memespace and public perception
DJS 05 Jun 2006
Votes are great, but comments are greater.
FunkOdyssey 05 Jun 2006
DJS 05 Jun 2006
Lazarus Long 05 Jun 2006
This debate mimics the quest for perfection in the self. There is that which can be pragmatically achieved and that which defines direction in an ideal sense but is not pragmatically achievable.
The validity of the later is without question. The problem is that it overlaps mystical debates and also creates an inherent frustration associated with its demonstrably unachievable (thus borderline irrational) objectives.
I am tempted to vote other (and I haven't yet voted) but I am unsure what to call it.
Pragmatic longevity?
Practical immortality?
I think we could filter more crazies out and attract more scientifically oriented if we made the goals more perceivably attainable and also incremental.
Incremental immortality?
This is why I like Aubrey's *Negligible Senescence* terminology BTW.
DJS 05 Jun 2006
Going back to the naming of the institute the debate ahas raged whether to focus on the definable and achievable short term gains or the *perfect ideal* of the goal of immortality.
This debate mimics the quest for perfection in the self. There is that which can be pragmatically achieved and that which defines direction in an ideal sense but is not pragmatically achievable.
I completely agree with everything you've said, Laz.
DJS 05 Jun 2006
peterragnar 05 Jun 2006
Brainbox 05 Jun 2006
As stated in the other topic, I think our existing mission statement “conquering the blight of involuntary death…” is very very strong.
But how to transfer this into a short soundbite that is positive. I mean without the word “death” directly spoken out.
“life extension” could do it, but that’s hardly original.
Something with “preserve life”, “adore life”, “keep life”, “compose life”, “create life”, “life science”, “science of life”, “life invest”, “sci-life”…
I like the last 3 most. But it's not it yet.
Edit:
"smart-life", "evolve life", "evolving life science",
Not something in the direction like "better-life" or "better-humans". This has a quite negative smell to it imo.
Live Forever 05 Jun 2006
FunkOdyssey 05 Jun 2006
Live Forever 05 Jun 2006
Aah, you are right. I hadn't thought of it like that, thanks Funk. [thumb]Extensionism could mean more than that, as in, extension of the human experience, extension of human capabilities, etc
Maybe it would be possible to encorporate both ideas into one?
"Immortality Institute: Working for Extensionism in all areas of life"
"Immortality Institute: Extending life one millenium at a time"
"Extensionism Institute: Getting closer to Immortality every day"
Ok, those are kind of lame, sorry. The only thing I fear, is that extensionism seems to be a watered down version of immortalism. True it might be easier to swallow for "society at large", but are we really wanting to tailor our message to all the sheeple out there? I do like the word "extensionism" though, I wish it could make its way up and be as popular as "transhumanism".
Edited by Live Forever, 05 June 2006 - 09:47 PM.
DJS 05 Jun 2006
I agree with Funk, Extensionism makes more sense both in terms of our philosophy and our activism.
IMO, Extentionism lends itself more to benign interpretation.
(Edit -- I made this post before I saw Nate's newest post. )
DJS 05 Jun 2006
but are we really wanting to tailor our message to all the sheeple out there?
Nate, you should know by now that catering to the sheeple is not part of my agenda. [sfty]
RighteousReason 05 Jun 2006
Anybody turned off by the idea of "Immortality" completely off hand probably isn't worth appeasing with gentler pronunciations of the same concept.
However...
Technically immortality, transhumanism, and the singularity are all inextricably tied together.
Anybody that wants to live longer has to improve themselves, and if we start doing a lot of improvements, eventually we will achieve improvement "critical mass" and obtain a self-sustaining improvement cycle (intelligence improving intelligence).
Mind 05 Jun 2006
maestro949 05 Jun 2006
Extensionism. Sounds too much like Existentialism.
Negligible Senescense. Too scientific and I'm sure few people will understand the phrase and worse even be intimidated by it.
The best marketing approach is to formulate a name that eventually comes to define the meme rather than be a descriptive phrase that already describes the meme. At first the phrase should be image free and emotionally void in order to spark curiosity but eventually should come to be a household name that is synonymous with a significantly extended lifespan that is achieved through, as Aubrey would put it "by goal-directed, biotechnological efforts, rationally designed on the basis of solid scientific knowledge."
The word or phrase should bring exactly that to mind. Not the cynicism evoked by pseudo science, utopian goals and especially not the emotions stoked by the image of religion (deism as Prometheus stated above).
If you can come up with a latin, greek or ancient translation that rolls off the tongue and is related to the meme, awesome, as having a story to tell gives urinalists something to fluff up their articles with. For example, "The Zeno Institute" would be a clever name (as an example, not necessarily a recommendation). Zeno proposed the false paradox of Achilles not being able to overtake the tortouise. This parallels the false belief that immortality cannot be overtaken because
Live Forever 05 Jun 2006
Continuationism (to keep continuing on in life, people could be Continuationists)
Additionism (to keep adding to life, people could be Additionists)
Postponementism (to keep postponing death, people would be Postponmentalists)
Prolongationism (to keep prolonging death, people could be Prolongationists)
Amplificationism (to keep amplifying yourself, people could be Amplificationists)
Expantionalism (to keep expanding oneself, people could be Expantionists) - kind of sounds like Extensionism though
Supplementalism (to keep supplementing yourself, people could be Supplementalists)
Broadanism (to keep broadening oneself, people could be Broadanists)
Magnificationism (to keep magnifying oneself, people could be Magnificationists)
Timelessness (or Timelessism, to be timeless, people could be Timelessists) - similar to immortalism
Endlessness (or Endlessism, to be without end, people could be Endlessists) - also similar to immoralism
DJS 05 Jun 2006
Extensionism. Sounds too much like Existentialism.
I consider the similarity to be a net plus.
Lazarus Long 05 Jun 2006
At least you didn't try elongationalism.
DukeNukem 06 Jun 2006
Also, the general scientific community will stand behind extensionism well before they stand behind immortalism. This is obvious to everyone, right?
Extensionism is based in reality, and science has been doing this for a century now, based on average lifespan increases, so it's a concept that's impossible to argue against...we're already doing it.
Also, by adopting this new phrase, it becomes newsworthy, where the word immortality has been around forever. So there's nothing newsworthy about it. I cannot stress this point enough -- the press only cares about topics that are new and different than what's come before. So, anyone wanting to stick with "immortality" is merely dooming this group to its current fate as a meaningless oddity known by a limited few insiders.
Still, a new name does not address a more fundamental point: Why should anyone outside this group care about this group? What meaningful purpose does it fulfill? Until this question is properly answered, good name or not, this group is just a tiny tick on the Internet's ass.
06 Jun 2006
How about "We Don't Want to Die Inc."
Heh.. or "Thanatophobia Support Group"
On a serious note,
Immortalism. Blech. Still conveys us as a lunatic fringe promoting pseudo-science.
Extensionism. Sounds too much like Existentialism.
Negligible Senescense. Too scientific and I'm sure few people will understand the phrase and worse even be intimidated by it.
Is a reasonable summation of the unispiring state of affairs.. I voted for "other". I favour the
International Society for Lifespan Research.
It is more in keeping with our present activities as well as our various aspirations for this organization.
Live Forever 06 Jun 2006
Lifespan Research Institute
Life Extension Society
Society for the Postponement of Death
World Association of Life Extensionists
Alliance of Those Who Don't Want to Die
..ok, that last one was kind of silly, but the others seem semi-viable. Any other ideas?
It would have to incorporate at least 2 items, the first being a "group" type name (institute, alliance, association, community, society, etc.) and the second being whatever terminology to use (extensionist, extensionism, immortality, timeless, anti-death statements, lifespan research, etc.)
U_N 06 Jun 2006
I see Extensionism as a step backward or a step to appease the herd. Neither of which is acceptable. Ever Forward!
Well said.I like immortalism and extensionism both, but immortalism seems to me to focus on a broader range of issues (Singularity, cryonics, curing aging, etc.) rather just on extending current lifespans, as extensionism seems to imply.
This is true, but you are looking at it from Our perspective. Do you believe that the common man will understand Extensionism to be along the same lines as what you or I may see Extensionism to be? I believe that Immortalism gives a much clearer picture of our goal.Extensionism could mean more than that, as in, extension of the human experience, extension of human capabilities, etc
Live Forever came up with, "Immortality Institute: Working for Extensionism in all areas of life." This definitely gets the point across and covers a broad array of topics.
06 Jun 2006
Do you believe that the common man will understand Extensionism to be along the same lines as what you or I may see Extensionism to be? I believe that Immortalism gives a much clearer picture of our goal.
It is essential that a substantial part of our support contingent must rest with the "common man". A good example is the Methuselah Prize which has prioritized resonance with the public and press over its scientific utility. Their objective is PR first and science second. It is not the way I would have done it, but it appears to be working. That is not to say it would not have been more successful if science was the priority, but the point I wish to make is that their focus is on connecting with the "common man".
Therefore we must not allow ourselves to become disconnected from the public and the scientific community merely to indulge the fantasies of a few. A more palatable name and a realistic manifesto with implementable objectives will enable the Institute a far broader reach and access to a greater diversity and wealth of resources.
U_N 06 Jun 2006
Oh, no doubt. PR is a must if this community is to grow. It's just a matter of how far we are to go.Therefore we must not allow ourselves to become disconnected from the public and the scientific community merely to indulge the fantasies of a few.
My intention wasn't to say that we are some elitist group casting out the rest of society. It was my poor wording if I came off that way.
doug123 06 Jun 2006
I tried running such a name change (or name alteration) by Bruce about a month or two ago when I tried to suggest ImmInst could use its search results to generate capital for more projects. I can't say my suggestion garnered a particularly favorable response... Without "whoring" the forum out to the highest bidder or compromising it's mission, the Institute could generate a lot more capital (and public interest in the cause) with the right marketing strategy. Besides supplement products (which can be wickedly profitable), perhaps a banner for the Pat Robertson Leg Press? [lol]
I found Exploring Life Extension to be very informative and everyone should check it out; and I would be pleased to see more along the same lines produced that would still be parallel with the current mission of this Institute, which I personally adore.
Peace.