45 replies to this topic

[Live Forever]

I have been reading about this for a couple of weeks now, but here is the article that I ran across today on it. Evidently, adults gradually lose their ability to hear high pitched tones as they grow older. This tone is a takeoff of something called the "Mosquito" which was meant to be sold to business owners to keep kids away from their shops, but would not affect older people (because they could not hear it). The tone is now being used by kids for their cell phone ring tones so that adults (in class or wherever else) can not hear it ringing. The tone is in the 17 kHz range.

Here is the direct link to the tone discussed in the article. How many of you can hear it? I am 25 and can still hear it (it is quite annoying though, I don't think I would want it as a ring tone), but I am still (apparently) on the cusp of people that are supposed to be able to.

Here is a generalized chart of what people can hear at certain ages:

Edited by Live Forever, 12 June 2006 - 09:12 PM.

[maestro949]

I can't hear it. 35.

[kenj]

LF you do entertain in an informative way. [thumb]

[kenj]

Actually you do so much more than that, - you inform in an entertaining way. [lol]

[Live Forever]

haha, thanks kenj. Could you hear it?

maestro, its probably all that rock and roll you listen to. [wis]

[kenj]

Yes, - this was not a pleasant experience even with headphones on the table.

The tone is now being used by kids for their cell phone ring tones so that adults (in class or wherever else) can not hear it ringing.

That is somewhat hilarious.

[Live Forever]

Here is one I made at 18 kHz (1 kHz higher than the previous). It is out of my hearing range cause I couldn't hear it. For anyone that can hear the first one, can you hear this one?

Edited by Live Forever, 12 June 2006 - 09:13 PM.

[kenj]

Yes. You can hear a "scratch" at the start though?
I wouldn't think I would be able to hear this considering working with kids with great vocal chords [lol] every day.

[maestro949]

maestro, its probably all that rock and roll you listen to.  [wis]

What?

[scottl]

Khz, 17Khz. You'd need a pipe organ to make an 18 hz tone and you'd feel it.

Oh and being able to hear the tone supposes your speakers capable of reproducing that tone.

[mind_offset]

17 kHz: hearing it loud and clear.
18 kHz: nope, I wonder how many forumers could hear this tonality ?

Age: 33.

[Live Forever]

What?

Why you couldn't hear the tone, cause of all the loud music. It was a joke. (evidently not that funny)

Khz, 17Khz.  You'd need a pipe organ to make an 18 hz tone and you'd feel it.

Oh and being able to hear the tone supposes your speakers capable of reproducing that tone.

Nice catch scott, I was "thinking" kHz, I don't know why I wrote Hz instead, perhaps I need more sleep. Also, you are right about the speakers, but I think most speakers nowadays can reproduce that, unless they are messed up, or really cheap ones. That was actually one of the things about using it as a ring tone that I had a question about. I was wondering if the speaker on a cell phone would be capable of reproducing it. I suppose some are (according the article) since it has been tried.


I would really like to see if there is anyone in their 40s or 50s that could hear either one. I wonder if it has much to do with how much "damage" you have accumulated throughout your life (rock concerts and the like). If so, zoolander probably has the hearing of a 50 year old. (being in a rock band)

[ag24]

> It was a joke

So was "What?", I suspect...

I'm 43 and I could hear the 17 easily and the 18 hardly if at all

[maestro949]

What?

[mind_offset]

Aubrey ? Nice to read you in this thread, one of your lecture of SENS on Google video impressed me, and was entertaining too... [thumb]

So, it sounds like 18 kHz is hardly noticeable.

Here is a 17.5 kHz .wav file, faintly hearable for me on a 2.1 THX speakers set,

17.5 kHZ .wav file

[kevin]

Interesting.. I'm 42.. no problem hearing either...

[Live Forever]

What?

Sorry, I am a little slow sometimes. [tung]

I'm 43 and I could hear the 17 easily and the 18 hardly if at all

It is because of that ear drum rejuvenation therapy you have developed that reverts your ear drum to a younger state. [sfty]

Here is a 17.5 kHz .wav file, faintly hearable for me on a 2.1 THX speakers set,

17.5 kHZ .wav file

I could hear the 17, but not the 18, this one is faintly audible to me.

[jaydfox]

I can hear all of them, and they are all very annoying.

I'm not sure what my maximum is now. In high school I sometimes could make out about 20 or 20.5 kHz, but just now the 18 kHz wasn't quite as audible as the 17 and 17.5, so I'm gonna guess that I peak closer to 19 kHz by now.

[Live Forever]

What is the maximum that you can hear? Here is a very insightful blog post (with more info on the original story) where you can keep increasing it to see where your cutoff is:
http://www.ochenk.com/entry.php?id=63

Although the 17 kHz was a bit harder to hear than the one above (in the original post of this thread), I could still make it out, but still couldn't hear the 18 kHz one, so I assume the cutoff is still the same as I thought it was.

(Note: You might hear something in all of them, but most of what you hear might be the background noise and harmonics that he describes, not the peak. Working your way up, when you can't hear it any more, you have gone too far. Also, these are probably getting up to the top of what sound cards and speakers can handle, so that may cause trouble for some people as well.)

[stephen]

Well... it's official. I'm 23 years old and have the hearing of a 40 year old!

I can hear the 17 kHz clearly, but not the 17.5 or 18.0. Tried the blog site and different speakers... Consistent results! I've always considered myself to have good hearing, too...

Bummer.

[jaydfox]

Interesting, on the blog, I can hear 18 kHz just fine, and I can't hear 19 kHz at all. I'd like to see some sound files that step up in 100-200 Hz intervals, so I can find the exact cutoff. The difference between 18 and 19 kHz was so stark, it should be easy to narrow it down to a much smaller range.

[Kalepha]

Jay, this tone generator software, a free download, seems it could serve that purpose. Like Live Forever suggests, though, speakers/soundcard may affect how well real high or real low frequencies are generated. I can hear up to 22 kHz, which probably can't be right, until higher frequencies seem variably lower in pitch. And I also wonder what role amplitude might play in all this.

[jaydfox]

Neat, thanks Nate.

After listening in 100 Hz intervals, I figured out I could barely make out 19,100 Hz. After figuring this out, I went back and checked the blog sounds. The 19 kHz sound from the blog was actually audible, but I had to hold my head at a certain angle. I assume this was for amplitude reasons (such high frequencies are very directional, and don't bend around corners well, so I probably had to aim the sound right down my ear canal).

[jrhall]

Subjects Age: 45

Hmmm lets see ..
18K - No
17K - No
16K - Ummm ... No
15K - NO!
14K - Think I hear some faint whining in the distance ... oh no wait, thats the constant ringing in my ears I always hear. [huh]
13K - OK, I can hear that.

And there you have it, scientific proof that 30 years of rock & roll will kill your hearing.
[thumb]


Jeff

[jaydfox]

Hmm, if we're going to be informative here:

I'm ~28.7, and my threshold (being able to tell that I can hear something, if loud enough) is about 19.1 kHz.

[jaydfox]

I wonder how much I've lost. When I was ~16.8, I could hear at least 20 kHz, and I know I couldn't hear 21 kHz. I think I tested 20.5 kHz and was able to hear it, but I don't recall the details at this time. Anyway, let's say I've lost about ~1.5 kHz in ~12 years.

[DJS]

I seriously think I've given myself a headache. I can hear the 17.5

[Live Forever]

I still want to see what zoolander can hear, being in a rock band and all, I am sure he constantly listens to loud music

[Grail]

I can hear the 17 kHz clearly, but not the 17.5 or 18.0. 
Bummer.

Me too...although I only tried one set of speakers. The first one hurt my ears a little, and the second just felt like pressure on the eardum.

[mind_offset]

Magnesium is an ubiquitous mineral for various ailments, [thumb]

Magnesium treatment for sudden hearing loss

Nageris BI, Ulanovski D, Attias J.

Department of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery, Rabin Medical Center, Petah Tikva, Israel.

Magnesium treatment has been repeatedly shown to reduce the incidence of both temporary and permanent noise-induced hearing loss. We hypothesized that it might also improve the permanent threshold shift in patients with acute-onset hearing loss. In a prospective, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial, 28 patients with idiopathic sudden sensorineural hearing loss were treated with either steroids and oral magnesium (study group) or steroids and a placebo (control group). Compared to the controls, the magnesium-treated group had a significantly higher proportion of patients with improved hearing (>10 dB hearing level) across all frequencies tested, and a significantly greater mean improvement in all frequencies. Analysis of the individual data confirmed that more patients treated with magnesium experienced hearing improvement, and at a larger magnitude, than control subjects. Magnesium is a relatively safe and convenient adjunct to steroid treatment for enhancing the improvement in hearing, especially in the low-tone range, in patients with sudden sensorineural hearing loss.

Pubmed Source


Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for Supplemental Magnesium
Age Group UL (mg/day)
Infants 0-12 months Not possible to establish*
Children 1-3 years 65
Children 4-8 years 110
Children 9-13 years 350
Adolescents 14-18 years 350
Adults 19 years and older 350

Linus Pauling Institute on Magnesium