you think you need, you don't



#13 unbreakable

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 11:17 AM

I would probably ask my doctor if lisinopril could be replaced with telmisartan (= ARB & partial PPAR-gamma agonist).

Do you know if your hemoglobin is increased because of the hormone replacement therapy.

5mg Lexapro seems like quite a low dose, even 10mg might not provide max. benefit.


Edited by unbreakable, 09 July 2019 - 11:21 AM.


#14 John250

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 01:32 AM

I would probably ask my doctor if lisinopril could be replaced with telmisartan (= ARB & partial PPAR-gamma agonist).
Do you know if your hemoglobin is increased because of the hormone replacement therapy.
5mg Lexapro seems like quite a low dose, even 10mg might not provide max. benefit.


Hemoglobin is increased due to testosterone. Only method to keep it under control is phlebotomies but many doctors recommend them far too often which results in depleted ferritin which has a ton of negatives. I donated every 6weeks about 4-5 times it took over a year to replenish my ferritin and the fatigue was terrible. It's a double edgeded sword with testosterone however there was a study showing testosterone and high altitude induced secondary erythrocytosis does not pose the same health risks of induced secondary erythrocytosis via OSA, COPD and smoking. It talked about the reasoning being platelet related. Testosterone replacement therapy and people living at very high altitudes(many with a hematocrit over 60) still had normal platelet levels despite high hemoglobin,hematocrit and RBC's whereas the others had high platelets as well. I went through about 8yrs of blood work and found my platelets were always good and in the normal range not even elevated over the halfway mark despite my higher red blood cells and hemoglobin/hematocrit.

I've been on Lexapro for probably 7 years ranging from 5mg-20g and the past few years I noticed it doesn't even really work anymore. I'm going to a new doctor to talk about changing it to potentially something else.

In fact I actually just started Agomelatine for it's melatonergic agonist benefits on restoring circadian rhythm as lexapro amongst other ssri's can negatively impact it. But more so because of it's 5-HT2c antagonism as that increases DA and NE in the frontal cortex vs limbic system which seems beneficial for ADHD/OCD.

I don't have much faith in doctors unless you get lucky with a good one or perhaps a medical director so they are at least up to date with the current medical field. So really I just order what I need.

Pertaining to the lisinopril it has very little sides I've expierenced none but it's not extremely effective at reducing BP on it's own. It's commonly augmented with HCTZ and I noticed it did help more but HCTZ has more sides and effects gene expression more so I don't use it. Actually 5mg Nebivolol with 20mg lisinopril worked amazing and nebivolol had the greatest impact on lowering my resting heart rate from high 80's(due to amphetamines) to mid 70's and I've had no side effects from the nebivolol. I like how it's different from most beta-blockers and works nitric oxide induced vasodialation.

I will have to look more in depth on the PPAR-gamma agonise as the insulin regulation seems beneficial as that can control dopamine output however it seems the trade-off when activating PPAR is deactivating AMPK. I will have to research this more as my main goal is still and feta mean tolerance so whereas the insulin regulation benefiting dopamine from PPAR seems great I'm not sure what impact that will have on AMPK and what impact that will have on AMPH tolerance. Correct me if I'm wrong but when ATP is depleted that in turn activates AMPK which activates energy. PPAR agonism attuenuates ATP depletion so wouldn't that in turn effect AMPK? Thanks!

https://www.ncbi.nlm...?ncbi_mmode=std

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2435341/
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#15 unbreakable

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 06:34 AM

To be honest I can't answer your (last) question, it would be too speculative and theoretical.

 

I don't think agomelatine is an awesome choice on it's own, but taken with bupropion or amphetamine this might be a very powerful combo.

 

Nebivolol is the beta blocker I would always prefer, because of it's ability to improve nitric oxid, endothelial function / flow-mediated dilation and because in contrast to old beta blockers it doesn't have bothersome side  effects like ED (might acutally improve that because of  it's action on nitric oxide).

 

There has always been some concern about selective beta blockers in combination with strong stimulants like amphetamine or cocaine (especially in case of overdose), because of "unopposed alpha-stimulation", but I don't believe too much in that.

 

Carvedilol is also a very good beta blocker that shouldn't have that theoretical problem, because it's also an alpha-blocker.

 

You can google "telmisartan lef.org" and read the article "best drug to treat hypertension" if you want to find out more.

 

To reduce amph tolerance I would look into NAC and glutamate / nmda antagonists like memantine



#16 John250

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 07:40 AM

I'll check that link out. Thanks

Yes that's true agomelatine on its own might not be that effective and in many studies it showed when augmented with ssris it worked even better. I still currently take 10mg Lexapro and XXmg amphetamine(more than I should). A couple months ago I ran agomelatine at 25 mg a day for around 16 days and stopped because I noticed nothing from it. At first I was thinking the duration was too short but I went off its description of acting rapidly so I figured I would have noticed something. However dosage seems to be 25 to 50 mg so I'm giving it a second round at 50 mg because I am around 240 lbs fairly lean so if it's a weight-dependant drug at all then that's probably why I didn't notice much from the 25 mg.

Pretty much no OTC supplements have helped with reducing my amphetamine tolerance. I take very high doses of different types of magnesium and I've used NAC amongst many other supplements.

NMDA antagonism plays a big role but I think many other factors need more research especially ppar and hdac inhibition. I may try some high dosed Oleamide(OEA) and Palmitoylethanoleamide(PEA) as they are natural PPAR-alpha agonists. The PPAR-gamma agonism seems most mentioned for addiction but it seems PPAR-Alpha protects against depleted tyrosine hydroxylase(TH) from amphetamine which is often overlooked as DAT depletion is what's most often mentioned. And it appears OEA and PEA prevent the loss of TH from methamphetamine so I'd assume they would also prevent the loss of TH from amphetamine as it's pretty well documented that amphetamine also drastically depletes TH. I don't think there's too many studies on the role of tyrosine hydroxylase's effect on addiction, tolerance,sensitization,etc..but it's definitely not healthy.


And for HDAC inhibition science has sucked at coming out with a good inhibitor without side effects because many are chemotherapy based or antiviral. Valproic Acid seems to be a strong HDAC inhibitor but the sides outweigh the pros. The only natural somewhat effective HDAC inhibitor seems to be sodium butyrate(tributyrin) but I think something stronger is needed to combat histone deacetylase's role. Histone deacetylase is pretty complicated and I don't have my head wrapped nearly around it to know much at all yet but with amphetamines there is somehow a correlation with the HD receptors that involve lysine(most of them HDAC1-11 I believe. And it has something to do with
FOS and JUN/AP-1 transcription which is wayyyyy over my head bu FOS is the brains main pathway for addiction so I would think by now science would have this figured out or at least have some more leads on pharmaceutical management for FOS.

Amphetamine has the second highest expression(first being cocaine) on the FOS gene (more so than methamphetamine) and it's prescribed left and right yet there is no FDA-approved drug for withdrawal management. This is very bizarre to me as opiates have methadone,suboxone,etc.. Benzodiazepines have Gabapentin,Balcofen,etc.. But nothing for AMPH. There definitely has to be a correlation with fos expression because the former drugs seem to have much less impact on fos expression than the psychostimulants.



For some reason I did not respond well at all to memantine in fact it seemed to exacerbate my negatives especially drug seeking behavior and some brain fog. No other natural NMDA antagonist nor dextromethorpan caused the sides I got from memantine which is odd.

To be honest I can't answer your (last) question, it would be too speculative and theoretical.

I don't think agomelatine is an awesome choice on it's own, but taken with bupropion or amphetamine this might be a very powerful combo.

Nebivolol is the beta blocker I would always prefer, because of it's ability to improve nitric oxid, endothelial function / flow-mediated dilation and because in contrast to old beta blockers it doesn't have bothersome side effects like ED (might acutally improve that because of it's action on nitric oxide).

There has always been some concern about selective beta blockers in combination with strong stimulants like amphetamine or cocaine (especially in case of overdose), because of "unopposed alpha-stimulation", but I don't believe too much in that.

Carvedilol is also a very good beta blocker that shouldn't have that theoretical problem, because it's also an alpha-blocker.

You can google "telmisartan lef.org" and read the article "best drug to treat hypertension" if you want to find out more.

To reduce amph tolerance I would look into NAC and glutamate / nmda antagonists like memantine


Edited by John250, 10 July 2019 - 07:45 AM.


#17 Keizo

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 08:44 AM

That's a long list of stuff. If you want to make it easy remove all the herbs, for various reasons but mostly because they probably have unquantifiable or hard-to-predict effects on things like blood coagulation and who knows.

If you eat lots of meat I imagine the creatine might not be doing much, who knows tho. 

 

And yeah, amphetamine (or methylphenidate) basically tends to have no medically significant withdrawal symptoms as far as I know, maybe low mood and tiredness for some days or weeks. Opioids etc can cause things like hormonal disruption (low testosterone) and severe pain and probably a bunch of terrible psychological states I'd rather not familiarize myself with. I'm not sure what is the most dangerous or bothersome part of opiod withdrawal etc, but it does seem like it distrupts the human system much more than stimulants. 

 

As far as combating tolerance to stimulants, I think the biggest thing is probably using low enough doses so it doesn't become a psychological concern. I haven't had too much experience with prescribed d-amphetamine or similar, but with Ritalin, and all I can say is at 30 mg a day I don't really have tolerance to most of the important effects, it's very obvious to me (over time) that the impact is rather big even when I've taken it for day after day and stopped noticing or stopped getting some of the more obvious effects. The things that do disappear over time after starting to take it (say after a break) is increased talkativeness, and feeling good or feeling tense and feeling bad, mostly just all the extreme good and bad effects which don't necessarily relate to say mental performance or overall performance. Like one example to illustrate what I mean is my Fasoracetam experience, that thing was way more effective than any prescription stimulant for studying and doing monotonous reading, but I barely felt it, it was in hindsight that I noticed how much it changed the way I acted by noticing myself basically becoming totally involved in my studies which has never happened outside of fasoracetam use. If I took a walk I'd be doing math in my head without thinking "I have to do this".

 

Then again I've taken cerebrolysin cycles here and there for months every year, which I do suspect makes me more sensitive to stimulants (and probably racetams and whatnot) to various extents. But basically amphetamines are notorious for having steep tolerance issues to some of the effects (I imagine most of the really useful effects can last indefinitely however), there's to my knowledge no way of making every day like the first day you took it, the dopamine systems are for whatever reason very flexible in this regard, it just adjusts back and forth depending on if you take breaks and how much you take. But I would guess that the lower the dose the less tolerance and the better chance of the drug even having some permanent positive effects (even after quitting), but this is all speculation on my part. 

 

But to be honest if you are taking something like d-amphetamine then I don't really see the point in adding stuff that is vaguely stimulating like tyrosine or herbs like Jiaogulan or ginseng or whatever people take,  to me I'd worry about that just confusing my interpretation of the actual medicine. Because for example it might create extra up and downs in terms of stimulation during the day or during whatever time-frame, and that can negatively or positively impact how you feel. Like I considered going on short acting Ritalin only (regular tablets), some time ago, because the Concerta was making me not notice much in terms of change when taking the capsules, and it was really annoying, so now I'm on some ER ritalin capsule plus 10mg of immediate release tablets which I feel is pretty good in terms of being able to tell that the methylphenidate does something every day but with enough hours of significant effect to make it clearly useful to take.

 

 

Most supplements suck, by the way, that's my experience, and I fail to see why it'd be worthwhile to try and figure out if something has some benefit or not if it doesn't have really great potential. Do you feel really mentally ill? that's the reason I used to experiment with supplements, I felt like my brain was toast and done for, and that seems like a reasonable thing to do. Well turns out none of the supplements (well vitamin D3 did have significant effects, and glycine too I guess) did anything for my problems in a way that was convenient or at all obviously useful or sustainable, but the pharmaceuticals did work very well (cerebrolysin for problems associated with protracted benzo withdrawal (like not being able to speak or think very well, flat mood), and methylphenidate just for general living, for example).

 

As a non-medical professional I'd put you on 5mg d-methamphetamine per day, keep the vitamin D, flush everything else that isn't medically necessary, and see how you feel in 2 weeks. Good luck.

 


Edited by Keizo, 10 July 2019 - 09:12 AM.


#18 WillNitschke

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:39 AM

I'd be curious to know what your blood work looks like. I.e., are you actually poisoning yourself? Just one of the zillion things you're taking 10,000IU of vitamin D. Possible effects of too much vitamin D include harm to the arteries and heart and/or kidney damage. 10,000IU over a prolonged period of time might be OK or it might not be. Have you had a vitamin D blood test done to see what your levels are?

 


Edited by WillNitschke, 16 July 2019 - 10:39 AM.


#19 John250

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 07:15 AM

I'd be curious to know what your blood work looks like. I.e., are you actually poisoning yourself? Just one of the zillion things you're taking 10,000IU of vitamin D. Possible effects of too much vitamin D include harm to the arteries and heart and/or kidney damage. 10,000IU over a prolonged period of time might be OK or it might not be. Have you had a vitamin D blood test done to see what your levels are?


10,000iu Vitamin D isn’t that much. I take around 20,000iu now. Last bloodwork I was:

Vitamin D, 25 OH, total- 86 Range 30-100ng/mL

All my bloodwork is normal except elevated hemoglobin from testosterone replacement therapy and alt/ast very slightly elevated which is common in athletes. But other than that everything is in range and that’s including several echocardiograms, a cardiac MRI, liver ultrasound and brain mri(back in 2014).

#20 John250

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 07:29 AM

That's a long list of stuff. If you want to make it easy remove all the herbs, for various reasons but mostly because they probably have unquantifiable or hard-to-predict effects on things like blood coagulation and who knows.
If you eat lots of meat I imagine the creatine might not be doing much, who knows tho.

And yeah, amphetamine (or methylphenidate) basically tends to have no medically significant withdrawal symptoms as far as I know, maybe low mood and tiredness for some days or weeks. Opioids etc can cause things like hormonal disruption (low testosterone) and severe pain and probably a bunch of terrible psychological states I'd rather not familiarize myself with. I'm not sure what is the most dangerous or bothersome part of opiod withdrawal etc, but it does seem like it distrupts the human system much more than stimulants.

As far as combating tolerance to stimulants, I think the biggest thing is probably using low enough doses so it doesn't become a psychological concern. I haven't had too much experience with prescribed d-amphetamine or similar, but with Ritalin, and all I can say is at 30 mg a day I don't really have tolerance to most of the important effects, it's very obvious to me (over time) that the impact is rather big even when I've taken it for day after day and stopped noticing or stopped getting some of the more obvious effects. The things that do disappear over time after starting to take it (say after a break) is increased talkativeness, and feeling good or feeling tense and feeling bad, mostly just all the extreme good and bad effects which don't necessarily relate to say mental performance or overall performance. Like one example to illustrate what I mean is my Fasoracetam experience, that thing was way more effective than any prescription stimulant for studying and doing monotonous reading, but I barely felt it, it was in hindsight that I noticed how much it changed the way I acted by noticing myself basically becoming totally involved in my studies which has never happened outside of fasoracetam use. If I took a walk I'd be doing math in my head without thinking "I have to do this".

Then again I've taken cerebrolysin cycles here and there for months every year, which I do suspect makes me more sensitive to stimulants (and probably racetams and whatnot) to various extents. But basically amphetamines are notorious for having steep tolerance issues to some of the effects (I imagine most of the really useful effects can last indefinitely however), there's to my knowledge no way of making every day like the first day you took it, the dopamine systems are for whatever reason very flexible in this regard, it just adjusts back and forth depending on if you take breaks and how much you take. But I would guess that the lower the dose the less tolerance and the better chance of the drug even having some permanent positive effects (even after quitting), but this is all speculation on my part.

But to be honest if you are taking something like d-amphetamine then I don't really see the point in adding stuff that is vaguely stimulating like tyrosine or herbs like Jiaogulan or ginseng or whatever people take, to me I'd worry about that just confusing my interpretation of the actual medicine. Because for example it might create extra up and downs in terms of stimulation during the day or during whatever time-frame, and that can negatively or positively impact how you feel. Like I considered going on short acting Ritalin only (regular tablets), some time ago, because the Concerta was making me not notice much in terms of change when taking the capsules, and it was really annoying, so now I'm on some ER ritalin capsule plus 10mg of immediate release tablets which I feel is pretty good in terms of being able to tell that the methylphenidate does something every day but with enough hours of significant effect to make it clearly useful to take.


Most supplements suck, by the way, that's my experience, and I fail to see why it'd be worthwhile to try and figure out if something has some benefit or not if it doesn't have really great potential. Do you feel really mentally ill? that's the reason I used to experiment with supplements, I felt like my brain was toast and done for, and that seems like a reasonable thing to do. Well turns out none of the supplements (well vitamin D3 did have significant effects, and glycine too I guess) did anything for my problems in a way that was convenient or at all obviously useful or sustainable, but the pharmaceuticals did work very well (cerebrolysin for problems associated with protracted benzo withdrawal (like not being able to speak or think very well, flat mood), and methylphenidate just for general living, for example).

As a non-medical professional I'd put you on 5mg d-methamphetamine per day, keep the vitamin D, flush everything else that isn't medically necessary, and see how you feel in 2 weeks. Good luck.


I definitely agree about many of those not working while I’m still “on” amphetamines. I’ve ditched quite a bit. My new regime is now:
All standard vitamins/minerals with extra VitC/magnesium/zinc
CBD Isolate, Ubiquinol, R-ALA, CDP Choline, baby aspirin, Salidroside, 6g omegas(2:1 DHA/EPA), EpiCor, Tru Niagen, pterostilbene, and at night 500mg UMP, 25mg Agomelatine and some taurine/Tyrosine(after amph is out of my system).

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#21 WillNitschke

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 08:01 AM

10,000iu Vitamin D isn’t that much. I take around 20,000iu now. Last bloodwork I was:

Vitamin D, 25 OH, total- 86 Range 30-100ng/mL

All my bloodwork is normal except elevated hemoglobin from testosterone replacement therapy and alt/ast very slightly elevated which is common in athletes. But other than that everything is in range and that’s including several echocardiograms, a cardiac MRI, liver ultrasound and brain mri(back in 2014).

 

86 is fine. Even 150 is fine. Interesting you're taking such a high dose and you're only at 86. I'm at 96 on 2000iu a day. Goes to show there is a lot of natural variability. Just keep testing for it.







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