11 replies to this topic

[ironfistx]

Everyone on this forum says folic acid is bad and doesn't occur in anything.  It's added to food regularly.  Should we prepare what is necessary to avoid it and try to get methyl folate instead?

[experimenting]

Not sure folic acid is bad.

You need to be careful with all this methylfolate stuff. I don't like skipping biological processes like that. I used methylfolate for a few days and I felt horrible- so mentally flat. Think it was the adrenaline blocking or something.

[John250]

Not sure folic acid is bad.

You need to be careful with all this methylfolate stuff. I don't like skipping biological processes like that. I used methylfolate for a few days and I felt horrible- so mentally flat. Think it was the adrenaline blocking or something.

I started using 1000mcg methylfolate and noticed a lot of brain fog. I figured I needed it because I have lower homocysteine but I guess not.

[Dorian Grey]

I read excess folic acid, while not carcinogenic itself, can feed colon (and perhaps other) cancer that arises from other causes.  

 

As food fortification of folic acid has been increased recently (to combat neural tube birth defects during pregnancy), I've sought out a B-Complex (Rite Aid B-Complex with B-12) that does not contain folic acid.  

 

I've pondered taking additional methylfolate, but with the higher folic acid now in foods, have decided this may not be necessary.  I've been eating more Caesar salad, as romaine lettuce is supposed to have good folate content.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 22 September 2018 - 03:21 PM.

[Hip]

I read excess folic acid, while not carcinogenic itself, can feed colon (and perhaps other) cancer that arises from other causes.

It appears to be more complicated than that: 

This study found that folate may have a "dual-modulator" in colorectal cancer: moderate dietary increases of folate started before any neoplastic foci appear in the colon have a protective influence against colorectal cancer; whereas excessive intake or increased intake of folate after early lesions appear actually increases the formation of tumors. 

Thus if you have not got colorectal cancer, folate is protective against this cancer; but if you have early signs of this cancer, folate actually hastens the disease. This likely explains why when folate food fortification was introduced in the US, there was actually a small increase in bowel cancer rates for a few years, but thereafter the bowel cancer rates fell. 

[mikeinnaples]

If you don't have the MTHFR mutation, you probably won't get enough of it from 'fortified' foods with a decent diet to cause some of the health/cancer concerns unless you are actively supplementing it on top of regularly eating the foods with it added. If you have a single mutation, or worse, the double mutation, then you need to stay away from fortified food, avoid supplementing folic acid in anything, AND supplement 5-methylfolate especially if you have the double mutation. Barring the mutation, you get enough folate in a decent diet from green leafy veggies where you probably never need to concern yourself with supplementing it in any form.

 

Note: Folate != folic acid != 5-methylfolate ...they are different structurally.

 

Folate is what occurs naturally in green leafy veggies. 5-methylfolate is what your body uses post conversion from folate. Folic Acid is a cheap, man-made way to prevent birth defects and a few different illnesses in cases of very poor diet. This is generally not a concern in most of the developed world unless you are unable or unwilling to eat a fairly decent diet.

[Hip]

If you have a single mutation, or worse, the double mutation, then you need to stay away from fortified food, avoid supplementing folic acid in anything, AND supplement 5-methylfolate especially if you have the double mutation. 

 

It is the MTHFR C677T mutation which hampers your ability to convert folic acid into methylfolate. 

 

MTHFR A1298C mutations hamper the conversion of methylfolate into BH4 (tetrahydrobiopterin). 

 

I don't think it is established science that folic acid supplementation is not advised for those with MTHFR C677T mutations. There are some suggestions that it may not be advisable, but that's more just speculation.

[mikeinnaples]

I was speaking mainly about the C667T mutation.

 

An increase in unmetabolized folic acid can lead to many issues besides fetal loss. First, it can lead to an immune dysfunction by dysregulation of natural killer cells [3,4]. This excess folate decreases their innate cytotoxic effects leading to increased tumorgenesis. Increased folic acid has been linked to accelerations of leukemias, colorectal and prostate carcinomas [5,6]. In a recent large clinic trial in the US and Canada, a 1mg supplement of folate was given to patients with a history of colorectal cancer. At the 3-5 year follow up mark, there was found to be 67% of increased risk of invasive colorectal adenomas or advancement of previous lesions, as well as a more than 2x increased risk of at least 3 colorectal adenomas and prostate cancer [3].

 

 

Unable to metabolize folic acid due to genetic mutation combined with supplementing and/or consuming it via fortified foods is a bad combination. There has been quite a bit discussion about it on these boards with linked studies.

[Hip]

In a recent large clinic trial in the US and Canada, a 1mg supplement of folate was given to patients with a history of colorectal cancer. At the 3-5 year follow up mark, there was found to be 67% of increased risk of invasive colorectal adenomas or advancement of previous lesions, as well as a more than 2x increased risk of at least 3 colorectal adenomas and prostate cancer [3].

 

As mentioned in my post above, folic acid supplementation paradoxically may accelerate existing or incipient colorectal cancer when already present, but appears to be protective against colorectal cancer if it has not already appeared.

Edited by Hip, 25 September 2018 - 05:13 PM.

[pamojja]

Found this post on an other forum a good explanation:

 

https://forums.phoen...4/#post-1000650

 

Also read that too much of folic acid in any case, above 1 mg a day, would block folate receptors.

 

 

a 1mg supplement of folate was given to patients with a history of colorectal cancer. At the 3-5 year follow up mark, there was found to be 67% of increased risk of invasive colorectal adenomas or advancement of previous lesions, as well as a more than 2x increased risk of at least 3 colorectal adenomas and prostate cancer [3].

 

Couldn't find this study with a quick search. But one has also be aware that these numbers are all 'relative risk', and not absolute risk increase.

 

Where a 67% increased risk could in the best case for example mean out of a 100 with colorectal cancer (itself at about 40 new cases per 100.000 persons a year in the US) 3 persons instead of 1 out of a hundred had advancement of the disease with 1 mg folic acid. Therefore always necessary to check for the absolute risk increase by comparing the actual numbers of outcome in placebo and treatment group with all study participants.

[John250]

It is the MTHFR C677T mutation which hampers your ability to convert folic acid into methylfolate.

MTHFR A1298C mutations hamper the conversion of methylfolate into BH4 (tetrahydrobiopterin).

I don't think it is established science that folic acid supplementation is not advised for those with MTHFR C677T mutations. There are some suggestions that it may not be advisable, but that's more just speculation.

My:

MTHFR C677T Is AG(one mutation)

MTHFR A1298C is Gat (one mutation)

MTRR A66G is GG (2 mutations)

MTRR C524T is CT (one mutation)

What should I supplement with and what should I avoid? Thank you

[osris]

"Folic Acid Does Not Cause Cancer. So Who Made the Mistake?"

by Andrew W. Saul

"Science is a great servant but a poor master. Not infrequently, it can exemplify what Harvard math professor Tom Lehrer satirized as where "the important thing is to understand what you're doing, rather than to get the right answer." Just because a published study suggests something does not make it true.

I never liked math very much, and I still don't. But I am indebted to dedicated math teachers who taught me in spite of myself. Decades ago, one such teacher gave me wise advice that spans all disciplines: "Look at your answer. Does your answer make sense?"

So when research suggests that the vitamin folic acid somehow causes lung or colon cancer, it is time to hit the books. It may even occasionally be necessary to hit them right out of the way, and use common sense instead.

Folate, once known as vitamin B-9, is named after the dark green leafy vegetables it was first extracted from. "Folium" is Latin for leaf. Leaves and greens are high in folate. Herbivorous animals get plenty of folate because they eat plenty of foliage. Carnivorous animals also get plenty of folate, because they consume herbivorous animals. In the wild, this means the entire animal, including its abdominal organs full of the prey's last meal of partially digested vegetation. Indeed, the viscera are typically the first thing a predator eats.

If folate caused cancer, the whole animal kingdom would have a lot of it. And while wild animals have their own problems, cancer is rarely one of them.

If you look at the research suggesting a human cancer connection (1,2), it does not say that folate in food causes cancer. The research only points to folic acid, as specifically as found in supplements, as the bogey man.

But there is virtually no difference whatsoever between the two forms of this nutrient. Folate and folic acid are different only in whether the carboxylic acid groups have dissociated or not. Folic acid's molecular formula is C19, H19, N7, O6. Folate is C19, H18, N7, O6. The difference? Folate has one less hydrogen cation (H+). A hydrogen cation is a proton. A single proton. I have never seen evidence that protons cause cancer.

If folate/folic acid somehow caused cancer, it would have to be the rest of the molecule that is the problem. But most research shows that folic acid/folate prevents cancer. It is well-known that persons eating plant-based diets have a significantly lower risk of cancer. In addition to providing nutrients, eating more vegetation means more fiber and less constipation, valuable for preventing colon cancer. Herbivorous animals are definitely not constipated. Ask any dairy farmer, and you can start with me: many years ago, I used to milk 120 cows twice daily. When you walk behind Bossy, look out.

As for lung cancer, the research accusing folic acid also happens to show that 94% of the study subjects who developed lung cancer were either current or former smokers. Smoking causes cancer. Animals do not smoke. But they do eat a lot of foliage, either by grazing on greens or gorging on guts.

Both studies claiming that folic acid causes cancer were published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, which also contains a large amount of pharmaceutical advertising. JAMA is among the journals that peer-reviewed research has shown to be biased against vitamins due to vested interests. (3)

What is more likely: that a small group of scientists made an error or two, or that all of Nature did? On this one, I am backing the animals. 1.8 million species can't be all wrong."

(Andrew W. Saul taught biology, nutrition, and health science at the college level. He is the author of Doctor Yourself and Fire Your Doctor! and, with Dr. Abram Hoffer, co-author of Orthomolecular Medicine for Everyone and The Vitamin Cure for Alcoholism. Saul is featured in the documentary film Food Matters. He is on the Editorial Board of the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine.)"


References:

(1) Folic acid, B12 may increase cancer risk.
http://www.webmd.com...ase-cancer-risk
Original study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19920236

(2) High doses of folic acid may increase colon cancer risk.
http://www.foxnews.c...,278237,00.html
Original study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17551129

(3) Pharmaceutical advertising biases journals against vitamin supplements.
http://orthomolecula...ns/v05n02.shtml
Original study: Kemper KJ, Hood KL. Does pharmaceutical advertising affect journal publication about dietary supplements? BMC Complement Altern Med. 2008 Apr 9;8:11. Full text at http://www.biomedcen.../1472-6882/8/11 or http://www.pubmedcen...bmedid=18400092

http://orthomolecula...ns/v06n17.shtml