33 replies to this topic

[athanatos]

I plan to dedicate this summer to working out, nonstop, almost every day. I need as much of an increase as possible, because I'm going into varsity for both football and wrestling. I'm also trying to lose weight, for wrestling. I'm 16 years old.

I've picked out a large amount of different bodybuilding supplements to both build me up and get rid of the excess fat, but with my current knowledge, I've no idea if I'll end up killing myself taking all these supplements at one time.

This is a list of what I'll be taking:

Jay Robb's Whey Protein + Amino Acids. I know this one will be safe.

No-Xplode Creatine + Nitric Oxide powder drink mix form.

Hot-Rox Thermogenic Weight Loss Pill - this seemed much safer than Hydroxycut Hardcore, which boasted about having as much caffiene as three cups of coffee per serving, and wanted me to take two servings per day.

L-Glutamine

Tribulus for a small testosterone boost.

Universal Animal M-Stak for an anabolic boost of some sort.

Someone also suggested taking Redline, a drink that will give me more of an adrenaline boost than red bull, but after reading over I think it combined with Hot-Rox would kill me, so I've decided against it.

I was also considering the Anator p-70, but that was nothing close to what it claimed to be. I don't think it's worth 100$ a can.

Remember, if nobody says otherwise, I'm going to take everything I've got bolded. I have a system set up for the creatine, 3 weeks taking it then 2 weeks not, but the rest I'll be taking probably daily for this entire summer. I've done all the reasearch I can on these, so if anyone knows something I don't, please keep me from making a mistake.

[Shepard]

My advice: forget about all of that. At 16, all you need is a good diet, intense training, and plenty of rest.

The only supplements I would use for those goals:

Good multi, additional vitamins/minerals as needed
Protein powder of your choice
Creatine of your choice (I prefer plain mono, but CEE would work)
Maybe glutamine, depending on the length/intensity of your training

Also, don't think that more training automatically means better training. While you should be able to do quite a bit without overtraining at that age (with the right diet and rest), too much is as bad as not enough.

[ajnast4r]

body building supplements usually use low quality ingredients & sacrifice health & saftey for the sake of getting bigger muscles.

ive tried redline drinks.. the combo of caffeine & yohimbe is a VERY strong stimulant. defintly would not recomend that every day.

diet, nutrition, exercise, sleep, and hard work is all you need.

[athanatos]

So instead of spending every day at the gym, I should cut it down to maybe 5 days a week? I think that's as low as I'll go. I'm still going to run and do some basics like push ups and crunches on the weekends though.

I'll take your advice and drop the Tribulus and Animal M Pack, mainly because I'm not sure if a testosterone boost is such a good thing for a 16 year old, and I've got no idea what the Animal M Pack is actually going to do for me. I'll still be considering the Hot-Rox weight loss pill, as right now I'm aiming to lose about 30-40 pounds of fat in just 2 - 2.5 months.

[Shepard]

How I miss the stubbornness and impatience of my teenage years.

Without knowing your exact training program, it's hard to say how often you should train. But just going off of your enthusiasm, I have a feeling it might lead to overtraining...which is either going to tire you out physically and mentally, or it could lead to an abrupt end to training and a bag of Doritos.

Let me ask you this: what do you think the Hot-Rox pills will do for you? Also, what are your nutrition plans to lose that kind of weight? Do you realize the daily deficit that is going to be required? Do you realize how hard it's going to be to maintain LBM and your sanity on a diet that strict for that length of time?

Sorry, I don't mean to be a dick. But, you need to be sure of what you're getting into.

[athanatos]

On the contrary, you're not being a dick, you're watching out for my well-being, and I thank you for that.

I think the Hot-Rox pills should help me to increase the amount of fat I burn over that time period, and decrease the amount of time it takes for my body to reach it's peak fat burning capabilities. Maybe I should just take them for a week or two to give my body a head start, then get rid of them.

I understand what you mean about overworking myself, I plan to make a perfect schedule which I will follow weekly. Mainly working out different muscle groups on different days of the week (free weight lifting) then rest my muscles on weekends, jogging/running daily, along with 100-200 push ups and sit ups daily.

I'm going to be working myself as hard as possible, and want to get as much out of it as I can. I know some of these supplements may not be healthy, and I'll be careful with those. I'd stay away from them actually.

I was considering some sort of diet, possibly catabolic, although I haven't researched that at all. Pretty much I was just going to cut down on junk food, maybe have only two meals a day, with the second one at around 3-4 PM, and mainly being some sort of salad.

I will be taking a great multi-vitamin, and I've been trying to get my hands on some sort of fish oil supplement.

[Shepard]

The absolute most important thing to consider when trying to lose weight is diet. If you go too low, you're not going to have the energy needed to train (much less recover properly). If you don't get enough protein, you're going to lose LBM fairly rapidly. And, of course if you eat too much, you'll put on mass (not necessarily a bad thing, since you'll be training). Assuming you're untrained, you have a great opportunity to 'recomp' (lose fat and add muscle). I would find out your caloric requirements, then take away a modest percentage (15-25%), put all of the carbs around training time, and make sure to get adequate protein/fiber/fat. Too much training is bad enough, if you couple that with not enough nutrients, you're looking at a train wreck.

What type of training are you planning on doing? If I was looking to do this, I'd go for three full-body workouts (compound lifts; have someone experienced walk you through them...although this can be a dangerous gamble at times) a week with 3-4 modest aerobic workouts tossed in. Other things could be added later, but they aren't the best for a beginner. This is assuming your diet is locked in, otherwise even something like this will make you miserable fairly quickly.

BTW, good call on the fish oil. I should have mentioned it. As far as other supplementation, I still urge you not to use Hot-Rox. One, I think it's garbage. There are certainly substances/stacks that can be used to accelerate fat loss, but they fall into the category of "unless you know about them, you've no business using them." Try coffee alone as a stimulant if you need it. Besides, the claims that Hot-Rox makes are issues that arise near the end of a diet, not at the beginning.

[Centurion]

How I miss the stubbornness and impatience of my teenage years.

Sixteen seems like a distant memory almost, I laugh sometimes at just how naive and immature I was back then, so much moreso than your average teenager. While I didn't do anything overly stupid, I was a total fool now that I think about it! lol

Still, I gotta agree with shep here, diet is such a huge factor in the development of a teenager. Sleep also is important, be sure to get your eight hours!

[athanatos]

I'm not a complete novice at free weight training, it's been a hobby on and off for a few years now, and I can max bench a good 250 lbs. but my form isn't the best, and I don't have every style of lifting down pat. I should double check with someone with experience, to make sure I'm doing everything correctly.

I'll be getting in a good amount of cardio daily. 100 push ups a night to give me an extra boost for my bench press, and 200 sit-ups to cut down on my mile time.

I also plan to either jog or run to the gym every day. It's only a few miles from my house, no more than 4-5. If I get too tired I can walk, then rest when I get there.

I'm considering doing strength lifting (high weight low reps) one week, then size (average weight average reps) the next. Maybe even throw in a third week for definition (low weight lots of reps). Then rotate between the three. I think the creatine, whey protien, L-Glutamine, and possibly Tribulus Terrestrius will replenish my body with what it needs accompanied with a good diet and 8-10hrs of sleep per night.

On top of this training, I will be doing football conditioning Monday through Friday, which should consist of running days and lifting days. I could skip the lifting days and go to the gym instead, then go to the running days and skip jogging on those days.

With weekends almost completely free, I should be able to rest enough to stay healthy.

[Mind]

5 days training MAX. If you do more than that you are asking for injuries or no growth. You body needs to rest to build muscle. If you train every day you are wasting opportunity for muscle growth. I know it is hard, but be sure to take 2 days off per week.

I use Redline. It is the strongest pre-mix stimulant drink I have tried. It works awesome. Just half a can gets me through a rigorous workout. If you are going to use it, start slow, DO NOT drink a whole can.

At 16, I think you do not need anything to boost your testosterone. It will probably only cause problems. Maybe even anger problems/explosiveness.

8 hours sleep a night. 8 hours sleep a night. 8 HOURS SLEEP A NIGHT.

Also, don't expect to get ripped like Arnold. (a little ripped, yes) At 16 your body is devoting a lot of energy to growth, hormones, and making sperm (I know, sounds funny, but true). Most "ripped" body builders do not get that way until they at least reach their mid 20s, more so the late 20s and early 30s. That is when the raging hormones quiet down enough that the body builders can focus more energy into muscle building. If you try to get majorly ripped at your age you will probably just get majorly screwed up.

[Shepard]

At 16, I don't think he's going to find anything to boost his testosterone, short of testosterone supplementation.

[athanatos]

Alright. My testosterone is probably high enough as it is, so I'll cancel the Tribulus.

I think 5 days a week is what I'll do, but do I have to devote the weekend COMPLETELY to rest? I can't do a few push ups + sit ups? Maybe a little jog?

Right now I'm down to:

Whey Protein
Creatine + Nitric Oxide
L-Glutamine
Multi-Vitamin
Fish Oil Supplement

That's more than enough I think.

Btw, I read somewhere you should take 1g of protein per pound you weigh per day. I weigh 200 pounds, constantly going above and below. So should I be taking in about 200 grams of protein per day?

[Mind]

When I was younger, my preferred schedule was 3 days on, 1 off, 2 days on, 1 off. I didn't take 2 off in a row or workout more than 3 days in a row. But hey, 5 on, 2 off will probably work just fine. If you do like to take the weekends of, a little jog is probably fine.

[Shepard]

Break down what you'll be doing each day, and it will give a better idea. Aerobics can be good for recovery. Very light weight workouts might have their place for recovery, as well.

I would get atleast 1 gram per pound of lean mass, and preferably a little more. So, say 200 lbs. @ 20% BF would be 160 lbs of LBM. 160 g/day would be my minimum, 200-240 would probably be a better range with intense training.

[paleo]

For what it's worth (which probably isn't much) IMHO the protein powder probably isn't necessary. There is ALOT of hype in the bodybuilding and strength training community about more protein, more protein, more protein. Studies are inconclusive at best. The reality is that you probably don't need much more protein that you can't get with food.

I tend to agree with most other suggestions though that it's about DIET and TRAINING (intensity) and REST and you will get strong and grow. Save the money from supplements for FOOD and primarily good MEAT!

And DO NOT overtrain!!! It's very easy to happen.

[Shepard]

For what it's worth (which probably isn't much) IMHO the protein powder probably isn't necessary.

I agree that protein powder isn't necessary for your goals. It's useful to have, especially if you lose your appetite or can't stomach food post-training (easy to happen if intensity is high). Or, if you don't have time to cook anything, feel better with a light breakfast, etc.

[athanatos]

I actually have no idea what I'll be doing daily, I've yet to fully make a plan. I usually just do whatever I haven't done for a while, because recently I haven't been working out as often as I'd like to. School gets in the way.

Monday, before I leave my house I'll do all of the usual stretches, then I'll start jogging to the gym. Maybe some sprints or just normal running when I get to areas that are suitable. When I get to the gym, I'll be warmed up from the jog, and I'll start with bench press. 3 sets of 5 reps with 210 pounds should be good for strength. Then I'd go on to curls. I'd start with a bar, 90 pounds 3 sets of 5. After that, I'd go to one hand curls. 3 sets of 10 with a 45 with each arm. Then that tricep press exersize, I'm not exactly sure what it's called. You put a dumbell behind your head and push it upwards. I'll do three sets of 6 with a 60-70 pound dumbell. Then forearms. The typical forearm raises with a 100 pound bar 3 sets of 10. After that I'd use one of those things you squeeze with one hand, with maybe 100-150 pounds of resistance until I couldn't do it anymore. Following a short rest and a drink, I'd hit the pec deck, push maybe 130 pounds, 3 sets of 10. Then I'd work on dumbell press. I've never tried it before, so I've got no idea what I can do. I'll experiment with it on one of my test runs at my local gym, while checking up on what they've got. Then I'll do flys and other pec workouts using dumbells. That should probably end my Monday workout, depending on the time of day or how exhausted I was, I'd either get picked up or jog home. Before sleep I'll do 100 push ups, probably breaking it into sets of 50 or even 25. Then 200 sit ups, broken into sets of 50 or 100. Once I'm able to do the full 100 push ups and 200 sit ups, I'll start adding more.

Tuesday
Stretches, jogging to the gym, etc..
I'm going to devote Tuesdays to legs. I've barely worked my legs, ever. I'll be doing squats, and hitting every leg machine in the gym. I'll try to learn all of the leg workouts I can get, to get my lower body stronger. Probably deadlifting, because I think that fits in here. Getting picked up that day, because my legs will be done. I might walk home if I can, if I need to. End the day with push ups and sit ups.

Wednesdays
Stretch, jog.
Wednesdays will be for abs and back. My friend is an expert with abs, he's 14 with an admirable 6 pack, and he'll be teaching me his ab workouts. I've also got a good amount of back workouts planned out, lower and upper, which I haven't tried recently. I'll probably learn more. End the day with push ups and sit ups, hit the treadmill if I can't jog home.

Thursday
Strech, jog.
Shoulders. Lateral raises, frontal raises, all types of raises. Military press. Pull downs.
Jog home or treadmill, end with push ups and sit ups.

Friday
Stretch, jog.
I'll work on my neck and traps. Then size benching, three sets of 10-15 with 180-190 pounds.
Jog home or treadmill, end with push ups and sit ups.

Saturday
Short jog, push ups, sit ups.

Sunday
Short jog, push ups, sit ups.

I also plan to do pull ups and chin ups. Could I possibly add them to my push up and sit up routine?
Then, every week day, if the gym I go to has punching bags, I'll be using them, along with doing air punches with 20-30 pounds in each hand.

[the_eternal]

If you're training for sport, I'd recommend just concentrating on the sport specific training that you need, don't worry about bulking or toning, mostly go for strength (having said this you may need the extra size and tone, I don't know) the best advice I can give you is to talk to a trainer and ask them to develop sport specific programs for you, since you haven't got a lot of time to train (2 months isn't a lot when it comes to massive strength training) go for as much development as possible then maintain it during the season then go back to the program you plan to use this time.

Also I spoke to my doctor about thermogenic fat burners and he was less then impressed and said while they probably wouldn't do any harm, that he hadn't seen any proof of their efficiacy.

If you have any more questions PM me, I'm currently training for rugby myself, so I might have some ideas you might find of interest.

Either way, good luck with your training

Edited by the_eternal, 12 June 2006 - 02:27 AM.

[U_N]

athanatos,

You've been given great advice and you are making changes to your regimen that I would definitely agree with.

Jay Robb's Whey Protein + Amino Acids Go with it. It surely won't hurt you.

For what it's worth (which probably isn't much) IMHO the protein powder probably isn't necessary.  There is ALOT of hype in the bodybuilding and strength training community about more protein, more protein, more protein.  Studies are inconclusive at best.  The reality is that you probably don't need much more protein that you can't get with food.

Yes, there is a lot of hype... but, there is also personal experience. When I did Spec Ops training a couple years back, I took minimal supplements as I would surely not be able to keep up an intense regimen while deployed. I took a one cap/day type multi vit and two or three caps of creatine. The training was rigorous and nonstop. It beat the crap out of my body... a little too much in fact. My instructor suggested the issue may be protien. It surely was. I may not have needed much, but I needed more to keep my body going. I ended up drinking one Atkins Shake (as a matter of convenience) a day to get what I needed. Within a few days of use, I noticed my body felt like it was able to keep up with the beating I gave it and my physical condition improved. Whether YOU need it or not really depends on what your normal diet consists of. I only supplement protein a couple time a week right now as my diet usually gives me what I need.

No-Xplode Creatine + Nitric Oxide powder drink mix form You WILL see results from this. Just be sure to push yourself longer than you would if you weren't on such a supplement. With the work out you described, you will be fine.

Hot-Rox Thermogenic Weight Loss Pill Cut this. Your work out regime and youth will be all you need.

L-Glutamine Respectable choice.

Tribulus A no-brainer as you've already realized.

Universal Animal M-Stak I wouldn't use a product like this, but I really have no arguement against it. I don't see it as necessary.

Get plenty of sleep and rest minimum 2 days out of 7. This doesn't mean you have to sit on your ass; just don't do anything intense and relax and let your body take care of itself.

Good luck. The results may be slow at first, just stick to it.

[Shepard]

In short, I think your training program is severely lacking. I can make suggestions or give you places to go and do some more reading and decide for yourself. I think you'll find training each muscle 1x a week seperately, with chest & situps everyday, to be a large waste of your time and energy. You might make some gains, but they won't be optimal.

[tedsez]

"right now I'm aiming to lose about 30-40 pounds of fat in just 2 - 2.5 months."


If you're 30-40 pounds overweight at age 16, you should be less concerned about quick weight loss and more interested in developing healthful eating habits that will serve you well for the rest of your life.

It's very common for people in your situation to gain back all the excess weight and more -- if not now, then in 10 or 20 years when your activity levels and natural metabolism begin to slow.

Cutting out junk food and eating reasonable portions of lean protein, whole grains and fresh fruits and vegetables (with the possible addition of a protein/carb drink after workouts) will do a lot more for you in the long run than any thermogenic supplement.

[U_N]

I think you'll find training each muscle 1x a week seperately, with chest & situps everyday, to be a large waste of your time and energy.

No doubt. 1x/week is surely not enough.

Look at it this way: If you did arm curls with dumbells once a week and nothing else, would you really see a difference? Probably minimal if any.

Taking a break from a part of the body for a day to work another part of the body a little more is fine, but neglecting that part for a week is no good.

[the big b]

I haven't had time to read the whole thread, and I did see that your dropping Tribulus. This is a very good thing. There are a very large amount of people I can think of that I know who totally messed up their testosterone production because they took when they didn't need it, and it's haunting them well into their 40's and beyond.

[athanatos]

I've never had a workout plan before, I just know most of my friends recommend not working out the same muscles more than once a week. I think I could do it, I'm willing to spend 6 hours at the gym a day.

Thank you all for your advice. I do plan to start eating much better. I'm glad I've been talked out of taking Tribulus, because I don't need a long-lasting problem like the one brought up by the big b.

Shepard, I would very much appreciate it if you could recommend a few sources that may help me put together a better workout plan. I've really just been doing this myself with a bit of help from my friends, so I've got no professional expertise. How many times a week should I work out each muscles group? Two or three? I'd be willing to go even further than that if it were possible.

[Shepard]

A lot of people think 1x/week training is optimal because that is what is cited in many fitness magazines as what the pros do. This fails to take into account the large amount of steroids professional bodybuilders use. Look for articles/books written by Alwyn Cosgrove, Ross Enamait, and you can find some more good info on other message boards: Body Recomposition, Power and Bulk, Mind & Muscle (I've lost my love for this message board, but there is good info to be had by searching older posts.)

If you want a 5-6 day/week training program, I'm currently using one cited by Enamait in his Never Gymless book. This isn't geared toward maximum mass, but if followed for a while, I've a feeling it will definately make you into one hard mofo. I've been training hard (or so I thought) for quite a while, and it's kicking my ass.

[athanatos]

I think if I do it 6 days/week, I'll be able to get full body, uper, mid, and lower with strength then size training, and have a good amount of time to rest each. That will be working out everything twice a week. Is that enough?

[Shepard]

It's pretty pointless to train specifically for strength/size unless you've got a good bit of training under your belt, IMO. They'll both come for quite a while. Some people think it's pointless to prioritize at any point, and that the training is the same for either one.

I think you'll be better served by doing 2-3 full body workouts/week (1 workout every third day) and vary between sprint work & aerobics on your "off days". You really don't need to do too many exercises, just hit the big ones (compounds) hard and be sure not to overdo it or injure yourself. I'm not a fan of training to failure, and I would certainly avoid it if training this frequently. You'd still do well to take 1-2 days off per week, depending on your workout schedule...at most toss in some very light aerobics on those days (walking at medium incline, or something similar).

[skuldugary]

Boy, lots of good suggestions here. what a great group :-)

a couple of things here. if you are really serious about this, and you want to do it right, do some reading. my recomendations:

Total Training for Young Champions
by Tudor Bomba
http://www.amazon.co...glance&n=283155

this is the guy who wrote the book on periodization (literally) and this particular book is aimed for people just like you: young athletes

Science of Sports Training
Tom Kurtz
http://www.stadion.com/science.html

this is really meaty reading, but has excellent information on how to structure workouts to maximize potential. You have to read every sentence to really get it.

As i think someone else said here, if you are just starting out, stick with the basics: total body workout 3x week, off days running and aerobics (3x week?) and one day rest would be PLENTY. Until you build up a core, doing isolation exercises or body parts is counterproductive. 1x per week per body part is for experts only, meaning people who have been training a LONG time (i do it, but i've been training 25 years. For the first 5 years I did every body part 3x week. Then for 10 years i did every body part 2x week..) If you do it right, you'll blow past your friends who are doing once a week per bodypart workouts.

As i think a number of people have said here, most of the supplements you can take are either just hype, or will only work if you are already a serious athlete and are looking for that final extra edge.

Given that, the most important supplement you can take is a post recovery drink, which you take right after your workout, and the second most important one is a pre-workout drink. I like Ultragen and EFS, both from http://www.firstendurance.com/. I add creatine to the ultragen. If I were you, and especially if I were trying to lose some weight, I would ONLY take these, as unless you are fanatical about your diet, most other supplements will tend to pack on pounds, not loose them.

Speaking of diet, you should try to only eat the good stuff, look at this board for recommendations, or almost any of the mainstream diets (in moderation). Mostly veggies, then fruit and meat, fewer carbos. minimize the junk food. swear off fast food..

just my $0.02..

[Shepard]

Zinc deficiencies are not that uncommon.

Especially for 16 year-old males.