39 replies to this topic

[doug123]

Yeah, comparing that with the Ortho Mind makes that product look pretty weak -- as a cognition enhancer. And I am also sure AOR uses the best ingredients in their "mixed bag" products -- I used to not know for sure -- but once MR amazed me by displaying evidence that suggests many supplement products may be low in purity or contaminated -- I always think twice before purchasing supplements -- and I prefer to use companies that have serious QC, such as AOR.

http://www.imminst.o...t=0

See this: under quality:

http://www.acsu.buff...etyefficacy.htm

Besides what shepard and FunkOdyssey pointed out is relevant -- I would be sketched out taking brands I wasn't sure of the quality of the individual constituents. The supplement market is not regulated at all -- so it's anyone's guess what you get in the finished product:

http://jpp.sagepub.c...stract/18/3/188


Journal of Pharmacy Practice, Vol. 18, No. 3, 188-208 (2005)
DOI: 10.1177/0897190005277217
© 2005 SAGE Publications
This Article
Herbal Product Contamination and Toxicity
Susan C. Smolinske, PharmD, DABAT


Children's Hospital of Michigan Regional Poison Control Center, Wayne
State University, College of Medicine, Department of Pediatrics,
Detroit, Michigan


Herbal poisoning exposures reported to poison centers increased by 344%
after passage of the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act, with
24412 exposures reported in 2003. Increased toxicity is speculated to
be related to lack of child-resistant packaging, new issues of
contamination, proliferation of multiple ingredient products, excessive
concentration of active ingredients, and discovery of new drug-herb
interactions. This review addresses contamination issues such as heavy
metals, pharmaceuticals, homeopathic remedies, microbes, insects,
environmental chemicals, and mis-identification of one plant for
another. Toxicity issues covered include carcinogenicity, delay in
seeking medical treatment when using herbs to treat serious illness,
toxic components, hypersensitivity reactions, hepatotoxins,
nephrotoxins, epileptogenic compounds, cardiac toxins, gastrointestinal
toxins, and hematologic toxins. Common drug-herb interactions are
discussed. The pharmacist plays an important role in patient education
and evaluation of potential toxicities related to herbal supplements.

Peace.

[turbo]

Looks okay. A few things for thought:

Vinpocetine is best absorbed with food.
Bacopa/L-Tyrosine is best absorbed without.
It doesn't note what the amount of standardized bacosides.
Long term use of Huperzine A might not be the best idea, theoretically.

You might want to swap around after being on Cerebral for a couple of months....take a 1-2 week break and try a different formula to see which works best for you and your father.

i got a bottle for each of us; supposed to last 30 days, will probably last 45 - 60 based on usage, but we'll see. afterwards i am sure we will try somethign else.

yeah, it didn't specify ginkgo flavinoids (sp?) and terpenes or bacosides, but the dosages of both were solid enough that it didn't worry me ( i mean if it's a total joke like 5% bacosides then that's too bad, but even if it's on the lower end of the 'usual' spectrum, just being at 500mg per serving should be fine.

please elaborate on the huperzine a long term thoughts. i have a customer at my vitamin store who has taken nothign but that (as far as noots) for a long, long time (i get the impression it's been years), and seems sharp for his age (after typing that last bit i realized that means absolutely nothing at all, but that's okay).

yes, the alcar is small, but despite being below acceptable dosages, sometimes things are still useful. i still like that my multi has 25mg of ala, despite knowing how small that is. i'm really not interested in high dose alcar (i know it should be safe in tandem with high dose rla, but years back it was thought to be safe by itself, and turned out to be a free radical nightmare when taken alone. i know we currently think we have found a good way, but maybe in 5 or 10 more years i'll come around.). That being said, i wouldn't mind taking a small amount. anyways, to get a good amount a formula (well, a responsible formula) would need to include a lot of rla, which would skyrocket the price. soooo, for a product to fit my criteria (one of which is price), it really can't have rla in it, which means no alcar, but if it's such a small amount then i can deal, i'm sure the mega dose antioxidants in the two different types of multivitamins i take (no, i do not personally, or endorse, double dosing vitamins. i use two different kinds, varying back and forth through the day. one is a two pill serving, one a three pill serving. i usually have 1 of the 2 pill servings and either 1 or 2 of the 3 pill serving ones (that one isn't as potent so going a little over with that one is fine). anyways my point is i'm sure the giant doses of c, e, ala, greens mixes, my food, etc etc etc can deal with such a minute amount of alcar

[Shepard]

Here is a decent read on the theories regarding inhibiting acetylcholinesterase in the long-term.

http://www.imminst.o...9&t=5072&hl=&s=

[turbo]

Looks okay. A few things for thought:

Vinpocetine is best absorbed with food.
Bacopa/L-Tyrosine is best absorbed without.
It doesn't note what the amount of standardized bacosides.
Long term use of Huperzine A might not be the best idea, theoretically.

You might want to swap around after being on Cerebral for a couple of months....take a 1-2 week break and try a different formula to see which works best for you and your father.

for information's sake it is 20% bacosides (order just came in).

i'll probably use a bottle or two then find something else. yeah i know that it's tough to do premades, and there are so many advantages to mixing thigns up and dosing separate ingredients at separate times, and with and without food, but the obvious con to that approach is time wasted/inconvenience, and that puts that out of my options. i tried the bulk powder approach and trying to dose thigns all the time was such a pain. this way i have a bottle and i take pills, real easy (if i weren't taking anything else i'm sure i wouldn't mind the inconvenience as much, but i take so much other stuff for lifting/life that i don't want to add like 5 new supplements to the roster, i'd rather take a single pill)

long term use of huperzine is potentially not bad, but this is only 5micros per 5 pills, and i prolly won't even use the full 5 pill serving, so hopefully not too bad (considering the type of supplements we're talking about it is really anybody's guess as to what will turn out to be safe and effective and what will be unsafe/ineffective. how few years ago were people downing alcar without any increased antioxidants? )

[doug123]

Hey turbo, I'm getting ready to hit the gym now -- so I'll get to this after I return. Abour our private message topic too, but privately, dude.

Peace.

[exigentsky]

I would suggest the Xtend-Life Neuro-Natural Memory formula. However, it does contain DMAE. (imo that's a good thing)

[turbo]

can you link it or give descript? i already ordered my stuff but am still curious

[turbo]

ahh don't worry about it exigentsky....

[djh1208]

Hi Turbo,
I'd check out this website : www.semax-international.com
This product is clinically documented and has an excellent track record

[ellobo]

Hello World! (This my first message, that means.)

I have been looking for pre-made formulas, and have found this old thread...

What about Nutra Origin Cognizin?

Per serving (six capsules):

Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) Extract [standardized to 8% withanolide glycoside conjugates and 32% oligosaccharides] (root and leaves) 150 mg **
Bacopa Extract [standardized to 50% bacosides] (aerial part) 300 mg **
Eleuthero Root Extract (Eleutherococcus senticosus) [standardized to 0.8% eleutherosides] 150 mg **
Ginkgo Extract [standardized to 24% ginkgo flavonglycosides and 6% terpene lactones] (leaves) 300 mg **
Vinpocetine 30 mg **
ALA (Alpha-lipoic acid) 300 mg **
Citicoline (Cytidine 5-diphosphocholine) 600 mg **
ALC (Acetyl-L-carnitine) 400 mg **
Phosphatidylserine 200 mg **
Huperzine A 0.4 mg **
NADH (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide) 3 mg

Is this brand reputable? Would this be a good alternative vs. the discontinued Ortho Mind?

Edited by ellobo, 30 January 2011 - 07:22 PM.