5 replies to this topic

[Ovidus]

A few members have already done a Dasatinib + Quercetin protocol and their doses were considerably higher than some casual estimates people have been proposing online (by way of extrapolation from mouse studies). -at least in the cases I have come across.

 

Can you please share your dosing schedule, your precise protocol* and what you have experienced?

 

*i.e. whether you have stopped any anti-inflammatory supplements for a number of days before or if you have taken any other action to enhance the effects.

 

Thanks a lot 

[Ovidus]

I am sorry; I intended to put this in the SUPPLEMENTS section

 

Any chance a mod can move it?

 

Thanks

[OP2040]

I'd like to revive this thread, as I have a similar question.  Mine is more about dose escalation.   I'm very concerned about Dasatinib side effects.  Yes concerned even with one dose.  Does anyone think it's a good idea to dose escalate?  I think the standard dose is relatively settled at 100mg, as that has now been tested in humans.

 

Everyone keeps saying that all the scary side effects are with cancer patients who take it over years.  Rationally, I know this to be true.  But it's a very potent drug, so I keep thinking that one dose could cause issues.  Also, some of the reports here show quite dramatic effects, as opposed to the nothing you feel when you're taking something like Fisetin.  Yes, that means it's probably working, but still.  

[Fafner55]

Here are my opinions based on personal experience.

 

I have taken 120 mg dasatinib 12 times, each with different phytosubstances chosen to increase the senolytic effects. My current protocol is

1. 120 mg dasatinib (for a 70 kg individual. Scale the dose lower for lighter weight individuals but do not increase.)
2. 1200 mg quercetin phytosome
3. 1200 mg honokiol
4. 1600 mg fisetin

The only side effect I experience from this protocol is slight fatigue for about a day. A colleague of mine tried the same dosage and experienced no side effects.

 

Because of the large quantities of phytosubstances, it is sensible to spread this treatment over 2 hours. Start with any of the phytosubstances (because they take longer to enter the bloodstream) then take the dasatinib after 1 hour, and finish the remaining supplements over the next hour.

 

Treatments should be at least 4 weeks apart to allow time for the body to fully recover.

 

I suggest half doses for the first treatment since killing large numbers of senescent cells in the gastrointestinal tract could cause diarrhea. 

 

 

 

[aribadabar]

 

Because of the large quantities of phytosubstances, it is sensible to spread this treatment over 2 hours. Start with any of the phytosubstances (because they take longer to enter the bloodstream) then take the dasatinib after 1 hour, and finish the remaining supplements over the next hour.

 

Given the low bioavailability of these phytosubstances and their relatively short half-life, aren't you concerned by de-phasing their intake with D they will "miss" each other ( the botanicals on one hand and D on the other) and thus instead of synergy it turns into 2 largely non-overlapping senolytic therapies?If not, why not?

 

Thanks!

Edited by aribadabar, 24 November 2019 - 04:07 AM.

[Fafner55]

Given the low bioavailability of these phytosubstances and their relatively short half-life, aren't you concerned by de-phasing their intake with D they will "miss" each other ( the botanicals on one hand and D on the other) and thus instead of synergy it turns into 2 largely non-overlapping senolytic therapies?If not, why not?

 

Thanks!

 

I was taking higher doses of the phytosubstances and decided to back it down out of concerns over the fatigue I experienced and the possibility of excessively burdening the liver. While I don't have blood work to backup the liver concern, with each round of testing I keep a log of whether I experienced a fever, diarrhea, nausea, fatigue or if there was any skin sloughing a few days later. With the doses I suggested, I did not experience any side effects other than minor fatigue the day of the treatment.

 

With regard to pharmacokinetics, while quercetin and fisetin are known to have poor bioavailability, these and honokiol appear to have peak serum concentrations of 1 to 3 hours. Evidence is that they overlap. However, if you want to remove that concern, simply take them all at the same time.

1. http://www.quercetin...hite-Paper.pdf 
2. http://ucce.ucdavis....tore/608-67.pdf
3. “Dasatinib: is it all in the dose?” (2010) http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20222756
4. “Down-modulation of Bcl-XL, release of cytochrome c and sequential activation of caspases during honokiol-induced apoptosis in human squamous lung cancer CH27 cells” (2002) https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/12007567 
5. “Honokiol, a Constituent of Oriental Medicinal Herb Magnolia officinalis, Inhibits Growth of PC-3 Xenografts In vivo in Association with Apoptosis Induction” (2008) http://clincancerres.../1248.full.pdf 
6. “Fisetin, a dietary flavonoid, induces apoptosis of cancer cells by inhibiting HSF1 activity through blocking its binding to the hsp70 promoter” (2015) https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25840992
7. “New agents that target senescent cells: the flavone, fisetin, and the BCL-XL inhibitors, A1331852 and A1155463” (2017) https://www.ncbi.nlm...es/PMC5391241/