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Seeking advice on a few supplements I'm considering buying

supplements buying advice spirulina chlorella lions mane

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#1 nooguyz

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:52 PM


I'm considering buying a few supplements, and I want to ask about them before I spend money on them, and to put a nail in my research.
 
1. Lion's Mane fruiting body, planning to take 1-2g/day for purposes of neural regeneration (so possibly memory improvement), longevity, reduce inflammation, anxiety and depression, reduce general fatigue (CFS?)
2. Spirulina, I'm a bit iffy about neurotoxin (BMAA) even in EU certified organic products. Thoughts? Mainly considering for detox and cell repair
3. Chlorella, also a bit iffy about neurotoxin. Main reasons are the same.
4. Goji berries, not sure if low amounts (5-10g) would do anything?
5. Cacao nibs, same as Goji berries. Thoughts?
6. Holy Basil, same worry about the low amount, and if taken in powder form (not an extract). Thoughts?
 
My goals are cell repair, brain regeneration, reduction of depression and apathy, by using cheaper and natural powder forms of supplements.
 
I'm not on any medication, but depression and especially apathy has been a big part of my life, and I want to do something about it. Coffee can help, but I grow tolerance too quickly. Nicotine also helps especially if combined with coffee, but not long term it gets too much.
 
I also feel like my body needs to "repair", and I feel like my memory isn't that good anymore, and I don't know why. That shouldn't happen yet at 30.
 
Please ask anything, I'm really hoping for some advice here! :)

Edited by nooguyz, 20 June 2019 - 09:53 PM.


#2 Bruce Klein

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 03:11 PM

Have you researched diet and/or fasting? 



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#3 nooguyz

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 03:45 PM

Have you researched diet and/or fasting? 

Yes, I have experimented with it, cutting out some foods definitely helped and I feel generally healthier when I fast periodically.



#4 GABAergic

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 10:35 PM

what the other guy said. just change diet and do not waste time/money on those supplements. i personally tried them all and they might give you gas but they wont "repair" anything in your body that isnt there to repair itself already given the right nutrients.

for this part "My goals are cell repair, brain regeneration, reduction of depression and apathy" you will likely need medications, particularly something potent and useful like ketamine for depression and apathy or maybe even psychedelics. and for the cell repair and brain regeneration depending on how severe it is, you might need stem cell therapy or just rely on good diet and have the nutrients do the most they can.

anyway, main point being, DO NOT WASTE TIME AND MONEY ON SUPPLEMENTS.


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#5 nooguyz

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 11:41 PM

what the other guy said. just change diet and do not waste time/money on those supplements. i personally tried them all and they might give you gas but they wont "repair" anything in your body that isnt there to repair itself already given the right nutrients.

for this part "My goals are cell repair, brain regeneration, reduction of depression and apathy" you will likely need medications, particularly something potent and useful like ketamine for depression and apathy or maybe even psychedelics. and for the cell repair and brain regeneration depending on how severe it is, you might need stem cell therapy or just rely on good diet and have the nutrients do the most they can.

anyway, main point being, DO NOT WASTE TIME AND MONEY ON SUPPLEMENTS.

By that logic, this forum shouldn't even exist.

 

I came here for a reason, which is why this forum is here - to help people in need of help and advice on supplements. I'm sticking with natural substances (aforementioned or otherwise), such as herb, root and mushroom powders, thank you.



#6 Bruce Klein

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 01:40 AM

Diet is important...

 

Certainly wouldn't dismiss all supplements.

 

Research and experimentation can prove beneficial.

 

Protocol response is different between individuals. 

 

There are others...

but Nicotinamide Riboside has been discussed here extensively for good reason: 

 

"NAD+ in DNA repair and mitochondrial maintenance"

https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC5384578

 


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#7 Bruce Klein

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 01:49 AM

I also feel like my body needs to "repair", and I feel like my memory isn't that good anymore, and I don't know why. That shouldn't happen yet at 30.

 

 

Ketogenic Diet Shows Promising Results for All Dementia Stages (Feb 2019)

Edited by Bruce Klein, 22 June 2019 - 01:59 AM.


#8 Bruce Klein

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 01:58 AM

There's one part of this UHN keto article where I tend to disagree...

 

"Consume only enough dietary protein to meet your daily needs from high-quality, nutrient-dense sources. These include grass-fed meats, wild-caught fish, and pastured eggs."

 

I may post a more researched piece on this soon.. but I tend to see most of the "high-protein is bad" articles based on non-keto adapted individual studies. It can take up to 6 or 12 weeks to become keto adapted. 

 

 



#9 pamojja

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 11:32 AM

 

1. Lion's Mane fruiting body, planning to take 1-2g/day for purposes of neural regeneration (so possibly memory improvement), longevity, reduce inflammation, anxiety and depression, reduce general fatigue (CFS?)
2. Spirulina, I'm a bit iffy about neurotoxin (BMAA) even in EU certified organic products. Thoughts? Mainly considering for detox and cell repair
3. Chlorella, also a bit iffy about neurotoxin. Main reasons are the same.
4. Goji berries, not sure if low amounts (5-10g) would do anything?
5. Cacao nibs, same as Goji berries. Thoughts?
6. Holy Basil, same worry about the low amount, and if taken in powder form (not an extract). Thoughts?

 

It's difficult to distill what you might expect from these, by asking others about their experiences. Simply because every one might get different results depending on their own different bio-chemical individuality. I do very well on all of them (though only use pure cacao powder). The only way do know if they do anything for you, is to trial each of them.

 

However, in my case with severe chronic conditions I did need to supplement all nutrients, commonly deficient in the general population, (with rather high dose supplements), to experience repair and remissions.



#10 nooguyz

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 02:06 PM

Diet is important...

 

Certainly wouldn't dismiss all supplements.

 

Research and experimentation can prove beneficial.

 

Protocol response is different between individuals. 

 

There are others...

but Nicotinamide Riboside has been discussed here extensively for good reason: 

 

"NAD+ in DNA repair and mitochondrial maintenance"

https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC5384578

I agree that diet is important. I would appreciate advice on that, but I have little choice with my diet due to circumstances in my life at the moment.

 

 

 

Ketogenic Diet Shows Promising Results for All Dementia Stages (Feb 2019)

 

I have tried ketogenic diet for some time (long enough to adapt), but I felt worse and worse. I couldn't afford organic meat and I always feel worse after I eat meat. Fish is too expensive to be eaten on regular basis and I can't eat most of it, I also don't do well with eggs either. So my keto options are limited both due to money required to be spent on a daily basis and because of my intolerance towards most animal proteins.

 

There's one part of this UHN keto article where I tend to disagree...

 

"Consume only enough dietary protein to meet your daily needs from high-quality, nutrient-dense sources. These include grass-fed meats, wild-caught fish, and pastured eggs."

 

I may post a more researched piece on this soon.. but I tend to see most of the "high-protein is bad" articles based on non-keto adapted individual studies. It can take up to 6 or 12 weeks to become keto adapted. 

As I mentioned above, we can exclude anything wild caught, grass fed, or even close to organic. I haven't tried eating such products on regular basis so I don't know if I would react the same to them as I react to commercial animal proteins, and I can't afford to consume it on a regular basis. I would be able to afford supplements however because it's a lot cheaper.

 

It's difficult to distill what you might expect from these, by asking others about their experiences. Simply because every one might get different results depending on their own different bio-chemical individuality. I do very well on all of them (though only use pure cacao powder). The only way do know if they do anything for you, is to trial each of them.

 

However, in my case with severe chronic conditions I did need to supplement all nutrients, commonly deficient in the general population, (with rather high dose supplements), to experience repair and remissions.

That's a great point on individual biochemistry, however don't supplements have general range of efficacy on a range of benefits? For example some supplements might be less effective on one individual and more effective on another, but generally they affect dopamine receptors (as an example).

 

If that's correct, I'm trying to gauge the general consensus here, because I can't afford expensive shipping prices for a small amount of a supplement to test it. I want to buy as much as I can afford, a few months supply, of supplements that are likely to work well for me, then I would save a lot on shipping, or that's my plan...

 

Speaking of nutrition, I do agree that it's important. I'm doing the best I can with my current life situation regarding foods. I haven't had the SAD diet, I'm European, I eat home cooked meals prepared by me, and they usually include vegetables and grains (I can't tolerate dairy, animal protein, eggs, fish, gluten), sometimes I have some fruit and nuts as well, but not often because they are as expensive as a supplement such as cocoa nibs, or even more expensive depending on what it is. And I think for example Chlorella or Spirulina (except for BMAA) would be a lot healthier to take on a daily basis than having 3 nuts a day.

 

But in short, I am sure that I am deficient in some things (and I am taking certain micronutrients as supplements already), but overall I get alright kind of nutrition. Feel free to offer advice or ask questions though, maybe there is something that I can adjust without increasing my daily food expenditure that would improve my situation further?

 

I also try to work out as much as I can, but generally I'm very low on energy and I feel fatigued (especially mentally) very often. That's what I find most tiring - being mentally fatigued, because my brain capacity is very important to me. And losing memory recall also bothers me a lot, especially being still young...



#11 pamojja

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 04:33 PM

 

My goals are cell repair, brain regeneration, reduction of depression and apathy, ..

 

 

...however don't supplements have general range of efficacy on a range of benefits? For example some supplements might be less effective on one individual and more effective on another, but generally they affect dopamine receptors (as an example).

 

Take me as example: don't have any depression, apathy or anxiety. How would I even recognize these natural compounds would affect my dopamine receptors? I don't feel anything like that from them. But have taken most of them (except Lion's Mane, because a bid too expensive) for many years.

 

On the other hand, I did have a alphabet soup of diagnosis: PAD2, COPD1, T2D, CKD1, NAFLD, CFS. And I did experience remissions with diet, supplementation and life-style changes, the main one a 60% walking-disability from PAD.

 

That's how completely differently everyone might be affected, with also different health-condition at the outset. For example, holy basil is really great for me diseased lungs. Take it as organic tea, powder and herbal extract.

 

 

I would be able to afford supplements however because it's a lot cheaper.

 

With disability, of course, the value of any money becomes questionable anyway. Don't spend much more than 200,- a month for mostly organically produced foods (at least such as the dirty dozens, or any animal products), but even 500,-/month for comprehensive supplementation (together about 60% of my income, the rest is for the rent of a flat). Still not depressed, on the contrary.. excited about my greatest investment in life: my own health.


Edited by pamojja, 22 June 2019 - 04:34 PM.


#12 Bruce Klein

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 07:19 PM

Certainly wouldn't eat grains... could be part of the problem. 

 

QUOTE: "I can't tolerate dairy, animal protein, eggs, fish, gluten"

 

Fish... really?

Have you looked into simple canned fish or shellfish?

Nothing added (other than water and salt). 

 

Fish (without any toppings and such) is usually well tolerated... 

Eating mostly canned fish has lowered my caloric requirement somewhat. 

I find tuna dry... but Spanish Mackerel is quite good straight from the can: 

 

https://www.walmart....oz-Can/47241085

 

https://www.amazon.c...EEK0XFSKFQQSPY8

 

At around $2 or less per can...

Most days I eat less than $10 total... especially if eating in a 4 to 6 hour window.


Edited by Bruce Klein, 22 June 2019 - 07:30 PM.

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#13 joesixpack

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 06:04 AM

I agree that diet is important. I would appreciate advice on that, but I have little choice with my diet due to circumstances in my life at the moment.

 

I have tried ketogenic diet for some time (long enough to adapt), but I felt worse and worse. I couldn't afford organic meat and I always feel worse after I eat meat. Fish is too expensive to be eaten on regular basis and I can't eat most of it, I also don't do well with eggs either. So my keto options are limited both due to money required to be spent on a daily basis and because of my intolerance towards most animal proteins.

 

As I mentioned above, we can exclude anything wild caught, grass fed, or even close to organic. I haven't tried eating such products on regular basis so I don't know if I would react the same to them as I react to commercial animal proteins, and I can't afford to consume it on a regular basis. I would be able to afford supplements however because it's a lot cheaper.

 

That's a great point on individual biochemistry, however don't supplements have general range of efficacy on a range of benefits? For example some supplements might be less effective on one individual and more effective on another, but generally they affect dopamine receptors (as an example).

 

If that's correct, I'm trying to gauge the general consensus here, because I can't afford expensive shipping prices for a small amount of a supplement to test it. I want to buy as much as I can afford, a few months supply, of supplements that are likely to work well for me, then I would save a lot on shipping, or that's my plan...

 

Speaking of nutrition, I do agree that it's important. I'm doing the best I can with my current life situation regarding foods. I haven't had the SAD diet, I'm European, I eat home cooked meals prepared by me, and they usually include vegetables and grains (I can't tolerate dairy, animal protein, eggs, fish, gluten), sometimes I have some fruit and nuts as well, but not often because they are as expensive as a supplement such as cocoa nibs, or even more expensive depending on what it is. And I think for example Chlorella or Spirulina (except for BMAA) would be a lot healthier to take on a daily basis than having 3 nuts a day.

 

But in short, I am sure that I am deficient in some things (and I am taking certain micronutrients as supplements already), but overall I get alright kind of nutrition. Feel free to offer advice or ask questions though, maybe there is something that I can adjust without increasing my daily food expenditure that would improve my situation further?

 

I also try to work out as much as I can, but generally I'm very low on energy and I feel fatigued (especially mentally) very often. That's what I find most tiring - being mentally fatigued, because my brain capacity is very important to me. And losing memory recall also bothers me a lot, especially being still young...

Based on all of this, you may want to visit a Doctor and ask for a Thyroid Stimulating Hormone test. The test is not expensive and can let you know if you have a thyroid  problem.



#14 nooguyz

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 01:34 PM

Take me as example: don't have any depression, apathy or anxiety. How would I even recognize these natural compounds would affect my dopamine receptors? I don't feel anything like that from them. But have taken most of them (except Lion's Mane, because a bid too expensive) for many years.

 

On the other hand, I did have a alphabet soup of diagnosis: PAD2, COPD1, T2D, CKD1, NAFLD, CFS. And I did experience remissions with diet, supplementation and life-style changes, the main one a 60% walking-disability from PAD.

 

That's how completely differently everyone might be affected, with also different health-condition at the outset. For example, holy basil is really great for me diseased lungs. Take it as organic tea, powder and herbal extract.

 

 

With disability, of course, the value of any money becomes questionable anyway. Don't spend much more than 200,- a month for mostly organically produced foods (at least such as the dirty dozens, or any animal products), but even 500,-/month for comprehensive supplementation (together about 60% of my income, the rest is for the rent of a flat). Still not depressed, on the contrary.. excited about my greatest investment in life: my own health.

That's very true! Though I am guessing that there's people here with dopamine problems as well who have tried the supplements, or people who know people who tried it. But for CFS, I have that as well. Sometimes it goes, but usually it's there. Today for example I slept for around 11 hours and I still feel tired and low on energy, and my mental energy is so low that I don't want to do anything and can't think well. What helped you with that the most would you say?
 
As for the amount money, my budget is a lot lower than that. I was going to calculate something like 60% for supplements and the rest for food (after rent). I don't spend money on other things except when I really need something, then I cut down on food expenditure.
 
But I agree that with disabilities money loses its worth in some way, you just want to fix yourself and feel better. That's what I'm after right now too, that's why I'm looking at supplements even after trying dietary and lifestyle changes.
 
My biggest improvement was to cut out coffee and black tea completely, now I just drink water, but sometimes it feels so boring, so I will be ordering some kind of tea (still don't know which) for those times.
 
That was followed by dietary changes of course, to cut out anything processed and any animal products.
 
After that it was being active at least a few times a week, I feel like it gets the blood flow going.
 
But I still have severe problems with fatigue and inability to just get up and do something. No motivation, no get up and go, and sometimes very low moods too.

 

Certainly wouldn't eat grains... could be part of the problem. 

 

QUOTE: "I can't tolerate dairy, animal protein, eggs, fish, gluten"

 

Fish... really?

Have you looked into simple canned fish or shellfish?

Nothing added (other than water and salt). 

 

Fish (without any toppings and such) is usually well tolerated... 

Eating mostly canned fish has lowered my caloric requirement somewhat. 

I find tuna dry... but Spanish Mackerel is quite good straight from the can: 

 

https://www.walmart....oz-Can/47241085

 

https://www.amazon.c...EEK0XFSKFQQSPY8

 

At around $2 or less per can...

Most days I eat less than $10 total... especially if eating in a 4 to 6 hour window.

Why do you say that grains could be a part of the problem specifically?
 
I do okay with only a couple of grains (haven't tried exotic ones like Amarath though), other grains I have problems with as well. They are gluten free, but maybe they ARE part of the problem?
 
My reason for eating grains is that I cannot get calories within my budget otherwise unless I drank oil by mouthful. Vegetables contain little calories and I can't eat potatoes (maybe because they're nightshades? I don't do well with paprikas either), every other vegetable that is higher in calories costs too much to eat in high amounts daily.
 
So I had to come up with something, and some grains seem to be okay with my system.
 
About fish, I do better with some fish than others, but I still have problems even with the small 5cm long canned sardines (least problems of all fish I've tried). Shellfish I don't know because I can't afford to eat it regularly. It's 50-70eu/kg. I could eat a teaspoon a day? I did have problems with mackerel though, even though I find it very tasty.
 
Also I'm European, not American, so some things cost a lot more than others here, same like in the US.
 
Thank you for advice though!

 

Based on all of this, you may want to visit a Doctor and ask for a Thyroid Stimulating Hormone test. The test is not expensive and can let you know if you have a thyroid  problem.

I had hypothyroid, but it has gotten a lot better since I started taking reishi and cordyceps regularly, and especially after cutting out all animal and any processed products. I used to be so cold that I shaked in a sweater in 25-27C sitting, now I'm fine in 22C with a shirt. I also feel less depressed and have slightly more energy than I used to. My main problems now are apathy, lack of motivation, inability to get up and go, very bad memory, and general lack of energy. Better on some days than others. Feeling sad comes around sometimes without a reason, but not every day like it used to.

 

I have other physical problems but my mental state is a lot more important to me so I'm not focusing on them, and with the supplements they should improve as a side effect.



#15 pamojja

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 08:08 PM

But for CFS, I have that as well. Sometimes it goes, but usually it's there. Today for example I slept for around 11 hours and I still feel tired and low on energy, and my mental energy is so low that I don't want to do anything and can't think well. What helped you with that the most would you say?

 

Again, it took me 6 years of life-style changes and comprehensive supplementation to get rid of my walking-disability. Only after I realized that post-exertional malaise (PEM) remained as the worst debilitating symptom (exhaustion, back-pain and concentration difficulties), often lasting through the whole week till I had a full day of rest to recover. 10 hrs unrefreshed sleep every day was my minimum too. No social life left.

 

First of all I had to quit one of my part-time jobs, to properly being enabled to pace extensively. Second, got my only root-canal extracted, done against my explicit wish just before my PAD diagnosis. And finally found a GP who would give me inexpensive Mg-sulfate IVs, with which it was finally possible to start to reverse a runaway Mg-deficiency, which on up to 2.4 g/d of oral elemental supplemental Mg only worsened before. Along with continuing all supplements and clean diet. No PEM since. I honestly think just one intervention left out, and it wouldn't have worked.

 

My biggest improvement was to cut out coffee and black tea completely, now I just drink water, but sometimes it feels so boring, so I will be ordering some kind of tea (still don't know which) for those times.

 

Personally I do well with coffee or tea. But there are great herbal teas too, like holy basil.



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#16 nooguyz

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:51 AM

Again, it took me 6 years of life-style changes and comprehensive supplementation to get rid of my walking-disability. Only after I realized that post-exertional malaise (PEM) remained as the worst debilitating symptom (exhaustion, back-pain and concentration difficulties), often lasting through the whole week till I had a full day of rest to recover. 10 hrs unrefreshed sleep every day was my minimum too. No social life left.

 

First of all I had to quit one of my part-time jobs, to properly being enabled to pace extensively. Second, got my only root-canal extracted, done against my explicit wish just before my PAD diagnosis. And finally found a GP who would give me inexpensive Mg-sulfate IVs, with which it was finally possible to start to reverse a runaway Mg-deficiency, which on up to 2.4 g/d of oral elemental supplemental Mg only worsened before. Along with continuing all supplements and clean diet. No PEM since. I honestly think just one intervention left out, and it wouldn't have worked.

 

 

Personally I do well with coffee or tea. But there are great herbal teas too, like holy basil.

Thank you for sharing!







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