1988 replies to this topic

[Mind]

I am just presenting facts to counter the distorted anti-vax hysteria constantly being spewed here. But people like Mind will just cover their ears because they can't accept that there might be cracks in the reality of their world view. People like Mind will continue to get all of their information from slanted sources like the Washington times and ZeroHedge (which BTW was recently uncovered as a tool of Russian propagandists). Those sources are not interested in truth, everything is presented in ways that don't reflect reality and just feed the false narratives the Minds of the world are hungry for. The word distopia has been batted around here and the situation is distopian- you have vaccines that clearly keep people from severe illness and death- yet you have people who are being manipulated by a right-wing media ecosystem to accept false narratives that the vaccines are bad. It's absolutely mind control at a scary and sad level. If you folks are so brainwashed that you believe life saving treatments are bad what else are you willing to be convinced of by your media puppetmasters? You think everyone else is sheep, but, darlings, I hate to break it to you but YOU are the sheep.

 

Like I mentioned earlier, most of the injected people I know are doing okay. I only know a small handful that had severe reactions, injury, or died.

 

There are many problems with the CDC's data.

 

As far as I am aware:

 

1. The CDC has not tested whether the injected people have had a previous COVID infection. If they had a previous infection, then they already had strong immune protection and the injection was not the reason they stayed out of the hospital or avoided death.

 

2. The CDC counts a person as an "unvaccinated" COVID death if the person gets infected and dies before the month or so time frame from the time of the first injection to two weeks after the second injection.

 

3. The CDC does not count a person as injured or killed by the injection, if the death or disability occurs before the month or so time frame from the time of the first injection to two weeks after the second injection.

 

4. The CDC admitted at one point that they do not actually have an accurate count of how many people are fully injected or boosted.

 

5. At one point, the CDC stopped tracking breakthrough cases. Tough to know the true rate of injected people getting ill or dying when you are not even tracking the cases.

[bladedmind]

It's the Russians, it's the Russians, it's the Russians, oh my god, can't you see, it's the Russians, waaa haaa, the Russians, snuffle.

[geo12the]

geo12the, the point here that no one wants to voice is that lives that were saved were in ~1% of the population, heavily over-representing older people and people with multiple comorbidities. Versus the lives that were sacrificed: young healthy people who had 0 chance of dying from covid. That's the crucial point. The young were sacrificed to save the old. And not just their lives and health. Their education, socialization and, crucially, their trust in older generations were irrevocably broken. This will undoubtedly amplify the usual intergenerational conflict, in 10-20 years, when this generation will come of age. And then who would blame them?

 

I am concerned about the children too and the effects of the pandemic on their psyches. Now things are going back to normal more so things will normalize for them more. But I am talking about a separate issue: denial of any benefits from the vaccines and constant anti-vax propaganda spewed here. Most of it originating from far-right media sources that selectively distort science to fit their views and political agendas. People are being played by the Tucker Carlsons and other far-right wing media charlatans.  It's not reality. It's manufactured reality that feeds what people want to hear. That is sad and scary and this kind of brainwashing will be with us once the pandemic is gone.

[geo12the]

It's the Russians, it's the Russians, it's the Russians, oh my god, can't you see, it's the Russians, waaa haaa, the Russians, snuffle.

 

Apparently with Zerohedge it may be. 

 

https://thehill.com/...mlin-propaganda

Edited by geo12the, 18 February 2022 - 06:42 AM.

[geo12the]

Very sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but here is the latest vaccine data. I know this will be hard for some to hear, please bear with me:

 

Graph1: Vaccines still keeping people 18 and above out of the hospital. 

Graph2: Vaccines keeping people between 18 and 49 out of the hospital

Graph3: Vaccines still keeping people from dying. 

 

I apologize in advance for the trauma and cognitive dissonance this might cause to some.

 

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•  graph2-hospital18to49.jpg   57.61KB   0 downloads
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[Advocatus Diaboli]

Re post #275:

 

Interesting graphs (for some, maybe), geo12the. But why would the readers here be interested in graphical stats from Burundi (save the 3rd graph which may be from somewhere in the US)? They are from Burundi, correct? Or are these unattributed graphs hot off some blogger's PC-graphing program? Inquiring minds want to be able to verify that what you're posting is legit, and to see how the data appear in context.

 

I wonder what "COVID-19-Associated-Hospitalizations" means in graphs 1 and 2 (reading left to right). A 49-year-old woman brought into the hospital for suspected heart attack was found to have COVID-19--does that fit the "associated" criterion?

 

And, of course, the graphs tell us nothing about comorbidities.

 

Too little information to assess the merit of your posting, geo12the.

 

 

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 20 February 2022 - 09:24 PM.

[geo12the]

Re post #275:

 

Interesting graphs (for some, maybe), geo12the. But why would the readers here be interested in graphical stats from Burundi (save the 3rd graph which may be from somewhere in the US)? They are from Burundi, correct? Or are these unattributed graphs hot off some blogger's PC-graphing program? Inquiring minds want to be able to verify that what you're posting is legit, and to see how the data appear in context.

 

I wonder what "COVID-19-Associated-Hospitalizations" means in graphs 1 and 2 (reading left to right). A 49-year-old woman brought into the hospital for suspected heart attack was found to have COVID-19--does that fit the "associated" criterion?

 

And, of course, the graphs tell us nothing about comorbidities.

 

Too little information to assess the merit of your posting, geo12the.

 

I am not sure why you think they are from Burundi. These are all US data from the CDC:

 

https://covid.cdc.go...-vaccine-status

 

No doubt someone like Mind will post a link from prestigious medical journals like ZeroHedge or the Moonie Washington Examiner saying the CDC data is not real. 

Edited by geo12the, 20 February 2022 - 10:02 PM.

[geo12the]

In case people forgot, longevity means life expectancy or long life. Definition here. You would think people on a Longevity forum would embrace a medical prophylactic that prevents death and sickness. Instead they bury their heads in the sand for nonsensical reasons related to political tribal identity and/or the willingness to believe conspiracy theories and internet quack gurus. 

 

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

geo12the, thanks for the link (post #277)

 

"I am not sure why you think they are from Burundi."

 

I was trying to minimize the Damerau–Levenshtein distance between "Centers for Disease Control" and "references needed" and wound up with "Burundi". So, to answer your implicit question: serendipity.

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 20 February 2022 - 11:32 PM.

[Mind]

"People are being played by the Tucker Carlsons and other far-right wing media charlatans.  It's not reality. It's manufactured reality that feeds what people want to hear. That is sad and scary and this kind of brainwashing will be with us once the pandemic is gone."

 

Could you provide an example of Tucker Carlson's anti-vax brainwashing? His videos are all online.

[Mind]

First we found out that the CDC was not consistently tracking breakthrough COVID cases, then that they did not have an accurate count of how many people are vaccinated, and now we find out from the New York Times that the CDC has been withholding vast amounts of data about the efficacy of the COVID injections. All CDC data, publications, and press releases should be used with caution.

[Mind]

Noted critics of the COVID pandemic policies, Dr. Malone and Steve Kirsch are also flabbergasted about the CDC hiding vaccine data. Dr. Malone's critique here. Steve Kirsch also provides data about the severe negative side-effects of the COVID injections in Israel - a high quality study showing significant side effects in as much as 5% of the injected! This matches what I have seen in my circle of acquaintances and confirms what hundreds of thousands of people have been posting online (outside of facebook/google/twitter, where they are censored). Even a fraction of 1% incidence of negative side effects in previous vaccines were enough to shelve them.

[Hip]

People like Mind will continue to get all of their information from slanted sources like the Washington times and ZeroHedge (which BTW was recently uncovered as a tool of Russian propagandists).

 

Mind is acting like a Russian propagandist, since everything Mind says is in line with standard Russian propaganda tactics.

 

Russian propaganda usually involves criticizing Western governments and authorities, in order to sow distrust. That weakens a nation if the population does not trust their government. The Russian RT channel promotes such distrust all the time, and comments Mind makes involves sowing distrust in the government and the authorities.

 

There is not one single instant that Mind has ever been in agreement with the authorities, he always tries to make the authorities look bad, just as the Russians do. Statistically it would be almost impossible to disagree with the government and authorities on every aspect. Most normal people will agree with their government on some things, and might disagree on other things. But when you disagree with everything, there must be something wrong.

 

Either you are working for the Russians, or you have the mental health condition of schizotypy, which causes people to become paranoid and suspicious of authorities. Longecity of course has lots of people with mental health issues, as the Longecity forums on mental health testify.

Edited by Hip, 23 February 2022 - 06:06 AM.

[geo12the]

"People are being played by the Tucker Carlsons and other far-right wing media charlatans.  It's not reality. It's manufactured reality that feeds what people want to hear. That is sad and scary and this kind of brainwashing will be with us once the pandemic is gone."

 

Could you provide an example of Tucker Carlson's anti-vax brainwashing? His videos are all online.

 

Tucker Carlson is a far-right conservative provocateur.  He monetizes dividing Americans into different teams. This forum is about longevity and I find it weird to have so many posts from very fringe political sites be they right or left. I certainly will not waste my time hunting his videos to find examples of his anti-vax brainwashing but if you do some googling you will find information. The larger point is why are there so many posts from highly politically slated news sources on a site dedicated to longevity? Can we just stick with the facts not pre-digested from Tucker or Steve Bannon? Why do we need science pre-digested and regurgitated from far right-wing (or far-left-wing) hacks anyway?

[Hip]

. The young were sacrificed to save the old. 

 

The dumb young sacrificed themselves by listening to antivax propaganda, and by not taking the pandemic seriously enough. Millions of young people now have long COVID, a fate worse than death in many respects. Had they listened to the medical advice given, and got vaccinated, wore respirator masks, followed social distancing rules, etc, the number of long COVID cases would be lower. 

 

In the UK, there is now a charity called Long COVID Kids which is representing children suffering long COVID. These poor kids may have this illness for the rest of their lives. 

 

Their lives were sacrificed by the antivaxers, antimaskers, and the sort of anti-establishment figures who populate Longecity.

[geo12the]

First we found out that the CDC was not consistently tracking breakthrough COVID cases, then that they did not have an accurate count of how many people are vaccinated, and now we find out from the New York Times that the CDC has been withholding vast amounts of data about the efficacy of the COVID injections. All CDC data, publications, and press releases should be used with caution.

 

 While I believe they should release all the data they have, the graphs I posted speak for themselves. I believe them. I don't think there is a grand conspiracy at the CDC to make up data. If the graphs I posted showed the same magnitude of preventing death and hospitalization by Ivermectin or HCQ instead of vaccination many folks here would be ecstatic. Which itself is a ridiculous situation that we have people rooting for medical treatments like they are sports team: Ivermectin Yeah!!!   Vaccines BOO Hiss! It's ridiculous. Am I wrong here??? Why cant people just look at the data and accept it rather than have to have science digested and analyzed for them by internet gurus and Steve Bannon? 

Edited by geo12the, 23 February 2022 - 06:32 AM.

[Gal220]

Hart group in UK is demanding investigation into 20% increase mortality in males 15-19(official UK numbers).  Females in the same age saw a slight decrease.

 

https://www.hartgrou...land-and-wales/

 

 

Others discussing

https://twitter.com/...013079263985664

https://twitter.com/...230603565543431

https://twitter.com/...265363752427521

[Mind]

Tucker Carlson is a far-right conservative provocateur.  He monetizes dividing Americans into different teams. This forum is about longevity and I find it weird to have so many posts from very fringe political sites be they right or left. I certainly will not waste my time hunting his videos to find examples of his anti-vax brainwashing but if you do some googling you will find information. The larger point is why are there so many posts from highly politically slated news sources on a site dedicated to longevity? Can we just stick with the facts not pre-digested from Tucker or Steve Bannon? Why do we need science pre-digested and regurgitated from far right-wing (or far-left-wing) hacks anyway?

 

Videos of Tucker Carlson pushing anti-vax brainwashing should be easy to find and post.

[Mind]

Mind is acting like a Russian propagandist, since everything Mind says is in line with standard Russian propaganda tactics.

 

Russian propaganda usually involves criticizing Western governments and authorities, in order to sow distrust. That weakens a nation if the population does not trust their government. The Russian RT channel promotes such distrust all the time, and comments Mind makes involves sowing distrust in the government and the authorities.

 

There is not one single instant that Mind has ever been in agreement with the authorities, he always tries to make the authorities look bad, just as the Russians do. Statistically it would be almost impossible to disagree with the government and authorities on every aspect. Most normal people will agree with their government on some things, and might disagree on other things. But when you disagree with everything, there must be something wrong.

 

Either you are working for the Russians, or you have the mental health condition of schizotypy, which causes people to become paranoid and suspicious of authorities. Longecity of course has lots of people with mental health issues, as the Longecity forums on mental health testify.

 

The New York Times report claims the CDC is hiding vast amounts of vaccine data and that decisions are being made based upon politics and not science. Is the New York Times also working for Russia?

 

Criticizing the CDC, NIH, FDA response to the COVID incident is not irrational. None of the policies did anything to stop wave after wave after wave of COVID in country after country. Masks didn't stop the spread. Respirators didn't stop the spread. Plexiglass barriers did not stop the spread. Sanitizing everything did not stop the spread. COVID injections did not stop the spread. All I have to do is look around where I live to see that all of the policies failed miserably. Nearly everyone I know who got the injections got COVID and many were hospitalized. I have to balance what I see around me with what the CDC is claiming. There are large discrepancies.

[Hip]

Criticizing the CDC, NIH, FDA response to the COVID incident is not irrational.

 

It's not irrational to criticize governments for specific mistakes they make. Governments around the world made some mistakes in their response to the pandemic, and they also got a lot of things right.

 

So a rational person would praise the government when they got things right, and constructively criticize where they got things wrong. But when there is ONLY criticism of the authorities, and NEVER any praise, that is not rational, and is more like the work of a Russian agent. 

 

There are certain people here who ONLY criticize and try to undermine the government and authorities. That shows an unbalanced perspective. 

 

 

 

And what I am saying does not just apply to people on this forum, it also applies to anyone who puts themselves forward as a medical or scientific expert, and who comments on the pandemic. I am talking about doctors and professors. If those people ONLY criticize the actions of governments around the world, without any praise, and then claim that they know the answers, and imply that they are a lot smarter than the government, well these are also mentally unbalanced people, not to mention deluded in their conceit. 

Edited by Hip, 23 February 2022 - 10:18 PM.

[Gal220]

Looks like it is going to be insurance that blows up the covid vaccines, Bill Gates forgot to grease this set of wheels - link , link2

 

"The numbers that resulted from our analysis are very far away from the publicly announced numbers. It would be unethical not to talk about it" -- BKK board member Andreas Schöfbeck."

 

other threads with discussion

https://twitter.com/...555793092685824

 

mortality info, equates to roughly 120k US deaths

https://twitter.com/...576897064517635

 

https://twitter.com/...566626174611463

 

Edited by Gal220, 23 February 2022 - 11:35 PM.

[Mind]

Looks like it is going to be insurance that blows up the covid vaccines, Bill Gates forgot to grease this set of wheels - link , link2

 

"The numbers that resulted from our analysis are very far away from the publicly announced numbers. It would be unethical not to talk about it" -- BKK board member Andreas Schöfbeck."

 

other threads with discussion

https://twitter.com/...555793092685824

 

mortality info, equates to roughly 120k US deaths

https://twitter.com/...576897064517635

 

https://twitter.com/...566626174611463

 

This is info about a large German insurer claiming huge numbers of severe vaccine side effects.

 

Several U.S. insurance agencies have made the same claim. Judging by the tens of thousands of people posting their negative experiences online (and deaths of people they know), this seems like a legitimate possibility.

[Mind]

Another harsh critique about the CDC hiding vast amounts of data regarding COVID infections, outcome, vaccination status, etc...

 

https://brownstone.o...nd-then-hid-it/

 

 

 

If a scientist at a university or a lab is found to have deliberately buried relevant data because they contradict a preset conclusion, the results are professional ruin. The CDC, however, has legal privileges that allows it to get away with actions that would otherwise be considered fraud in academia. 

 

[pamojja]

This is info about a large German insurer claiming huge numbers of severe vaccine side effects.

]

Excerpt tranlated with Deepl.com:

"Strong warning signal"

For the first time, figures from a major German health insurance association are available on side effects of Covid vaccines. BKK ProVita board member Andreas Schöfbeck had the data of millions of insured members of the BKK group analyzed. According to the report, the total number of side effects is many times higher than those reported by the Paul Ehrlich Institute (PEI). In a video call with WELT on Wednesday, Schöfbeck said, "The numbers determined are considerable and urgently need to be plausibilized."

According to Schöfbeck, BKK ProVita has become alert to the increasing number of diagnoses in the health insurer's case management that suggest vaccination side effects. Therefore, the common data pool of all BKK insurers was searched for the diagnosis codes T88.0 (Infection after vaccination/sepsis after vaccination), T88.1 (Other complications after vaccination, skin rash after vaccination), Y59.9 (Complications due to vaccines or biologically active substances) and U12.9 (Undesirable side effects during the use of Covid-19 vaccines).

The result: from the beginning of 2021 to the middle of the third quarter, 216,695 BKK-insured patients had been treated for side effects caused by vaccines. Excluded were 7665 cases of complications from other vaccines. Any multiple treatments of insured persons were not included in the statistics - they were calculated per patient.

By comparison, the Paul Ehrlich Institute recorded only 244,576 adverse event reports triggered by Covid vaccines by the Dec. 31, 2021, cutoff date, based on 61.4 million vaccinees. "Our analysis shows that we are dealing with a significant underreporting here," Schöfbeck says. He points out that the data he and his team analyzed cover only 10.9 million insured people and only a period of seven and a half months; the vaccination campaign has already been running for 14 months in Germany.

"According to our calculations, we consider 400,000 doctor visits by our insureds due to vaccination complications to date to be realistic," says Schöfbeck: "Extrapolated to the total population, this figure would be three million." How does he explain the difference between PEI and BKK data? Schöfbeck cites the reporting system as a problem: "Doctors are not paid for reporting vaccination side effects. At the same time, this process is very time-consuming. It is simply impossible to report everything." No statement can be made about the nature and severity of the complaints based on the data pool, Schöfbeck says: "The only thing that's clear is that people got so bad that they went to the doctor."

Schöfbeck addressed his findings to various institutions in recent days, including the German Medical Association, the Association of Statutory Health Insurance Physicians, the GKV-Spitzenverband and the Standing Committee on Vaccination (Stiko). The letter to Paul Cichutek, the PEI president, is headed with the subject "Severe warning signal for coded vaccination side effects after Corona vaccination". In it, the author states that the new figures "are seen as a significant alarm signal that must absolutely be taken into account in the further use of the vaccines." He expects quick answers, because a "danger to human life" cannot be ruled out.

Schöfbeck has been a board member of BKK Pro Vita, based in Munich, for 21 years. The health insurance business economist says he feels an obligation to his insured. That's why he makes the data public: "The figures that emerged from our analysis are very far from the publicly announced figures. It would be ethically wrong not to talk about them."

[Mind]

Vaccination rates plummet in the U.S. I think this is mainly due to the fact that most people who got the injections caught COVID and got sick. Wht take an injection that doesn't prevent catching the disease or from falling ill.

 

What has been obvious for months now, based upon data from - other - more transparent countries, is that the COVID injections are not keeping people from getting ill or from ending up in the hospital. Data in recent weeks shows the same thing in the U.S. The RCT trials from Pfizer showed an absolute risk reduction of only 0.80%, so this should not be surprising.

 

Brazilian researchers propose a possible method of action for the spike protein of the Sars-Cov2 virus (which is also generated by the COVID injection) to cause myocarditis.

Edited by Mind, 28 February 2022 - 07:23 PM.

[geo12the]

Vaccination rates plummet in the U.S. I think this is mainly due to the fact that most people who got the injections caught COVID and got sick. Wht take an injection that doesn't prevent catching the disease or from falling ill.

 

What has been obvious for months now, based upon data from - other - more transparent countries, is that the COVID injections are not keeping people from getting ill or from ending up in the hospital. Data in recent weeks shows the same thing in the U.S. The RCT trials from Pfizer showed an absolute risk reduction of only 0.80%, so this should not be surprising.

 

Brazilian researchers propose a possible method of action for the spike protein of the Sars-Cov2 virus (which is also generated by the COVID injection) to cause myocarditis.

 

"Vaccination rates plummet in the U.S"- Uh, is this really surprising??? Most people in the US already ARE vaccinated. Those who are not vaccinated by this point are the ones who have bought into the anti-vax propaganda and will never be vaccinated. 

 

" Data in recent weeks shows the same thing in the U.S." - no data in this link, just a grandiose headline. Where is the data? What is the "data in recent weeks"? The latest data I have seen, and recently posted here, I will post it again, is that the vaccines do end up keeping people from dying and keeping them out of the hospital. 

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[geo12the]

]

Excerpt tranlated with Deepl.com:
 

 

 

I have no idea about the veracity of this story because there is no actual data presented.  I have always thought that the insurance companies will be the ones who will have the greatest sway to get people vaccinated. They are focused on making money and the unvaccinated will be more expensive since they are more likely to end up in the hospital.  At the end of the day reason may not convince the anti-vaxers to get vaccinated, but having to pay more for health insurance might:

 

https://news.bloombe...-covid-policies

 

Money talks.

Edited by geo12the, 26 February 2022 - 05:51 PM.

[Mind]

"Vaccination rates plummet in the U.S"- Uh, is this really surprising??? Most people in the US already ARE vaccinated. Those who are not vaccinated by this point are the ones who have bought into the anti-vax propaganda and will never be vaccinated. 

 

" Data in recent weeks shows the same thing in the U.S." - no data in this link, just a grandiose headline. Where is the data? What is the "data in recent weeks"? The latest data I have seen, and recently posted here, I will post it again, is that the vaccines do end up keeping people from dying and keeping them out of the hospital. 

 

I was referring to booster shots. Less than 30% have gotten booster shots.(a little over 60% have gotten 2 shots).

[Mind]

"Vaccination rates plummet in the U.S"- Uh, is this really surprising??? Most people in the US already ARE vaccinated. Those who are not vaccinated by this point are the ones who have bought into the anti-vax propaganda and will never be vaccinated. 

 

" Data in recent weeks shows the same thing in the U.S." - no data in this link, just a grandiose headline. Where is the data? What is the "data in recent weeks"? The latest data I have seen, and recently posted here, I will post it again, is that the vaccines do end up keeping people from dying and keeping them out of the hospital. 

 

Thanks for posting the charts, but people should be skeptical of CDC data, considering they are hiding vast amounts of data. (According to the NYT)

 

There are several other issues with CDC data that are not resolved...highlighted a few posts ago. A couple of the major ones are that they are not testing injected people for prior infection and they do not count hospitalizations and deaths as an "injected hospitalization death" unless the infection and death occur more than about a month after the first shot.

[joesixpack]

I have no idea about the veracity of this story because there is no actual data presented.  I have always thought that the insurance companies will be the ones who will have the greatest sway to get people vaccinated. They are focused on making money and the unvaccinated will be more expensive since they are more likely to end up in the hospital.  At the end of the day reason may not convince the anti-vaxers to get vaccinated, but having to pay more for health insurance might:

 

https://news.bloombe...-covid-policies

 

Money talks.

 

Money does talk. So, when I got 2 shots, of a vaccine, I expected to be done with it. When Pfizer then tells me that the "vaccine" protection fades in 6 months, and I need a 3rd injection for "protection" from death or serious disease, I am skeptical. When they say maybe a 4th I say BS. And when Pfizer admits that the vaccine does not prevent the disease, or stop the spread, I have to wonder what the point of a vaccine mandate is? Fund raiser for Pfizer?

 

If it doesn't prevent catching the disease, does not prevent transmission, and causes serious injuries in a significant percentage of those who take it I would expect it to be taken off the market and cancelation of the drug company's immunity from litigation.