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potential Gotu Kola's side effects

gotu kola

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#1 faxmulder

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 10:12 AM


Hi folks,
 
M34, normal-weight, bloodworks (overall parameters and hormones) fine, except low vit D and LH levels (the latter probably caused by low-grade varicocele).
I'd interested in trying Gotu Kola for my issues, i.e. focus, brain fog, mild anxiety and repetitive checking/OCD behaviours, dry skin, cold hands. I've seen that GT is often advised for "being more in the present", thus I believe it could be useful in my situation.
 
My current daily stack is: multivitamin, resveratrol, curcumin, vit D, chlorella, N-Acetyl Glucosamine, polygala, agmatine, magnesium, grape seed extract and ornithine (for deeper sleep).
 
Pre-workout stack: PanaMax ginseng (cycled with rhodiola and cordyceps), alpha GPC, dynamine, citrulline, taurine and forskolin (I'm considering adding also carnosine/beta-alanine).
 
I have a few questions:
  • Do you see any potential bad interaction or overlap by adding Gotu Kola to my daily stack?
  • GT's effects on libido and testosterone production: I've seen a reference on Examine and some scary stories about testicle shrinkage :-/
  • Is it okay to take agmatine daily, or would it be better to take only on workout days?
 
Thanks for your help!

 



#2 gamesguru

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 02:22 PM

honestly after reading the first few lines i think we should just go through with the varicocele surgery.  it is mild, has maximum 1 month recovery, and if it "unblocks" testosterone that's a bonus.

 

gotu kola is more established in the context of anxiety than OCD, and even there its effect may be a weak effect.  I find just as much as it puts you in the present it makes you drowsy or spaced out; not sure if it is varying levels of asiaticoside or just my response.

 

i dont see any liabilities adding it now, but perhaps down the road when you add even more.  I would also consider hanging question marks on resveratrol, glucosmaine, GSE, GPC, taurine and forskolin.  Why add something that doesnt make a clear or unique addition?

 

i would advise ginger for volume of the testes and total T levels [1][2], it also has the interesting effect of alleviating anxiety.  There are other things i'm sure you could deliberate on and throw at it as well: ginseng, maca, zinc, boron, tribulus, and more.

 

as for the OCD, i think inositol[1] is an interesting one.  Probably safer than St Johns and more effective than Gotu kola.  Inositol intake can also be manipulated to a significant degree by small changes in diet.  I would assume, like depression, that OCD is caused partly by low serotonin; things like magnesium, green tea, and zinc might be expected to help.

 

regrettably we have exhausted many of the low-hanging fruits.  We may have to revisit old ideas, try more potent and more unique natural extracts, combined with new approaches in the lab



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#3 faxmulder

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 03:39 PM

honestly after reading the first few lines i think we should just go through with the varicocele surgery.  it is mild, has maximum 1 month recovery, and if it "unblocks" testosterone that's a bonus.

 

gotu kola is more established in the context of anxiety than OCD, and even there its effect may be a weak effect.  I find just as much as it puts you in the present it makes you drowsy or spaced out; not sure if it is varying levels of asiaticoside or just my response.

 

i dont see any liabilities adding it now, but perhaps down the road when you add even more.  I would also consider hanging question marks on resveratrol, glucosmaine, GSE, GPC, taurine and forskolin.  Why add something that doesnt make a clear or unique addition?

 

i would advise ginger for volume of the testes and total T levels [1][2], it also has the interesting effect of alleviating anxiety.  There are other things i'm sure you could deliberate on and throw at it as well: ginseng, maca, zinc, boron, tribulus, and more.

 

as for the OCD, i think inositol[1] is an interesting one.  Probably safer than St Johns and more effective than Gotu kola.  Inositol intake can also be manipulated to a significant degree by small changes in diet.  I would assume, like depression, that OCD is caused partly by low serotonin; things like magnesium, green tea, and zinc might be expected to help.

 

regrettably we have exhausted many of the low-hanging fruits.  We may have to revisit old ideas, try more potent and more unique natural extracts, combined with new approaches in the lab

 

Hi man, thanks for your insight. I'll look into ginger. Do you have any suggestion about brands? Or is it better to take as a food?

 

  • Dermalogist prescribed the mix resveratrol + curcumin for addressing autoimmune symptom - I have an autoimmune TH2 disease (lichen), causing itch and inflammed scalp. Basically, I'm responding well to supplements which regulate my immune systems, instead of boosting it.
     
  • NAG: I've added it, together with vit C, because it should help with dry skin, since it is the precursor of hyaluronic acid. Do you think that also iodine could help with dry skin?
     
  • Forskolin, because I've read that it can enhance LH values, and also help with autoimmune disease.
    'll try tribulus next.
     
  • Do you think that ginseng could help with both "mental" and physical issues, while preserving LH and testosterone levels? Nootropics Depot PanaMax is a combo of ginseng and schisandra which seems pretty interesting.
     
  • What's your take on cordyceps, rhodiola and taurine? Could they be helpful for my issues?
     
  • Last but not least, do you have any experience with NAC for OCD?

Thanks!

 

 



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#4 gamesguru

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 05:07 PM

i dont know, its probably fine to take as a food.

 

i suppose resveratrol used for inflammatory disease is fine.  Could even get aging benefits as a side effect.  I would just monitor it like any other medicine then.

 

the problem with glucosamine and skin aging is that there isn't any strong evidence it can reach the joints or alleviate arthritis.  I wouldn't assume it makes a significant boost in hyaluronic acid.

 

forskolin is sort of like berberine, supposedly effective for 100 things but not actually much of anything.  It was supposedly a brain hack along with artichoke extract a few years ago, but enthusiasm and support seems to have faded.

 

ginseng could definitely help with mental and physical "alertness".  if male function is your main short-term goal however, i would look into ginkgo[1][2] alongside ginger before ginseng.  Ginkgo is more of a short term nootropic though, at least for me it didnt have as much staying power in the cabinet as ginseng.

 

i would say cordyceps is the least controversial of those three.  But i dont know if any apply that much to you.

 

no experience with NAC, but i've heard good things about it.  Good for addiction, the liver, synaptic plasiticity, you name it.  I've heard a few mixed reports, but i think overall it's safe and cool and worth a shot to see what you think



#5 DaveX

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 04:43 PM

See this: "Inverted U-shaped response of a standardized extract of Centella asiatica (ECa 233) on memory enhancement"

 https://www.nature.c...598-019-44867-z

 

Basically, dosing of Gotu Kola can be very tricky and is not fully understood. Small doses seem to yield the best result, and higher doses have opposite effects (which someone might like anyway). It has many constituents, like Triterpenes, Asiaticosides and Madecassosides, all of which may be standardised and have slightly different effects, but it has probably more constituents (I've seen Quercetin mentioned once, which is not very surprising in plants). (It can also have estrogenic effects, by the way, and even slight anti-sperm effects, though I've forgotten the right term so you could more easily google it.)

I personally tend to get the nootropic results I want from just 2-4 (let's say 3) capsules of powder from Now Foods. Higher doses yield a dampening response. Different standardised extracts had different effects.



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#6 gamesguru

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 07:22 PM

See this: "Inverted U-shaped response of a standardized extract of Centella asiatica (ECa 233) on memory enhancement"

 https://www.nature.c...598-019-44867-z

 

Basically, dosing of Gotu Kola can be very tricky and is not fully understood. Small doses seem to yield the best result, and higher doses have opposite effects (which someone might like anyway). It has many constituents, like Triterpenes, Asiaticosides and Madecassosides, all of which may be standardised and have slightly different effects, but it has probably more constituents (I've seen Quercetin mentioned once, which is not very surprising in plants). (It can also have estrogenic effects, by the way, and even slight anti-sperm effects, though I've forgotten the right term so you could more easily google it.)

I personally tend to get the nootropic results I want from just 2-4 (let's say 3) capsules of powder from Now Foods. Higher doses yield a dampening response. Different standardised extracts had different effects.

 

Small dose is a relative term.  That study reports maximum effect at 30mg/kg of ECa233 (containing madecassoside [53.1 %] and asiaticoside [32.3 %]). This extract is about 1.5-2x more potent than what is available over-the-counter. 

 

This is in rats so we need to scale down by a factor six in people.  That's 5 mg/kg of the extract.  Or about 350mg for an average male. 

 

Compare that to the 360mg of 30-40% extract sold at NootropicsDepot, and you see it's hard to achieve that level for something that's 1.5-2x as potent.  You would come close, but exceeding the maxima of the U-curve would not be practical for humans taking OTC supplements within the recommended guidelines.







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