• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans


Adverts help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.


Photo
- - - - -

memespace and public perception


  • Please log in to reply
153 replies to this topic

Poll: Which label do you prefer for our movement/philosophy? (50 member(s) have cast votes)

Which label do you prefer for our movement/philosophy?

  1. Immortalism (18 votes [37.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.50%

  2. Extensionism (15 votes [31.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.25%

  3. Other (15 votes [31.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.25%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 DJS

  • Guest
  • 5,798 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Taipei
  • NO

Posted 05 June 2006 - 04:20 PM


This promises to be a hot button issue, but I'm very interested to hear opinions on the matter.

Votes are great, but comments are greater.

#2 FunkOdyssey

  • Guest
  • 3,443 posts
  • 166
  • Location:Manchester, CT USA

Posted 05 June 2006 - 04:28 PM

Extensionism is much easier to swallow, and doesn't challenge everyone's religious beliefs so directly. Considering only 14% of Americans are athiest/agnostic, we would certainly benefit from improving our compatibility with the other 86%.

#3 DJS

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 5,798 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Taipei
  • NO

Posted 05 June 2006 - 04:50 PM

Rather than the predominately Christian majority, my sights are set on a piece of the 10% pie composed of rational minds that might be freaked out by our *in your face* terminology.

sponsored ad

  • Advert

#4 Lazarus Long

  • Life Member, Guardian
  • 8,116 posts
  • 242
  • Location:Northern, Western Hemisphere of Earth, Usually of late, New York

Posted 05 June 2006 - 05:02 PM

Going back to the naming of the institute the debate has raged whether to focus on the definable and achievable short term gains or the *perfect ideal* of the goal of immortality.

This debate mimics the quest for perfection in the self. There is that which can be pragmatically achieved and that which defines direction in an ideal sense but is not pragmatically achievable.

The validity of the later is without question. The problem is that it overlaps mystical debates and also creates an inherent frustration associated with its demonstrably unachievable (thus borderline irrational) objectives.

I am tempted to vote other (and I haven't yet voted) but I am unsure what to call it.

Pragmatic longevity?

Practical immortality?

I think we could filter more crazies out and attract more scientifically oriented if we made the goals more perceivably attainable and also incremental.

Incremental immortality?

This is why I like Aubrey's *Negligible Senescence* terminology BTW.

#5 DJS

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 5,798 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Taipei
  • NO

Posted 05 June 2006 - 05:24 PM

Going back to the naming of the institute the debate ahas raged whether to focus on the definable and achievable short term gains or the *perfect ideal* of the goal of immortality.

This debate mimics the quest for perfection in the self. There is that which can be pragmatically achieved and that which defines direction in an ideal sense but is not pragmatically achievable.


I completely agree with everything you've said, Laz.

#6 DJS

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 5,798 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Taipei
  • NO

Posted 05 June 2006 - 06:35 PM

Everything except that I'd probably go with "Extensionism", though I am open to suggestions.

#7 peterragnar

  • Life Member
  • 53 posts
  • 0

Posted 05 June 2006 - 07:20 PM

Don, I'll have to agree that the public will find this easier to swallow. However, from my experience, anything you say or title that disagrees with convention is going to get you viewed as unrealistic. So...? Laz, if you really want to tic christians off, mention the word "Perfection". Ah ha! I am the god I have always sought to find! One that has the potential of unlimited, "Extensionism".

#8 Brainbox

  • Member
  • 2,860 posts
  • 743
  • Location:Netherlands
  • NO

Posted 05 June 2006 - 07:29 PM

I voted "other".

As stated in the other topic, I think our existing mission statement “conquering the blight of involuntary death…” is very very strong.

But how to transfer this into a short soundbite that is positive. I mean without the word “death” directly spoken out.

“life extension” could do it, but that’s hardly original.

Something with “preserve life”, “adore life”, “keep life”, “compose life”, “create life”, “life science”, “science of life”, “life invest”, “sci-life”…

I like the last 3 most. But it's not it yet.

Edit:

"smart-life", "evolve life", "evolving life science",

Not something in the direction like "better-life" or "better-humans". This has a quite negative smell to it imo.

#9 RighteousReason

  • Guest
  • 2,491 posts
  • -103
  • Location:Atlanta, GA

Posted 05 June 2006 - 08:43 PM

Life extension or Negligible Senesence

#10 Live Forever

  • Guest Recorder
  • 7,475 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:07 PM

I like immortalism and extensionism both, but immortalism seems to me to focus on a broader range of issues (Singularity, cryonics, curing aging, etc.) rather just on extending current lifespans, as extensionism seems to imply.

#11 FunkOdyssey

  • Guest
  • 3,443 posts
  • 166
  • Location:Manchester, CT USA

Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:10 PM

Extensionism could mean more than that, as in, extension of the human experience, extension of human capabilities, etc

#12 Live Forever

  • Guest Recorder
  • 7,475 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:22 PM

Extensionism could mean more than that, as in, extension of the human experience, extension of human capabilities, etc

Aah, you are right. I hadn't thought of it like that, thanks Funk. [thumb]

Maybe it would be possible to encorporate both ideas into one?

"Immortality Institute: Working for Extensionism in all areas of life"
"Immortality Institute: Extending life one millenium at a time"
"Extensionism Institute: Getting closer to Immortality every day"

Ok, those are kind of lame, sorry. The only thing I fear, is that extensionism seems to be a watered down version of immortalism. True it might be easier to swallow for "society at large", but are we really wanting to tailor our message to all the sheeple out there? I do like the word "extensionism" though, I wish it could make its way up and be as popular as "transhumanism".

Edited by Live Forever, 05 June 2006 - 09:47 PM.


#13 DJS

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 5,798 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Taipei
  • NO

Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:25 PM

How does the term "Immortalism" address the Singularity or other types of transhumanistic augmentation?

I agree with Funk, Extensionism makes more sense both in terms of our philosophy and our activism.

IMO, Extentionism lends itself more to benign interpretation.

(Edit -- I made this post before I saw Nate's newest post. :) )

#14 DJS

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 5,798 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Taipei
  • NO

Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:29 PM

but are we really wanting to tailor our message to all the sheeple out there?


Nate, you should know by now that catering to the sheeple is not part of my agenda. [sfty]

#15 RighteousReason

  • Guest
  • 2,491 posts
  • -103
  • Location:Atlanta, GA

Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:46 PM

Some observations...

Anybody turned off by the idea of "Immortality" completely off hand probably isn't worth appeasing with gentler pronunciations of the same concept.

However...

Technically immortality, transhumanism, and the singularity are all inextricably tied together.


Anybody that wants to live longer has to improve themselves, and if we start doing a lot of improvements, eventually we will achieve improvement "critical mass" and obtain a self-sustaining improvement cycle (intelligence improving intelligence).

#16 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 18,997 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 05 June 2006 - 10:31 PM

I voted for Immortalism. It seems to me an "extensionism meme" or terminology would be a subset of Immortalism. Immortalism is more encompassing.

#17 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 18,997 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 05 June 2006 - 10:32 PM

If we did want to "soften" the wording, I like "practical Immortality".

#18 maestro949

  • Guest
  • 2,350 posts
  • 4
  • Location:Rhode Island, USA

Posted 05 June 2006 - 10:50 PM

Immortalism. Blech. Still conveys us as a lunatic fringe promoting pseudo-science.

Extensionism. Sounds too much like Existentialism.

Negligible Senescense. Too scientific and I'm sure few people will understand the phrase and worse even be intimidated by it.

The best marketing approach is to formulate a name that eventually comes to define the meme rather than be a descriptive phrase that already describes the meme. At first the phrase should be image free and emotionally void in order to spark curiosity but eventually should come to be a household name that is synonymous with a significantly extended lifespan that is achieved through, as Aubrey would put it "by goal-directed, biotechnological efforts, rationally designed on the basis of solid scientific knowledge."

The word or phrase should bring exactly that to mind. Not the cynicism evoked by pseudo science, utopian goals and especially not the emotions stoked by the image of religion (deism as Prometheus stated above).

If you can come up with a latin, greek or ancient translation that rolls off the tongue and is related to the meme, awesome, as having a story to tell gives urinalists something to fluff up their articles with. For example, "The Zeno Institute" would be a clever name (as an example, not necessarily a recommendation). Zeno proposed the false paradox of Achilles not being able to overtake the tortouise. This parallels the false belief that immortality cannot be overtaken because . Just like science eventually proved Zeno wrong, science will prove the naysayers on life extension wrong.

#19 Live Forever

  • Guest Recorder
  • 7,475 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 05 June 2006 - 11:07 PM

Terms off the top of my head that could be used:

Continuationism (to keep continuing on in life, people could be Continuationists)
Additionism (to keep adding to life, people could be Additionists)
Postponementism (to keep postponing death, people would be Postponmentalists)
Prolongationism (to keep prolonging death, people could be Prolongationists)
Amplificationism (to keep amplifying yourself, people could be Amplificationists)
Expantionalism (to keep expanding oneself, people could be Expantionists) - kind of sounds like Extensionism though
Supplementalism (to keep supplementing yourself, people could be Supplementalists)
Broadanism (to keep broadening oneself, people could be Broadanists)
Magnificationism (to keep magnifying oneself, people could be Magnificationists)
Timelessness (or Timelessism, to be timeless, people could be Timelessists) - similar to immortalism
Endlessness (or Endlessism, to be without end, people could be Endlessists) - also similar to immoralism

#20 Shepard

  • Member, Director, Moderator
  • 6,360 posts
  • 932
  • Location:Auburn, AL

Posted 05 June 2006 - 11:09 PM

How about "We Don't Want to Die Inc."

#21 DJS

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 5,798 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Taipei
  • NO

Posted 05 June 2006 - 11:31 PM

maestro949

Extensionism. Sounds too much like Existentialism.


I consider the similarity to be a net plus.

#22 Lazarus Long

  • Life Member, Guardian
  • 8,116 posts
  • 242
  • Location:Northern, Western Hemisphere of Earth, Usually of late, New York

Posted 05 June 2006 - 11:34 PM

Nate half of the names you have chosen sound like the sexual enhancement spam I keep having to delete. :))

At least you didn't try elongationalism.

#23 jaydfox

  • Guest
  • 6,214 posts
  • 1
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia

Posted 05 June 2006 - 11:48 PM

Thanks shep, that's one of the better ones suggested. [thumb]

#24 DukeNukem

  • Guest
  • 2,008 posts
  • 141
  • Location:Dallas, Texas

Posted 06 June 2006 - 12:11 AM

I feel a LOT better about calling myself an Extensionist versus an Immortalist. In fact, I'm never stupid enough to use the world "immortality" about anything I do. I prefer not to be seen as a certified wacko.

Also, the general scientific community will stand behind extensionism well before they stand behind immortalism. This is obvious to everyone, right?

Extensionism is based in reality, and science has been doing this for a century now, based on average lifespan increases, so it's a concept that's impossible to argue against...we're already doing it.

Also, by adopting this new phrase, it becomes newsworthy, where the word immortality has been around forever. So there's nothing newsworthy about it. I cannot stress this point enough -- the press only cares about topics that are new and different than what's come before. So, anyone wanting to stick with "immortality" is merely dooming this group to its current fate as a meaningless oddity known by a limited few insiders.

Still, a new name does not address a more fundamental point: Why should anyone outside this group care about this group? What meaningful purpose does it fulfill? Until this question is properly answered, good name or not, this group is just a tiny tick on the Internet's ass.

#25

  • Lurker
  • 1

Posted 06 June 2006 - 12:29 AM

How about "We Don't Want to Die Inc."


Heh.. or "Thanatophobia Support Group"

On a serious note,

Immortalism. Blech. Still conveys us as a lunatic fringe promoting pseudo-science.

Extensionism. Sounds too much like Existentialism.

Negligible Senescense. Too scientific and I'm sure few people will understand the phrase and worse even be intimidated by it.


Is a reasonable summation of the unispiring state of affairs.. I voted for "other". I favour the

International Society for Lifespan Research.

It is more in keeping with our present activities as well as our various aspirations for this organization.

#26 Live Forever

  • Guest Recorder
  • 7,475 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 06 June 2006 - 12:37 AM

or,
Lifespan Research Institute

Life Extension Society

Society for the Postponement of Death

World Association of Life Extensionists

Alliance of Those Who Don't Want to Die

..ok, that last one was kind of silly, but the others seem semi-viable. Any other ideas?

It would have to incorporate at least 2 items, the first being a "group" type name (institute, alliance, association, community, society, etc.) and the second being whatever terminology to use (extensionist, extensionism, immortality, timeless, anti-death statements, lifespan research, etc.)

#27 U_N

  • Guest
  • 47 posts
  • 4
  • Location:Here. Now.

Posted 06 June 2006 - 02:15 AM

I voted for Immortalism. I think 'ImmInst: For Infinite Lifespans' is outstanding as it is.

I see Extensionism as a step backward or a step to appease the herd. Neither of which is acceptable. Ever Forward!


I like immortalism and extensionism both, but immortalism seems to me to focus on a broader range of issues (Singularity, cryonics, curing aging, etc.) rather just on extending current lifespans, as extensionism seems to imply.

Well said.

Extensionism could mean more than that, as in, extension of the human experience, extension of human capabilities, etc

This is true, but you are looking at it from Our perspective. Do you believe that the common man will understand Extensionism to be along the same lines as what you or I may see Extensionism to be? I believe that Immortalism gives a much clearer picture of our goal.

Live Forever came up with, "Immortality Institute: Working for Extensionism in all areas of life." This definitely gets the point across and covers a broad array of topics.

#28

  • Lurker
  • 1

Posted 06 June 2006 - 04:37 AM

Do you believe that the common man will understand Extensionism to be along the same lines as what you or I may see Extensionism to be? I believe that Immortalism gives a much clearer picture of our goal.


It is essential that a substantial part of our support contingent must rest with the "common man". A good example is the Methuselah Prize which has prioritized resonance with the public and press over its scientific utility. Their objective is PR first and science second. It is not the way I would have done it, but it appears to be working. That is not to say it would not have been more successful if science was the priority, but the point I wish to make is that their focus is on connecting with the "common man".

Therefore we must not allow ourselves to become disconnected from the public and the scientific community merely to indulge the fantasies of a few. A more palatable name and a realistic manifesto with implementable objectives will enable the Institute a far broader reach and access to a greater diversity and wealth of resources.

#29 U_N

  • Guest
  • 47 posts
  • 4
  • Location:Here. Now.

Posted 06 June 2006 - 04:54 AM

Therefore we must not allow ourselves to become disconnected from the public and the scientific community merely to indulge the fantasies of a few.

Oh, no doubt. PR is a must if this community is to grow. It's just a matter of how far we are to go.

My intention wasn't to say that we are some elitist group casting out the rest of society. It was my poor wording if I came off that way.

#30 doug123

  • Guest
  • 2,424 posts
  • -1
  • Location:Nowhere

Posted 06 June 2006 - 05:15 AM

I don't think Bruce would take the name change lightly at all. The concept of Immortality is not what I am afraid of; however, I am concerned of its mainstream appeal.

I tried running such a name change (or name alteration) by Bruce about a month or two ago when I tried to suggest ImmInst could use its search results to generate capital for more projects. I can't say my suggestion garnered a particularly favorable response... Without "whoring" the forum out to the highest bidder or compromising it's mission, the Institute could generate a lot more capital (and public interest in the cause) with the right marketing strategy. Besides supplement products (which can be wickedly profitable), perhaps a banner for the Pat Robertson Leg Press? [lol]

I found Exploring Life Extension to be very informative and everyone should check it out; and I would be pleased to see more along the same lines produced that would still be parallel with the current mission of this Institute, which I personally adore.

Peace.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users