14 replies to this topic

[CWF1986]

I've taken selegiline before at 5mg/day for 30 days and was very pleased with the results.  So this isn't my first rodeo with sel. generally speaking.  It did take about 2 weeks for full effects.

 

Given that sel. effects aren't related to how much is in the body at a given moment, but to how much MAO-B is inhibited, I was wondering if an initial attack dose would have me seeing the effects kick in sooner.  It sounds reasonable.  Higher single dose of selegiline would mean more MAO-B inhibited at that particular dosing than a lower dose of selegiline.

 

The only issue I can think of are tolerability and MAO-A inhibition.  I'm not too worried about the latter since I wouldn't be taking enough loading doses to appreciably decrease the amount of MAO-A in my body I think.  Not to mention, I also take a medicine highly selective for NRI which reduces to eliminates the tyramine pressor response (cheese effect).  

 

I was thinking of taking 20, 15, and 10mg of selegiline on my 1st, 2nd, and 3rd day respectively.  After that, it would be 5mg/day.

 

The only thing I could find that was readily and publicly available in the medical literature in regard to taking a loading dose of selegiline is about preventing parkinson's disease-like syndrome from exposure to MPTP which suggest 1 initial dose of 20mg followed by 10mg/day for 4 weeks.  

 

The following link is the downloadable Microsoft Word Document about the MPTP stuff in case anyone is curious:

www.research.ucsf.edu/ohp/MPTP_final.doc

[cat-nips]

I pretty much did that with Selegiline.  Started with 10 for a couple days, went to 15, then 20 for a few days, then back to 15 few a few and dropped to 5 at the end.  Took a total of 79 capsules in a period of around 6 weeks.  

 

BP was pretty much normalized the whole time except for the one time that it wasn't.  But I did notice some strange heart rate spikes on my fit bit during sleeping hours that were never there before.  Be careful with monitoring dosages.  My heart rate was never elevated.  Selegiline actually caused a bit of hypotension and I think that was partially why the anti-physical effects manifested.  It was only the headache, and the knowledge that I was MAO that made me check.  Before that, I assumed it was a choline deficiency.  

 

There's a definite antidepressant effect that at higher doses or taken by itself without a more motivating factor, could be a little bit like a derealization.  It killed desire to be physical, move around, do stuff, and gave me dry eyes, and be engaged or social with those around me.  

 

Positives was that it improved goal oriented learning, or at least I thought it did at the time.  Powered through a lot with that strange focused fog, but I seem to have lost memory of doing it.  The proof is in the finished work, and I am trying to see if actually retained anything that I did while on Selegiline.

[John250]

I pretty much did that with Selegiline. Started with 10 for a couple days, went to 15, then 20 for a few days, then back to 15 few a few and dropped to 5 at the end. Took a total of 79 capsules in a period of around 6 weeks.

BP was pretty much normalized the whole time except for the one time that it wasn't. But I did notice some strange heart rate spikes on my fit bit during sleeping hours that were never there before. Be careful with monitoring dosages. My heart rate was never elevated. Selegiline actually caused a bit of hypotension and I think that was partially why the anti-physical effects manifested. It was only the headache, and the knowledge that I was MAO that made me check. Before that, I assumed it was a choline deficiency.

There's a definite antidepressant effect that at higher doses or taken by itself without a more motivating factor, could be a little bit like a derealization. It killed desire to be physical, move around, do stuff, and gave me dry eyes, and be engaged or social with those around me.

Positives was that it improved goal oriented learning, or at least I thought it did at the time. Powered through a lot with that strange focused fog, but I seem to have lost memory of doing it. The proof is in the finished work, and I am trying to see if actually retained anything that I did while on Selegiline.

If your doctor is open to it maybe see if you can switch to rasagiline. It’s more for dopamine(MAO-B) and seems to have energy benefits I’m curious to try it as well.

https://en.m.wikiped...wiki/Rasagiline

“Rasagiline has shown efficacy in both early and advanced Parkinsons, and appears to be especially useful in dealing with non-motor symptoms like fatigue.”

Edited by John250, 10 December 2018 - 05:34 PM.

[cat-nips]

Thanks.  I may experiment with 2.5 again at some point, but I'm going away from it for now.  Unfortunately, I do feel a little worse off now, still, then before I started.  Hopefully that passes. 

 

Another post, but I agree about not liking DRI's so much as well.  And I think I have a lot of fatigue now from taking all these stupid drugs for so long and can't function anymore because of it AND without it.

 

Did Pregenelone help you?

Edited by cat-nips, 10 December 2018 - 08:35 PM.

[cat-nips]

ok thanks. i'll look into rasagaline and keep it in mind.  but I dont have PD, so not sure it would benefit so much as just going back on amps.

[cat-nips]

Maybe I'm getting it wrong, but if Nori reuptake inhibition is taking place, and higher doses of Deprenyl allow more to be produced and circulating, wouldn't this increase the pressor response?  Not sure.  

 

Let us know if you try this and of course, maintain awareness of the possibility of an interaction (watch the headaches!).  

[John250]

ok thanks. i'll look into rasagaline and keep it in mind. but I dont have PD, so not sure it would benefit so much as just going back on amps.

Selegiline is also used for PD but that’s not the only disorder it helps with. It seems Rasagiline would work better for those who respond well to amps as it’s a Mao-B. But then again who’s to say therapeutic doses of amps are not safer than MAO inhibitors,etc.

[cat-nips]

Yeah, kinda agree.

[cat-nips]

Sorry. I just saw this.  Perhaps the data has changed since.  I know MAO's can cause hypotension, but increasing additive effects with higher doses could cause it to go bad in either direction, with a dose of potential serotonin syndrome as well.  

 

Slow recovery of human brain MAO B after L-deprenyl (Selegeline) withdrawal.

Fowler JS1, Volkow ND, Logan J, Wang GJ, MacGregor RR, Schyler D, Wolf AP, Pappas N, Alexoff D, Shea C, et al.Abstract

L-Deprenyl (Selegeline) is an enzyme-activated irreversible inhibitor of monoamine oxidase B (MAO B; EC 1.4.3.4). It is used to treat Parkinson's disease at a dose of 5 mg twice a day. Since enzyme inhibition is irreversible, the recovery of functional enzyme activity after withdrawal from L-deprenyl requires the synthesis of new enzyme. We have measured a 40 day half-time for brain MAO B synthesis in Parkinson's disease and in normal subjects after withdrawal from L-deprenyl. This is the first measurement of the synthesis rate of a specific protein in the living human brain. L-Deprenyl is currently used by 50,000 patients with Parkinson's disease in the United States and its use is expected to increase with reports that it may be beneficial in Alzheimer's disease. The slow turnover of brain MAO B suggests that the current clinical dose of L-deprenyl may be excessive and that the clinical efficacy of reduced dosing should be evaluated. Such an evaluation may have mechanistic importance as well as an impact on reducing the side effects and the costs arising from excessive drug use.

PMID: 7839316 DOI: 10.1002/syn.890180203
  [Indexed for MEDLINE]

 

Edited by cat-nips, 12 December 2018 - 03:08 PM.

[John250]

I’m more curious on withdrawl from MAO’s.

[cat-nips]

Definitely think there could be and that I had some but that’s from taking it for only 6 weeks or so. I think fluctuating doses over 10mg can also cause withdrawals which was the point I was trying to express to CFW regarding loading initial doses. I started looking up DAWS stuff, because of it. It felt weird.

5mg or less would probably be ok. Idk.

Edited by cat-nips, 12 December 2018 - 10:59 PM.

[CWF1986]

I already did it just as outlined in the OP and the only thing I noticed is that it took 1 week vs 2 weeks to start working appreciably

 

I'm getting my Seleg. cheap from India.  Rasag. is very expensive so it's out of the question for me.  

 

I have read anecdotal reports on Reddit saying they don't get the same nootropic and mood benefits from rasageline(sp?).  There could be a lot of things going that would cause this.  

 

I know that parnate not only is a MAO A and B inhibitor, but it also behaves like amphetamine!  I'm just saying that these drugs can be a little more complicated than 1st glances would indicate.  

[cat-nips]

Good luck with that and keep us posted!

Also read great reviews of Parnate and the data is promising, but MAOs are out for me. I eat too much tyramine via kimchi.

Edited by cat-nips, 14 December 2018 - 01:06 AM.

[cat-nips]

Off topic but asking as you seem to have experience, what are your thoughts of vortioxetine (trintellix) or viibryd? They’re somewhat newish and at one point there were some trials.

[cat-nips]

I read once that Parnate was considered the gold standard in the social anxiety circles, but usage is low due to prescribing fears of interactions.  Ive also seen it reported as being helpful in ADHD, making it a very useful and more complete solution for many.  Interesting class, the MAOs.