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Coronavirus information with context

coronavirus sars bird flu swine flu west nile virus covid19 covid-19

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#901 Dorian Grey

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 05:32 AM

Lab leak is the 'most credible' source of the coronavirus outbreak, says top US government official

 

https://www.dailymai...t-official.html

 

One of America's most senior government officials says the most 'credible' theory about the origin of coronavirus is that it escaped from a laboratory in China.

 

Matthew Pottinger, who is President Donald Trump's respected Deputy National Security Adviser, told politicians from around the world that even China's leaders now openly admit their previous claims that the virus originated in a Wuhan market are false.

 

Mr Pottinger said that the latest intelligence points to the virus leaking from the top-secret Wuhan Institute of Virology, 11 miles from the market, saying: 'There is a growing body of evidence that the lab is likely the most credible source of the virus.'

 

-------------------

 

This is actually a well written piece (for Daily Mail).  Can't help but find it remarkable out of earths 57,308,738 square miles of land mass, this bug just happened to pop out within walking distance of China's only level 4 bat / coronavirus lab (funded by Fauci's NIH).  Some say the virus was around in other parts of the world before the Wuhan outbreak, but there is no denying the initial major (city-wide) outbreak occurred at Wuhan.  

 

Boggles the mind to think there may be people in the world who might actually know the truth about this, and are trying to keep it secret.  A terrible thing to try to take to your grave.  The possibility Fauci helped create this, and now is suppressing any & all outpatient therapeutics to treat it is even worse.  May God have NO mercy on their souls.  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 03 January 2021 - 05:52 AM.

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#902 Dorian Grey

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 06:35 AM

Well this is a fine mess...  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-145710680.html

 

Covid wards 'full of children' for first time in pandemic, warn nurses

 

Medics are starting to see “whole wards of children” suffering from Covid for the first time during the pandemic, a senior nurse has warned.

 

Laura Duffell, a matron at King’s College Hospital, London, said the new strain of Covid was affecting children and younger adults with no underlying health conditions in worrying numbers.

 

------------------------------

 

Looks like school is out for Winter.  If this takes hold in the US & we start seeing serious childhood casualties, will FDA reconsider their total ban on outpatient therapeutics?  Hope so!  Old duffers in nursing homes falling off the twig may be tolerable for the masses, but kids on vents?  High time we start treating patients before they go critical!  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 03 January 2021 - 07:12 AM.

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#903 Mind

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 06:04 PM

Well this is a fine mess...  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-145710680.html

 

Covid wards 'full of children' for first time in pandemic, warn nurses

 

Medics are starting to see “whole wards of children” suffering from Covid for the first time during the pandemic, a senior nurse has warned.

 

Laura Duffell, a matron at King’s College Hospital, London, said the new strain of Covid was affecting children and younger adults with no underlying health conditions in worrying numbers.

 

------------------------------

 

Looks like school is out for Winter.  If this takes hold in the US & we start seeing serious childhood casualties, will FDA reconsider their total ban on outpatient therapeutics?  Hope so!  Old duffers in nursing homes falling off the twig may be tolerable for the masses, but kids on vents?  High time we start treating patients before they go critical!  

 

This article is very vague about numbers and doesn't say whole wards of children are dying, only that they are seeing sick children. The headline betrays the main thrust of the article, which is a lack of capacity in the UK. The only numbers given are "2 or 3 people on ventilators", which I assume are the young adults referenced earlier.

 

I am cautious about single nurse statements about the degree of burden. Recall the nurse who appeared on CNN and later was found out to be fabricating or stretching the story (typical for CNN, a very low quality "news" organization).


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#904 zorba990

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 06:38 PM

COVID-19 severity affected by proportion of antibodies targeting crucial viral protein -- ScienceDaily
COVID-19 severity affected by proportion of antibodies targeting crucial viral protein

COVID-19 antibodies preferentially target a different part of the virus in mild cases of COVID-19 than they do in severe cases, and wane significantly within several months of infection, according to a new study by researchers at Stanford Medicine.

The findings identify new links between the course of the disease and a patient's immune response. They also raise concerns about whether people can be re-infected, whether antibody tests to detect prior infection may underestimate the breadth of the pandemic and whether vaccinations may need to be repeated at regular intervals to maintain a protective immune response.

"This is one of the most comprehensive studies to date of the antibody immune response to SARS-CoV-2 in people across the entire spectrum of disease severity, from asymptomatic to fatal," said Scott Boyd, MD, PhD, associate professor of pathology. "We assessed multiple time points and sample types, and also analyzed levels of viral RNA in patient nasopharyngeal swabs and blood samples. It's one of the first big-picture looks at this illness."

The study found that people with severe COVID-19 have low proportions of antibodies targeting the spike protein used by the virus to enter human cells compared with the number of antibodies targeting proteins of the virus's inner shell.

Boyd is a senior author of the study, which was published Dec. 7 in Science Immunology. Other senior authors are Benjamin Pinsky, MD, PhD, associate professor of pathology, and Peter Kim, PhD, the Virginia and D. K. Ludwig Professor of Biochemistry. The lead authors are research scientist Katharina Röltgen, PhD; postdoctoral scholars Abigail Powell, PhD, and Oliver Wirz, PhD; and clinical instructor Bryan Stevens, MD.

The researchers studied 254 people with asymptomatic, mild or severe COVID-19 who were identified either through routine testing or occupational health screening at Stanford Health Care or who came to a Stanford Health Care clinic with symptoms of COVID-19. Of the people with symptoms, 25 were treated as outpatients, 42 were hospitalized outside the intensive care unit and 37 were treated in the intensive care unit. Twenty-five people in the study died of the disease.

SARS-CoV-2 binds to human cells via a structure on its surface called the spike protein. This protein binds to a receptor on human cells called ACE2. The binding allows the virus to enter and infect the cell. Once inside, the virus sheds its outer coat to reveal an inner shell encasing its genetic material. Soon, the virus co-opts the cell's protein-making machinery to churn out more viral particles, which are then released to infect other cells.

Antibodies that recognize and bind to the spike protein block its ability to bind to ACE2, preventing the virus from infecting the cells, whereas antibodies that recognize other viral components are unlikely to prevent viral spread. Current vaccine candidates use portions of the spike protein to stimulate an immune response.

Boyd and his colleagues analyzed the levels of three types of antibodies -- IgG, IgM and IgA -- and the proportions that targeted the viral spike protein or the virus's inner shell as the disease progressed and patients either recovered or grew sicker. They also measured the levels of viral genetic material in nasopharyngeal samples and blood from the patients. Finally, they assessed the effectiveness of the antibodies in preventing the spike protein from binding to ACE2 in a laboratory dish.

"Although previous studies have assessed the overall antibody response to infection, we compared the viral proteins targeted by these antibodies," Boyd said. "We found that the severity of the illness correlates with the ratio of antibodies recognizing domains of the spike protein compared with other nonprotective viral targets. Those people with mild illness tended to have a higher proportion of anti-spike antibodies, and those who died from their disease had more antibodies that recognized other parts of the virus."

As in other studies, the researchers found that people with asymptomatic and mild illness had lower levels of antibodies overall than did those with severe disease. After recovery, the levels of IgM and IgA decreased steadily to low or undetectable levels in most patients over a period of about one to four months after symptom onset or estimated infection date, and IgG levels dropped significantly.

"This is quite consistent with what has been seen with other coronaviruses that regularly circulate in our communities to cause the common cold," Boyd said. "It's not uncommon for someone to get re-infected within a year or sometimes sooner. It remains to be seen whether the immune response to SARS-CoV-2 vaccination is stronger, or persists longer, than that caused by natural infection. It's quite possible it could be better. But there are a lot of questions that still need to be answered."

"For example, if someone has already been infected, should they get the vaccine? If so, how should they be prioritized?" Boyd said. "How can we adapt seroprevalence studies in vaccinated populations? How will immunity from vaccination differ from that caused by natural infection? And how long might a vaccine be protective? These are all very interesting, important questions."
Rest of story at link


https://www.reddit.c...ne_ingredients/

Shows the spike protein is in the vaccines (it doesn't mention surface protein).

Is there a difference, naturally, in how the immune system builds immunity for one versus the other?
For example, is Thymic immunity responsible for the spike protein immunity, but another part like marrow responsible for surface, deeper, response?

Nebulised interferon beta-1a for patients with COVID-19
https://www.thelance...IIS2213-2600(20)30523-3/fulltext

"In The Lancet Respiratory Medicine, Phillip Monk and colleagues1 report the results of a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled phase 2 pilot trial of nebulised interferon beta-1a in 101 adults admitted to hospital with COVID-19. The authors found that patients who received nebulised interferon beta-1a had significantly greater odds of clinical improvement across the WHO Ordinal Scale for Clinical Improvement than those who received placebo, both on day 15/16 (odds ratio [OR] 2·32 [95% CI 1·07–5·04]; p=0·033) and on day 28 (3·15 [1·39–7·14]; p=0·006). However, there was no significant difference between treatment groups in the odds of hospital discharge by day 28: 39 (81%) of 48 patients had been discharged in the nebulised interferon beta-1a group compared with 36 (75%) of 48 in the placebo group (OR 1·84 [95% CI 0·64–5·29]; p=0·26).
Type 1 interferons are among the first cytokines produced during a viral infection and promote both innate and adaptive immunity. Interferon beta has shown an antiviral effect against coronaviruses, including severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) in in-vitro studies and animal models.2 A recently published randomised clinical trial found that a combination of recombinant interferon beta-1b and lopinavir–ritonavir decreased mortality in patients with MERS-CoV infection.3 Clinical studies of SARS-CoV-2 found that a proportion of patients with severe COVID-19 had impaired type I interferon activity,4 potentially linked to autoantibodies against type I interferon.5 However, preliminary results from the SOLIDARITY/DisCoVeRy randomised clinical trial in more than 2000 patients showed no efficacy of subcutaneous interferon alone or with lopinavir–ritonavir.6 The results of the present pilot study,1 in contrast to the results of the SOLIDARITY trial, corroborate findings from in-vitro studies and animal models showing that the interferon pathway is crucial in controlling SARS-CoV-2 infection.
• View related content for this article
How can we account for these apparently conflicting results? First, the population targeted by these studies was different. The population in the present pilot study1 was overall at a less severe stage of COVID-19 than that in the SOLIDARITY trial; no patients with invasive ventilation were included, whereas 8% of patients in SOLIDARITY were ventilated; and global mortality was 3% at 28 days in the present study versus 12% in SOLIDARITY. Second, the route of administration of interferon beta-1a was different in these studies: the present study used nebulised therapy that delivers interferon beta-1a directly to the respiratory tract, whereas the SOLIDARITY trial used subcutaneous interferon beta-1a. Nebulised therapy allows targeted delivery of interferon to the lungs, where it can induce the expression of interferon-stimulated genes that participate directly (eg, through degradation of viral RNA, interference with viral translation or assembly, and so on) or indirectly (via signalling and recruitment of monocytes or macrophages or T cells, increased antigen presentation and cross-presentation, and so on) in the antiviral response in the mucosa.7
The number of patients enrolled in the present study was small. Additionally, this study showed no impact of the evaluated treatment on time to discharge or on mortality, although the study was not adequately powered to analyse mortality outcomes. Larger randomised clinical trials are therefore needed to further investigate the effectiveness of nebulised interferon beta-1a therapy in this setting. The safety of nebulised interferon beta-1a will be of special interest since nebulisation of interferon has no marketing authorisation for any indication yet. Future trials should evaluate the effect of interferon beta-1a on inflammatory biomarkers and analyse virological data to better characterise the physiopathology underlying this drug. It will also be worthwhile to investigate whether interferon beta-1a has an impact on prolonged symptoms of COVID-19, especially pulmonary symptoms. Recent studies have found persistent dyspnoea in up to 40% of patients with COVID-19 at 2 months after disease onset8 and abnormalities in pulmonary function at 3 months. In light of the growing number of patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection, it is now crucial to find drugs that could prevent these pulmonary sequelae. Other issues that should be explored include the price and availability of interferon beta.
It is also important to define which population should be prioritised in subsequent large randomised clinical trials. To optimise the antiviral effect of interferon beta, there is a greater rationale to target patients at an early stage of the disease. Studies in mice with MERS-CoV infection have shown that the timing of type I interferon administration in coronavirus infections has a crucial role: antiviral effects were observed if type I interferon was administered shortly after infection, but type I interferon failed to inhibit viral replication and had side-effects when administered later.9 In patients with severe COVID-19, an exacerbated inflammatory response has been identified as a cause of pulmonary complications, and interferon beta-1a—a pro-inflammatory cytokine—could increase the inflammatory response and be associated with safety issues.10 Therefore, patients at an early stage of the disease, possibly in the outpatient setting, might be of interest for future randomised clinical trials of nebulised interferon beta-1a.
Despite the large number of clinical trials underway for the treatment of COVID-19, few antiviral drugs against SARS-CoV-2 have been identified. The findings of the present study are promising in this regard. They should be promptly evaluated in large randomised clinical trials, including academically led trials.
"

#905 Mind

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 11:07 PM

https://www.reddit.c...ne_ingredients/

Shows the spike protein is in the vaccines (it doesn't mention surface protein).

Is there a difference, naturally, in how the immune system builds immunity for one versus the other?
For example, is Thymic immunity responsible for the spike protein immunity, but another part like marrow responsible for surface, deeper, response?

Nebulised interferon beta-1a for patients with COVID-19
https://www.thelance...IIS2213-2600(20)30523-3/fulltext

"In The Lancet Respiratory Medicine, Phillip Monk and colleagues1 report the results of a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled phase 2 pilot trial of nebulised interferon beta-1a in 101 adults admitted to hospital with COVID-19. The authors found that patients who received nebulised interferon beta-1a had significantly greater odds of clinical improvement across the WHO Ordinal Scale for Clinical Improvement than those who received placebo, both on day 15/16 (odds ratio [OR] 2·32 [95% CI 1·07–5·04]; p=0·033) and on day 28 (3·15 [1·39–7·14]; p=0·006). However, there was no significant difference between treatment groups in the odds of hospital discharge by day 28: 39 (81%) of 48 patients had been discharged in the nebulised interferon beta-1a group compared with 36 (75%) of 48 in the placebo group (OR 1·84 [95% CI 0·64–5·29]; p=0·26).
Type 1 interferons are among the first cytokines produced during a viral infection and promote both innate and adaptive immunity. Interferon beta has shown an antiviral effect against coronaviruses, including severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) in in-vitro studies and animal models.2 A recently published randomised clinical trial found that a combination of recombinant interferon beta-1b and lopinavir–ritonavir decreased mortality in patients with MERS-CoV infection.3 Clinical studies of SARS-CoV-2 found that a proportion of patients with severe COVID-19 had impaired type I interferon activity,4 potentially linked to autoantibodies against type I interferon.5 However, preliminary results from the SOLIDARITY/DisCoVeRy randomised clinical trial in more than 2000 patients showed no efficacy of subcutaneous interferon alone or with lopinavir–ritonavir.6 The results of the present pilot study,1 in contrast to the results of the SOLIDARITY trial, corroborate findings from in-vitro studies and animal models showing that the interferon pathway is crucial in controlling SARS-CoV-2 infection.
• View related content for this article
How can we account for these apparently conflicting results? First, the population targeted by these studies was different. The population in the present pilot study1 was overall at a less severe stage of COVID-19 than that in the SOLIDARITY trial; no patients with invasive ventilation were included, whereas 8% of patients in SOLIDARITY were ventilated; and global mortality was 3% at 28 days in the present study versus 12% in SOLIDARITY. Second, the route of administration of interferon beta-1a was different in these studies: the present study used nebulised therapy that delivers interferon beta-1a directly to the respiratory tract, whereas the SOLIDARITY trial used subcutaneous interferon beta-1a. Nebulised therapy allows targeted delivery of interferon to the lungs, where it can induce the expression of interferon-stimulated genes that participate directly (eg, through degradation of viral RNA, interference with viral translation or assembly, and so on) or indirectly (via signalling and recruitment of monocytes or macrophages or T cells, increased antigen presentation and cross-presentation, and so on) in the antiviral response in the mucosa.7
The number of patients enrolled in the present study was small. Additionally, this study showed no impact of the evaluated treatment on time to discharge or on mortality, although the study was not adequately powered to analyse mortality outcomes. Larger randomised clinical trials are therefore needed to further investigate the effectiveness of nebulised interferon beta-1a therapy in this setting. The safety of nebulised interferon beta-1a will be of special interest since nebulisation of interferon has no marketing authorisation for any indication yet. Future trials should evaluate the effect of interferon beta-1a on inflammatory biomarkers and analyse virological data to better characterise the physiopathology underlying this drug. It will also be worthwhile to investigate whether interferon beta-1a has an impact on prolonged symptoms of COVID-19, especially pulmonary symptoms. Recent studies have found persistent dyspnoea in up to 40% of patients with COVID-19 at 2 months after disease onset8 and abnormalities in pulmonary function at 3 months. In light of the growing number of patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection, it is now crucial to find drugs that could prevent these pulmonary sequelae. Other issues that should be explored include the price and availability of interferon beta.
It is also important to define which population should be prioritised in subsequent large randomised clinical trials. To optimise the antiviral effect of interferon beta, there is a greater rationale to target patients at an early stage of the disease. Studies in mice with MERS-CoV infection have shown that the timing of type I interferon administration in coronavirus infections has a crucial role: antiviral effects were observed if type I interferon was administered shortly after infection, but type I interferon failed to inhibit viral replication and had side-effects when administered later.9 In patients with severe COVID-19, an exacerbated inflammatory response has been identified as a cause of pulmonary complications, and interferon beta-1a—a pro-inflammatory cytokine—could increase the inflammatory response and be associated with safety issues.10 Therefore, patients at an early stage of the disease, possibly in the outpatient setting, might be of interest for future randomised clinical trials of nebulised interferon beta-1a.
Despite the large number of clinical trials underway for the treatment of COVID-19, few antiviral drugs against SARS-CoV-2 have been identified. The findings of the present study are promising in this regard. They should be promptly evaluated in large randomised clinical trials, including academically led trials.
"

 

I keep hearing about a "grave concern" that antibodies might fade after a few months. If your body(immune system) successfully mounted an antibody response the first time, why would it not a second time?



#906 aribadabar

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 12:21 AM

I keep hearing about a "grave concern" that antibodies might fade after a few months. If your body(immune system) successfully mounted an antibody response the first time, why would it not a second time?

 

Because the second time it may be another strain for which the body has no antibodies.


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#907 Hebbeh

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 01:23 AM

Also, with some that have already been infected twice, the first infection caused tissue damage throughout various organs which can take a very long time to heal and then when a second infection comes along, it hits while you're still down.  You've already been stressed to the max but antibodies have already faded and the virus has an easier and quicker time to re-establish it's self in the damaged tissue before the stressed immune system can respond with new antibodies.  Just like with the vaccine, it takes the immune system upwards of a couple weeks to respond with new antibodies and by then, you find yourself in the ER.


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#908 Heisok

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 04:04 AM

My bet is that, There will be forthcoming more confirmed doubledowners. Might know one. First was around March. Second recent. I forget how they confirmed first, and can not quiz them. Current RT-PCR. Sicker, but at home still.

Edited by Heisok, 04 January 2021 - 04:06 AM.

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#909 bladedmind

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 04:51 AM

Lab leak is the 'most credible' source of the coronavirus outbreak, says top US government official

 

https://www.dailymai...t-official.html

... 

-------------------

 

This is actually a well written piece (for Daily Mail).  Can't help but find it remarkable out of earths 57,308,738 square miles of land mass, this bug just happened to pop out within walking distance of China's only level 4 bat / coronavirus lab (funded by Fauci's NIH).  Some say the virus was around in other parts of the world before the Wuhan outbreak, but there is no denying the initial major (city-wide) outbreak occurred at Wuhan.  

 

Boggles the mind to think there may be people in the world who might actually know the truth about this, and are trying to keep it secret.  A terrible thing to try to take to your grave.  The possibility Fauci helped create this, and now is suppressing any & all outpatient therapeutics to treat it is even worse.  May God have NO mercy on their souls.  

 

Dorian Grey, the whole thing stinks.  @BillyBostickson has chewed on this like a bulldog almost every day since February.   What stinks even more is that Dr Peter Daszak was put in charge of the origin arm of the Lancet COVID-19 Commission.  Daszak is a gain-of-function mad scientist who along with fellow mad scientist Ralph Baric moved that research to Wuhan with U.S. grant money after it was shut down in the U.S. for being too dangerous.  Fauci had a hand in it as well.  There’s been a lot of “information management” about this:  why, every goodthinking person knows, that lab leak is a CONSPIRACY THEORY! 

 

Mainstream David A. Reiman of Stanford blows the whistle in PNAS, 11/24/20 

 

A deliberative process for investigating the origins of this pandemic must be representative of all relevant disciplines, expertise, and stakeholders; must achieve political neutrality, scientific balance, and access to all relevant information and samples; and must operate with transparency and independent oversight. Without these features, it will not be credible, trustworthy, or effective.

Which is a polite way of saying that a certain investigation lacks those qualities.

 

@_ice9, a prolific Covid-19 analyst, also waded through this swamp at length.  Anyone I’ve read who has looked deeply into the origins of the novel coronavirus is seething with rage. 

 

https://twitter.com/...361721178824704

It was a designer virus machine-made by researchers trying to get another Nature paper by proving that bat CoVs can recombine to infect humans.

 

Congratulations to Peter Daszak, Shi Zhengli, and Ralph Baric for proving that yes, yes they can.

 

https://twitter.com/...854329714368512

Peter Daszak, you will not wash your hands of this.

 

No matter how many Lancet committees you subvert, the entire world can see what you funded, what you had commissioned to be built with Baric's techniques, 2000 kilometers from the source.

 


Edited by bladedmind, 04 January 2021 - 04:53 AM.

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#910 bladedmind

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 05:01 AM

Error.


Edited by bladedmind, 04 January 2021 - 05:04 AM.


#911 bladedmind

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 05:32 AM

I haven't seen anyone mention the b.1.1.7 variant in the U.K.   Notice the vertical lines in the graph.  

 

https://twitter.com/...459896335085572

 
NEW: Saturday update of latest UK Covid data
 
The trend in test positivity since Christmas is genuinely scary, with lines climbing almost vertically in all English regions.
 
On Christmas eve 17% of tests in London came back positive. Four days later that was 24% and accelerating

 

Attached File  B.1.1.7.jpeg   130.19KB   0 downloads

 

 

Atlantic published on it Dec 30 without the latest data.  The latest data, Dec 31, show that the more contagious variant is rapidly displacing the original pathogen.   Reportedly, it is 40 to 70% more contagious - multiply the given R of the original pathogen by 1.4 to 1.7.  It's not just the winter effect. It might be globally catastrophic. 
 
More info:
 
I choose neither panic nor apathy.   We'll know in a few weeks how sound these proposed inferences are - the problem now is that the data are noisy and biased.  

 


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#912 Dorian Grey

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 06:15 AM

Well, they say "truth will out" (in the end).  I'm not afraid of dying, but I would like to live to see if they can keep the truth about the origins suppressed. 

 

Hard to even imagine the implications.  Would the world really gang up on China and demand 50-100 trillion in reparations?  Or will the PC police demand: "it was an accident...  Could have happened to any country".  Will gain of function research even be banned?  Or will they say even more research is needed?  

 

New mutations are looking very ominous.  Increased contagion?  Children with pulmonary fibrosis & cardiac damage in the pipeline?  Vaccine escape?  A fine mess.  

 

Will Fauci decide to accept the wisdom of outpatient treatment before patients turn blue?  Or will we simply pump out viral / vaccine updates every month like Windows-10?  

 

Will we really crush every small business in the nation with endless lock-downs?  What will the children of today think when they see how wonderful life was for the boomers & gen-X, compared to what we've left for them?  

 

I've got a bad feeling about the latest developments.  A good, effective outpatient therapeutic could save the world, but no one in power seems even remotely interested in this today.  

 


Edited by Dorian Grey, 04 January 2021 - 06:17 AM.

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#913 Dorian Grey

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 05:27 AM

BoJo says...  Don't even think about leaving your home until March!  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-012707140.html

 

Britain will be in strict lockdown until March after Boris Johnson said the country faces a “tough, tough” few months because of rocketing Covid infections.

 

The third national lockdown begins immediately, with new laws coming into force within 24 hours.

 

business premises closures increase to 550,000.

 

This figure includes as many 401,690 non-essential shops, 64,537 pubs and restaurants, 20,703 personal care facilities and 7,051 gyms/leisure centres

 

21,119 local authority schools - as well as 2,645 private schools - will also need to close.  The prolonged additional school closure also made the scrapping of this year's exams necessary.

 

-------------------------

 

Time to buy some more toilet paper, with the UK variant already loose in the USA.  I expect California Governor Newsom will be making a similar proclamation in a week or so.  New York & other blue states to follow.  

 

Guess this is it folks...  Farewell small business, mom & pop restaurants & pubs.  Wish you could be here when Winter hibernation is over.  Don't know what the world will look like by then, but it won't be the world we once knew.  The Great Reset has arrived!  The Brave New World will be 100% corporate & intimately integrated with government. 

 

Resistance is futile...  You will be assimilated. 


Edited by Dorian Grey, 05 January 2021 - 06:04 AM.

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#914 bladedmind

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 05:21 PM

If the vulgar Daily Mail’s reporting about what Trump’s deplorable national security official said about the origins of the novel coronavirus is not sufficiently credible, one can turn instead to this new article from patrician Ivy League-Manhattan New York magazine that reaches the same conclusion:  likely a lab leak.  The New York article is well-written, provides thorough background, explanations, and references, and is compelling.  

 

https://nymag.com/in...ape-theory.html

 

I keep returning to the basic, puzzling fact: This patchwork pathogen, which allegedly has evolved without human meddling, first came to notice in the only city in the world with a laboratory that was paid for years by the U.S. government to perform experiments on certain obscure and heretofore unpublicized strains of bat viruses — which bat viruses then turned out to be, out of all the organisms on the planet, the ones that are most closely related to the disease. What are the odds?

 

When composing my post #909 I was trying to but could not remember another important source on novel coronavirus origin, but he’s referenced in the NY article:

 

https://twitter.com/ydeigin

 

Lab-Made? SARS-CoV-2 Genealogy Through the Lens of Gain-of-Function Research

 

 

At the end of January, Zerohedge posted a detailed account of the lab origin hypothesis and was permanently banned by Twitter for doing so. 

https://www.zerohedg...avirus-pandemic

 

There was a huge pile-on by the media, accusing Zerohedge of pushing a false conspiracy theory. 

A Pro-Trump Blog Doxed A Chinese Scientist It Falsely Accused Of Creating The Coronavirus As A Bioweapon

That was the constant media line all through that period.  Anyone who proposed lab leak was anti-science, "without evidence," "debunked," etc. 

 

Six months later:

Twitter reactivates ‘Zerohedge’ account after suspension:  ‘We made an error’

 

The news is being censored and shaped in a globally coordinated manner.  The lab leak, HCQ, remdesevir, ivermectin, elections, and more.  It’s conducted by the Trusted News Initiative.  I’ll be posting on it with credible references in a few days.  Orwellian evil. 

 


Edited by bladedmind, 05 January 2021 - 05:29 PM.

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#915 mikeinnaples

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 05:57 PM

This topic is a fine example as to why well-informed people that used to be heavy contributors to this site have left. There are enough places out there to debate conspiracy theory nonsense already. It really shouldn't be done here, let alone championed by a moderator. Frankly, it is sad what this community has become. I would implore us to remain scientific based with actual real and verifiable information, but I suspect it is too much to ask now. The rabbit hole has swallowed far too many people.


Edited by mikeinnaples, 05 January 2021 - 06:00 PM.

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#916 mikeinnaples

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 06:10 PM


-------------------------

 

Time to buy some more toilet paper, with the UK variant already loose in the USA.  I expect California Governor Newsom will be making a similar proclamation in a week or so.  New York & other blue states to follow.  

 

Guess this is it folks...  Farewell small business, mom & pop restaurants & pubs.  Wish you could be here when Winter hibernation is over.  Don't know what the world will look like by then, but it won't be the world we once knew.  The Great Reset has arrived!  The Brave New World will be 100% corporate & intimately integrated with government. 

 

Resistance is futile...  You will be assimilated. 

 

Well a lock down won't happen in my state even if bodies were stacked like cordwood on the side of the road.

 

The truth is that the US has sabotaged itself because we have proven to be incapable of separating science from opinion, politics, and conspiracy. Worse, we have been completely incapable of putting the common good and well being of others ahead of temporary and minor personal inconvenience. It never ceases to amaze me that the very same people trying to maintain struggling local businesses are among the most vocal anti-mask/hoax/conspiracy nuts. Nothing like engaging in self-defeating behavior and being to stupid to realize it.


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#917 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 06:27 PM



Well a lock down won't happen in my state even if bodies were stacked like cordwood on the side of the road.

 

The truth is that the US has sabotaged itself because we have proven to be incapable of separating science from opinion, politics, and conspiracy. Worse, we have been completely incapable of putting the common good and well being of others ahead of temporary and minor personal inconvenience. It never ceases to amaze me that the very same people trying to maintain struggling local businesses are among the most vocal anti-mask/hoax/conspiracy nuts. Nothing like engaging in self-defeating behavior and being to stupid to realize it.

 

You act as if "the science" is a settled thing. We still get conflicting research on masks - maybe they work, maybe they don't. And Fauci and the CDC have talked out of both sides of their mouth on the subject. Fauci says - "Well, I only said masks don't work back in the winter because we didn't have enough for healthcare workers to go around".  And lately he's stated that he wasn't completely honest about how bad and how long the pandemic would last with the American people, that he had to "ease them into the truth". Apparently he doesn't understand that your legitimacy is a perishable commodity. You burn it down by telling lies and you don't get to simply reclaim it at a later date. If some people don't entirely trust what he and the CDC says today, it's not entirely without reason.

 

And the US is not in uniquely bad shape.  I want you to look at something. This is a list of the top 20 odd countries in terms of deaths per 1M population.  The US is in there at number 14. There are some third worldish backwaters in there, but you'll also see most of the cream of the crop of top tier Western European countries.  Italy, France, Spain, the UK ..... we're all in basically the same boat.  You'll want to click on that image, it's a bit of an eye chart.

 

Let's try to keep some perspective here. Not everyone that disagrees with any of us is an anti-science conspiracy theorist. This is a complicated issue and teasing apart cause and effect isn't as straight forward as we'd like.

 

 

top-deaths-per-1-M-pop-010521.jpg

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#918 mikeinnaples

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 06:32 PM

 

You act as if "the science" is a settled thing.

 

 

Actually, no, I don't act like science is a settled thing.

 

That is your assumption, it is not how science or my understanding of "science" works, and frankly I am not sure how you could have possibly came to that conclusion from my post.

 

Do better than that. Thanks.


Edited by mikeinnaples, 05 January 2021 - 06:33 PM.

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#919 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 06:43 PM

Actually, no, I don't act like science is a settled thing.

 

That is your assumption, it is not how science or my understanding of "science" works, and frankly I am not sure how you could have possibly came to that conclusion from my post.

 

Do better than that. Thanks.

 

Well, it was probably because I noticed your other post today accusing someone of being a conspiracy theorist earlier in this thread. My fault for conflating the two, I should have addressed them separately.

 

On the other hand, you chose not to comment on the fact that I've given you data that shows that the US is not in a uniquely bad state with covid when compared to it's peers in Western Europe.

 

Perhaps we should all endeavor to "do better".


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 05 January 2021 - 06:47 PM.

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#920 mikeinnaples

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 06:45 PM

Went back and looked at what I wrote and I still don't see how you came to make that incorrect assumption.

 

It couldn't have been this remark:

"The truth is that the US has sabotaged itself because we have proven to be incapable of separating science from opinion, politics, and conspiracy."

 

Nope, I don't say or act like science is settled nor even hinted at it. I was commenting on the people incapable of understanding the difference between those three things and actual science.

 

 

Couldn't have been this either:

"I would implore us to remain scientific based with actual real and verifiable information, but I suspect it is too much to ask now. The rabbit hole has swallowed far too many people."

 

Begging us to remain science focused and to use reputable information isn't in any way a statement about "science being settled".

 

 

 

I did my due diligence and I still can't see how or why you made such a statement.

 

 

 



#921 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 06:54 PM

Went back and looked at what I wrote and I still don't see how you came to make that incorrect assumption.
 
It couldn't have been this remark:
"The truth is that the US has sabotaged itself because we have proven to be incapable of separating science from opinion, politics, and conspiracy."
 
Nope, I don't say or act like science is settled nor even hinted at it. I was commenting on the people incapable of understanding the difference between those three things and actual science.
 
 
Couldn't have been this either:
"I would implore us to remain scientific based with actual real and verifiable information, but I suspect it is too much to ask now. The rabbit hole has swallowed far too many people."
 
Begging us to remain science focused and to use reputable information isn't in any way a statement about "science being settled".
 
 
 
I did my due diligence and I still can't see how or why you made such a statement.

 
You are correct. It was this part of your post (that you omitted above) that the first part of my post was addressing:
 
 

This topic is a fine example as to why well-informed people that used to be heavy contributors to this site have left. There are enough places out there to debate conspiracy theory nonsense already. It really shouldn't be done here, let alone championed by a moderator. Frankly, it is sad what this community has become. I would implore us to remain scientific based with actual real and verifiable information, but I suspect it is too much to ask now. The rabbit hole has swallowed far too many people.

 

I find labeling people who disagree with you as "conspiracy theorist" to be generally intellectually dishonest and lazy.

Do better.
 


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#922 mikeinnaples

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 06:55 PM


On the other hand, you chose not to comment on the fact that I've given you data that shows that the US is not in a uniquely bad state with covid when compared to it's peers in Western Europe.

 

 

 

You do realize that I wasn't referring to other countries with my statement right? I was responding to a post about California with a comment about my state and the US as a whole.

 

Regarding other countries, seems like this is a case of whataboutism ...whatever. Anyhow, I can comment on it if you like. Yeah, other countries are faring poorly too and it is supported by data. Sorry, I didn't realize that was in question.

 

 

 



#923 bladedmind

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 06:59 PM

Not sure what topic mikeinnaples is referring to.  If it's to my mention of the Trusted News Initiative, that's a real thing, just a few search-engine clicks away.  I don't have time to support the claim right now, but notice that I promised to in a few days.   If it's to my linking to sources on the lab leak hypothesis, those sources contain thoroughgoing argument and evidence in support of the hypothesis.  One would attack the hypothesis with argument and evidence, not ad hominem labeling.

 

Moving on,  typical gatekeeping elite journalist, Laurie Garrett, formerly perched at Council of Foreign Relations (a chief enforcer of elite wisdom), dismisses New York Magazine article on lab leak hypothesis merely because it happens to coincide with the views of Republicans such as Mike Pompeo and Steve Bannon.   What a way to reason! 

 

Covid-19 analyst ice9 takes her down hard.   He makes eight points, seven of them fully referenced, and refrains from ad hominem until his concluding tweet.  Quick browse worth a look if interested in topic.   Interesting replies too.


Edited by bladedmind, 05 January 2021 - 07:25 PM.


#924 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 07:02 PM

You do realize that I wasn't referring to other countries with my statement right? I was responding to a post about California with a comment about my state and the US as a whole.
 
Regarding other countries, seems like this is a case of whataboutism ...whatever. Anyhow, I can comment on it if you like. Yeah, other countries are faring poorly too and it is supported by data. Sorry, I didn't realize that was in question.

 
Oh but you were -
 

Well a lock down won't happen in my state even if bodies were stacked like cordwood on the side of the road.
 
The truth is that the US has sabotaged itself because we have proven to be incapable of separating science from opinion, politics, and conspiracy. Worse, we have been completely incapable of putting the common good and well being of others ahead of temporary and minor personal inconvenience. It never ceases to amaze me that the very same people trying to maintain struggling local businesses are among the most vocal anti-mask/hoax/conspiracy nuts. Nothing like engaging in self-defeating behavior and being to stupid to realize it.


You certainly seem to imply that the US has done a uniquely poor job of things, when in fact almost all the Western countries are in the same boat. 

 

I hate that we've gotten into this pissing match. Doesn't seem very productive. 



#925 mikeinnaples

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 07:06 PM

I find labeling people who disagree with you as "conspiracy theorist" to be generally intellectually dishonest and lazy.

Do better.
 

 

I agree with you, if that was in fact what I was doing. However, I wasn't labeling people "I disagree with" as a conspiracy theorist at all. Again, a false assumption that you are making along with an off handed insult.

 

Anyhow, arguing with a forum moderator, and one that seems to have taken my posts personally no less, is a pure no-win situation for me. I will respectfully withdraw.

 

 


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#926 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 07:16 PM

I agree with you, if that was in fact what I was doing. However, I wasn't labeling people "I disagree with" as a conspiracy theorist at all. Again, a false assumption that you are making along with an off handed insult.

 

Anyhow, arguing with a forum moderator, and one that seems to have taken my posts personally no less, is a pure no-win situation for me. I will respectfully withdraw.

 

Ah, so you agree with the conspiracy theorists you mention earlier in the thread. Gotcha.

 

And I don't know why you would consider arguing with me a "no-win situation".  I haven't used even one of my Mod Super Powers in this discussion. ;)  In fact, I haven't even rated one of your posts negatively (or at all).  

 

I don't think this argument is terribly productive so I'm happy to let it end. But don't think you can throw around words like "conspiracy theorist" and accuse people of not being "scientific based" without a little push back. And I haven't taken anything you've said personally. I've got a thicker skin than that and frankly I thought you were talking about the other moderator in this thread.  :-D

 

Maybe we should all just relax and take a deep breath. 


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#927 Florin

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 09:00 PM

Whether or not this pandemic was the result of a lab accident is a bit of a red herring. Almost anyone will be able to create far deadlier viruses fairly soon, and the only practical thing that could offer any sort of reasonable protection in that scenario are reusable respirators, along with a network able to detect novel viruses.


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#928 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 09:17 PM

Whether or not this pandemic was the result of a lab accident is a bit of a red herring. Almost anyone will be able to create far deadlier viruses fairly soon, and the only practical thing that could offer any sort of reasonable protection in that scenario are reusable respirators, along with a network able to detect novel viruses.

 

Excepting of course broad spectrum anti-virals like DRACO and others.

 

If someone is going to use high technology to engineer frightfully transmissible and deadly viruses then don't you think it makes sense to use equally high technology like DRACO and other broad spectrum anti-viral approaches as opposed to hiding in our homes and living the rest of our lives masked up?

 

I've worn this mask nearly every day for the last 10 months. Maybe some people enjoy it, but I don't. I also don't enjoy social isolation. I want to go to dinner, see a movie, take a trip, live my life. I suppose if you're a recluse that likes the feel of cloth on your face this whole thing has been a boon, but I don't want to live the rest of my life like this.

 

I just don't believe that the only solution is reusable respirators. Even if I accept that they were the solution to this pandemic, they shouldn't be the only solution going forward. We can do better than this.


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#929 Florin

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 09:19 PM

We still get conflicting research on masks - maybe they work, maybe they don't. And Fauci and the CDC have talked out of both sides of their mouth on the subject. Fauci says - "Well, I only said masks don't work back in the winter because we didn't have enough for healthcare workers to go around".

 

What no one seems to mention is the inconvenient fact that the CDC and Fauci started recommending the wearing of masks on April 1st, right in the middle of the mask shortage.


Edited by Florin, 05 January 2021 - 09:27 PM.

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#930 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 09:23 PM

What no one seems to mention is the inconvenient fact that the CDC and Fauci started recommending wearing masks on April 1st, right in the middle of the mask shortage.

 

 

Well this was Fauci on March 8th on 60 minutes.

 

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be







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