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Tackling ADHD induced(?) lack of motivation

adhd methylphenidate

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#181 CWF1986

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 05:24 PM

1. Yes, Lsd micro-dosing is nonesense, I just had a dude yesterday want me to do some for some random reason. Was pretty fun because they always seem to implicate the notion that I'm some type of druggy which is funny really. If you really want enlightenment then do things that will enlighten you. You don't need LSD to get to those next levels of understanding unless your neurotypical and have bad capacity for creativity which doesn't seem to be the issue in your case.  Anyways, I've noticed you keep mentioning selegiline, what are it's purposes exactly? I find that when I eat a clean diet. I'm pretty decent with my work but the concerta seems to have negligible effect at this point tbh. Then again, I had awful anxiety dancing yesterday was pretty frustrating.  Anyways,  if you have lots of energy just exercize like a machine and do exercise until your exhausted. My issue is I have thoughts that go in my head for hours and hours almost like obsessive thoughts that won't go away and CBT, doesn't do much for it. Almost to the point that it hurts my head. So I'm still in the process of working on this as well. 

2. In relationship to the medication efficiency, I don't think it'll really get much better until the FDA or doctors actually design drugs that target the areas more specifically target the area of point of performance without effecting the rest of the brain. Then again, we don't even have that level of the understanding of the brain yet, we is very frustrating because I'd like to live a normal life already. It's frustrating because one day I have amazing social then I'll say something dumb and then I'm becoming aware of it then the next day the meds lobotomize me. It's two very stark realities that one has to come to terms with I suppose. I'm hoping there is a better way. It seems unclear at this point, that one has to choose.  Then again going broke with impulsiivty is no good either. Keep me updated on selegiline.

 

TBH, I don't really have anything to add to the conversation your having.  But I have noticed that your posts have become more organized, cogent, and understandable since I first saw your various posts many months ago.  I'm not sure what you've done or if you're aware of having done anything over that time contributes to that.  I just thought I'd throw in my 0.02c.



#182 floweryriddle

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 11:35 PM

Anyways, I've noticed you keep mentioning selegiline, what are it's purposes exactly?

 

Selegiline is a selective MAO-B inhibitor. MAO-B degrades dopamine. The theory is that ADHD has a lot to do with a imbalance of neurotransmitters, mainly norepinephrine and dopamine. Knocking out MAO-B will leave you with more dopamine. 

↑ That's the main reason I'm using it.

 

Other effects are that since MAO-B is gone, Stimulants such as Concerta will be potentiated. You can take a good amount less Concerta for a equal effect. 

Then there are the neuroprotective properties and longevity points that Selegiline contributes to. 

You can also combine Phenylalanine with Selegiline for more antidepressant effects 

 

L-deprenyl plus L-phenylalanine in the treatment of depression: https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/6425455

How Selegiline Protects Your Brain and Keeps You Young: https://blog.bulletp...line-longevity/



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#183 MichaelFocus22

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Posted 21 April 2019 - 04:19 PM

Selegiline is a selective MAO-B inhibitor. MAO-B degrades dopamine. The theory is that ADHD has a lot to do with a imbalance of neurotransmitters, mainly norepinephrine and dopamine. Knocking out MAO-B will leave you with more dopamine. 

↑ That's the main reason I'm using it.

 

Other effects are that since MAO-B is gone, Stimulants such as Concerta will be potentiated. You can take a good amount less Concerta for a equal effect. 

Then there are the neuroprotective properties and longevity points that Selegiline contributes to. 

You can also combine Phenylalanine with Selegiline for more antidepressant effects 

 

L-deprenyl plus L-phenylalanine in the treatment of depression: https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/6425455

How Selegiline Protects Your Brain and Keeps You Young: https://blog.bulletp...line-longevity/

 

1. Hmm, seems interesting I could probably get some pretty easily from my new psychiatrist who actually knows what he's talking about for once. I might consider it sense, I've been having problems with the tolerance or unless it's working I'm just not aware of it. I've had lots of paradoxical side-effects such as 18mg concerta, being significantly more effective while 27 mg not as much so. Then again, I'm not as much of a zombie which I don't mind.  However, their are even issues with points of performance that it should be correcting, when In fact I seem to perform worse in certain modalities of academics, when in reality it should be performing which is something I've never really experienced before. It could, simply just be placebo but I've taken it all this week and the effects seem subtle, so it's hard to tell. Interestingly enough, my multiple choice scores seem  a bit higher while math ability for testing decreases proportionately. From an academic perspective, most of my metrics were basically the same, So I'm pretty sure stimulants do not increase academic ability at all rather, it should increase your latent raw abilities by allowing you to sustain yourself towards  a task into the future for a delayed gratification reward. So, I will probably investigate to it, until I find the correct raw dosage to allow sustainable levels of income.  

2. In other news, if you follow the ADD literature, you know it's not that simple as a chemical imbalance, most of the information of the chemical imbalance theory, is out of date.  ADHD literature indicates that their are physical abnormalities and delays of developmental functioning in multiple areas of the brain such as; the nuclues accubens, the RAS(Reticular activating system), pons appears to be impaired, cerebellum has coordination issue, hippocampus short-term episodic memory isn't correctly registering instructions or eliciting it to the prefrontal cortex, so that your doing what you know. We also, know that their are multiple impairments of the D2, D3, D4 receptors and their is a possible genetic component along with nicotine. In 2 rat studies they found that the maternal mother rat, had infected it's baby with ADD like symptoms when exposed to long sustained periods of nicotine that went through the body. So, we definietly need more advances in targeting specific receptors or tailor made medication, that doesn't lobotomize you.  For my case, it's of no surprise why I have ADD. My maternal egg donor had congenital down-syndrome or an IQ of 70, thankfully it wasn't genetic.  Anyways, I may get some selegiline so I can taper off to 18 MG concerta. I'm still speculating on 3-4-3-4. Which has prevented tolerance issues but it's hard to tell if it causes a shock to dopamine receptors. I just wanted to clarify on the ADD part. Hopefully, their is a better treatment one day. Probably not in my life-time unfortunately.

 

 

                   /TLDR Addressing Of ADD treatment/Adhd-Literature, May Get selegiline at some oint.



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#184 cat-nips

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 07:17 PM

Hi guys :)

 

Been a bit preoccupied lately but wanted to stop by and say a quick hi.   My daughter was listening to an ASMR channel on youTube the other night.  20 min in, she was passed out, where I was just uncomfortable and felt weird.  It's both sensual and uncomfortable and strange and certainly doesn't induce sleep in me :)  Not really something I'd be looking to replicate though on a regular basis. 

 

Flowery, your Abilify experience was similar to what I've heard from others.  Did you stop the Tia?  

 

Drew: Research the dopamine response curve.  Apparently for some it's not a linear upwards path with higher doses and developing tolerance.  There is a point where it starts to impair functioning or make things worse for some in testing.  I think you mentioned Tourettes before so that could also be interfering with a standard response as both conditions stem from a dysregulation in that system.  I also remember reading about an association with those with comorbid Tourettes and ADHD being contraindicated for Dexedrine.  I don't remember where, sorry, but my point was that if Concerta is acting finicky, and Amps make things worse, perhaps another solution would be to try a different class of med to augment the Concerta like Guanfacine, which you mentioned, or an AP.  Poly-pharmacy probably doesn't sit well with you, but treatments aren't perfect and if the meds make you feel lobotomized, you have to start trying to take matters into your own hands.  The ways you do that, of course, are highly individualized, and where trouble starts brewing for many. 

 

Agreed that your posts have become more organized and coherent.  You may feel the same and think the same thoughts, but they're coming out in a more understandable way.  As far as a genetic component - my daughter exhibits strong signs.  She's still a star student, so it will never be caught by the schools unless I let it get out of hand and hers is probably a mild case.  The criteria that you listed were very good descriptions actually.  Made me feel bad about myself, lol.  Also makes me recognize the same symptoms she weakly displays.  It breaks my heart and enrages me at the same time.  Currently she only takes high dose fish oil and she actually does better after a few months of daily dosing.   

 

CFW: So glad Wellbutrin is going well for you.  It's easier to stop and apparently safer.  Really wish it worked for me.  Just turns me into a hostile bitch, unfortunately.  Had some friends who loved it though and reported exact opposite effects.  Thanks for the Faso report.  It's on my next list.

 

Playing a bit of devils advocate here but, actually LSD microdosing is being studied currently as an effective treatment for a lot of things.  It's being used in micro-doses as a nootropic device to aid creativity in some programming circles.  I don't think sustainability is really an issue as it's not an addictive substance, per se.  Meaning the effects would be lasting and you would probably do it for a short period in micro-doses and stop and continue to have longer lasting effects.   At microdoses, the psychedelics are largely absent and you don't "trip", but just experience heightened creativity.  I imagine though, that safely administering or taking those microdoses would be an issue as it would be easy to take too much and freak out.  Just speculating though, as it's not actually something I've tried.   

 

Currently still managing at just 15mg Dexedrine in the AM and a Racetam stack in the afternoon.  Everything else is just supplemental vitamins/nutrients because my diet is less than ideal at times.  Have noticed though that with continued treatment of stims, my mood deteriorates over time and fluctuates more than usual.  Hence if I were to try to change anything right now, it would probably be the addition of something with antidepressant properties like Tianeptine.  Looked into Moclobemide at one point, but since I did not respond well to Selegiline, its' not something I'm looking to try.  

 

Hope everyone is well!  Will be away for a few weeks on a cruise with the fam, but will check in again when I'm back.  Best, Cat

 

 

  

 

 


Edited by cat-nips, 22 April 2019 - 07:57 PM.

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#185 MichaelFocus22

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 12:59 AM

Hi guys :)

 

Been a bit preoccupied lately but wanted to stop by and say a quick hi.   My daughter was listening to an ASMR channel on youTube the other night.  20 min in, she was passed out, where I was just uncomfortable and felt weird.  It's both sensual and uncomfortable and strange and certainly doesn't induce sleep in me :)  Not really something I'd be looking to replicate though on a regular basis. 

 

Flowery, your Abilify experience was similar to what I've heard from others.  Did you stop the Tia?  

 

Drew: Research the dopamine response curve.  Apparently for some it's not a linear upwards path with higher doses and developing tolerance.  There is a point where it starts to impair functioning or make things worse for some in testing.  I think you mentioned Tourettes before so that could also be interfering with a standard response as both conditions stem from a dysregulation in that system.  I also remember reading about an association with those with comorbid Tourettes and ADHD being contraindicated for Dexedrine.  I don't remember where, sorry, but my point was that if Concerta is acting finicky, and Amps make things worse, perhaps another solution would be to try a different class of med to augment the Concerta like Guanfacine, which you mentioned, or an AP.  Poly-pharmacy probably doesn't sit well with you, but treatments aren't perfect and if the meds make you feel lobotomized, you have to start trying to take matters into your own hands.  The ways you do that, of course, are highly individualized, and where trouble starts brewing for many. 

 

Agreed that your posts have become more organized and coherent.  You may feel the same and think the same thoughts, but they're coming out in a more understandable way.  As far as a genetic component - my daughter exhibits strong signs.  She's still a star student, so it will never be caught by the schools unless I let it get out of hand and hers is probably a mild case.  The criteria that you listed were very good descriptions actually.  Made me feel bad about myself, lol.  Also makes me recognize the same symptoms she weakly displays.  It breaks my heart and enrages me at the same time.  Currently she only takes high dose fish oil and she actually does better after a few months of daily dosing.   

 

CFW: So glad Wellbutrin is going well for you.  It's easier to stop and apparently safer.  Really wish it worked for me.  Just turns me into a hostile bitch, unfortunately.  Had some friends who loved it though and reported exact opposite effects.  Thanks for the Faso report.  It's on my next list.

 

Playing a bit of devils advocate here but, actually LSD microdosing is being studied currently as an effective treatment for a lot of things.  It's being used in micro-doses as a nootropic device to aid creativity in some programming circles.  I don't think sustainability is really an issue as it's not an addictive substance, per se.  Meaning the effects would be lasting and you would probably do it for a short period in micro-doses and stop and continue to have longer lasting effects.   At microdoses, the psychedelics are largely absent and you don't "trip", but just experience heightened creativity.  I imagine though, that safely administering or taking those microdoses would be an issue as it would be easy to take too much and freak out.  Just speculating though, as it's not actually something I've tried.   

 

Currently still managing at just 15mg Dexedrine in the AM and a Racetam stack in the afternoon.  Everything else is just supplemental vitamins/nutrients because my diet is less than ideal at times.  Have noticed though that with continued treatment of stims, my mood deteriorates over time and fluctuates more than usual.  Hence if I were to try to change anything right now, it would probably be the addition of something with antidepressant properties like Tianeptine.  Looked into Moclobemide at one point, but since I did not respond well to Selegiline, its' not something I'm looking to try.  

 

Hope everyone is well!  Will be away for a few weeks on a cruise with the fam, but will check in again when I'm back.  Best, Cat

 

          1. I just tested 54 mg concerta and the effect was minescule or nothing at best. Most of completion time ratio's are basically the same as, if I were unmedicated assuming that the dopamine receptors reset them to a baseline level of normalization after the dose. Which is funny to say the least, because I had a different response months ago. It's probable that I will simply go for 18 since, that was much more effective it seems in being able to manage my affairs. It's probable that my brain got used to the same dose but didn't  get used to the lower dose as of yet, so I may cycle when I get 18 MG and go 3-4-3-4.  The lobotomization effect is mostly just an emotional dysregulation response. I don't really have answer for what else, should come next but I will continue titrating various doses until I find what works for me. It could be a number of things like diet, not drinking enough water, my apartment water taste like you know what and much more. I should be seeing some metric or point of performance increase somewhere relative to the baseline experience that was occurring before.  As for right now, it's just a time of management. Patience, until I get another script to test other things and hopefully I can find something I enjoy doing in this little town. I'm looking for a position where that leverages my latient outcomes but without forcing to lobotomize myself to fit in with those monkeys.  Funny enough,  my therapist reccomends I go to a group therapy to practice social talking dynamics so that I learn more tact. Finally, I found something very disturbing, I toke video of myself doing pull ups and in my head it was 25 but the outcome was 19 to 18, Demonstrating with evidence of my inability to DO what I KNOW. I was seeing the executive deficit in my own exercize routines and inability to sustain towards an outcome. I went into a fit of rage, because of it. This is probably a side-effect of concerta very likely. It annoys the hell out of me, when my progress deteriorates when I been grinding for months. I will continue to monitor this for the time being. If the outcome, is that I can socialize and be enjoyable on meds then that is ideal but it makes me paranoid & makes me feel like it's not working. Which is annoying because I spent 2 months basically battling doctors to get a script that does nothing. 

 

  2. The metric and data information appears to be inconclusive at best. Ironically, I'll still probably pull a 3.7444 depending upon what happens. Anyways, I'd reccomend you investigate more into the most organic ADD specialized diet possible Cat. If you can to find other mechanisms to mitigate the use of those stims whenever possible. I personally hate taking them anyways but I have to. I find that the better my diet, the better my point of performance becomes and my symptoms go down to a modest degree, so there appears to be something going on there as well. As for your daughter, I would intervene significantly early as possible and see if you can strengthen her executive functions as much as possible, while her brain is still developing. It's unclear to me if this is possible but anything is better than leaving one with undiagnosed ADD. As for myself, I intend to genetic burn out my ADD gene, when I procreate. I have zero desire to give another person this affliction. Interestingly enough, I've become aware of how much I actually zone out throughout the day. I counted 10 subconscious zone outs in 1 lecture, which is surprising.  Hopefully, some breakthrough comes, we really  need one.



#186 floweryriddle

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 01:46 AM

Hi guys :)

 

Been a bit preoccupied lately but wanted to stop by and say a quick hi.   My daughter was listening to an ASMR channel on youTube the other night.  20 min in, she was passed out, where I was just uncomfortable and felt weird.  It's both sensual and uncomfortable and strange and certainly doesn't induce sleep in me :)  Not really something I'd be looking to replicate though on a regular basis. 

 

Flowery, your Abilify experience was similar to what I've heard from others.  Did you stop the Tia?  

 

Drew: Research the dopamine response curve.  Apparently for some it's not a linear upwards path with higher doses and developing tolerance.  There is a point where it starts to impair functioning or make things worse for some in testing.  I think you mentioned Tourettes before so that could also be interfering with a standard response as both conditions stem from a dysregulation in that system.  I also remember reading about an association with those with comorbid Tourettes and ADHD being contraindicated for Dexedrine.  I don't remember where, sorry, but my point was that if Concerta is acting finicky, and Amps make things worse, perhaps another solution would be to try a different class of med to augment the Concerta like Guanfacine, which you mentioned, or an AP.  Poly-pharmacy probably doesn't sit well with you, but treatments aren't perfect and if the meds make you feel lobotomized, you have to start trying to take matters into your own hands.  The ways you do that, of course, are highly individualized, and where trouble starts brewing for many. 

 

Agreed that your posts have become more organized and coherent.  You may feel the same and think the same thoughts, but they're coming out in a more understandable way.  As far as a genetic component - my daughter exhibits strong signs.  She's still a star student, so it will never be caught by the schools unless I let it get out of hand and hers is probably a mild case.  The criteria that you listed were very good descriptions actually.  Made me feel bad about myself, lol.  Also makes me recognize the same symptoms she weakly displays.  It breaks my heart and enrages me at the same time.  Currently she only takes high dose fish oil and she actually does better after a few months of daily dosing.   

 

CFW: So glad Wellbutrin is going well for you.  It's easier to stop and apparently safer.  Really wish it worked for me.  Just turns me into a hostile bitch, unfortunately.  Had some friends who loved it though and reported exact opposite effects.  Thanks for the Faso report.  It's on my next list.

 

Playing a bit of devils advocate here but, actually LSD microdosing is being studied currently as an effective treatment for a lot of things.  It's being used in micro-doses as a nootropic device to aid creativity in some programming circles.  I don't think sustainability is really an issue as it's not an addictive substance, per se.  Meaning the effects would be lasting and you would probably do it for a short period in micro-doses and stop and continue to have longer lasting effects.   At microdoses, the psychedelics are largely absent and you don't "trip", but just experience heightened creativity.  I imagine though, that safely administering or taking those microdoses would be an issue as it would be easy to take too much and freak out.  Just speculating though, as it's not actually something I've tried.   

 

Currently still managing at just 15mg Dexedrine in the AM and a Racetam stack in the afternoon.  Everything else is just supplemental vitamins/nutrients because my diet is less than ideal at times.  Have noticed though that with continued treatment of stims, my mood deteriorates over time and fluctuates more than usual.  Hence if I were to try to change anything right now, it would probably be the addition of something with antidepressant properties like Tianeptine.  Looked into Moclobemide at one point, but since I did not respond well to Selegiline, its' not something I'm looking to try.  

 

Hope everyone is well!  Will be away for a few weeks on a cruise with the fam, but will check in again when I'm back.  Best, Cat

 

I dropped everything besides Concerta and Rasagiline (+ supplements) to give my brain some rest for a couple weeks and reset to somewhat baseline. 

 

Next is gonna Moclobemide though, or maybe if I feel adventurous I could dip into microdosing as well. 

I did a very small dosage test with Moclobemide (followed up a couple hours later with a low dosage of Methylphenidate, I know I know), I felt something for sure but it also pushed my heartrate higher (90-100 constantly). Blood pressure was normal though. 

Compared to when I started this thread though there is definitely improvement. My motivation is a lot better than it was previously and I procrastinate less. The mental resistance is still there though. 

 

Selegiline is a MAO-B inhibitor, Moclobemide a MAO-A inhibitor. I don't think experience with one of them will will translate to the other. Then even with medicine that acts on the same things (SSRIs, MAOIs, etc), effects can vary greatly, some are more pushing, some more sedating. 

Also worth considering Strattera. It's hit and miss but has mood stabilizing properties (was supposed to be an antidepressant at first). Strattera next to a stimulant has a very high success rate and is still one of the best things I tried. Just that my heartrate goes up when I take it made me stop it eventually. 

 

TIA is great, but with my limited experience make sure that you stick to 3x a day if you take sodium or go with sulfate which is longer lasting. Missing dosages made me emotional easily. 


Edited by floweryriddle, 23 April 2019 - 01:52 AM.

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#187 Keizo

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 03:29 AM

Reg. concerta I feel it's a tricky medication. If I recall correctly it doesn't release the substance in a straight-forward manner but more of a pulsating manner as far as timing.  I moved over to Ritalin extended release 20mg, from using 36mg concerta (and before that 27mg concerta etc). I feel over time the concerta becomes not noticeable, and that's sort of the purpose I guess. Because on a  sliding scale Ritalin tablets (IR) is always the most noticeable to me no matter how long or consistently I have used the medication, then Ritalin capsules (ER), and lastly Concerta. And of course the IR version is more prone to certain side effects including positive ones like euphoria. 

 

I certainly prefer my current regimen of 20mg ritalin er, then 10mg ir around 1-3 PM. Originally I considered moving over to only instant release, but I feel the Ritalin capsules are pretty convenient and last just the right amount of time for me (very noticeable for like 6 hours I'd say, but I'm personally inclined to believe when used chronically that some of the good effects of methylphenidate can become somewhat permanent but that's just my speculation somewhat based on experience). If I were to change anything about my scripts I'd probably try d-amphetamine again, since when I tried it the first time for a few weeks I was in a much more tense baseline and I couldn't even take 1.25mg a day without getting high BP and feeling like shit. But probably not, as far as I know MPH is slightly better when it comes to side effects like sleeplessness and appetite suppression.

 

And again for me Fasoracetam is the most effective substance when it comes to specifically studying. It's just insane how involved I consistently got when taking that and taking math, chemistry, etc, classes. If I took a walk after doing a few hours math previously I'd start going through math problems in my head all the time during the walk and it didn't feel as forced as when something like that happens when I take a stimulant. 

 

I don't do stacks of drugs, I try not to combine the most powerful substances (I don't do ritalin+fasoracetam, or if I do cerebrolysin at most I take 5mg doses or ritalin rarely), and I don't suggest anyone else combine a bunch of psychoactive stuff either, but there are 2 things that might be worthwhile:

 

Mildronate 

Fulvic Acid (can buy it pure in the US under the name wujinsan and in europe its called pureandfulvic or something like that. Jarrow also sells a shilajit that does have similar effects IME but that's got a bunch of minerals/metals in it.)

those are both somewhat stimulating and they might potentially help with some of the side-effects that stimulants can cause, in particular poor bloodflow. From experience mildronate and fulvic acid on their own cause noticeable increase in blood flow to fingers etc.

Recently I've combined my Methylphenidate with small doses of Mildronate (250mg-500mg in the morning), and it's worked very well. Due to various factors I haven't been able to use it for more than a month or so in a good manner together with the MPH. One being tooth problems another being surgery and yet another interference is quitting/starting oral tobacco which causes all kinds of tension and annoyance in combination with these other stimulating substances.


Edited by Keizo, 23 April 2019 - 03:37 AM.

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#188 Keizo

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 04:11 AM

In short this is what I imagine an optimal routine for me is

---------

Usual period

30mg methlyphenidate per day (Ritalin ER and IR) combined with 500mg Mildronate.

no time restriction

---------

Studying period

if studying to be taken for at most 28 days in a row, long periods or high doses may cause significant muscle tension (neck, specifically) and subsequent drop in mental performance

Fasoracetam circa 50mg/day 

should not be combined with nicotine (muscle/neck tension becomes more likely)

may or may not try this with fulvic acid or mildronate. I have not used fasoracetam for years.

--------------------

Replenishing period

2 months per year, for general function, anti-anxiety, anti-stress, and anti-depressant effects, also increases stimulant sensitivity for a period of time (mostly in a good way)

Cerebrolysin 20 days per month, 5ml IM, 2 days on 1 off. I have used this since late 2014 I believe, some effects are very much long-lasting. Be warned it might cause increased sensitivity to stimulants, permanently.

only reason I limit it to 2 months per year is the effects are permanent/semi-permanent, it's expensive, and too much might make me too sensitive to all kinds of other substance e.g. Ritalin for too long of a period of time so as to make it inconvenient to use e.g. Ritalin.

---------------------

 

The fulvic acid in the smallest doses (I forgot how many mgs are per ml in the fluid form that I bought, the pureandfulvic) is very very mild, it's much less stimulating than Jarrows shilajit in a similar fulvic acid dose.

This substance I think I see more as a kind of supplement rather than something that's convenient and efficient to use for immediate performance gains. There are some really interesting things about it. Good also for anyone who can't tolerate caffeine, ginseng, or things like that but want a mild energy boost. 

 

 

 


Edited by Keizo, 23 April 2019 - 04:18 AM.

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#189 MichaelFocus22

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 04:32 AM

These are all interesting methylipyhendate routines, that I will probably integrate into a higher capacity the moment this stupid semester ends. Right now, my goal is stanford graduate school but My effort just isn't enough, I just don't have enough energy but in all fairness I'm being basically super human but even today I have to literally bruteforce everything to achieve the high quality performance, that my ambitions demand but it's not sustainable. I can barely do a 15 minute workout without being exhausted last year I could do a 1 and half hour workout. Then again, I have no mobility with a car, I bike everywhere and am taking 20+ units+2 clubs and more financial drama. Maybe, I have high expectations but IDGAF, I'm absolutely determined to not let this limit me.  Fasoracetam seems like an interesting subject but you need to give some data to back up your evidence. What were your stats? Did you have a 4.0 with 3 clubs or what did you achieve from a doing what you KNOW perspective. It's unclear what I will do, but I suspect once money comes in then things will get significantly better probably.  Keep watch for My How to ADD thread, I'll update it in a few days.



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#190 cat-nips

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 02:46 PM

Keizo: Thanks for sharing your regimen and experience.   Some novel and interesting suggestions mentioned.  Faso is definitely interesting as its not a psychostimulant from what I'm aware of.  Worth looking into and one to keep an eye on in the future, as I think there are clinical trials being done now as its gone through a few phases of testing already.  

 

Drew: Diet is a tough one because unless you have a ton of resources, eating healthy takes a lot of effort, scheduling and planning/organization.  Issues that I already have problems with.  I generally, stay away from the refined carbs, most sugars, dairy, most wheat, bread, and when I'm better about it, everything gets better.  But I think that's the case for everyone and it's not a cure, only supportive for the body part of the mind/body equation. 

 

Being too busy, or having too many time-intensive goals will lead to burnout eventually and can be rough on a persons diet, as all the quick, cheaper options tend to be processed or not so healthy.  Leads to a vicious cycle of feeling worse and taking more stims, and not eating or sleeping well that will eventually cause other problems with adrenal burnout.  But while diet can certainly make ADHD and everything else worse, it doesn't treat the issue in itself.  

 

All stims raise norepinephrine to some degree.  I believe this also increases the level of cortisol in your system and ramps up your fight/flight response as they are similar neurotransmitters that can be generated from the same place (adrenal gland, although norepinephrine is also produced in the brain and goes into your system as a neurotransmitter).  Over time, having chronically elevated cortisol levels may cause problems with parasympathetic function and cause problems with your other systems not working properly (digestion, thyroid, adrenal gland).  In that respect, a proper diet with a moderate amount of physical activity can do a lot towards harm reduction and keeping some of that in check, as exercise may raise cortisol during the workout, but lowers it afterwards for a much longer period.  Functional and sustainable solutions are what the ADHD community needs as well as better treatment options.  



#191 MichaelFocus22

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 04:33 PM

Keizo: Thanks for sharing your regimen and experience.   Some novel and interesting suggestions mentioned.  Faso is definitely interesting as its not a psychostimulant from what I'm aware of.  Worth looking into and one to keep an eye on in the future, as I think there are clinical trials being done now as its gone through a few phases of testing already.  

 

Drew: Diet is a tough one because unless you have a ton of resources, eating healthy takes a lot of effort, scheduling and planning/organization.  Issues that I already have problems with.  I generally, stay away from the refined carbs, most sugars, dairy, most wheat, bread, and when I'm better about it, everything gets better.  But I think that's the case for everyone and it's not a cure, only supportive for the body part of the mind/body equation. 

 

Being too busy, or having too many time-intensive goals will lead to burnout eventually and can be rough on a persons diet, as all the quick, cheaper options tend to be processed or not so healthy.  Leads to a vicious cycle of feeling worse and taking more stims, and not eating or sleeping well that will eventually cause other problems with adrenal burnout.  But while diet can certainly make ADHD and everything else worse, it doesn't treat the issue in itself.  

 

All stims raise norepinephrine to some degree.  I believe this also increases the level of cortisol in your system and ramps up your fight/flight response as they are similar neurotransmitters that can be generated from the same place (adrenal gland, although norepinephrine is also produced in the brain and goes into your system as a neurotransmitter).  Over time, having chronically elevated cortisol levels may cause problems with parasympathetic function and cause problems with your other systems not working properly (digestion, thyroid, adrenal gland).  In that respect, a proper diet with a moderate amount of physical activity can do a lot towards harm reduction and keeping some of that in check, as exercise may raise cortisol during the workout, but lowers it afterwards for a much longer period.  Functional and sustainable solutions are what the ADHD community needs as well as better treatment options.  

 

1. Well from my own ancedotal experiences, when my diet is good my ADD is probably Moderate to mild but obviously it's still there. As in relation to the problems of being to busy, that's basically a mechanism to stimulate your body and mind. I reccomend people with ADHD become to busy because at a minimum you won't suffer boredom and it will keep you aroused so that you can focus on the tasks, at hand when you don't have your medication to sustain yourself into the future. People with ADD thrive when their is a competition, challenge or are hyper-ambitious I heavily reccomend it because your mind will make you do things , that you didn't believe were possible but this isn't possible to tap into your latent abilities without medication unfortunately.  I agree, that the biggest issue is being sustainable, I can focus in the short-term for maybe a few months but it's unsustainable sense I have no internal way to stimulate myself to get the task done. It's not that I don't want to get the task done, I literally run out of mental fuel before the task gets done. Working out has done nothing for me in terms of functional improvements to focus, pomodoro timers are way more useful in allowing to manage my areas of producitivty.

2. Unfortunately, I feel maybe ADD-PI adults are stuck between a rock and a hard place, because the job market DEMANDS that you sustain your abilities. Again, most ADD individuals will need  a CAREER not a job or you will fail miserably. I scanned the employment market again, it seems like it's getting a little ADD friendlier but it still seems totally preferential to neurotypical functioning like, self-starter, detail-oriented, teamplayer,  and all these other amazing traits that simply set us up for failure. At, a bare minimum most of ADD-PI individuals are being gimped on life financially, because without SUSTAINABLE financial management, your not able to make any concrete life progressions or hard metrics of improvements in ones life. This, I suspect is probably humiliating for the ADD person, because their incapable of BUILDING  a life even though they WANT TO. Especially, for myself it's frustrating because I'm  hoping and seeing if anything changes while I've been working on changing and busting my ass, it's just not enough. I'm having to delay to so many milestones simply because of finance.  Hence, why ADD-PI Is more debilitating to making real progress in any performance metric of executive ability. School doesn't challenge executive functions, rather one can work in bursts which is why school is doable, SUSTAINING an activity literally isn't possible for me, I know because I've done it. It's hard to see the ignorance of NT'S when they view, your progressions diametrically and simply don't understand what's the issue.  One moment, I have millions of thoughts clouding my mind and the next I get one hour of silence. There's no rhyme or reason to any of it. Anyways, I'll probably increase my dose or lower the dose with a booster amount of Ritalin in the evening if, I feel that's appropriate. We will be fine-tuning the dose, to find the sweet-spot to find a sustainable outcome to become independent. In relationship, to new ADD treatment unfortunately, I don't see anything coming anytime soon. All we can do is wait.

 

 

                                             /TLDR Agree with what your saying, lack of sustainable treatment mechanisms to perform what you know, ADD-PI is still an issue, excessive thoughts etc.



#192 floweryriddle

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 04:57 AM

How are you guys holding up? 

 
I came back from my 'drug holiday' and continued my MAOi self-experiment and finally started Moclobemide trial after a big motivational down and lack of drive. I started with 150mg in the morning, went up to 150mg x2 a day a few weeks later, then changed to 300mg x once a day (first in the morning, then switched to before bed). My stack is now 18mg of Concerta, 300 of Moclobemide and Rasagiline every 2-5 days. 
 
First some thoughts: Rasagiline has different effects for me compared to Selegiline. Selegiline improved my motivation and drive more while Rasagiline does that only a little. It's a bit odd because Rasagiline seems to be more potent in killing MAO-B than Selegiline, so I'm guessing something else in Selegiline (maybe the metabolites?) does wonders for motivation. The pamflet says:
 
Platelet MAO activity in clinical studies: Studies in healthy subjects and in Parkinson’s disease patients have shown that rasagiline inhibits platelet MAO-B irreversibly. The inhibition lasts at least 1 week after last dose. Almost 25-35 % MAO-B inhibition was achieved after a single rasagiline dose of 1 mg/day and more than 55% of MAO-B inhibition was achieved after a single rasagiline dose of 2 mg/day. Over 90% inhibition was achieved 3 days after rasagiline daily dosing at 2 mg/day and this inhibition level was maintained 3 days post-dose. Multiple doses of rasagiline of 0.5, 1 and 2 mg per day resulted in complete MAO-B inhibition. 

 

 

 
If I had the choice I would say stick to Selegiline. Sadly since Selegiline is scheduled here I don't have the choice, so Rasagiline it is for me. 
 
Because of it's high potency I am only using it every 2-5 days in 0.5mg, to inhibit only a bit of MAO-B irreversibly. Moclobemide itself is also going a little bit after MAO-B according to the wikipedia:
 
Quote
A single 300 mg dose of moclobemide inhibits 80% of monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A) and 30% of monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B), blocking the decomposition of norepinephrine, serotonin and, to a lesser extent, dopamine. There is also some evidence pointing towards moclobemide possessing neuroprotective properties.
 
Pharmacodynamics aside, does it actually do anything? 
 
It has now been a few weeks that I added Moclobemide and I genuinely feel better. I can notice a difference on days when I take it and days that I skip (since MAO inhibition is only for 24h). It's very subtle, but I am sure it's not just placebo. 
 
- Emotions feel more solid and less all over the place. I 'feel' less emotionally impulsive
- I am more easy to snap out of distractive thoughts. Like when I obsess over certain things it feels easier to break out of it
- I got out of that motivational down and started pushing myself to do things again that my brain marked as 'really annoying' / 'you don't want to do that' like going to the gym. Now I my thinking patterns are often even "man, I hope I can hit the gym after work today"
- Very small statistic but the amount of unchecked todos in my "to do today" by the end of the day went down from 8 to around 3. Things aren't piling up as much as they have before. 
- I think I am enjoying things more. Previously most things I do had to have a purpose otherwise I'd consider them a waste of time. Now it feels like I am able to do things just for the fun of it
- I more often have days where I leave my apartment and think "oh man today is a good day"
- I feel more social. When I'm with friends I am more talkative and just in general in a better mood 
- Concerta is (well, no shit?) a lot stronger. Given MAO-A and B inhibition I am good with a single 18mg dosage, that's the lowest dosage available. Previously with just Selegiline I was at 27mg. 18mg might even be too much
- I monitored for some kind of raise in blood pressure but nothing of the likes happened. My average heart rate even went down to 60-75
 
If I had to make a comparison, the effects are slightly similar to what Strattera did for me without completely killing my impulsiveness and with virtually no sideffects. 
 
For negative things, there is a bit of drowsiness a few hours after taking Moclobemide and I can't take it at the same time with Concerta without potentiating the Methylphenidate too much. I have to leave some time between them, hence why I moved Moclobemide to the evening. 
 
I did a few test days where I skipped the Concerta and only ran off Moclobemide + Rasagiline (on days I took Rasagiline I didn't take Concerta) and had good results. It's no Concerta for sure but it was easier to keep focus and I felt less all over the places compared to when not taking anything. 
 
I don't have a verdict on it yet but wanted to share some experiences. Probably won't touch this combination for a while to see how this performs a month later. I'm curious to try higher dosages of Moclobemide but for now I'm good. Also kind of makes me wish I could try Selegiline in higher dosages to also let it go a bit after MAO-A. 

Edited by floweryriddle, 30 May 2019 - 04:59 AM.

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#193 MichaelFocus22

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 04:10 AM

 

How are you guys holding up? 

 
I came back from my 'drug holiday' and continued my MAOi self-experiment and finally started Moclobemide trial after a big motivational down and lack of drive. I started with 150mg in the morning, went up to 150mg x2 a day a few weeks later, then changed to 300mg x once a day (first in the morning, then switched to before bed). My stack is now 18mg of Concerta, 300 of Moclobemide and Rasagiline every 2-5 days. 
 
First some thoughts: Rasagiline has different effects for me compared to Selegiline. Selegiline improved my motivation and drive more while Rasagiline does that only a little. It's a bit odd because Rasagiline seems to be more potent in killing MAO-B than Selegiline, so I'm guessing something else in Selegiline (maybe the metabolites?) does wonders for motivation. The pamflet says:
 

 

 
If I had the choice I would say stick to Selegiline. Sadly since Selegiline is scheduled here I don't have the choice, so Rasagiline it is for me. 
 
Because of it's high potency I am only using it every 2-5 days in 0.5mg, to inhibit only a bit of MAO-B irreversibly. Moclobemide itself is also going a little bit after MAO-B according to the wikipedia:
 
Quote
 
Pharmacodynamics aside, does it actually do anything? 
 
It has now been a few weeks that I added Moclobemide and I genuinely feel better. I can notice a difference on days when I take it and days that I skip (since MAO inhibition is only for 24h). It's very subtle, but I am sure it's not just placebo. 
 
- Emotions feel more solid and less all over the place. I 'feel' less emotionally impulsive
- I am more easy to snap out of distractive thoughts. Like when I obsess over certain things it feels easier to break out of it
- I got out of that motivational down and started pushing myself to do things again that my brain marked as 'really annoying' / 'you don't want to do that' like going to the gym. Now I my thinking patterns are often even "man, I hope I can hit the gym after work today"
- Very small statistic but the amount of unchecked todos in my "to do today" by the end of the day went down from 8 to around 3. Things aren't piling up as much as they have before. 
- I think I am enjoying things more. Previously most things I do had to have a purpose otherwise I'd consider them a waste of time. Now it feels like I am able to do things just for the fun of it
- I more often have days where I leave my apartment and think "oh man today is a good day"
- I feel more social. When I'm with friends I am more talkative and just in general in a better mood 
- Concerta is (well, no shit?) a lot stronger. Given MAO-A and B inhibition I am good with a single 18mg dosage, that's the lowest dosage available. Previously with just Selegiline I was at 27mg. 18mg might even be too much
- I monitored for some kind of raise in blood pressure but nothing of the likes happened. My average heart rate even went down to 60-75
 
If I had to make a comparison, the effects are slightly similar to what Strattera did for me without completely killing my impulsiveness and with virtually no sideffects. 
 
For negative things, there is a bit of drowsiness a few hours after taking Moclobemide and I can't take it at the same time with Concerta without potentiating the Methylphenidate too much. I have to leave some time between them, hence why I moved Moclobemide to the evening. 
 
I did a few test days where I skipped the Concerta and only ran off Moclobemide + Rasagiline (on days I took Rasagiline I didn't take Concerta) and had good results. It's no Concerta for sure but it was easier to keep focus and I felt less all over the places compared to when not taking anything. 
 
I don't have a verdict on it yet but wanted to share some experiences. Probably won't touch this combination for a while to see how this performs a month later. I'm curious to try higher dosages of Moclobemide but for now I'm good. Also kind of makes me wish I could try Selegiline in higher dosages to also let it go a bit after MAO-A. 

 

 

1. I feel you flowery concerta is bullshit because you have to make such a stupid ass trade-off for such little return.  I just wasted 10 hours on the phone in a instant-gratification depression to run from my problems that I don't know how to solve. This typically only happens when I have alot of fucking time on my hands and as usual with no structure it went to shit. So I'll go back on my meds even if I hate it. Maybe, I will look into moclobermide but I don't really feel like I'm getting anywhere.. Haha it's funny because I'm so high functioning but stupid ass situations continue to develop themselves... I'm not sure what to really tell you anymore. I'm pretty sure it's just summer and I'm sick and tired of having spare time on my hands and no fucking structure at all.  I miss my classes and 3 more months of summer seeks like cancer for me... At this point, I've basically exhausted everything and the medication seems to be giving me diminishing returns at this point. I will continue to take it because I don't want to go back to that place....If not I'll just end my life.  ADHD-PI feels like being a hamster in a wheel...you just don't get anywhere. It's fucking annoying when you get to see neurotypicals have EMOTIONS AND COMPETENCE All at the same time and all we get is this piece of shit zombie pill.. lolol.  I call my Uncle and I told him I did nothing he seemed disappointed and yet he hasn't worked his ass into the ground and it was not enough...Makes me remember why I played so many games when I was younger. I could escape the fucking bullshit of my defective mind and most of all the thoughts... Anyways, that's no way to live and to grow we must accept are new being in reality..These binges happen once a month or two months.. It's still disconcerting... that you and I have studied substances and drugs to live a normal life and it's just not enough...I agree a drug holiday is better than nothing and I need to start taking my fucking pills either that or I go on adderall but I don't want to fry my dopamine receptors even more.  Life is so strange..How can we work so hard to achieve so little while those stupid monkeys achieve everything so effortlessly?

 

2. I agree that off meds I'm in a solid mood but I can simply squander that very quickly into instant-gratification if I don't follow my routine I can go into a bad place very quickly. Maybe, that's why chest bennington killed himself. He seems like me in a way. Unless, I'm 100% grinding or working I'll be OK but if I'm not I'm in a super duper bad place. Worst part, is feeling economically DISABLED while you watch a fat motherfucker eat cheetos and stuff his face and hold down a JOB EFFORTLESSLY. No neurotypical has to handle DEALING with trading off emotions for short-term productivity. Emotions allow you to ENJOY the world. At the same, time enjoyment is FUTILE unless you show what you know and shit doesn't hit the fan with your responsibilities. It's a no win situation.. Perhaps you should investigate into a GOOD DIET? I know when I have alot of money or if I even have subsistence income it's increasingly seemingly like that I'm throwing those meds away and going to go as natural if possible. If not then I will medicate for the rest of my life.  You don't want to go to the ADHD HOLE, it's a fucking horrible place to be...  I've found when i had a car before my fucking license got suspended like an idiot. Cough ADHD PEOPLE suck at driving Cough. The fundamental question that must be asked, is what is left? Do you live your life happily in the hopes you destroy your whole life just so you live below mediocre? Is the solution to lobotomize yourself perpetually to fit in with those fucking piece of shit sheep? Such a Catch-22..I feel there must be a better way than living life like this....Maybe, It might be better to just come to terms with your ADHD and live life on your own terms? At the same time, ADHD must be perpetually MANAGED and unmedicated this is VERY Hard to do.. At the same time, we've been given a fucked hand attempting to emulating a neurotypical is like attempting to become a sheep when your a lion? It's blasphemy if you ask me. World would be better off if we culled half of the sheep population anyways tbh... Then I wouldn't have to deal with them anymore. Hopefully you don't get to my point where you've exhausted all your options... it's pretty underwhelming....To say the least.  Anyways, the dilemma is simple,  unless we can access are emotions and work at the point of performance then we get diminishing returns. The problem is, that neurotypicals NEED emotions so that you build rapport which is equally important to job security and promotion. Thus, your short-term improvement at the point of the performance is a zeros-sum.. Most people don't get this..Or it could just be me.

 

3. Ignore that rant if you wish...I've had a long day of rumination when I have tons of spare time. Anyways, perhaps consider taking very low doses of Ritalin and you could take 3 doses and that way you have more control over your "zombie time" so to speak. I've been considering this or you can simply  get a highly specialized diet for ADD with high protein and use lots of pomodoro's. This is as good as medication it just requires consistency and it's what got me through august-January. Keep in mind things still went wrong but I could computer my producitivity accordingly. Your last best, is amass enough money become self-employed and delegate everything you suck at and AUTOMATE ALL DECISIONS..Then you can go off meds and enjoy yourself. Best compromise is probably low dose ritalin 3 doses at short bursts and you could probable time it so to speak. At least, this is my last strategy... Then again, I haven't been taking the medication barely so... As for me the bruteforce method just isn't working...No surprise there. I need to reevaluate my strategy for ADHD management that might be more nuanced than medication perhaps....Moral of the story: Fuck ADHD-PI: Hopefully this gets bred out of the gene pool or a break-through treatment is developed but I'm not holding my breath.  I wish you luck.

 

                                              /TLDR /RANT/DEPRESSED/SAD/SAD


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#194 floweryriddle

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 06:16 AM

Another little update. I cut down on everything besides Methylphenidate (Concerta) in 18mg once a day, and Moclobemide 300mg in the evening. I'm also no longer taking a MAO-B inhibitor. 

I had amazing results for a while: My mood stabilized, my motivation increased drastically and in general I enjoyed life a lot more. Moclobemide gives me similar effects to strattera without the increase in heart rate and that's really good. 
 
I had to take a break for a while from Moclobemide and when I went back on it things have been a bit different. Even with 300mg around 7pm, Concerta in 18mg in the next morning feels way too strong in the afternoon. It feels like my brain is overstimulated and I have trouble staying focused and motivated. The problems with the motivation wall came back in full force likely because of this overstimulation and it's very hard for me to start with tasks. 
BP and heart rate stays in the normal safe range so no hypertensive crisis. 
It's also odd that this happens in the afternoon likely when Concerta is releasing it's second batch of MPH, and not in the morning on the first batch. In the afternoon less MAO should be inhibited by Moclobemide so I would have expected less strong stimulation. 
 
I am not really sure why the sudden change in results happened and I don't want to give up on this combination yet. I might go down to 150mg and give that a go for a while but just wanted to check if anyone here has an idea or some other success stories. 
 
How are you holding up? 


#195 Keizo

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 09:06 AM

I've used Selegiline previously, but not in combination with anything (other than multivitamin and D3), in my experience it is extremely unreliable as far as perceived effects. Some days it made me tense, some days lethargic, some days motivated and less depressed (i.e. food tasted twice as good --- something I recall d-amphetamine doing as well in ~5mg doses). My regimen was something like 0.125mg sublingually every other day. I also tried at some point taking a higher dose and just swallowing it; those effects seemed rather different. My intention of using Selegiline had nothing to do with ADHD, but rather an attempt to keep the brain healthy over time (taking it 8 days or so here and there), and I would say I quickly came to dislike the substance. 

 

As far as how I'm doing, well I'm probably doing a little better as the weeks go by; as far as stress tolerance, ability to think, attention, and so on. In fact I feel extremely healthy and functional with the exception of, basically, anticipatory anxiety and anticipatory anhedonia. However some of my circumstances keep me a bit pinned, and I've had a very long period of not doing terribly much, but that will change I'm sure. So I'm still basically only taking ~30 mg methylphenidate/day about 90% of the time, and a few weeks of cerebrolysin a couple of times per year (MPH break during those times, or 85% reduction in intake), then meldonium I'll probably do another period together with MPH later this year (taking a break now from meldonium due to drug manufacturer recommendations).

 

When I up my job/study time in a few weeks I might try Fasoracetam again.


Edited by Keizo, 02 August 2019 - 09:11 AM.


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#196 MichaelFocus22

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 09:49 PM

 

Another little update. I cut down on everything besides Methylphenidate (Concerta) in 18mg once a day, and Moclobemide 300mg in the evening. I'm also no longer taking a MAO-B inhibitor. 

I had amazing results for a while: My mood stabilized, my motivation increased drastically and in general I enjoyed life a lot more. Moclobemide gives me similar effects to strattera without the increase in heart rate and that's really good. 
 
I had to take a break for a while from Moclobemide and when I went back on it things have been a bit different. Even with 300mg around 7pm, Concerta in 18mg in the next morning feels way too strong in the afternoon. It feels like my brain is overstimulated and I have trouble staying focused and motivated. The problems with the motivation wall came back in full force likely because of this overstimulation and it's very hard for me to start with tasks. 
BP and heart rate stays in the normal safe range so no hypertensive crisis. 
It's also odd that this happens in the afternoon likely when Concerta is releasing it's second batch of MPH, and not in the morning on the first batch. In the afternoon less MAO should be inhibited by Moclobemide so I would have expected less strong stimulation. 
 
I am not really sure why the sudden change in results happened and I don't want to give up on this combination yet. I might go down to 150mg and give that a go for a while but just wanted to check if anyone here has an idea or some other success stories. 
 
How are you holding up? 

 

 

1. Pretty terrible and it looks like you followed my advice and cut-down on that stack.  Less is more and taking all those supplements is basically the same as eating  a good diet. My life is basically on hold until I find a new position that works with ADD and maybe I'll just live with it with an occasional dose of meds? It's hard to tell, keep in mind unmedication will destroy your entire life but we all know this. I'm still unable to hold down any position and may smoke pot or CBD oil. Who knows?  I do find it amusing when ADD people justify their tendencies, being scatter-brained isn't a good quality.  I'm still as scattered as ever and I hate it. So many paradoxes still exist that make no sense, why does one person respond well while another doesn't? Why are girls immune to the medication paradox? What makes one ADD-PI person a responder and the other one NOT? How do you tolerate being hated but still needing to function?  Don't confuse enjoyment of life with achievement of life Sure, it's nice to "enjoy" but I also enjoyed alot of useless addictions to.  In all seriousness I've made no progress in my hobbies in months despite being able to persist. When I "enjoyed" something always went terribly wrong. So be careful, or it could haunt you. Otherwise, I've nothing to tell you I may be inactive and update my 2 threads and that's it.  It's still ironic that the lack of support I've received for my work on ADD. Nonetheless, I will find greener pastures for people that actually want answers. I suspect, that all neuro-genetic chemical treatments are unsustainable and we require a mechanical device that could artificially stimulate us at the proper moments, similar to a horse being on a stick  with a carrot towards a goal without all the horrible side-effects of stimulants. It's just a waiting game until better treatments appear. Goodluck.


Edited by DrewMichael21, 06 August 2019 - 09:51 PM.

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