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Muscle damage because of C60?

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#1 Redbulloid

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 11:51 AM


Hello all,

 

Second time I am starting C60 and for the second time I am getting issue with muscles. Both cases happened in 3-4 days of usage. First time it was myositis at the back and now it is inflammation (feels similar to myositis) of some small muscle on pelvis. I am practicing martial arts all the time, but never had this. Might be coincidence, but unlikely. There was no specific trauma related to this. It took about 3 month for myositis to go away. 

 

Any thought on this? Did anyone was practicing sports on C60 or does anyone know athletes who had such issues?

 

 



#2 Hebbeh

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 11:59 AM

Did you mix your own?  And if so, what C60 did you use and how did you mix it and store it?  If you bought a premixed commercial product, who manufactured it?


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#3 AdamI

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:01 PM

I have noticed that I can push myself a lot harder in the gym when I take c60, so might just because u actually train a lot harder on c60 which then leads to a inflammation?

I know other people say they can push themselves a lot harder as well...


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#4 Redbulloid

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:44 PM

Did you mix your own?  And if so, what C60 did you use and how did you mix it and store it?  If you bought a premixed commercial product, who manufactured it?

Both commercial. First one - Buckylabs, second - SES. Storage is as per instructions.


I have noticed that I can push myself a lot harder in the gym when I take c60, so might just because u actually train a lot harder on c60 which then leads to a inflammation?

I know other people say they can push themselves a lot harder as well...

Maybe. Thanks. For me it also increased performance and recovery. Training was average though. Not too hard.



#5 Mind

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 06:02 PM

Who knows for sure. There has never been a double blind human study of C60oo supplementation. It is kind-of the "wild west".


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#6 Heisok

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 10:57 PM

During the early days of use reported here on Longecity, there was talk of injuries. Sample with other posts below it in the thread. There have been other comments, but the thread should give an idea.

 

https://www.longecit...o-pain-no-gain/

 

 

I have had the same result, and have been taking C60 for some months now.

 

However, if you are lifting heavy weights, the lack of a burn is problematic, as it is a warning signal not to over-exert yourself.

 

I got myself into trouble, as I found I could do high reps of very heavy weights, with no burn.....I just reached a point where I could no longer lift the weight.....but no pain.........and I really enjoyed this...and ended up with an irritated tendon in my arm, which took over 9 months to get back to normal.

 

I now do much shorter sets.

 

I did not notice C60 impacting negatively on muscle growth.

 

 

 

 


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#7 Redbulloid

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 09:44 AM

Who knows for sure. There has never been a double blind human study of C60oo supplementation. It is kind-of the "wild west".

I see that guys in Kiyv in Taras Schevchenko University are performing a lot of human-based studies. Maybe someone knows them and can ask for studies that community needs? I am in Kiyv often and can help with funding. It is way less regulation in Ukraine.

 

Sample study with list of names - https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29940354

 

My message may be bit off-topic, sorry )



#8 Turnbuckle

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 12:33 PM

Given the small affected area in the OP and the long time it took for it to heal, this may be a tendon/ligament injury. This has been common with C60 use as C60 appears to increase muscle output while doing little to strengthen tendons and ligaments.


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#9 platypus

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 12:47 PM

Given the small affected area in the OP and the long time it took for it to heal, this may be a tendon/ligament injury. This has been common with C60 use as C60 appears to increase muscle output while doing little to strengthen tendons and ligaments.

BTW are you still using C60, even occasionally Turnbuckle? 



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#10 Turnbuckle

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 01:07 PM

BTW are you still using C60, even occasionally Turnbuckle? 

 

 

Yes, I use it once every 2-4 weeks. And if you use it, I strongly suggest you use it responsibly. C60 appears to stimulate stem cells, and if you use it without precautions, you could use them up. Use it correctly, however, and you can increase your stem cell pools. See the following thread--

 

https://www.longecit...newal-with-c60/



#11 platypus

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 03:28 PM

C60 appears to stimulate stem cells, and if you use it without precautions, you could use them up. 

Hmm any anecdotal reports of this? Some people have guzzled C60OO in huge amounts, some of them daily, at least for a period. 



#12 Turnbuckle

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 05:35 PM

Hmm any anecdotal reports of this? Some people have guzzled C60OO in huge amounts, some of them daily, at least for a period. 

 

A number have seen fading of results, as though stem cells are being used up. And even though asymmetric division would suggest that stem cells are not used up, this is simply not the case. The right way to use C60 is with a state of mito fusion. Stearic acid forces mitochondria into fusion, but you can't just chew it up, as one person thought. As a result, C60 appeared to age him. See this post -- https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=862225


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#13 Redbulloid

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 06:54 PM

Yes, I use it once every 2-4 weeks. And if you use it, I strongly suggest you use it responsibly. C60 appears to stimulate stem cells, and if you use it without precautions, you could use them up. Use it correctly, however, and you can increase your stem cell pools. See the following thread--

 

https://www.longecit...newal-with-c60/

Turnbuckle, do you think stearic acid should be 'food grade' or it does not matter? I bought some for myself, but it says it is for usage in cosmetics.


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#14 BieraK

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 01:13 AM

Another c60 Fusion "supplement": Sulforaphane.

 

c60 apparently is not only a mitochondrial ROS scavenger as MitoQ, it also stimulates stem cells.



#15 ambivalent

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:06 PM

A number have seen fading of results, as though stem cells are being used up. And even though asymmetric division would suggest that stem cells are not used up, this is simply not the case. The right way to use C60 is with a state of mito fusion. Stearic acid forces mitochondria into fusion, but you can't just chew it up, as one person thought. As a result, C60 appeared to age him. See this post -- https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=862225

 

That would seem to be something of an outlier, its tough to say that it aged him, he just apeared rather sick on it and such effects have rarely been reported. A lot of peope appear to have ok on large doses over large periods of time, I've certainly not noticed a Dorian Grey effect despite high doses periods (I have had considerable breaks). That said, with your caution in mind, I wouldn't take high doses of c60, without minding stem-cell repletion.

 

Would you be able to explain the reason why asymmetric division doesn't maintain the stem cell pool, it is something that is as you reason confusing. In addition one other curiosity is the need for c60 in your stem cell renewal protocol (apart from expediency) - if I took stearic acid regularly for months, wouldn't the stem cell pool just keep growing and the body slowly adapt to this bounty of stem cells and regenerate, just more slowly? I'm out of c60 currently, but am thinking of using stearic acid + allicin having just taken a high dose of fisetin.  

 

Thanks.


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#16 Wilberforce

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 03:35 PM

After 5+ years on and off C60, recently I'm starting to correlate taking it with sciatica the following day.  I have a stenosis in the lower back which doesn't bother me other times.



#17 Turnbuckle

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 05:48 PM

That would seem to be something of an outlier, its tough to say that it aged him, he just apeared rather sick on it and such effects have rarely been reported. A lot of peope appear to have ok on large doses over large periods of time, I've certainly not noticed a Dorian Grey effect despite high doses periods (I have had considerable breaks). That said, with your caution in mind, I wouldn't take high doses of c60, without minding stem-cell repletion.

 

Would you be able to explain the reason why asymmetric division doesn't maintain the stem cell pool, it is something that is as you reason confusing. In addition one other curiosity is the need for c60 in your stem cell renewal protocol (apart from expediency) - if I took stearic acid regularly for months, wouldn't the stem cell pool just keep growing and the body slowly adapt to this bounty of stem cells and regenerate, just more slowly? I'm out of c60 currently, but am thinking of using stearic acid + allicin having just taken a high dose of fisetin.  

 

Thanks.

 

Proliferation of stem cells (SCs) require throwing two mito switches: (1) fusion for biasing SC division to self-renewal and (2) a UCP2 blocker to banish SC quiescence. Thus stearic acid alone won't do it, and you shouldn't take stearic acid on a regular basis. There appear to be homeostatic mechanisms to prevent stem cell numbers from getting out of control, thus while aging may not reduce the stem cell pool size, but the portion of functional stem cells continuously declines while the portion of senescent stem cells increases. Thus forcing the pool to grow will (hopefully) result in culling of SCs and a reduction of the senescent portion.

 

Tissue‐specific stem cell (TSC) number is tightly regulated in normal individuals...

https://stemcellsjou....1002/stem.1440

 


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#18 dlewis1453

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 03:49 PM

"That would seem to be something of an outlier, its tough to say that it aged him, he just appeared rather sick on it and such effects have rarely been reported."

 

.....

 

"if I took stearic acid regularly for months, wouldn't the stem cell pool just keep growing and the body slowly adapt to this bounty of stem cells and regenerate, just more slowly?" 

 

 

 

 I agree with your first statement that that individual simply appeared sick on C60. We don't know much about him, but he seemed to be affected too quickly for his side effects to have been caused by stem cell depletion. In his case, I think its more likely that he was ingesting either poorly made C60, or C60 that was old or left out in sunlight. He was also consuming other exotic substances such as NSI-189, so who knows if his effects were even caused by C60 at all. 

 

Regarding your second statement, as Turnbuckle stated, stearic acid alone is insufficient. You first need stearic acid (to induce fusion) and then c60 (to block the ucp pores on the  mitochondria of stem cells). See the quote below that I took from one of Turnbuckle's earlier posts, which he took from a scientific paper. 

 

"Here, we show that hPSCs [human pluripotent stem cells] have functional respiratory complexes that are able to consume O(2) at maximal capacity. Despite this, ATP generation in hPSCs is mainly by glycolysis and ATP is consumed by the F(1)F(0) ATP synthase to partially maintain hPSC mitochondrial membrane potential and cell viability. Uncoupling protein 2 (UCP2) plays a regulating role in hPSC energy metabolism by preventing mitochondrial glucose oxidation and facilitating glycolysis via a substrate shunting mechanism. With early differentiation, hPSC proliferation slows, energy metabolism decreases, and UCP2 is repressed, resulting in decreased glycolysis and maintained or increased mitochondrial glucose oxidation. Ectopic UCP2 expression perturbs this metabolic transition and impairs hPSC differentiation. Overall, hPSCs contain active mitochondria and require UCP2 repression for full differentiation potential."

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22085932



#19 Rocket

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 01:19 AM

C60 has been good for me and inflammation and I exercise very hard in the gym. I broke the 300lb plateau on C60 and benching. No ill effects with muscles at all. I would imagine its a coincidence. The only weird thing that happened to me is developed a small cyst that docs said is best to leave alone. But again it must be coincidence as I don't know by what mechanism C60 would cause that.

On this forum we are all on weird stuff and when something happens that would happen anyway we blame the supps.

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#20 ambivalent

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 04:43 PM

TB, Dlewis.

 

It certainly makes sense if Turnbuckles' theory is true that stearic acid is not enough to generate those early stage effects witnessed by users of c60oo. But there must be an endogenous process to knock the stem cells out of quiescence* too, just not the avalanche effect of c60oo. So if stearic acid repletes stem cell levels why wouldn't the body adapt to this new found wealth and spend it rather more prudently over time, than an under c60 stimulated environment?  

 

Thanks for the explanation as to why asymmetric division of stem cells still results in depleted stem cell levels, Turnbuckle. I feel rather stupid, I just hadn't put 'stem cells' and 'senescence' together - are there any senolytics which you might theorise would induce senescent stem cell clearance? 

 

 

*otherwise they'd just stay dormant, surely.







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