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Regarding the vaccines, I think this is a question we All should be asking as members of a longevity-promoting website.

coronavirus

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#121 Mind

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Posted 21 December 2021 - 04:27 PM

The vast majority of people on this site know what adaptive immune response means.

 

The COVID injections are not stopping the pandemic in almost any way shape or form. Preliminary data suggest the shots reduce (but do not eliminate) the risk of dying. That is all.

 

When people take routine vaccinations when young or old, those people do not get the disease and they do not transmit the disease.

 

When people take the COVID shots, they still catch the disease, they still spread the disease, they still get sick, they still get hospitalized, and they can still die.

 

That is an awful "vaccine".

 

Germany is considering forced vaccinations because they pandemic is so out of control (but the vaccine is working!)

 

The Netherlands went into hard lockdown again (but the vaccine is working!)

 

The NHL (nearly 100% "vaccinated"), has to pause the season because so many players are getting COVID (but the vaccines are working!)

 

The nearly 100% "vaccinated" NBA has to change to rules to allow new players on squads because too many players have COVID (but the vaccines are totally stopping the pandemic!)

 

The NFL has dozens of players out due to COVID every week (but the vaccines are so great!)

 

Turn on CNN today...they will tell you that the pandemic is raging out of control....24/7. (But the "vaccines" are so awesome and totally slamming the brakes on the pandemic!)

 

In my own personal orbit, 30 people have had COVID over the last month (including myself). 25 were vaccinated. 5 were not. A couple of the vaccinated people had to go to the hospital. None of the unvaccinated had to go to the hospital.

 

When I see hundreds of counterexamples in plain sight that the "vaccines" are not working very good at all, I have to believe my eyes.

 

 


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#122 geo12the

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Posted 21 December 2021 - 04:47 PM

The vast majority of people on this site know what adaptive immune response means.

 

The COVID injections are not stopping the pandemic in almost any way shape or form. Preliminary data suggest the shots reduce (but do not eliminate) the risk of dying. That is all.

 

When people take routine vaccinations when young or old, those people do not get the disease and they do not transmit the disease.

 

When people take the COVID shots, they still catch the disease, they still spread the disease, they still get sick, they still get hospitalized, and they can still die.

 

That is an awful "vaccine".

 

Germany is considering forced vaccinations because they pandemic is so out of control (but the vaccine is working!)

 

The Netherlands went into hard lockdown again (but the vaccine is working!)

 

The NHL (nearly 100% "vaccinated"), has to pause the season because so many players are getting COVID (but the vaccines are working!)

 

The nearly 100% "vaccinated" NBA has to change to rules to allow new players on squads because too many players have COVID (but the vaccines are totally stopping the pandemic!)

 

The NFL has dozens of players out due to COVID every week (but the vaccines are so great!)

 

Turn on CNN today...they will tell you that the pandemic is raging out of control....24/7. (But the "vaccines" are so awesome and totally slamming the brakes on the pandemic!)

 

In my own personal orbit, 30 people have had COVID over the last month (including myself). 25 were vaccinated. 5 were not. A couple of the vaccinated people had to go to the hospital. None of the unvaccinated had to go to the hospital.

 

When I see hundreds of counterexamples in plain sight that the "vaccines" are not working very good at all, I have to believe my eyes.

 

"When people take routine vaccinations when young or old, those people do not get the disease and they do not transmit the disease."

 

That is not factually correct! Look at the Flu vaccine. In any given year the protection it offers hoverers around 50% or less. And it has been shown that it is NOT sterilizing.
 
I refer you again to the graphs showing the COVID vaccines lower infection and lower death and hospitalization rates.  Why is it so hard for you to admit this? If you look at the stats now most people in the hospitals are unvaxed. It is currently a pandemic of the unvaxed. That may change. 

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#123 Hip

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Posted 21 December 2021 - 04:53 PM

The vast majority of people on this site know what adaptive immune response means.

 
The dubious standards of scientific debate about vaccine and pandemic issues make me think many people here must have studied knitting and crochet at university, rather than any science or analytical subject!

 

 

 

The COVID injections are not stopping the pandemic in almost any way shape or form. Preliminary data suggest the shots reduce (but do not eliminate) the risk of dying. That is all.
 
When people take routine vaccinations when young or old, those people do not get the disease and they do not transmit the disease.

 
FACT CHECK: when seasonal influenza vaccines are given to older people each winter, these only reduce the chances of getting the flu by about 25% ot 50%. 

 

So it is quite wrong to say that when people take routine vaccines, they do not get the disease. 

 

 

And most vaccines only have limited effectiveness; very hard to find a a vaccine which is 100% effective. For example:

 

HPV vaccine is 71% effective, meaning 29% will still get a cervical infection with this wart virus, in spite of the vaccine.

 

Polio vaccine is 90% effective against polio, but 10% will get polio if exposed to the virus, even if vaccinated.

 

Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles, and 88% effective against mumps.

 
 
 


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#124 Mind

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Posted 21 December 2021 - 04:58 PM

The CDC cannot even count the number of vaccinated people in the U.S. so I rely more heavily upon higher quality data from other countries, which the Harvard study showed "vaccination" rates are highly correlated with increased spread of the disease. If a therapeutic does not stop transmission of a disease, but only alleviates symptoms, then it is not a vaccine in the way the vast majority of vaccines work and the way the vast majority of people think about them. The flu vaccine and COVID injections are outliers. Other true vaccines eliminate the disease from a population. The COVID shots only work to reduce the risk of dying for a couple months, then you need another shot, then you need another shot, etc....


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#125 Hip

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Posted 21 December 2021 - 05:03 PM

It's amazing how Mind does not even read other people's posts. It was pointed out by geo12the and myself just above that Mind's statements about vaccines were false, yet Mind does not appear to notice these posts, and carries on regardless. How can you even have a scientific debate, when one side does not read or respond to the comments of the other side?


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#126 DanCG

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Posted 21 December 2021 - 05:35 PM

 Setting aside political views do you think Zerohedge or Tucker Carlson or for that matter Rachael Maddow are trustworthy sources for COVID information? 

I don’t watch TV news, so I have no opinion on Carlson or Maddow.

Although I have Zerohedge bookmarked, I seldom read it. So I took a look at the Covid related articles that are up right now. The first one “Some Good Omicron News: Symptoms Remain Extremely Mild; UK Cases Peaking” contains a lot of data from reliable sources. There are editorial comments intermingled with straightforward analysis. Despite the headline, one of the key conclusions in a quote from one of the sources is given the historical lag between cases and MV, it's still too early to draw definite conclusions on this.” Seems reasonable to me.

 

The next headline reads, “Japanese Government Tells Citizens: "Don't Discriminate Against The Unvaccinated"”. Well, that’s good news that I had not seen anywhere else.

 

The final headline reads, “Is The Omicron Surge Mostly Due To Massively Increased Testing?It points the fact that if you do massively more testing, the number of known infections will also be massively more. Nothing radical or conspiratorial about that. This idea has been discussed in many quarters from the beginning. The article also balanced in presenting a diversity opinions from different sources, from “Hospital priority should go first to those with a booster, second to those with two shots, third to those with one shot, and last to the unvaccinated, “ to “There is no indication to date that Omicron will fill up hospitals, or ICUs, or that it will kill millions of people.”

So I see no problem with including Zerohedge among other sources of information.

 

PS. Wikipedia is a great recourse for purely factual information. I use it to get background on drugs or genes. It is totally unreliable, however, for any matter that is controversial. If your argument is based on some Wikipedia editor’s opinion, you lose.


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#127 Mind

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Posted 21 December 2021 - 06:33 PM

It's amazing how Mind does not even read other people's posts. It was pointed out by geo12the and myself just above that Mind's statements about vaccines were false, yet Mind does not appear to notice these posts, and carries on regardless. How can you even have a scientific debate, when one side does not read or respond to the comments of the other side?

 

Even though I have written it several times already....here goes again....for the record....for the umpteenth time.

 

Preliminary data indicates that the COVID injections alleviate symptoms of the disease and reduce the chance of death.

 

They do not prevent you from contracting the disease (absolute fact).

 

They do not prevent you from transmitting the disease (absolutely true)

 

They do not prevent people from getting sick - only reduce the odds.(another fact) See here.

 

They do not prevent people from dying - only reduce the odds. (true). See here.

 

If you still think that the COVID injections stop the spread of the disease you are not listening to the current head of the CDC who said, the shots do not prevent the spread of the disease.


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#128 geo12the

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 12:27 AM

Even though I have written it several times already....here goes again....for the record....for the umpteenth time.

 

Preliminary data indicates that the COVID injections alleviate symptoms of the disease and reduce the chance of death.

 

They do not prevent you from contracting the disease (absolute fact).

 

They do not prevent you from transmitting the disease (absolutely true)

 

They do not prevent people from getting sick - only reduce the odds.(another fact) See here.

 

They do not prevent people from dying - only reduce the odds. (true). See here.

 

If you still think that the COVID injections stop the spread of the disease you are not listening to the current head of the CDC who said, the shots do not prevent the spread of the disease.

 

You are essentially bending over backwards to minimize how well the vaccines work. Can I ask why? Is it against your political tribal identify (Tucker etc. would not approve)?  


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#129 geo12the

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 12:37 AM

I don’t watch TV news, so I have no opinion on Carlson or Maddow.

Although I have Zerohedge bookmarked, I seldom read it. So I took a look at the Covid related articles that are up right now. The first one “Some Good Omicron News: Symptoms Remain Extremely Mild; UK Cases Peaking” contains a lot of data from reliable sources. There are editorial comments intermingled with straightforward analysis. Despite the headline, one of the key conclusions in a quote from one of the sources is given the historical lag between cases and MV, it's still too early to draw definite conclusions on this.” Seems reasonable to me.

 

The next headline reads, “Japanese Government Tells Citizens: "Don't Discriminate Against The Unvaccinated"”. Well, that’s good news that I had not seen anywhere else.

 

The final headline reads, “Is The Omicron Surge Mostly Due To Massively Increased Testing?It points the fact that if you do massively more testing, the number of known infections will also be massively more. Nothing radical or conspiratorial about that. This idea has been discussed in many quarters from the beginning. The article also balanced in presenting a diversity opinions from different sources, from “Hospital priority should go first to those with a booster, second to those with two shots, third to those with one shot, and last to the unvaccinated, “ to “There is no indication to date that Omicron will fill up hospitals, or ICUs, or that it will kill millions of people.”

So I see no problem with including Zerohedge among other sources of information.

 

PS. Wikipedia is a great recourse for purely factual information. I use it to get background on drugs or genes. It is totally unreliable, however, for any matter that is controversial. If your argument is based on some Wikipedia editor’s opinion, you lose.

 

The reason I mentioned Zerohedge is because my right wing anti-mask anti-vax  friend who almost died of COVID would always send me articles from there and they were always very slanted and filled with misinformation. Maybe the articles you saw were not, I don't have the time or energy to do a deep dive into Zerohege but I know it does have lots of factually incorrect or distorted COVID information. People are free to get medical advice from whoever they want, even a very politically slanted source,  but I am free to say it's BS. I am free to question why are you getting information about virology from a source that is based on politics and not a science or medical source. Maybe I am crazy but I think our world has become too politicized and the pandemic is too politicized and this forum is too politicized.    


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#130 DanCG

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 01:44 AM

[Edited for reference]

 

[1]The reason I mentioned Zerohedge is because my right wing anti-mask anti-vax  friend ....

 

[2] Maybe the articles you saw were not, ...but I know it does have lots of factually incorrect or distorted COVID information. ...

 

[3] I am free to question why are you getting information about virology from a source that is based on politics and not a science or medical source.

 

[4] Maybe I am crazy but I think our world has become too politicized and the pandemic is too politicized and this forum is too politicized.    

 

[1] You have a right-wing friend? That person must have a saintly amount of patience.

 

[2] I did say that I seldom actually read ZeroHedge. You asked, so I looked and found that the current articles don’t seem all that bad. Maybe they are not representative, I can’t say.

 

[3] I don’t look to anything aimed at the general public as a source of information about any scientific subject. When something in the popular press that piques my interest, I look for the original source. Science ‘journalists’ of all stripes make a lot of mistakes, either because of bias, deliberate misinformation, or simple ignorance.

 

[4] As for politicization, well, you are one of the few people on this forum who regularly uses “right wing” as a disparaging term. Most people would rather keep politics out and don’t mention the left-right paradigm at all.


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#131 Hip

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 01:52 AM

Preliminary data indicates that the COVID injections alleviate symptoms of the disease and reduce the chance of death.

 

They do not prevent you from contracting the disease (absolute fact).

 

They do not prevent you from transmitting the disease (absolutely true)

 

They do not prevent people from getting sick - only reduce the odds.(another fact) See here.

 

They do not prevent people from dying - only reduce the odds. (true). See here.

 

Like all other vaccines.

 

So what is your point?


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#132 xEva

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 03:13 AM

Like all other vaccines.

 

So what is your point?

 

 

His point is that the covid vaccines are crap and that their meager benefits are not worth the risks. Especially for the young. 

 

As for the flu vaccines, they have always come with a warning that WHO/CDC may fail to predict the right strain for the year ahead.  In contrast, covid vaccines are touted as the last word in biotech, perfectly matched to spike protein -- for the original Wuhan variant, alas, but now we have omicron, with 3 dozen mutations.

 

In the right mind and in decent health (and not to forget the horse paste on hand!) who would want to subject themselves to this lunacy?

 

So stop bickering please.


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#133 xEva

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 04:14 AM

hi Hip! thanks for that dislike button. I wonder if you had a chance to listen to this podcast before it was taken down (for copyright). It'd be interesting to hear your feedback. Again, it's Joe Rogan and Peter McCullough.

 

https://www.bitchute...o/CRIQsQrARDak/


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#134 geo12the

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 05:40 AM

[1] You have a right-wing friend? That person must have a saintly amount of patience.

 

[2] I did say that I seldom actually read ZeroHedge. You asked, so I looked and found that the current articles don’t seem all that bad. Maybe they are not representative, I can’t say.

 

[3] I don’t look to anything aimed at the general public as a source of information about any scientific subject. When something in the popular press that piques my interest, I look for the original source. Science ‘journalists’ of all stripes make a lot of mistakes, either because of bias, deliberate misinformation, or simple ignorance.

 

[4] As for politicization, well, you are one of the few people on this forum who regularly uses “right wing” as a disparaging term. Most people would rather keep politics out and don’t mention the left-right paradigm at all.

 

[1] You have a right-wing friend? That person must have a saintly amount of patience.

 

 I am not left wing. I am NOT a Democrat, I am registered as an independent.  I am a moderate and get called a right-winger by liberals and get called a liberal by right-wingers.  All of my family except for my spouse are Republicans. I have friends and loved ones of all political stripes. I argue with the left and right and I like to play devil's advocate. Today you have people trying to divide Americans into red and blue teams. I am adamantly against  that. I am adamantly against the political extremes. I am adamantly against the people like Tucker Carlson who politicize the pandemic to rile up political tensions and increase their ratings. The political extremes are very loud and vocal. When moderates are vocal everyone gets into a tizzy.  I make no apologies for my bluntness or outspokenness trying to counter what I see as the craziness of todays politics. As a scientist  my mind is boggled that people (on this forum too!)  actually believe crazy stuff like Qanon. It makes me fearful for the future of humanity. I am afraid social media has amplified human insanity.   

 

[4] As for politicization, well, you are one of the few people on this forum who regularly uses “right wing” as a disparaging term. Most people would rather keep politics out and don’t mention the left-right paradigm at all.

 

I should be more clear. By "right-wing" I don't mean politically conservative, I mean the politically extreme right-wing. I do want to keep politics out. But people here regularly post from what I would call the right-wing extreme (Tucker Carlson etc.). I don't see many people citing Mother Jones or Racheal Maddow, if they did I would call them out and use the term "left-wing". Free speech is not something only the political extremes can claim.  

 

The pandemic HAS been politicized. And you see that here. I didn't politicize it. Many folks here are under the spell of gurus and right-wing hucksters like Tucker. There is lots of denial about the many lives saved by the vaccines. I have no illusions that the vaccines are perfect but they have worked well and saved many lives. It doesn't matter. The pandemic is over. Less deadly variants are starting to dominate because of natural selection, as I have mentioned here before it's not in the interest of the virus to be deadly, it's in the viruses interest to spread itself. This winter will be hard on the unvaccinated. Not so hard on those of us who are vaxed.  I absolutely think people should have the choice to decide what do do with their bodies.  The unvaxed made their choice and it's their choice to make. They will have to live with the consequences of that choice.

 

I don't think I will contribute much more here because it seems futile and I am tired of battling misinformation and being misunderstood.

 

Stay safe and have a great holiday everyone.


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#135 geo12the

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 05:44 AM

His point is that the covid vaccines are crap and that their meager benefits are not worth the risks.

 

I encourage you to look at these graphs. They show the vaccines are not crap and the benefits are not meager. They are saving lives.  

Attached Files


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#136 xEva

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 06:20 AM

I encourage you to look at these graphs. They show the vaccines are not crap and the benefits are not meager. They are saving lives.  

 

The problem with your graphs is that they reflect data well before the arrival of omicron  (up to Oct 23). According to the CDC, omicron appeared in the US late Nov and became the dominant variant only last week. The preliminary data from South Africa and UK show that omicron behaves very differently. Let's hope the trend continues and it will be over soon.


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#137 xEva

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 07:09 AM

I encourage you to look at these graphs. They show the vaccines are not crap and the benefits are not meager. They are saving lives.  

 

 

Also, the hump in overall deaths graph, which you provide, largely consists of people over 65.

broken down by age, the graph shows that there is no reason for those under 50 to take the vaccine. 

 

Attached File  CDCbyAge.png   108.53KB   0 downloads


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#138 Hip

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 12:09 PM

His point is that the covid vaccines are crap and that their meager benefits are not worth the risks. Especially for the young.

 
Like most people on this forum who studied girlie subjects like knitting and crochet for their university degree, Mind has got it totally wrong.
 
The AstraZeneca vaccine alone is estimated to have saved 1 million lives from COVID. Anyone who thinks that is a meager benefit, needs to have their brain refitted with one that actually works.  

 

 

hi Hip! thanks for that dislike button. I wonder if you had a chance to listen to this podcast before it was taken down (for copyright). It'd be interesting to hear your feedback. Again, it's Joe Rogan and Peter McCullough.

 
https://www.bitchute...o/CRIQsQrARDak/
 
I have not heard of Dr Peter McCullough, but a quick Google indicates he promotes the drug I'mACretin as an effective COVID treatment, which tells me all I need to know about this antivaxer. I would not waste my time watching him prattle on.

 

 


Edited by Hip, 22 December 2021 - 12:10 PM.

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#139 geo12the

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Posted 23 December 2021 - 04:11 PM

One last thought about the politicization and polarization of COVID that occured to me. If you told me 10 years ago "in 10 years there will be a pandemic and there will be a group that will come out against a vaccine that is effective against it" I would have guessed that the anti vax group might be liberal moms from places like Berkeley and conservatives would be making fun of them. I would not have guessed the opposite would happen. I think it shows how deeply ingrained picking a tribal political team and assimilating their views and sticking by those views at all costs, has become in our society. On some level it's a fusion of social media induced mind control/brain washing and out of control group-think.
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#140 Hip

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Posted 23 December 2021 - 04:26 PM

One last thought about the politicization and polarization of COVID that occured to me. If you told me 10 years ago "in 10 years there will be a pandemic and there will be a group that will come out against a vaccine that is effective against it" I would have guessed that the anti vax group might be liberal moms from places like Berkeley and conservatives would be making fun of them. I would not have guessed the opposite would happen. I think it shows how deeply ingrained picking a tribal political team and assimilating their views and sticking by those views at all costs, has become in our society. On some level it's a fusion of social media induced mind control/brain washing and out of control group-think.

 

That's a good point. A couple of decades ago, it was the liberal lefties and hippies who were the organic food nuts and would not vaccinate their children.

 

Now all of a sudden, it's the right wing populists who are the anti-vaxers. Go figure.


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#141 lancebr

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Posted 23 December 2021 - 09:45 PM

"Some scientists warn that too many shots might actually harm the body’s ability to fight the Covid-19 virus. But Israeli experts say there isn’t time to wait."

 

https://www.nytimes....e-4th-dose.html


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#142 bladedmind

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Posted 24 December 2021 - 08:46 PM

 
Like most people on this forum who studied girlie subjects like knitting and crochet for their university degree, Mind has got it totally wrong.
 
The AstraZeneca vaccine alone is estimated to have saved 1 million lives from COVID. Anyone who thinks that is a meager benefit, needs to have their brain refitted with one that actually works.  

 

....
 
I have not heard of Dr Peter McCullough, but a quick Google indicates he promotes the drug I'mACretin as an effective COVID treatment, which tells me all I need to know about this antivaxer. I would not waste my time watching him prattle on.

 

AD HOMINEM

AD HOMINEM

AD HOMINEM

 

Notice that Hip's comment is entirely void of useful content.  Mind may not want to respond to Hip's childish insult from concern of being seen as exercising Moderator powers on his own behalf.   But I encourage Mind to counsel Hip to curb his extravagance.  This is not how professional scholars conduct themselves.   Hip is the most red-flagged person on this site.  He is an open authoritarian, frequently flouts the ancient rules of constructive argumentation, has little understanding of how science works, and spends most of his time telling the others here why he is superior to them.   Why does he come here, then?   I suggest that he go to a site populated with geniuses like himself, rather than wasting so much time with his inferiors. 


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#143 Hip

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Posted 24 December 2021 - 09:01 PM

Hip is the most red-flagged person on this site.

 
Yes, and those red buttons that people press under posts are ad hominem attacks in their own right. Only they are cowardly ad hominems, by people too shy to express their point of view under their own username. 
 
I complained to moderation some years ago that the red buttons should not be present on Longecity, because they are rude, aggressive, and are in effect ad hominem attacks. But moderation paid no attention.

 

If you want to create greater harmony on Longecity, I suggest getting rid of the red buttons, which are inflammatory. 

 

 

He is an open authoritarian


It only seems that way from the perspective of the inhabitants of this forum, who seem to be rather anti-establishment, almost bordering on anarchism. Longecity seems to attract a rather unusual crowd.

 

In my experience, anti-vaxers tend to be anti-establishment individuals. The vaccine is provided by the establishment, therefore anti-establishment people reject it.

 


Edited by Hip, 24 December 2021 - 09:10 PM.

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#144 xEva

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Posted 25 December 2021 - 03:19 AM

considering how polarized the rest of the world is now, how refreshing it is to be on this forum, where you're freeto express your opinion, regardless  -- and the worse that can happen is a bunch of red buttons. 

 


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#145 bladedmind

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Posted 25 December 2021 - 07:25 AM

It only seems that way from the perspective of the inhabitants of this forum, who seem to be rather anti-establishment, almost bordering on anarchism. Longecity seems to attract a rather unusual crowd.

 

In my experience, anti-vaxers tend to be anti-establishment individuals. The vaccine is provided by the establishment, therefore anti-establishment people reject it.

 

Not only are the members of this forum intellectually inferior, they are socially deviant.  Smelly beatniks who defy the authorities.   Unlike them, I am sane, stable, and normal; a pillar of established truth. 


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#146 Hip

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Posted 25 December 2021 - 12:58 PM

Not only are the members of this forum intellectually inferior, they are socially deviant.  Smelly beatniks who defy the authorities.   Unlike them, I am sane, stable, and normal; a pillar of established truth. 

 

That's right. But do not despair, as the "tough love" program of education deployed on said social deviants will reform their characters, and help develop their scientific knowledge and intelligence.

 

I went through the same baptism of fire myself when I first started posting on health and medical forums, with my comments being scrutinized and criticized by experts with a deep knowledge of medical science. When that happens to you, it becomes and educational experience, and causes you to learn, and to raise your game.

 

 

The beatniks incidentally were a smart and literary bunch. I would not equate today's generation of scientifically uneducated anti-vaxers with the beatniks.  I found Gary Snyder's writings amazing. 


Edited by Hip, 25 December 2021 - 12:59 PM.

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#147 geo12the

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Posted 25 December 2021 - 05:06 PM

 Smelly beatniks who defy the authorities.  

 

Or puppets convinced by their puppet masters that everyone else is a puppet?


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#148 shifter

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Posted 25 December 2021 - 05:54 PM

The vast majority of people on this site know what adaptive immune response means.

 

The COVID injections are not stopping the pandemic in almost any way shape or form. Preliminary data suggest the shots reduce (but do not eliminate) the risk of dying. That is all.

 

When people take routine vaccinations when young or old, those people do not get the disease and they do not transmit the disease.

 

When people take the COVID shots, they still catch the disease, they still spread the disease, they still get sick, they still get hospitalized, and they can still die.

 

That is an awful "vaccine".

 

The data best looked at is how many vaccinated people vs unvaccinated people are ending up in ICU/dead

 

A vaccine doesn't put up some force field that prevents the virus from entering your body. When you get a 'covid test', they swab your nose. This is still surface level on your body. If covid is rampaging through a community and you have been around people who have had it, it's not unsurprising you would find it in peoples noses

 

'Covid test' is actually incorrect. Those tests do not test for covid. They test for the presence of the sars cov-2 virus. 'Covid' is the disease you get from the virus. You dont swab a door handle that's been sneezed on and say it tests positive for covid

 

If I got a vaccine for whooping cough and someone with whooping cough happened to sneeze and cough all over me - take a swab in my nose and you would probably find it. The difference is, I will probably not get sick. The thing is - no one tests over and over for other communicable diseases in vaccinated individuals.

 

When vaccines are talked about achieving 'herd immunity' it is usually in the order of a population having 95% of the entire population covered.I was surprised when countries starting trying to use a metric of 70-80% of people aged 16+ as 'herd immunity'. This still leaves many millions of people in a typical sized country unvaccinated. Imagine if measles only had 70% of people aged 16+ vaccinated..... I guarantee you measles would be an omnipresent threat.

 

The primary job of a vaccine is to prevent getting the disease. The covid vaccines are successful in this - and I'm not talking about a postive test which only tests for the viral presence. I'm talking about actual covid and all of its pitfalls. But the coverage of people vaccinated and being a corona style virus means that transmission is not going to be stopped. Too many millions of non vaccinated adults and almost every child are acting as great incubators for the virus.

 

If you are vaccinated and have the virus in your nose, your chance of serious illness and death is vastly reduced. Real world data backs this up. If vaccine immunity wanes over a few months, that is not the result of an awful vaccine. That's the 'fault' of your immune system. Because whether you get the virus for real or a vaccine, the immune memory is the same.

 

Pandemics over time fizzle out. This one will be no different. We can see with this omicron strain that the virus has adapted to be super contagious but less lethal. It was always expected. Viruses wouldn't spread far if it kills or bedriddens its hosts. If a new variant pops up and it ended up being super lethal - it wouldn't overtake omicron. It couldn't. Everyone who participates in society is going to come into contact with sars eventually and I know I'd rather be vaccinated when that's me. Hopefully for the unvaccinated the variant floating around at their time is mild.

 

One other thing to consider I feel a lot of people dont.

 

Looking at pictures of the lungs from covid survivors - even in cases where they thought they only had a mild infection.... Some of them look like they worked in a mine inhaling silica dust. The level of internal scarring in the body - that's bound to give an increased risk of cancer later on. The scarring goes beyond the lungs too such as the cardiovascular system and the brain. Going forward will we see increased rates of lung cancer, heart attacks or strokes? I have no doubt that the blame will be squared on vaccines though. No one will ever suspect that maybe a nasty disease that ravaged peoples bodies could possibly have anything to do with it

 

America will make a great case study. You've had a sizeable chunk of your population afflicted with the disease. Australia managed to avoid a lot of the misery. However with the delta strain and now omicron it looks like the cat is out of the bag and we are getting lots of cases. But in places like my city where 99% of eligible people have been vaccinated and larger states like NSW having around 93% covered it should provide a good comparison


Edited by shifter, 25 December 2021 - 05:57 PM.

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#149 Mind

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 05:50 PM

If the COVID shots were effective at ending the pandemic, thousands of flights would not be cancelled due to COVID spread among the highly vaccinated industry.

 

94% of South Korean adults are vaccinated, yet the country is going into another hard lockdown....because the COVID injections are not stopping the pandemic.

 

Just like widespread face-covering mandates, the shots are turning out to be a very poor solution for getting life back to normal. There have to be better options.

 

 

 

 

 


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#150 Hip

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Posted 28 December 2021 - 01:38 AM

New study shows that coronavirus remains chronically present in a wide range of organs throughout the body. This is the case even in patients with very mild symptoms.

 

Looks like if you catch it, it may remain in your body for life, probably triggering chronic diseases when you are older.


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