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Which Vaccine do we Like?

coronavirus

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#61 Dorian Grey

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Posted 13 March 2021 - 02:31 AM

<tinfoilorgonehat>The question will be if this is a mistake or intentional depopulation agenda </tinfoilorgonehat>

 

My humble opinion...  A dumb mistake.  Fooling around with gain of function coronavirus which resulted in a lab leak.  

 

Problem is, the medical (mad) scientists are running around like keystone cops trying to contain this, and there is a whole lot of money to be made.  

 

Politicians are too trusting in "the science" and are saying GO-GO-GO to anything the mad scientists are coming up with.  

 

Will we get lucky and put this fire out?  Time will tell, but I thank God every day for the years of my life I enjoyed "BC" (Before COVID).  


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#62 Gal220

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Posted 13 March 2021 - 05:51 AM

I wouldn't sweat this too much.  I'm actually not dead-set against the Pfizer jab myself. 

 

I worry about the repeated jabs every year, and the extra jabs for variants.  I think it will start to accumulate.


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#63 smithx

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Posted 13 March 2021 - 10:01 PM

Plasmids are circular and would be recognized and destroyed quickly. The link you posted claimed that linearized DNA was somehow getting into the vaccines.

 

 

The mRNA manufacturing process appears to involve DNA plasmids, which produce the mRNA.  

 


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#64 Dorian Grey

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Posted 13 March 2021 - 10:16 PM

Plasmids are circular and would be recognized and destroyed quickly. The link you posted claimed that linearized DNA was somehow getting into the vaccines.

 

Looks like linerarization is part of the process: https://bio-protocol.org/prep217

 

mRNA preparation

 

Plasmid Linearization 

  1. Linearize 5ug of plasmid DNA with a restriction enzyme downstream of the insert that needs to be transcribed 



#65 joelcairo

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Posted 14 March 2021 - 10:25 PM

Just got jabbed with the AstraZeneca vaccine -- the only one I was eligible for at this time. In researching it, I found studies showing that it is effective against the British variant, and at least somewhat effective against the South African and Brazilian variants. No doubt this data is very preliminary.

 

I'm not an expert in mRNA vaccines, but I'm hoping a traditional style vaccine will provide protection against a broader range of antigens. Eric Feigl-Ding posted studies today suggesting that the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines produce a much much lower immune reaction against the South African and Brazilian virii.

 

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing

 


Edited by joelcairo, 14 March 2021 - 10:26 PM.

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#66 smithx

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Posted 15 March 2021 - 05:36 AM

 Eric Feigl-Ding posted studies today suggesting that the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines produce a much much lower immune reaction against the South African and Brazilian virii.

 

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing

 

Very annoying that there seems to be no link to the actual paper in that entire twitter thread. Here it is:

https://www.cell.com...8674(21)00298-1


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#67 aribadabar

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Posted 15 March 2021 - 03:44 PM

 

Please don't give tribune to this fear mongerer. What a clown!


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#68 joelcairo

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Posted 16 March 2021 - 04:15 PM

Well he's certainly not the guy you want to follow if you want to feel good about everything. Today Feigl-Ding is reporting on multiple strains of COVID-19 which have mutated in such a way that standard PCR tests give a negative result.



#69 joelcairo

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 04:47 AM

Eric Feigl-Ding posted studies today suggesting that the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines produce a much much lower immune reaction against the South African and Brazilian virii.

 

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing

 

I should clarify this. The vaccines produce much lower ANTIBODY protection against the SA and Brazilian variants. Antibodies are the proteins that bind to targets on the viruses and inactivate them.

 

However the vaccines also produce T CELL protection targeted to the virus, and other studies show the T cells seem to produce an equally strong response against all the variants. I think the upshot is that you can still get infected but the course of the illness should be milder/shorter.


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#70 motorcitykid

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Posted 21 March 2021 - 12:05 AM

Thanks. A quick search of those links for '150' or 'copies' yields nil but I will read further.

From my perspective the DNA altering talk is a distraction. The issue, for me, with this vaccine is
that tissue penetration (Tropisim) studies seem to be missing which makes the results of vaccine ripe for
auto immune effects (if the vaccine, through its liposome, can penetrate tissue that the virus, initially, would not)

 

Excellent Zorba. I haven't had any luck pulling up info on tropism and the RNA Covid vaccines. 

Anything new on this topic from your end?
 


Edited by motorcitykid, 21 March 2021 - 12:05 AM.


#71 Dorian Grey

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Posted 21 March 2021 - 10:34 PM

Wanted to post a deep dive into the J&J / Janssen & Novavax vaccines.  Whiteboard doctor does a great job with these:  

 

 

 

Looks like J&J/Janssen uses no adjuvant.  Dorian like!  

 

Novavax uses entire spike protein chain, & not just snippets like most other jabs.  Probably a plus against variants, where some proteins have changed, though some original remain?  


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#72 Gal220

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 02:07 AM

One site claiming the sputnik immunity is likely for 2 years, while the mRNA is only 4-5 months.  Maybe russian propaganda, but would be nice to know.


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#73 joelcairo

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 04:23 AM

One site claiming the sputnik immunity is likely for 2 years, while the mRNA is only 4-5 months.  Maybe russian propaganda, but would be nice to know.

 

That statement is coming directly from the Russian group who developed the vaccine, so it doesn't have too much credibility. The vaccine may work OK, but they were behind some other vaccines in beginning their trials so I don't see how they can be in a position to talk about its effectiveness 2 years from now.


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#74 Gal220

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 12:11 PM

That statement is coming directly from the Russian group who developed the vaccine, so it doesn't have too much credibility. The vaccine may work OK, but they were behind some other vaccines in beginning their trials so I don't see how they can be in a position to talk about its effectiveness 2 years from now.

Moderna trial says at least 4 months, this was  back in december.  So we should know if through 6, almost 7 months if they check.

 

They are claiming at least a year


Edited by Gal220, 22 March 2021 - 12:12 PM.


#75 Gal220

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 04:05 AM

Submitted for your approval...  A very deep dive into mRNA vaccines with a German Cellular Biologist.  

http://enformtk.u-ai...chmidt_krueger/

 

thebmj.com asked the manufacturers about this very question, very disappointing answer.

Lipid nanoparticles—where do they go and what do they do?

 

JW Ulm, a gene therapy specialist who has published on tissue targeting of therapeutic vectors,13 raised concerns about the biodistribution of LNPs: “At present, relatively little has been reported on the tissue localisation of the LNPs used to encase the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein-encoding messenger RNA, and it is vital to have more specific information on precisely where the liposomal nanoparticles are going after injection
Regulators and manufacturers contacted by The BMJ for this article did not wish to address any of the questions raised by Ulm’s rapid response

But, they want us to take the shot ! 

 

 

Webpage also brings up the lack of transparency as to what constitute effective % of intact mRNA

Pfizer also declined to comment on what percentage mRNA integrity it is aiming for, nor would it address questions about the cause of the unexpectedly low percentage mRNA integrity in certain batches, leaving open the question of whether it could happen again
The BMJ asked Pfizer, Moderna, and CureVac, as well as several regulators, what percentage mRNA integrity they consider acceptable for vaccines against covid-19. None offered any specifics.

Doesnt inspire confidence.


Edited by Gal220, 23 March 2021 - 04:13 AM.

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#76 Gal220

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:02 PM

Sputnik touting a Mexico report.  Hopefully more data like this will be published soon

 

https://twitter.com/...024536836935687

 

 


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#77 Dorian Grey

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 04:56 AM

Got my newsletter from the Highwire (anti-vax site) today, where they were bragging about forcing New York state dept of health to change their claims about the vaccines having no serious side effects reported.  

 

ICAN achieved another victory in its ongoing campaign to ensure the government does not spread false information about vaccines.  We previously reported how the NYS Dep’t of Health was forced to remove a number of its false COVID-19 ads.  It appears they did not learn from that mistake.  In another more recent ad they falsely claimed that: “No serious side effects related to the vaccines have been reported.”  ICAN, through its attorneys, wrote to Governor Cuomo and the NYS Dep’t of Health demanding they remove this false claim and related ad.  They quickly complied.

 

What I found interesting, was the difference in the reported side effects between the Pfizer & Moderna jabs:

 

"In the vaccines’ clinical trials, there were serious adverse events that the trial investigators found were not only be “linked” to the vaccines, but in fact related to the COVID-19 vaccines. For Pfizer’s vaccine, these include shoulder injury, ventricular arrhythmia, and lymphadenopathy.  For Moderna’s vaccine, these include intractable nausea and vomiting, facial swelling, rheumatoid arthritis, Dyspnea with exertion, peripheral edema, Autonomic dysfunction, and B-cell lymphocytic lymphoma."

 

Whoa!  Moderna's jab certainly looks a lot more spooky than Pfizer's shot.  I always thought the effectiveness & side effects were quite similar, but if the above is true, the Pfizer jab would appear to be the better choice.  I know these side effects are rare, but "intractable nausea and vomiting" is not my cup of tea!  Don't know if I care for rheumatoid arthritis, dyspenea, autonomic dysfunction or lymphomas either.  

 

You can have my Moderna jab.  I'm holding out for Pfizer (or perhaps better yet J&J).


Edited by Dorian Grey, 24 March 2021 - 05:03 AM.

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#78 ta5

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 11:07 PM

I'm eligible get the vaccine and now I'm trying to decide which one.

 

Is the consensus that J&J is safest? I'm more concerned about safety than effectiveness. 


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#79 Dorian Grey

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Posted 25 March 2021 - 12:18 AM

I'm eligible get the vaccine and now I'm trying to decide which one.

 

Is the consensus that J&J is safest? I'm more concerned about safety than effectiveness. 

 

I've been wrestling with this issue myself.  J&J is the new kid on the block, & therefore not as much experience as the Pfizer/Moderna jabs, where many millions have already tried these out for us, with apparently good short term safety.  

 

What I find interesting is, the whole world outside of the USA has gone with more traditional non-mRNA vaccines.  If I recall correctly, Moderna bragged they could "whip something up quickly", which caught the attention of the Operation Warp Speed team; this even though Moderna had never brought much in the way of vaccines or drugs to the table.  Pfizer, not to be outdone by puny little Moderna, jumped on the bandwagon, simply because they could afford to, & didn't want to get caught with their pants down.   

 

The whole Warp Speed mRNA program stinks (to me), though I have to admit, at this point it looks like they are either very skilled or very lucky.  I'm 64 years old...  I like old drugs, & old vaccines.  I'm hanging tough for J&J, though I really don't have a good argument why.  


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#80 Gal220

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Posted 25 March 2021 - 04:49 AM

  The whole Warp Speed mRNA program stinks (to me), though I have to admit, at this point it looks like they are either very skilled or very lucky.  I'm 64 years old...  I like old drugs, & old vaccines.  I'm hanging tough for J&J, though I really don't have a good argument why.  

 

I would at least like them to answer the lipid nano particle concerns, telling thebmj publication no comment isnt acceptable to me.

 

If I wasnt sold on h202 I would lean towards the Sputnik V, I think it will be widely available soon, especially with the distrust for Russia.

https://twitter.com/...024536836935687


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#81 Gal220

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Posted 02 April 2021 - 06:45 AM

 You can have my Moderna jab.  I'm holding out for Pfizer (or perhaps better yet J&J).

 

Seems like Moderna is the safer choice of the mRNA

 

Canada data showing Moderna shot has fewer serious side effects

 

From the CDC on page 13


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#82 smithx

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 06:22 PM

Some information I didn't know about. One reason different vaccines have different levels of protection against the new variants is the spike proteins they are based on:

 

 

Here, the WT, PP, and DCS groups showed similar levels of neutralization, while the DCS-PP group of animals had higher serum neutralization titers
https://mbio.asm.org...648-20.full.pdf

 

 

 

WT- AZ, Sputnik.

PP - Pfizer, Moderna.

DCS-PP - J&J

 


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#83 Dorian Grey

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 12:56 AM

Some information I didn't know about. One reason different vaccines have different levels of protection against the new variants is the spike proteins they are based on:

 

 

WT- AZ, Sputnik.

PP - Pfizer, Moderna.

DCS-PP - J&J

 

Thanks for this smithx.  After reading the link, I signed up for J&J April 10th at noon.  


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#84 smithx

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 04:55 AM

Thanks for this smithx.  After reading the link, I signed up for J&J April 10th at noon.  

 

Had I seen this earlier, I probably would have gotten J&J too, rather than Pfizer.


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#85 lancebr

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 05:34 AM

I saw this post from an individual on another website talking about the J&J vaccine compared to the other vaccines.....is there any truth to it:

 

 

"Actually it is more of a gene therapy than the mRNA shots made by Moderna and Pfizer. It uses a hollowed out adenovirus containing the DNA for the spike protein of a SARS-2-Coronavirus. The adenovirus enters the nucleus of a cell in your body and reprograms the DNA of that cell to create spike protein RNA. That RNA leaves the nucleus and uses ribosomes in the cytoplasm to build Sars-2 spike proteins. I couldn't find proof, but I am fairly certain the double stranded DNA injected into the adenovirus is synthetically produced. Regardless, if that cell is not killed quickly, it will continue to create foreign spike proteins. At least with the mRNA shots, the mRNA degrades over time until it can't make spike proteins anymore. The J&J shot is the worst of them all in my opinion. "

 

...........

 

"Unlike the Moderna and Pfizer mRNA which should get dissolved quickly by enzymes in the cytoplasm after making a few batches of spike protein.
This J&J shot gets into the DNA in the nucleus and if you immune system is weak the cells producing the spike proteins could live for quite some time as spike protein factories.Too bad that the isolated spike protein it is creating has prion like domains and that spike protein has been found to transport itself across the blood brain barrier."

 

.............

 

Also it is being reported that J&J vaccine only provides about 66% protection:

 

"Moderna and Pfizer two-dose vaccines are 94% and 95% effective, respectively, at preventing new coronavirus infections, according to the

Centers for Disease Control. And while it’s more convenient, the single shot Johnson & Johnson vaccine only provides 66% protection."


Edited by lancebr, 11 April 2021 - 05:41 AM.


#86 Dorian Grey

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 06:35 AM

Everything you ever wanted to know about the J&J/Jansson jab here: 

It's a long video, so skip to the 8 minute mark if you've got time.  Jump to minute 13, 14:30 if you get bored.  He specifically addresses the DNA issue at 15:30.  The DNA that enters the nucleus of the cells is circular, not linear (like the contamination in the mRNA Pfizer/Moderna vaccines), so it can't combine with DNA in your own cells.  

 

Regarding the effectiveness, the whiteboard doc points out, unlike the mRNA jabs, the J&J vaccines were trialed after variants occurred, however effectiveness against hospitalization & death were similar to both the mRNA jabs, despite mild symptomatic infections occurring more often with the J&J jab.  .  

 

I actually like the idea of a weaker vaccine, as with the flu shot, boosters will be needed to protect against variants.  You want vaccines for the old versions to fade, and vaccines for the new variants to be effective.  A mild infection can also stimulate cross-over T-Cell immune activity, which may give lasting protection against a large variety of coronavirus variants.  

 

More on the "negative effectiveness" of flu shots for similar strains here: 

 

https://www.cidrap.u...-year-flu-shots

 

"This phenomenon of vaccination against influenza in the prior year being significantly associated with a modestly lower level of clinical protection in the current year has now been reported from multiple influenza seasons, using both the prospective household design as well as the test-negative case-control design"

 

Persistent immunity to obsolescent strains can be counterproductive! 

 

No spooky mRNA (manufactured with liniarized DNA, which contaminates & can combine with nuclear DNA), no inflammatory lipid nano-particles, no adjuvants...  Dorian Like!  Got my J&J jab on Tuesday...  One & done, & no side effects whatsoever.  

 

See my post: "Submitted for your approval" on the previous page for more on the down-side of mRNA vaccines.  

 

The possibility of ADE also reduced with a weaker vaccine?  

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/22536382/

 

Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS virus

 

"These SARS-CoV vaccines all induced antibody and protection against infection with SARS-CoV. However, challenge of mice given any of the vaccines led to occurrence of Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components was induced. Caution in proceeding to application of a SARS-CoV vaccine in humans is indicated."


Edited by Dorian Grey, 11 April 2021 - 07:31 AM.


#87 lancebr

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 07:30 AM

I noticed in the comments under that video there are several people who says the upcoming Novavax vaccine (no mRNA or DNA) appears to be

a better choice.

 

It is speculated that it will soon get FDA approval for use by June of this year.

 

 


Edited by lancebr, 11 April 2021 - 07:33 AM.

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#88 Dorian Grey

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 07:34 AM

I noticed in the comments under that video there are several people who says the upcoming Novavax vaccine appears to be a better choice.

 

It is speculated that it will soon get FDA approval for use by June of this year.

 

Yes, I'm looking forward to Novavax for my booster shot this fall.  A weak boost against morbid disease from the "experimental vaccines"  now, and a potentially better jab to follow, as the J&J jab fades.  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 11 April 2021 - 07:39 AM.


#89 Gal220

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 12:15 AM

Looks like Pfizer has a booster target, break through variant reported in Israel

 



#90 Gal220

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 12:18 AM

I noticed in the comments under that video there are several people who says the upcoming Novavax vaccine (no mRNA or DNA) appears to be

a better choice.

 

It is speculated that it will soon get FDA approval for use by June of this year.

Hopefully there is clear winner here for safety, Im good with h202 nebulizing, but got 2 little people in school which will probably start requiring it at some point. 

 

J&J fighting adverse effect shutdowns already.







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