• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Russian sleep medicine / Can someone translate or tell me more?

russian drugs sleep medicine insomnia sleep aid

  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 YoungSchizo

  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 18 July 2019 - 12:45 PM


My Girlfriend is from a old Soviet Union country and while she is on vacation she bought me these two Russian sleep medicine/drugs.

 

Can someone translate or tell me more about this stuff? The pharmacy told my girlfriend that the one in the purple package is a very strong one.

 

I'm scared to use this stuff.. (knowing myself.. I'll probably give it a go anyway though  :wacko:  :-D )

Attached Files

  • Attached File  med1.jpg   116.89KB   0 downloads
  • Attached File  med2.jpg   68.75KB   0 downloads

Edited by YoungSchizo, 18 July 2019 - 12:52 PM.


#2 spike

  • Guest
  • 25 posts
  • 5
  • Location:Ukraine

Posted 20 July 2019 - 08:02 AM

Nothing special is there, first one is Doxylamine (antihistamine) and second-passionflower. Both are useless to me, but my insomnia is quite stubborn, hope you'll have better luck with them. 


  • Cheerful x 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

#3 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 20 July 2019 - 10:05 AM

Nothing special is there, first one is Doxylamine (antihistamine) and second-passionflower. Both are useless to me, but my insomnia is quite stubborn, hope you'll have better luck with them. 

 

Are you sure? Haha OMFG they conned my girlfriend  :|o

 

Passionflower is OTC here and I ordered/bought Doxylamine and Diphenhydramine from US amazon a while ago. All three are also useless for me.

Same here, my insomnia is so stubborn that I'm so scared to sleep. Only when mixing alcohol and Temazepam I'm able to get a good nights rest. Three years of ongoing insomnia is making me depressed, fat and desperate.  :sad:



#4 unbreakable

  • Guest
  • 313 posts
  • 4

Posted 20 July 2019 - 11:56 AM

I guess you have tried trazodone? Low dose quetiapine?



#5 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:38 PM

I guess you have tried trazodone? Low dose quetiapine?

 

Yes, both (out of the dozens of "sleep-aids" I tried). Low dose Trazodone did nothing and made me more depressed, however, I might try a higher dosage in the future. Low dose Seroquel/Quetiapine did nothing for my sleep but made me hallucinate (even though it's an antipsychotic) and I'm not a big fan to give high dosages antipsychotics a chance due to the mental numbing/zombifying and other severe high dosage side-effects.

 

What did work for years was Mirtazapine but it interacts severely with my main antipsychotic Lurasidone (which works great for my psychotic symptoms). What also worked was Clonidine plus Temazepam but in the Netherlands they are not willing/allowed to prescribe Clonidine as a sleep aid and I do not have a reliable source to get high quality Clonidine other than the Indian crap they sell online.

 

My insomnia is not the problem to fall asleep but more maintenance of sleep, I keep waking up due to dreaming. 

 

I had two polysomnographs and both time they blamed my sleep/wake cycle although (what also is seen on the polysomnographs chart) is that my sleep is disrupted due to dreaming. My psychiatrist and my sleepdoc knows this but they cannot give me an proper explanation and/or are incompetent to tackle my insomnia so they keep singing the same old false song that I myself is causing the insomnia (which is BS).



#6 spike

  • Guest
  • 25 posts
  • 5
  • Location:Ukraine

Posted 20 July 2019 - 06:21 PM

Are you sure? Haha OMFG they conned my girlfriend  :|o

 

Yep :sad:, on the first image it's written 'доксиламин', you can ask google translate and it will tell you that it's indeed Doxylamine; wrt Alora, in case you're interested, here's its instruction: https://translate.go...%80%D0%B0/2575/
 
Have you tried CBT-I, in particular sleep restriction, waking up at the same time each day in the morning, and avoiding day naps, those are three main rules afaik. I'm going to restart it again soon. Previously for some weird reason NAC was helpful as a sleep aid, then it started to lose it's efficiency (mb because it made me sleepy during the day too and I was fighting this side effect to be able to do daily tasks), I added back theanine it worked for a while and then they both stopped working. Now 5htp and vitamin k are helping me to get a half decent sleep, but the tolerance might kick in any day now. So it's a big wake up call for me as without a sleep aid withing a week or two I get adrenaline rashes or whatever it is when in bed you get hot flashes on the back and wide awake ready to run a marathon. Someone on reddit was desperate enough to do two or two and a half hours of sleep restriction (but I don't recommend starting with 2.5 hours, it's too extreme) and succeeded, those stories are very encouraging :) .

  • like x 1

#7 orion22

  • Guest
  • 99 posts
  • 7
  • Location:Romania
  • NO

Posted 21 July 2019 - 02:13 AM

it says "polonium" give it to people that cause you trouble 


  • Cheerful x 1

#8 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 21 July 2019 - 10:27 AM

 

Yep :sad:, on the first image it's written 'доксиламин', you can ask google translate and it will tell you that it's indeed Doxylamine; wrt Alora, in case you're interested, here's its instruction: https://translate.go...%80%D0%B0/2575/
 
Have you tried CBT-I, in particular sleep restriction, waking up at the same time each day in the morning, and avoiding day naps, those are three main rules afaik. I'm going to restart it again soon. Previously for some weird reason NAC was helpful as a sleep aid, then it started to lose it's efficiency (mb because it made me sleepy during the day too and I was fighting this side effect to be able to do daily tasks), I added back theanine it worked for a while and then they both stopped working. Now 5htp and vitamin k are helping me to get a half decent sleep, but the tolerance might kick in any day now. So it's a big wake up call for me as without a sleep aid withing a week or two I get adrenaline rashes or whatever it is when in bed you get hot flashes on the back and wide awake ready to run a marathon. Someone on reddit was desperate enough to do two or two and a half hours of sleep restriction (but I don't recommend starting with 2.5 hours, it's too extreme) and succeeded, those stories are very encouraging :) .

 

 

LOL, Alora is made in Turkey. I'm going on vacation to Turkey upcoming week for quite a while. There I'll continue my search for a potent sleep drug. Since it's not so strictly regulated to get drugs there I'm positive I might find something that works instead of alcohol and Temazepam. The things you mention (supplements) I've already tried and they have little to no effect after one day.

 

The only thing ("solution") the sleep clinic offered me after two polysomnographs was 5 appointments with a sleep psychologist. I declined because I'm convinced it's not my sleep habits that has caused my sleep maintenance insomnia and I'm convinced a sleep psychologist is not a solution to resolve my wakefulness due to dreaming unless she's able to hypnotize me to suppress my (disrupted) REM-sleep.

 

I know both Europe and Russia is trying to pull Ukraine to their side but how are things regulated there drugs wise? I guess Ukraine has both Russian and Western medicine in their shell, no?

 

 

 

it says "polonium" give it to people that cause you trouble 

 

:laugh:



#9 spike

  • Guest
  • 25 posts
  • 5
  • Location:Ukraine

Posted 21 July 2019 - 06:32 PM

I know both Europe and Russia is trying to pull Ukraine to their side but how are things regulated there drugs wise? I guess Ukraine has both Russian and Western medicine in their shell, no?

 

We got some Russian stuff (and ofc a lot of medication from Europe) like phenibut, you can buy it in any drug store and some doctors even prescribe it :laugh:, but it's a GABA-β receptor agonist and I'd rather not mess with those receptors unless there's no other choice, not to mention phenibut is not that helpful. Also it's possible to order Endoluten (improves sleep supposedly) which is to my knowledge a pill form of Epithalon, I haven't been very pumped about it before and even less so now, given the recent news 'there's reason to be concerned that epitalon shortens, rather than lengthening, lifespan'. So nothing much to be excited about, do you have anything else in mind?
It would be nice if you found something to replace alcohol and then slowly tapered down Temazepam.
Clonidine is probably available here without a prescription and might be in Turkey as well.

Edited by spike, 21 July 2019 - 06:49 PM.


#10 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 21 July 2019 - 10:43 PM


We got some Russian stuff (and ofc a lot of medication from Europe) like phenibut, you can buy it in any drug store and some doctors even prescribe it :laugh:, but it's a GABA-β receptor agonist and I'd rather not mess with those receptors unless there's no other choice, not to mention phenibut is not that helpful. Also it's possible to order Endoluten (improves sleep supposedly) which is to my knowledge a pill form of Epithalon, I haven't been very pumped about it before and even less so now, given the recent news 'there's reason to be concerned that epitalon shortens, rather than lengthening, lifespan'. So nothing much to be excited about, do you have anything else in mind?
It would be nice if you found something to replace alcohol and then slowly tapered down Temazepam.
Clonidine is probably available here without a prescription and might be in Turkey as well.


I've read so many things about Phenibut being a safer alternative for benzo's but if I read some of those threads about it here on longecity I'm not so thrilled about to give it a go. I'm lucky that 1mg per day Clonazepam tackles some of my psychotic symptoms for 9 years already without tolerance or being addictive (yeah, I know, I might not come off of it easily but I'm not planning to).

I've never heard about Epitalon tbh.

Honestly I have no idea which med to try in Turkey. I do know however Clonidine is not available on the market there.

I need something that works synergically with Lurasidone but out of the dozens drugs and supplements I tried I haven't found anything that works (my psychiatrist has run out of potential drug options and I've run out of potential supplement options).

If I can't find anything I'm thinking of dropping Lurasidone and give Brexpiprazole (the "improved" version of Aripiprazole/Abilify) a try, which is supposed to improve sleep quality on it's own and maybe add Mirtazapine again. (Zyprexa plus Mirtazapine has worked wonders in the past for my sleep for almost 10 years but as I already said, most of the antipsychotics are great for sleep but to dirty to give a go in high dosages).

I guess you're not quite the type that is willing to take medicinal drugs but I think you might benefit from it though. Most people with insomnia benefit from low dosages of sedating drugs without suffering from it's (severe) side-effects.
I'm just unlucky that I need a sleep-drug alongside a antipsychotic.
Tbh I don't even need to taper down Temazepam, it's crap for me anyway, it only does it's job when I add alcohol.

I really hoped the Russian's could help me out but they conned my girlfriend with crap sleep drug :D

#11 unbreakable

  • Guest
  • 313 posts
  • 4

Posted 22 July 2019 - 06:58 AM

Prothipendyl ("Dominal") is used in some EU countries as a drug to help sleep through the night.

 

A strong GABAergic med would be Clomethiazole. but it's used rarely, mainly in old people with sleeping problems.

Not safe in case of OD or when combined with alcohol.

 

What always works to knock oneself out is GBL, but obviously I don't recommend it.


  • like x 1

#12 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 22 July 2019 - 12:28 PM

Prothipendyl ("Dominal") is used in some EU countries as a drug to help sleep through the night.

 

A strong GABAergic med would be Clomethiazole. but it's used rarely, mainly in old people with sleeping problems.

Not safe in case of OD or when combined with alcohol.

 

What always works to knock oneself out is GBL, but obviously I don't recommend it.

 

Hmm they don't have Prothipendyl in the Netherlands and I don't know if they have Dominal in Turkey but thanks for naming that one, I will research it and ask it there. 

 

Clomethiazole I'll probably won't use since I'm not only "self-medicating" with alcohol but I love to drink at least once a week when my sleep-issues resolve.

 

GBL is GHB? In case it is, there's pharmaceutical grade GHB on the market in the Netherlands called Xyrem. Even though the doctors disagree with me but since I react so good to alcohol induced sleep I tried getting Xyrem (since alcohol and GHB have a lot in common chemically). Xyrem is indicated for sleep/insomnia in Narcoleptic patients. And what I have in common with Narcoleptic insomnia is that they also suffer from waking up frequently due to dreaming. But according to the polysomnographs and my sleep-doc I do not have narcolepsy so eventually I didn't get it of course. 



#13 unbreakable

  • Guest
  • 313 posts
  • 4

Posted 22 July 2019 - 01:59 PM

GBL is a prodrug to GHB. I know a person with narcolepsy who get's Xyrem, but without the diagnosis narcolepsy it would be very hard to get GHB legally I guess.

 

 

The Netherlands: GBL has been placed on list 1 of the Opiumwet. Therefore, export and import, possession, manufacturing, sale and transport are forbidden. However, use of drugs forbidden by the Opiumwet is not considered illegal, but mainly treated as a public health concern.[35]

 

Yes, GBL/GHB und alcohol share similarities. In countries like Italy GHB is sometimes used for alcohol withdrawal and in the past it has been used as an anti-craving substance, but has more or less been replaced by the less abusable baclofen (which is somewhat similar to phenibut).

 

Clomethiazole + alcohol would be a disastrous combination. For old people with severe sleeping disorder who already have been getting the drug for a long time clomethiazole is OK. It doesn't sedate them during the day.

 

Apart from that, the TCA doxepin is sometimes used in low doses as a sleep aid.

 

 


  • like x 1

#14 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:20 PM

GBL is a prodrug to GHB. I know a person with narcolepsy who get's Xyrem, but without the diagnosis narcolepsy it would be very hard to get GHB legally I guess.

 

 

Yes, GBL/GHB und alcohol share similarities. In countries like Italy GHB is sometimes used for alcohol withdrawal and in the past it has been used as an anti-craving substance, but has more or less been replaced by the less abusable baclofen (which is somewhat similar to phenibut).

 

Clomethiazole + alcohol would be a disastrous combination. For old people with severe sleeping disorder who already have been getting the drug for a long time clomethiazole is OK. It doesn't sedate them during the day.

 

Apart from that, the TCA doxepin is sometimes used in low doses as a sleep aid.

 

 

Yes, even people with narcolepsy don't get Xyrem prescribed very often. Even though my GP knows me for 34 years he never heard of it before I told him and/or he never prescribed it to someone with narcolepsy.

 

I don't trust street made GHB so I won't buy/touch it but I'm convinced it's a silver bullet in my case and if there was a chance that I would get it prescribed I'm 100% sure I would give up alcohol for a great night time rest. Some days where I sleep very well are the most enjoyable and happiest days in my life.

 

I've tried Doxepin also (in a low dosage for insomnia), it also didn't help at all.


Edited by YoungSchizo, 22 July 2019 - 02:24 PM.


#15 spike

  • Guest
  • 25 posts
  • 5
  • Location:Ukraine

Posted 23 July 2019 - 04:08 PM

I've read so many things about Phenibut being a safer alternative for benzo's but if I read some of those threads about it here on longecity I'm not so thrilled about to give it a go. I'm lucky that 1mg per day Clonazepam tackles some of my psychotic symptoms for 9 years already without tolerance or being addictive (yeah, I know, I might not come off of it easily but I'm not planning to).

 

Agreed, and many report they develop tolerance to phenibut rather quickly, which is a big downside.
 

 

Honestly I have no idea which med to try in Turkey. I do know however Clonidine is not available on the market there. 

 

I wonder if you can order it directly from ua/ru internet stores. I'll do a small research on this topic within a week or two. But don't know about Clonidine's safety profile, especially long term.

 

 

I guess you're not quite the type that is willing to take medicinal drugs but I think you might benefit from it though.

 

I'm fine with whatever it is unless it's addictive or has a long half-life (those drugs normally would make a person drowsy during the day thus the body adjusts to them in a short period of time) or has a risk of permanent side effects, a bit hesitant to take those. I gave Trazadone a go, unfortunately it makes my nose congested each time I take it, but yet to try Mitrazapine which is in my notes. Other potentially useful AD's: Amitriptyline, Mianserine (helpful, keep it as a backup), Trimipramine, Dothiepin, Agomelatine.

 

 

I really hoped the Russian's could help me out but they conned my girlfriend with crap sleep drug :D

 

She should've asked for some specific brands, like 'Клофелин' (active ingr - Clonidine). Talking about Russian drugs, one person posted their anecdote that Afobazole is synergic with Temazepam. But, it's not well researched, not to mention interactions with other meds, so might be dangerous.


  • like x 1

#16 Keizo

  • Guest
  • 402 posts
  • 27
  • Location:Sweden
  • NO

Posted 24 July 2019 - 12:29 AM

I have on the rare occasion taken afobazole and gone to bed and slept really well, even when I wasn't tired. One of the few anti anxiety medications I would consider for sleep problems if I had them. Fairly cheap too, but yes it doesn't seem clear how it works, it might for example be a weak MAO inhibitor. Pretty decent for anxiety too, I'd plae it number 2 after Selank in that regard, having tried or have had friends try various Russian or obscure anti anxiety medications. 

 

I'm trying to get my father to try some Baclofen so that he doesn't kill himself with alcohol, but that's more of a desperation move as it doesn't seem particularly good long-term (altho he did take diazepam for decades with no apparent problems - until he got a stimulant induced psychosis and threw a chair out a window and they cut his script - since then he's been drinking himself ever closer to death). With him I tried giving him most of the other alternatives, like afobazole, and so on and so forth, just for his anxiety issues (and alcohol cravings)....

 

Various anti histamines are used for sleep problems, I've tried a few myself a long time ago, but anyway extrapharmacy.ru has some hydroxyzine (and afobazole and other various stuff). 

 

If you lived in Sweden and had all kinds of diagnoses and severe sleep problems you might get Nitrazepam prescribed, and if you are some special species you can still get flunitrazepam prescribed here. I think my dad had Oxazepam and/or diazepam with some z-drug for the evenings. Worked fine for him for many years, so you know not everyone gets severe or obvious problems from benzos.

 


Edited by Keizo, 24 July 2019 - 12:31 AM.

  • like x 1

#17 Keizo

  • Guest
  • 402 posts
  • 27
  • Location:Sweden
  • NO

Posted 24 July 2019 - 02:15 AM

And if you want deep sleep then you might want a rather long-acting substance, like Nitrazepam, or whatever else with a long half life etc. Baclofen might not be great considering the ~3 hour half life. And if it was me and I was considering phenibut or baclofen, I'd take a look at benzodiazepines first (and probably a bunch of stuff before that) for the simple reason that you can get them prescribed and have someone to help you with them (medical doctor) and get a sane 2nd perspective on the effects. I've used Nitrazepam a few times 10 years ago, it was by far the strongest and best sleep medication I have tried. Now keep in mind my sleep problems were almost entirely due to social anxiety (extreme social anxiety at the time, benzos back then didn't even get me down to the level I am today without narcotics).

 

Russian Phenazepam, in my experience the dose in them is very consistent (valenta pharma stuff) but I've heard a lot of people not enjoy that benzo very much, but it does work (I dont know how well for sleep problems but it is one of the indications according to the manufacturer, e.g. 0.5-1mg before bed, maybe not the absolute best for sleep as AFAIK it should be very similar to lorazepam and so a more overall usefulness),  IME the side-effects are not euphoria and joy but rather bitterness and grumpiness (whereas with diazepam or lorazepam it was a decent chance you get the good side effects, or at least not feel like shit, back in the day when I used that stuff). Phenazepam does stay in the system a long time.

 

To be clear I do not think it wise for most people to use benzodiazepines, at all. But someone like my father, I think it is almost a requirement of life at this point, unfortunately he did not tolerate phenazepam very well (too much loss of inhibition, too much muscle relaxation, and paranoia about his liver health when getting stomach distress from them), so hopefully baclofen or tofisopam will help him instead.

 

Something safe but probably useless for you: Glycine  I've taken 5-10g every day of that stuff (usually in evening) and it just brings down the stress level a bit, mild calming effect that certainly seems sustainable. and there was some study about it reg. schizophrenia or similar.


  • like x 1

#18 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 25 July 2019 - 07:33 AM

Interesting stuff guys.. I've arrived in Turkey and will reply later when I have my laptop..

After that I'm going to call the pharmacy and ask them to make a list of all the potential sleep-aids they have.

Meanwhile I have a short question about Doxylamine and Diphenhydramine.. Since it's OTC, what are the max dosages someone can use?

#19 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 26 July 2019 - 04:32 PM

 

Agreed, and many report they develop tolerance to phenibut rather quickly, which is a big downside.
 

 

I wonder if you can order it directly from ua/ru internet stores. I'll do a small research on this topic within a week or two. But don't know about Clonidine's safety profile, especially long term.

 

 

 

AFAIK it's quite safe, they even give it to little baby's to induce sleep. People on amphetamines use it long-term for sleep and it works without any adverse effects.

The first Indian Clonidine batch I had was the real deal, just like where it was meant to be made for it lowered my blood-pressure that I felt ill/weak a bit (my blood pressure was indeed too low when measuring) but it also gave me good night time rest once on 0.4-0.7mg, I still woke up frequently but fell right back to sleep and the effects of lowered blood-pressure went away after a week or so when my body adjusted and because of the short half-life and because I was taking it only when going to sleep. People that take it for high blood-pressure need to take it 3-4 times a day. Though I've read somewhere tolerance can occur.

The second and third Indian batch from the same pharmacy was a whole different brand and it didn't do anything at all. I'm not planning to order there anymore even though they can send me the brand I want because every time I order with them they try to use my VISA card for fraud purchases. (Stupid fucks, I've told them several time my VISA card is prepaid so they don't even have to bother trying to leak it for fraud but they probably are too retarded to comprehend what prepaid means).

 

 

I'm fine with whatever it is unless it's addictive or has a long half-life (those drugs normally would make a person drowsy during the day thus the body adjusts to them in a short period of time) or has a risk of permanent side effects, a bit hesitant to take those. I gave Trazadone a go, unfortunately it makes my nose congested each time I take it, but yet to try Mitrazapine which is in my notes. Other potentially useful AD's: Amitriptyline, Mianserine (helpful, keep it as a backup), Trimipramine, Dothiepin, Agomelatine.

 

 


I've got the same problem, I hate it when a "sleep" drug has a long half-life and if it especially not meant to be made for sleep then you might get stuck up with effects and side-effects you can't tolerate.

 

Mirtazapine is a very good and clean drug imho. Apart from the severe drowsiness and weight gain at the beginning, which in theory, should level out once your body is adjusted to it (if it's like for example like Olanzapine where you keep gaining and gaining weight over a long period of time I won't recommend staying on it).

It's not available on the market but in clinics/psychwards in the Netherlands they use a liquid form that has as low as 3ml/6ml (if I remember correctly it's equivalent to 3mg/6mg according to my psychiatrist) of Mirtazapine to help people sleep.

My sister had a sort of a burn-out 5-6 years ago and 7.5mg Mirtazapine knocked her out until her sleep pattern normalizes. Even though she is not sick at all anymore and works fulltime she still takes the half of a 7.5mg as a maintenance dosage for sleep without having any negative effects or side-effects (apart from the weight gain she had at the beginning when she was put on it).

I however needed 15/30mg in order to have the sleep effect, on 45mg it rather worked stimulating. The dosage is something you should keep in mind, with most people the lower the dosage Mirtazapine, the better it'll help with insomnia and the smaller chance of having effects you do not want (apart from the big possibility of weight gain at the beginning, even at a low dosage).

 

Good that you mention Mianserine, I didn't even think of that one. It's like the sister drug of Mirtazapine, maybe, if I'm lucky, Mianserine won't interact with my Lurasidone and induce sleep. (noted)

 

Amitriptyline was one the dozens of drugs that seemed to work on me, however within a week I started having symptoms of tardive dyskinesia with my tongue. My tongue felt really really heavy and I barely couldn't speak normally, as days passed it became worse and it scared the shit out of me and I dropped it immediately. Though I don't think Ami was responsible for it but rather the combination of Lurasidone plus Amitriptyline.  

 

Trimipramine, Dothiepin hmm never heard of those. (noted for research)

 

Agomelatine I've taken twice in my life, once it came on the EU market and once in this past period with sleeping issues. I have no idea what to think of it tbh. The first time I was on it for quite a while and when I look back at that period the antidepressant effects were neglectable weak. The second time (2 years ago or so) I asked for it as a potential sleep aid and it didn't do anything.

On a side-note when I take Melantonin as a sleep aid, it doesn't make me sleepy and/or drowsy, I just sleep shit like always and the next day I wake up rather stimulated/talkative but at the same time my head feels weird (annoying buzz kinda feeling) and my eyelids feel really heavy and it lasts all day.

 

 

She should've asked for some specific brands, like 'Клофелин' (active ingr - Clonidine). Talking about Russian drugs, one person posted their anecdote that Afobazole is synergic with Temazepam. But, it's not well researched, not to mention interactions with other meds, so might be dangerous.

 

 

Thanks for typing it in Russian. I've send it to her.

 

It's been many many years ago that I searched info about Afobazole (back in the days when I had severe anxiety). I remember that I liked the reviews but I didn't have the money/balls to purchase it.

 

Not that I'm rich now, I'm still poor haha.. So I rather first look into options that are also available in the Netherlands and/or like Clonidine are also very cheap on the internet.


Edited by YoungSchizo, 26 July 2019 - 05:18 PM.


#20 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 26 July 2019 - 06:30 PM

And if you want deep sleep then you might want a rather long-acting substance, like Nitrazepam, or whatever else with a long half life etc. Baclofen might not be great considering the ~3 hour half life. And if it was me and I was considering phenibut or baclofen, I'd take a look at benzodiazepines first (and probably a bunch of stuff before that) for the simple reason that you can get them prescribed and have someone to help you with them (medical doctor) and get a sane 2nd perspective on the effects. I've used Nitrazepam a few times 10 years ago, it was by far the strongest and best sleep medication I have tried. Now keep in mind my sleep problems were almost entirely due to social anxiety (extreme social anxiety at the time, benzos back then didn't even get me down to the level I am today without narcotics).

 

Russian Phenazepam, in my experience the dose in them is very consistent (valenta pharma stuff) but I've heard a lot of people not enjoy that benzo very much, but it does work (I dont know how well for sleep problems but it is one of the indications according to the manufacturer, e.g. 0.5-1mg before bed, maybe not the absolute best for sleep as AFAIK it should be very similar to lorazepam and so a more overall usefulness),  IME the side-effects are not euphoria and joy but rather bitterness and grumpiness (whereas with diazepam or lorazepam it was a decent chance you get the good side effects, or at least not feel like shit, back in the day when I used that stuff). Phenazepam does stay in the system a long time.

 

To be clear I do not think it wise for most people to use benzodiazepines, at all. But someone like my father, I think it is almost a requirement of life at this point, unfortunately he did not tolerate phenazepam very well (too much loss of inhibition, too much muscle relaxation, and paranoia about his liver health when getting stomach distress from them), so hopefully baclofen or tofisopam will help him instead.

 

Something safe but probably useless for you: Glycine  I've taken 5-10g every day of that stuff (usually in evening) and it just brings down the stress level a bit, mild calming effect that certainly seems sustainable. and there was some study about it reg. schizophrenia or similar.

 

First off, I'm sorry about your fathers condition. If he has psychossises he might be "self-medicating" with alcohol to cope like I do. I'm not only using alcohol for sleep but also because it battles depression and negative symptoms in a way science isn't able to yet. Past 2 days I've been clean for the first time since the beginning of January. Today I walked through the city and to be honest I was craving alcohol every time I saw a store that sold it, not because I'm a hardcore addict but just so I could think normally, be social, feel joy, feel sadness, have intense emotions, to think and feel deeply, to concentrate, to pass time..

 

Anyway..

 

I've read before about Nitrazepam being effectively used for insomnia, but it's barely prescribed because it's a benzo. I will keep that in mind. My pdoc gave me Lorazepam before but it didn't help for sleep and honestly I didn't like how it made me feel.

 

Thanks for the Russian online pharmacy, I will keep it as backup.

 

According to some study's I know 3g Glycine can be effective for people that have sleep-apnea. I've tried Glycine but for negative symptoms (30g), didn't feel anything and I think 10g won't do anything special for my sleep.


Edited by YoungSchizo, 26 July 2019 - 06:32 PM.


#21 mono

  • Guest
  • 192 posts
  • 25
  • Location:Aus
  • NO

Posted 27 July 2019 - 06:04 AM

Yeah it's funny how alcohol/drugs battle the negative symptoms so well in a way medication is unable to, yet. I do the same but have been working on staying clean for a number of years now, although I still get cravings. Sometimes it's so nice to just be able to enjoy a walk or do the dishes without feeling so weighed down, you know what I mean.

 

I have been using 12.5mg of doxylamine to get to get to sleep and that has been working nicely for some time. I used to have huge problems with sleep but since I have been on my antipsychotic - paliperidone injection I have been sleeping well, if not for 12+ hours each day because I am so sedated. 


  • Agree x 1

#22 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 27 July 2019 - 11:07 AM

Yeah it's funny how alcohol/drugs battle the negative symptoms so well in a way medication is unable to, yet. I do the same but have been working on staying clean for a number of years now, although I still get cravings. Sometimes it's so nice to just be able to enjoy a walk or do the dishes without feeling so weighed down, you know what I mean.

 

I have been using 12.5mg of doxylamine to get to get to sleep and that has been working nicely for some time. I used to have huge problems with sleep but since I have been on my antipsychotic - paliperidone injection I have been sleeping well, if not for 12+ hours each day because I am so sedated. 

 

Off course I know exactly what you mean and go through!!

 

I haven't tried 12.5mg Doxylamine, only 50mg because I'm unfamiliar with first generation antihistamines because they're not on the market anymore in the Netherlands and I do not know how safe it is. I've tried looking up how much I can dose but couldn't find anything besides several posts about people that overdosed i.e. committed suicide with drugs also had OTC antihistmanines in their possession. Made me kinda weary.. 

With Diphenhydramine I noticed some effects on only 100mg but then again, I do not now how much is safe.

 

Is it true that you get less side-effects on antipsychotic injection than on tablets? Do you have any side-effects? Damn, I wish I could sleep 12 hours, being awake 2/3rd of the day is rough  :laugh:

 

 

'Клофелин' (active ingr - Clonidine)

 

 

@Spike: My girlfriend found Clonidine, it's only $5,- a package but the pharmacies are all out of stock and by the time she's back her vacation will be long over.  :dry:



#23 mono

  • Guest
  • 192 posts
  • 25
  • Location:Aus
  • NO

Posted 28 July 2019 - 02:17 AM

Off course I know exactly what you mean and go through!!

 

I haven't tried 12.5mg Doxylamine, only 50mg because I'm unfamiliar with first generation antihistamines because they're not on the market anymore in the Netherlands and I do not know how safe it is. I've tried looking up how much I can dose but couldn't find anything besides several posts about people that overdosed i.e. committed suicide with drugs also had OTC antihistmanines in their possession. Made me kinda weary.. 

With Diphenhydramine I noticed some effects on only 100mg but then again, I do not now how much is safe.

 

Is it true that you get less side-effects on antipsychotic injection than on tablets? Do you have any side-effects? Damn, I wish I could sleep 12 hours, being awake 2/3rd of the day is rough  :laugh:

 

Oh right, I just thought 12.5mg was a reasonable dose because it got me off to sleep personally and I didn't wake up with a hangover which can be a common side effect with those antihistamines.

 

Hmm, I have been on oral risperidone before and to be honest, unfortunately I don't notice that much difference in the way of side effects compared to the paliperidone injection. I still get side effects like weight gain, over sleeping and feeling numb/sedated throughout the day time on the injection though.



#24 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 29 July 2019 - 10:43 AM

All you need to know about Imipramine vs Trimipramine on insomnia/sleep (a polysomnograph and questionnaire study).

 

Damn I was excited about Trimipramine but it's not available in the Netherlands.


Edited by YoungSchizo, 29 July 2019 - 10:45 AM.


#25 YoungSchizo

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 766 posts
  • 18
  • Location:I Have No Clue

Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:02 PM

I went to the pharmacy today and I must say I'm not thrilled, rather really disappointed about the drug options.

They do not have Nitrazepam, Trimipramine, Lurasidone, Brexpiprazole, Parnate, Temazepam. I did get Imipramine and Mianserine packages though for only 5EUR.

 

If someone has more potential "sleep" drug candidates please let me know.



#26 Keizo

  • Guest
  • 402 posts
  • 27
  • Location:Sweden
  • NO

Posted 29 July 2019 - 08:19 PM

Promethazine and propiomazine (both antihistamines) are quite popularly prescribed here in Sweden for sleep problems, Promethazine probably being less commonly used for sleep than propiomazine based on my limited knowledge/experience. Those are the only two I got prescribed even when I had pretty severe insomnia. Just my experience is Promethazine is a lot more pleasant and caused me less drowsiness the next day, but they didn't really work for me (probably because I had benzo withdrawal most of the times I took them).

 

Altho promethazine might not be particularly healthy for the brain, that's what they prescribed my father (to be taken all around the clock)  every single time he went to the emergency 1-2 years ago when he had panic attacks and whatnot. I did try it myself once or twice during the day just to see how it would feel and it really was a bad experience, dizziness, decreased motivation, etc (same for my father --- altho after he had eaten it a long time (side)effects seemed to diminish). He thought it was almost OK for sleep (not enough to motivate him to renew the scripts with the general practitioner follow ups, rather all prescribed to him by the emergency doctors). Whereas benzodiazepines are considered "strong stuff" and so forth, they rarely seemed to cause me or my father any severe negative effects during the day (but in hindsight they obviously did even just acutely, memory impairment and all the other things, but no "feel bad" effect most of the times)  - phenazepam being a big exception where the negatives were plain to see (but I suspect with phenazepam it is the cases that it simply lacks most of the vaguely speaking euphoric effects and thus the other effects aren't masked).

 

Good luck with the sleep


Edited by Keizo, 29 July 2019 - 08:41 PM.


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

#27 DeltaWave

  • Guest
  • 11 posts
  • 2
  • Location:Europa

Posted 04 August 2019 - 06:53 PM

Yes, both (out of the dozens of "sleep-aids" I tried). Low dose Trazodone did nothing and made me more depressed, however, I might try a higher dosage in the future. Low dose Seroquel/Quetiapine did nothing for my sleep but made me hallucinate (even though it's an antipsychotic) and I'm not a big fan to give high dosages antipsychotics a chance due to the mental numbing/zombifying and other severe high dosage side-effects.

 

What did work for years was Mirtazapine but it interacts severely with my main antipsychotic Lurasidone (which works great for my psychotic symptoms). What also worked was Clonidine plus Temazepam but in the Netherlands they are not willing/allowed to prescribe Clonidine as a sleep aid and I do not have a reliable source to get high quality Clonidine other than the Indian crap they sell online.

 

My insomnia is not the problem to fall asleep but more maintenance of sleep, I keep waking up due to dreaming. 

 

I had two polysomnographs and both time they blamed my sleep/wake cycle although (what also is seen on the polysomnographs chart) is that my sleep is disrupted due to dreaming. My psychiatrist and my sleepdoc knows this but they cannot give me an proper explanation and/or are incompetent to tackle my insomnia so they keep singing the same old false song that I myself is causing the insomnia (which is BS).

 

 

You should try Nozinan for sleep.

 

 

Attached Files


Edited by DeltaWave, 04 August 2019 - 06:54 PM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: russian, drugs, sleep medicine, insomnia, sleep aid

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users